Using Cherry MX Red's after a long time on Green's, such relaxation

[KHAANNN]

I love my Green's, I love the click, the clack

I switched to my Red board, as I'm going to disassemble the Green one for mods

I have to say, I'm strongly considering staying at the Red's, it's smooth, it's silent, it's soft, it doesn't have issues, it doesn't ping ...

I'm just so confused right now :)

(As far the the keyboard desoldering goes, my desoldering skills might make a decision for me, forcing me to use the red keyboard instead)

UPDATE: settled on reds and reds only, too bored of the issues of other switches, reds don't ping, reds are homogenous, reds are peaceful

[Fnzzy]

I also recently switched to reds again. I come from 62g clears so it is not as big of a transition as yours but I must say that I like the feeling a lot more at the moment. And just as you said, it is smooth, it is light and it just flows. Probably picking up some Gateron blacks to make more linear keyboards

[spiceBar]

I second that.

For the last few months I have been looking for switches with a tactile feedback.

Topres switches have it, in a way that no Cherry MX can really emulate.

It's a shame to realize that I was actually looking for the kind of tactile bump you get in a rubber dome keyboard, and that I cannot get it with Cherry MX. Clears are not it, I find them a little bit too scratchy, not much different from browns. I can type on both, I adapt my typing style automatically, but it's not exactly what I was looking for.

And then I spent some time typing on a Poker II with reds and realized that it was actually very comfortable, much more than I recalled.

Now I'm not sure I want a Cherry MX keyboard with tactile feedback. I ordered a White Filco TKL with reds last week from the Keyboard Company, and I'm currently typing on it. I don't have any issue feeling that the keys have registered on reds, so why do I need the tactile feedback, again?

I love the tactile feedback on Topres, but maybe on Cherry MX, as they can't get this right, it's better to have none.

I'm also planning, as I always do, to put some silicone grease into these Cherry MX. It makes them much more silent by slowing down the velocity of the keycap on the upstroke, and it adds a little bit of resistance that comes close to this "weighted piano key feel" on Topres. Yes, it creates an artificial tactile bump on Cherry MX.

Some day I will have to elaborate on this, because I have never seen it discussed.

[KHAANNN]

My red's have the WASD blue o-rings, I think red's are the only MX switches that are optimal for these o-rings, as o-rings mess with tactility and click-action's a lot, they also increase the bottom-out force requirement

Yet:

I couldn't describe how good they feel on the red's, the only sound you hear is the initial touch of the stem to the enclosure, which is very mellow, and in the end, there is the o-ring there to greet you

I just compared it to a weighted piano key press, they are very similar, yet black's would be closer to the piano feel, as even the light piano keys are heavy compared to MX's

---

So you might try o-ringed red/black's too, yet many nice keysets are not compatible with o-rings, so there is that ... :(

(I don't like the idea of lubing the switch itself, yet I also haven't tried it yet, It seems that lube might jump to the metal part and mess the switch/contact)

(Go with the hardest o-ring if you're looking for a piano feeling, these blue o-rings are much softer than a piano bottom-out for example)

---

I just saw your signature, so some of my suggestions might have been repetitions of what you already know :)

[KHAANNN]

To more seriously consider the idea of using the red's, I tested a SP/DSA keycap on the bottom arrow key

And the switch pinged :D

So definitely o-rings and travel-limited keycaps for the reds (or the lube mod's - yet the o-rings solution is much easier, and it seems to work, I'm pretty obsessive about pings, the keyboard definitely doesn't ping with this setup)

Anyway, to sum things up for me, I guess I should be glad that I have a perfect backup keyboard and leave it at that

[spiceBar]

I have rings, all colors, and landing pads (soft and firm ones).

I have found that the firm landing pads (grey ones from EliteKeyboards) are the best for reds. However for some reason, I have put soft ones (black) in my Filco. Wrong choice. I will have to fix that and put firm ones later.

I find that the O-rings, even the thick blue ones from WASD, let too much of the bottoming out shock go into the keyboard's chassis. The shock is then transmitted to the table. The firm landing pads do a slightly better job. I don't mind that the bottoming out feels softer than with O-rings.

The "weighted piano feel" I was talking about is more about the dynamics of the key press than the amount of force you need.

Grease creates a kind of slight drag on the switch stem, which makes it slightly harder to press without increasing the strength of the spring. If you press the switch slowly, there is no difference in weight with a non-greased one. It's when you hit the switch at "typing speed" that you can feel a difference.

When you press on a Cherry MX red switch, it just gives in. Your finger feels the shock with the key, but from then on its very linear.

Once greased, the feeling is different. When your finger hits the keycap there is initial resistance from the switch, which only then seems to give in easily. It gives the impression that the key has some weight that you first have to put in motion before it can continue almost by itself.

This, curiously, mimics the Topre dome collapse better than the tactile bump introduced in the MX browns and clear switches, which just feels scratchy. It also makes the switch much more silent, by eliminating most of the plastic clicks.

You can try this on a switch tester. You need one that allows you to remove the switches, so you can put two red switches side by side. Then you put grease in only one of them. The grease must go on the left and right of the stem, inside the switch housing. Then you can feel the difference between standard and greased reds. And you can also clearly hear the difference. The greased one does not click.

I'm well aware that putting grease inside a switch is risky business. I'm actually expecting some switches to stop working, but I have done that on 5 keyboards, the first one 2 years ago, and I'm still waiting for a single failure.

I cannot recommend the method yet, but it looks like it does not cause any trouble, and I'm fairly certain that in some switches the grease has reached every part of the inside of the switch, including the electrical contacts.

I'm currently using my Filco without grease, because I want to break it in for a while. Then I'll put grease, and replace the black (soft) landing pads with grey ones (firm).

[saturnotaku]

I thought browns were my favorite Cherry switch, but after spending the better part of a day with my new KUL ES-87 with reds, I might have to rethink that notion. This keyboard is smooth, well built, has a dip switch to enable a Mac layout, and even the media keys work on OS X. It has Cherry stabilizers, which I actually prefer to Costar. It's a bit mushier, but there is absolutely no rattle to speak of.

It's actually kind of funny that this thread came up because I had a keyboard with MX greens for a while and liked those switches, too. I had to get rid of the keyboard, though, out of respect for my co-workers.

[KHAANNN]

I would probably use the Green's around people, to assert my dominance :D

The rattle was a big issue for me initially, this was my first mechanical keyboard, I was almost going back to my Logitech K800, but lubing eliminated the issue completely (At least for the time being) (I should try a Cherry stabiliser and see the mushiness for myself sometime)
I'm guessing both Cherry and Costar stabilisers have their sweet spots and optimal mods, Costar's seems easier for me, as lubing is pretty simple

I also tested spiceBar's lubing idea (he greases it seems, I lubed), I also put an o-ring piece inside the stem/pole, instead of o-ringing the keycap, it certainly worked, it's a great alternative for un-o-ringable keycaps

Yet I would prefer non-lubed switches and o-ringed keycaps, the o-ring inside the stem/pole creates an uneven mushiness, yet, It might go well with cherry stabs, eliminate/mask the mushiness of the stabs

Modding switches turned out to be really fun, I don't think I can buy pre-soldered keyboards anymore

[spiceBar]

I would probably use the Green's around people, to assert my dominance

The rattle was a big issue for me initially, this was my first mechanical keyboard, I was almost going back to my Logitech K800, but lubing eliminated the issue completely (At least for the time being) (I should try a Cherry stabiliser and see the mushiness for myself sometime)
I'm guessing both Cherry and Costar stabilisers have their sweet spots and optimal mods, Costar's seems easier for me, as lubing is pretty simple

I also tested spiceBar's lubing idea (he greases it seems, I lubed), I also put an o-ring piece inside the stem/pole, instead of o-ringing the keycap, it certainly worked, it's a great alternative for un-o-ringable keycaps

Yet I would prefer non-lubed switches and o-ringed keycaps, the o-ring inside the stem/pole creates an uneven mushiness, yet, It might go well with cherry stabs, eliminate/mask the mushiness of the stabs

Modding switches turned out to be really fun, I don't think I can buy pre-soldered keyboards anymore

Just to be clear, I don't see putting grease inside the switch as an alternative to O-rings or landing pads. I always put both O-rings AND grease.

Schematically, the O-ring silences the bottoming out, and the grease silence the upstroke (as well as give the switch a more interesting feeling).

The grease actually also reduces the noise of hitting the switch by removing clicks produced by lateral movement of the stem inside the housing. When you brush lightly and laterally the top of the keys on a keyboard silenced this way, you clearly hear the difference.

Naturally, I don't put grease inside clicky switches.

I think the grease gets into the electrical contacts inside the switch, but the contacts must be sharp enough that it does not matter. Continuity is achieved in spite of the grease.

I should open a switch and put grease on the contacts on purpose, just to confirm this.

[tp4tissue]

I've been saying this all along..

you don't FEEEL a thing, when the words are flying out at top speed..

The only time I've ever felt the switch is when I was buying the keyboards, purposefully trying to differentiate between them..



So... If we assume that we're not really consciously going to UTILIZE tactility,  Then we might as well pursue a more PURE experience WITHOUT it whatsoever..




 

[Merranza]

I've briefly owned a browns ans sometimes I have these quirks where I question myself on the lack of tactility... but when I sit in front of my pc and my fingers float on my keys, I know I made the right choice. It's really a wonderful feeling.

[KHAANNN]

I've finally settled on reds and I'm really peaceful after a month of keyboard trials / experiments

These WASD's ping like a ****, the reds are the only switches that are soft enough to not make the keyboard not ping, so it was a must for me to make the switch
(I've filled both of my WASD's with anything I can find with, they still both ping a lot, it's the thin-ish aluminium plate that produces these pings and they are impossible to prevent, unless you decide to really mess with the plate, they are very much like bells of a drum set, they ping and resonate similarly)

For my next keyboard, which will be an 60%/infinity, I also went with Red's although the steel plate probably won't ping

My initial logic turned out to be pretty logical, I always bottom out, so it makes sense to get the softest keys that I can bottom out with, I had to visit all the switches / setups in the spectrum to actually validate this, but there are no more questions in my mind

The reason I'm going to keep on getting Red's is because they don't ping, the high coiled springs doesn't ping like the low coiled springs of black/clear/green's, so for a peaceful typing experience, it's reds from now on for me (otherwise blacks or clears would be candidates too)

I had to attach double blue WASD o-rings to these SP keycaps to silence them similar to OEM keycaps, but it worked pretty well, at least I hope it adequately works for 2 months but when I get the infinity/red's, the trampoline mod would be my only choice for silencing

[spiceBar]

I've finally settled on reds and I'm really peaceful after a month of keyboard trials / experiments

These WASD's ping like a ****, the reds are the only switches that are soft enough to not make the keyboard not ping, so it was a must for me to make the switch
(I've filled both of my WASD's with anything I can find with, they still both ping a lot, it's the thin-ish aluminium plate that produces these pings and they are impossible to prevent, unless you decide to really mess with the plate, they are very much like bells of a drum set, they ping and resonate similarly)

For my next keyboard, which will be an 60%/infinity, I also went with Red's although the steel plate probably won't ping

My initial logic turned out to be pretty logical, I always bottom out, so it makes sense to get the softest keys that I can bottom out with, I had to visit all the switches / setups in the spectrum to actually validate this, but there are no more questions in my mind

The reason I'm going to keep on getting Red's is because they don't ping, the high coiled springs doesn't ping like the low coiled springs of black/clear/green's, so for a peaceful typing experience, it's reds from now on for me (otherwise blacks or clears would be candidates too)

I had to attach double blue WASD o-rings to these SP keycaps to silence them similar to OEM keycaps, but it worked pretty well, at least I hope it adequately works for 2 months but when I get the infinity/red's, the trampoline mod would be my only choice for silencing

(Attachment Link)

I don't understand why the trampoline mod would be your only choice. O-rings will work perfectly on the infinity...

[KHAANNN]

Single o-rings don't work with every keycap, also loose keycaps like the SP ones might slip off the switch/stem slightly, and the stem would bottom out even with the o-rings on

So the trampoline mod is a must, in my opinion

[spiceBar]

Single o-rings don't work with every keycap, also loose keycaps like the SP ones might slip off the switch/stem slightly, and the stem would bottom out even with the o-rings on

So the trampoline mod is a must, in my opinion

OK, I see.

I have indeed a set of tall keycaps in which I would need to insert several O-rings like this. I'm not even sure 3 of them would be enough.

The advantage of the trampoline mod is that you don't even need to install O-rings under your keycaps.

[katushkin]

Linear is murder.

[Novus]

Linear is murder.

feel free to die

[katushkin]

Linear is murder.

feel free to die

An appropriate response would have been:

[falkentyne]

What the hell is that picture?

It looks like the Big Boss Man and the other guy looks a "little" like Ted Dibiase...

[demik]

are you being sarcastic or you've never seen the big lebowski?

[falkentyne]

I just play video games, dude.  I don't any of this stuff you're talking about.
I don't have a television.  I don't even have a freaking cell phone.
I just play games.

[asgeirtj]

It should be noted that lubing springs removes ping

[Tyrosh22]

It should be noted that lubing springs removes ping

Is that true? 

[Oobly]

It should be noted that lubing springs removes ping

Is that true? 

In my experience with MX Clears, yes. Lubing springs prevents them from pinging.

[KHAANNN]

It should be noted that lubing springs removes ping

I have a custom mod where I squeeze the springs on both ends to get them to grab the case and the stem, the stem part is more delicate, it also prevents the ping, yet the plate ping remains, which is unpreventable mostly

Lubing seems ... so dirty to me, also the lubes mostly wear off in time
the high coiled springs don't seem to ping, like red's, blue's, brown's, that's why the red's are a safe choice

I always bottom out, so I really enjoy the red switches, there is a very minor thock sound with each keypress and depress that I enjoy

The only issue of linear switches, in my opinion, is their silence, which leaves you vulnerable to the balancer sounds, but so far lubing takes care of that for me