Heroin assisted treatment..

[tp4tissue]

Your thoughts. ?

Basically, what it is, is they give heroin addicts as much heroin as they want, in a "controlled" environment..  at a managed dose.. (progressively) working down the dose so that they can stay just sober enough to function in society..

But for the most part, the addicts will be on heroin permanently.

it's proven to work in many nations that have variants of the program.. Germany / Switz / Netherlands.

[billnye]

stop tp4 threads

[tp4tissue]

stop tp4 threads

it's a huge issue in america..

due to prescription Opi-oids for pain treatment, (back pain),  everyone's doing heroin now, because it's cheaper than prescription pills.

[azhdar]

why not morphine?
I'd love to take morphine again on of those day, even if 2 months of hospital weren't worth the 3 days of morphine.

[paicrai]

baguette up arse

i completely agree

[azhdar]

baguette up arse

i completely agree

you shouldn't try, it is very likely the baguette will break during the travel towards your stomach, and it might be tricky to get it out.

[tp4tissue]

why not morphine?
I'd love to take morphine again on of those day, even if 2 months of hospital weren't worth the 3 days of morphine.

They're the same as far as "addicts" are concerned.. 

heroin works faster, so it produces potentially larger "euphoric-rush"..

but.....

It's been experimentally determined that equal potency of morphine can produce the same effect..

[tp4tissue]

baguette up arse

i completely agree

you shouldn't try, it is very likely the baguette will break during the travel towards your stomach, and it might be tricky to get it out.

What's crazy is.. that some french people have probably tried this.. hahahahaa

[Novus]

You're a liberal

[SpaceGhost]

stop tp4 threads

What he said ^
That is, at least the Off Topic ones...

Isn't treating addicts with more of their favorite addictive substance a lot like trying to put out a fire with gasoline?

[paicrai]

baguette up arse

i completely agree

you shouldn't try, it is very likely the baguette will break during the travel towards your stomach, and it might be tricky to get it out.

What's crazy is.. that some french people have probably tried this.. hahahahaa

its a long tubular mildly solid think who the **** wouldnt shove it up their rear

[tp4tissue]

stop tp4 threads

What he said ^
That is, at least the Off Topic ones...

Isn't treating addicts with more of their favorite addictive substance a lot like trying to put out a fire with gasoline?

No it is not..

As I mentioned in the OP,  the program WORKS..  it's not a limited study at this point, it has been successful in all nations that have it in some form.

Even in the united states, we've had more success with methadone/suboxone  than we've had with the War-On-Drugs.



Heroin addiction is often misunderstood.. it's nothing like pot or alcohol..


Heroin and other opiod abuse "BREAKS" the rewards circuitry,  the system is forever changed, there is for the most part, NO GOING BACK..

An addict will never go back to feeling normal without the drug..  Even after they weather the detox syndromes.


It's basically like when you overclock a CPU, and you get thermal degradation..  that is what Heroin is with regards to your "happiness control circuit"..

 

[Novus]

stop spouting this baseless nonsense funpee

[tp4tissue]

When we live from day to day, Happiness comes in a slow drip. happiness is a chemical, it can be initiated in many ways, hard work, exercise, sex, gambling, etc,  but most certainly, it is a chemical reaction in the brain..

Heroin and other opiods or opiates, completely shatters the dam, a literal tsunami of HAPPY..


Once this dam is broken, "some part" of it can recover. However, long term heroin use causes the system to so drastically change, that while plasticity is possible in the brain throughout adulthood, it does not occur at a rapid enough rate to return the person to "pre-addict" state.


Ontop of which, the Motivation-guidance system is also forever altered..

The addict, even after quitting, knows precisely how to achieve nirvana.. and it can't be overstressed, Heroin is inherently BLISS..  there's no if and or buts about it..  The abuse of which may be devastating, but principally it is the most satiate/miraculous/happiness a person can ever /feels/..   

You can be a billionaire, you will never achieve the happiness level initiated by heroin..{unless you did heroin}  In fact most billionaires are chasing the same brain chemical response AS heroin users through other means,  but regardless, they will achieve the same level of happiness as the h-addict..

The scale of (momentary) happiness is as thus..

<slavery/poverty>-----<billionaire>-----<heroin addict>

[Novus]

You do realize metaphors aren't actually a substitute for human physiology right?

[tp4tissue]

You do realize metaphors aren't actually a substitute for human physiology right?

No they are not.. but it helps get the point across.. and I believe the ones I've used are in accord.

But when I say  Happiness = Heroin..    That is not an analogy.. They are quite literally equivalent..


When people are asked what is happiness,

Their answer is usually more precisely what MAKES them happy.. The process that Instigates Happy..

HOWEVER,   what precisely IS happiness?   we now know.. Opiates.. Your brain makes them, they are the principal composition of what a person perceives as "reward/ happiness"

[Novus]

Explain in physiological terms what the **** a reward signal is.

[tp4tissue]

Explain in physiological terms what the **** a reward signal is.

I edited my post above with a simple explanation.

Your body produce endorphins.. that is a natural opiate, made by your body..

There are Opiates and Opioids which work the same way in your body.. which is where heroin falls.. but it's not MADE by your body.

and Your body will never make the dose that addicts are using.


the Reward signal, is not 1 signal..  it's more so the reward circuitry, because it not only gives you the endorphins,  it also "writes" memory and create various other neural pathways to LEAD you to the same -behavior- again and again.

[Novus]

Explain in physiological terms what the **** a reward signal is.

I edited my post above with a simple explanation.

Your body produce endorphins.. that is a natural opiate, made by your body..

There are Opiates and Opioids which work the same way in your body.. which is where heroin falls.. but it's not MADE by your body.

and Your body will never make the dose that addicts are using.

Try again.

[tp4tissue]

Explain in physiological terms what the **** a reward signal is.

I edited my post above with a simple explanation.

Your body produce endorphins.. that is a natural opiate, made by your body..

There are Opiates and Opioids which work the same way in your body.. which is where heroin falls.. but it's not MADE by your body.

and Your body will never make the dose that addicts are using.

Try again.

what don't you understand?

You exercise,  this causes pain,  your brain goes, well you did good buddy, all the rice you planted will feed you and your family,and look at all dem' cows.

The brain produces endorphines (an opiate)..

When this happens, you FEEL good..


You solve a math problem, same thing..  Brain says, you did good buddy, you're gonna be famous, all the geeky girls will want to sleep with you..  Here's some happiness..

The brain produces endorphines

When this happens you FEEL good..



You shoot heroin.... Brain goes, hey wait a minute.. OMG.. wtf am I doing exercising and solving math problems.. This is way better and EASIER

[Novus]

Explain in physiological terms what the **** a reward signal is.

I edited my post above with a simple explanation.

Your body produce endorphins.. that is a natural opiate, made by your body..

There are Opiates and Opioids which work the same way in your body.. which is where heroin falls.. but it's not MADE by your body.

and Your body will never make the dose that addicts are using.

Try again.

what don't you understand?

How could I? I said in physiological terms.
This is a cursory explanation of nothing.

[tp4tissue]

Explain in physiological terms what the **** a reward signal is.

I edited my post above with a simple explanation.

Your body produce endorphins.. that is a natural opiate, made by your body..

There are Opiates and Opioids which work the same way in your body.. which is where heroin falls.. but it's not MADE by your body.

and Your body will never make the dose that addicts are using.

Try again.

what don't you understand?

How could I? This is a cursory explanation of nothing.

see edit.

But it can't be stated any simpler than to say   Heroin and any other Opiate/opioid = happiness.

It's what it is..

The faith in God, of which the bible lead you to believe,  turns out..  HEROIN..

[Novus]

Explain in physiological terms what the **** a reward signal is.

I edited my post above with a simple explanation.

Your body produce endorphins.. that is a natural opiate, made by your body..

There are Opiates and Opioids which work the same way in your body.. which is where heroin falls.. but it's not MADE by your body.

and Your body will never make the dose that addicts are using.

Try again.

what don't you understand?

How could I? This is a cursory explanation of nothing.

see edit.

Still not a valid scientific explanation.
More witch doctor than scientist.
Highlight all important mechanisms and trace the pathway.

[ConscienceDrop]

someone needs to give a controlled thread amount to tp4 in a monitored environment

[tp4tissue]

Explain in physiological terms what the **** a reward signal is.

I edited my post above with a simple explanation.

Your body produce endorphins.. that is a natural opiate, made by your body..

There are Opiates and Opioids which work the same way in your body.. which is where heroin falls.. but it's not MADE by your body.

and Your body will never make the dose that addicts are using.

Try again.

what don't you understand?

How could I? This is a cursory explanation of nothing.

see edit.

Still not a valid scientific explanation.
More witch doctor than scientist.
Highlight all important mechanisms and trace the pathway.

/head scratch..



Heroin is an opiate, as in it's partly natural (from the poppy plant), vs an opioid (synthetic).. but they behave the same in the body.

We're in the Mesolimbic pathway.

Once you shoot heroin..  It hits the Ventral tangential area, and the Nucleus accumbens.

Essentially the heroin bonds to receptors in these areas to instigate the release of dopamine.. the feels good neurotransmitter..

But unlike natural endorphins which is regulated by your brain,  you can inject as much heroin as you like, limited only by killing yourself..

So you can achieve Over-the-natural-maximum amount of an "instance" of happiness..




The happiness signal is pretty much ^^ just that..



Now of course these brain areas <limbic> system is also wired into Other parts of the brain for different purposes..   such as to dim the prefrontal cortex, so you don't get up and run, making you think less and go to sleep.. 

[SpaceGhost]

I believe there are a substantial number of former heroin addicts who have gone clean and remained that way.

The extent of permanent brain damage probably depends on how long the individual has been addicted and the amount/potency of drugs consumed, with longtime hardcore addicts nearly (or totally) hopeless to treat by withdrawal even when "halfway" drugs are administered under supervision. Those at the beginning stages of addiction deserve our help -- and are more likely to benefit from it -- far more than those unfortunates at the other end of the scale IMHO.

And giving newcomers to an addictive and destructive habit more of the addictive substance seems just plain wrong.

[Novus]

Explain in physiological terms what the **** a reward signal is.

I edited my post above with a simple explanation.

Your body produce endorphins.. that is a natural opiate, made by your body..

There are Opiates and Opioids which work the same way in your body.. which is where heroin falls.. but it's not MADE by your body.

and Your body will never make the dose that addicts are using.

Try again.

what don't you understand?

How could I? This is a cursory explanation of nothing.

see edit.

Still not a valid scientific explanation.
More witch doctor than scientist.
Highlight all important mechanisms and trace the pathway.

/head scratch..



Heroin is an opiate, as in it's partly natural (from the poppy plant), vs an opioid (synthetic).. but they behave the same in the body.

We're in the Mesolimbic pathway.

Once you shoot heroin..  It hits the Ventral tangential area, and the Nucleus accumbens.

Essentially the heroin bonds to receptors in these areas to instigate the release of dopamine.. the feels good neurotransmitter..

But unlike natural endorphins which is regulated by your brain,  you can inject as much heroin as you like, limited only by killing yourself..

So you can achieve Over-the-natural-maximum amount of an "instance" of happiness..




The happiness signal is pretty much ^^ just that..



Now of course these brain areas <limbic> system is also wired into Other parts of the brain for different purposes..   such as to dim the prefrontal cortex, so you don't get up and run, making you think less and go to sleep..

Lose the metaphors, try harder

[Computer-Lab in Basement]

tp thread is tp thread

[sethk_]

once you start replying to tp4 threads, you never stop, so I guess its like heroin

[tp4tissue]

I believe there are a substantial number of former heroin addicts who have gone clean and remained that way.

The extent of permanent brain damage probably depends on how long the individual has been addicted and the amount/potency of drugs consumed, with longtime hardcore addicts nearly (or totally) hopeless to treat by withdrawal even when "halfway" drugs are administered under supervision. Those at the beginning stages of addiction deserve our help -- and are more likely to benefit from it -- far more than those unfortunates at the other end of the scale IMHO.

And giving newcomers to an addictive and destructive habit more of the addictive substance seems just plain wrong.

I'm not sure where it comes from that they're going to give EVERY addict m0re heroin..

The point is taking back control over the abuse. away from Violent drug dealers.

The - moderate - users that can be saved, have alternative treatment such as complete detox, etc..


But years of attempts have shown that ^^ even this plan doesn't work..

90%  of treated patients on ANY plan , goes back to using..

the ones that DO make it to 2 years of abstinence have a 50% relapse rate..  15% @ 5 years..


Heroin addiction is significantly stronger.. which is why -replacement therapy- was created in the first place..  methadone / suboxone.



The Heroin assisted program has demonstrated that 40-70% of serious-addicts are able to sustain occupation after 4-years of treatment, (slowly stepping down the dose)...

VS ,, how many street users that just turn to crime, then die of disease...



I think , a major public knowledge hurdle is with regard to the "free will of Heroin abusers. They are not weak-willed, their will is literally BROKEN, by the heroin.. and for the most part, that "will" the thing we associate with success and social responsibility, is generally Irreparable in a seasoned heroin user.

[azhdar]

TLDR pls?

[fanpeople]

tldr: Give junkies junk to reduce the negative effects of junk on society.

Tp thread, nothing to see here, move along

[tp4tissue]

tldr: Give junkies junk to reduce the negative effects of junk on society.

Tp thread, nothing to see here, move along

well it's not so simple..

They go through a phase to step down the dose, such that the junkies become 20% junkies, and 80% functional people..

Much of the dangerousness and counterproductive motions of junkie life has to do with the criminalization of their habit, rather than the drug itself.

While it's true that Junkies are not the greatest people or greatest workforce, at least under this program, it's been proven that they can be significantly more productive than an Illegal junky on the streets.

The programs also makes safer the entire ordeal for the public because the injections are monitored and all the equipments are properly disposed.

[Novus]

ReHABILLIES going to recidivism.
Then they're going to tape your daughter.
Morality is going down the drain.
People are going to make love to grass next.

Sheesh young people these days.
You should really watch Nancy grace.
You could just lock them up and keep the streets that much safer.
Moral trepidation is not acceptable. 

In all seriousness though your science is about as real as my moral sermon.
Also where do you even get these numbers? 20 percent junkie 80 percent functional.

What. Give me a break :/