Author Topic: The Multi-Thousand dollar Noble Mistake  (Read 6571 times)

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Offline GL1TCH3D

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The Multi-Thousand dollar Noble Mistake
« on: Tue, 17 May 2016, 00:27:51 »
Just like in keyboards, I was heavily invested in audio a few years back, specifically headphones and other portable audio.

Being a student that travels 1.5hrs each way to school, I was invested in portable headphones and earbuds (I had at some point tried to use some higher end headphones portable that really weren't mean to be used portably).

At the time the "better" portable headphones were the Ultrasone Ed 8 (decent but super overpriced) and the Beyerdynamic T5p (which were trash).

Instead of using those, I had tried using other headphones portably like the HD800 and LCD2. While filling up my music needs more, this was a pain in the ass and I sold them both very quickly. I bounced around through different options but I had always tried to stay even in any hobby for money spent. I sell for what I paid. Customs were no doubt what seemed to be the best option but I was always scared that as a Canadian who has no chance to try universal versions of these custom earbuds, I would buy a pair of customs, end up not liking them and sell them for less than half what I paid right off the bat.

After exhausting all my options with universals (at the time the "high end" ones were the FI-BA-SS which was bad, the IE800 which is technically open and the Shure 535 which had screeching like a dying banshee) I decided maybe it was time to invest some money into customs.

Other universals were slowly coming out including the shure 846 which was too big for my ears and some other lesser known products like the akg k3003, though I disliked everything else from AKG that I had tried at the time so didn't spend the $1200 for that.

I did try the JH Roxanne universals which was a whole **** experience by itself (4 month delay + dead on arrival + the service rep not sending me the replacement before going on vacation for a month). So I sold those and never wanted to really go back to JH for anything.

At this point I've more or less exhausted my options for portable audio besides trying customs and have 2 friends in real life who are in love with their customs. So fine, I went for it. I instantly crossed JH off the list. I know noble had been getting great reviews for a long time on their K10 (the one I had been looking at the most). I kept my eyes out for some used Noble K10 because of the transfer service which would save hundreds off the purchase.

Finally, one came up for a reasonable price. I paid $1050 for the used K10 and instantly went to facebook to talk to Noble about the transfer / remolding service ($250). For a pair of earbuds that I was hoping to keep forever (5+ years), I paid an additional $400 for the custom art to make them a bit more fancy and unique. So far I was in $1700 including the custom art (normally stock $1650). This was in late August 2014.

Right away, my description of guidelines for what I'd like as my custom art was met with disapproval by wizard who complained that it was "too restricting for art" so I decided not to push it and told him he could do what he wanted for the art because I'd been a real fan of his past work (mistake #1). But I was still very excited about it and right away called the audiologist my friends had used for molds.

The audiologist was very friendly (and french) and we talked a bit about earbuds in general and the procedure. Since these were expensive earbuds I took out my phone and started reading out Noble's recommendation for the mold casting process and before I finished the first sentence, as if he were reading it, he told me the remaining recommendations when making the molds. Of course, it's the common set of recommendations for custom IEMs.

I got the molds done and paid the $50 for the molds. The audiologist promised me that the molds are perfect and that he'd even offer to redo them for free if they were not.

I took pictures and sent them to Noble as requested (presumably to look for damage when they arrive at the Noble factory). My excitement increased when Noble sent me the message that the customs were being started and would be ready in about a month (30-40 days).

I was religiously checking the Facebook page for new Wizard art, One day while checking the page I had received the email from Noble telling me that the customs were completed with attachments for the pictures of the completed customs.

This is where mistake #1 comes in, the art was definitely not to my tastes and had no relevancy to the descriptions I had put. It wasn't bad, and definitely unique to everything else he's done, but it was, to me, a bit bland. Though of course, from the FAQ: "Are all wizard designs final? Yes"

So whether I liked it or not, I was stuck with art on my K10 that I wasn't too pleased about but I sucked it up mainly because I was too excited for the K10 in the first place.

I received them in the mail in December and carefully cut the box open without cutting a finger off (from the adrenaline). I plugged them into my AK120 that I had at the time (was stolen the following year...) and played some music. It didn't sound super spectacular but it was leagues ahead of other options I had tried in the past. Though... a small but... the left side had some weirdness in the treble. I was perplexed. I followed the CIEM insertion guide, checked that EQ was off, that panning was off, etc. I contacted Noble through facebook and Brannan told me to flip the wire to see if it helped and to switch the wires on the sides to see if anything but every single combination had a weirdness in the treble. Brannan insisted that it was my ears or some defect in the cable because every pair was tested before being shipped but said I could send them in (at my cost mind you) for them to check.

I spent the $20 for shipping and was informed that there was indeed a defect which was fixed. And that it would cost $40 to ship them back to me. I brought up some discontent and they shipped them back to me.

After a day or two I noticed some pain from prolonged use (about an hour) and sent them back for refits. Keeping in mind it's another $20 to ship and 1 month wait time for refits. I got them back and this time the side that was adjusted was not firing properly into my eardrum and was causing that side to sound more muted. Now, I know I clean my ears regularly and have never had an imbalance issue from headphones in the past. Furthermore if I pushed them in a certain way and held them at an angle I would hear them clearly. Inquiring about another refit, they told me that I should take deeper molds this time so they can get a better idea.

The audiologist was not too happy to hear me coming back about the molds and I asked to get that free set done even though he probably said it more as a "these are so good you shouldn't need another set" type of statement. He also seemed a bit insulted that Noble felt the original molds weren't good enough and this time took molds to about 1cm away from the eardrums this time. Like last time, I took pictures and sent them in.

They told me they received the molds and were beginning work on remaking them and would have to wait again.

I didn't mind, I'd rather have them fit perfectly considering how much money I spent. This time they came in (summer 2015) right before leaving on a family vacation to Miami. I brought them on the plane and dang, the earbuds were extremely tight with one side being so much so that the pulsing in my ear from the overly large CIEM was just overriding my musical experience. I used them while in Miami and some days it didn't feel as bad while I was there (presumably some slight changes in climate affecting the fit) bit still too tight.

On my arrival back in Canada I sent them to Noble for refits. I received them back later fitting slightly better but a touch too large which was causing it to pop out of the seal in my ear forcing me to readjust the CIEM in my ear every 15 or so minutes. I considered keeping them like this instead of sending them back, paying more in shipping ($60 each refit) and maybe not getting a better result. Otherwise they sounded great (and paired better with the AK240 that I had at this point) and fit pretty well.

But at this price and this much invested, why settle?

I contacted Noble and they said they'd take them in for another refit. While packing it up, one of the earbuds slipped out of the loose connector and because there's no locking mechanism, that earbud fell and hit the tabletop. A crack developed. I still shipped them back in to Noble and waited to hear about the damage. I was informed that it would cost $250 to repair them and would require a new pair of molds because the crack would likely spread and just render them completely useless if I did nothing. I complained and argued. I had the K10 in my possession less than a month up until this point (September / Oct 2015) and already spent over $2000 for these. After some time Noble conceded and offered the repair for free but I'd still need a new set of molds. I was getting pretty annoyed at the constant refits required for these earbuds and the cost of the refits every time. Since they already agreed to remold them, why not convert them to universals where I can just use the best fitting tips and swap them out as I want?

I was given a resounding No. Noble wanted to continue with the customs. I was right in the middle of the school semester at this point and between work, travelling and school I had no time to get molds done on the audiologist's schedule.

I put it off until recently because of school and work. In march I went to the audiologist during a lull in the semester and was told that I had some inflammation and it would be a bad idea to take the molds at that time for obvious reasons. I took a hearing test though while there (he was really pitying me at this point and did it for free) and there were no "defects" detected in my hearing (considering I haven't heard imbalance in headphones I was pretty sure of this point but wanted to just have a test done for my peace of mind).

In the meantime I again tried to get Noble to convert my custom wizard art IEMs to universals. Instead, I was told that I could take the Noble K10U, the off-the-shelf universals, instead of my customs at this point. I inquired about the fees for the Wizard art since they didn't want to convert that to a universal (others have mentioned that Noble seems to be refusing custom wizard art on the universal K10s, even though they had done it for other universal models). "I can have a unit sent out to the address in Canada, no problem, and the Wizard Design fee will be applied towards the universal. Outstanding balance as I have it is $1000 even, shall I send you an invoice?"

Yes, an ADDITIONAL $1000. Which if paid would bring my total to over $3000 for the universal, stock K10U and the additional payment requested would be shy of a used K10U in the $1200-1300 region.

I argued for several days over email until Noble "conceded" and offered to send me the K10U for "free" to settle the argument. I accepted, seeing this as probably the most I'd get at this point. However I am over a year and a half into this investment with over $2000 invested only to end up with a new pair of K10U at MSRP $1650.

When asked about my K10s, I have always, will now, and will always in the future say that they were a mistake.


TL;DR (I don't blame you for skipping all of that but I wanted a full account for what happened so I could send it to people asking)
Bought very expensive earbuds custom fit for my ears. They never fit. Company charged a lot total and never refunded me the costs for the custom fittings.
« Last Edit: Tue, 17 May 2016, 00:33:52 by GL1TCH3D »

Offline stoic-lemon

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Re: The Multi-Thousand dollar Noble Mistake
« Reply #1 on: Tue, 17 May 2016, 00:51:07 »
Wow. That is a pretty terrible experience. My sympathies.

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: The Multi-Thousand dollar Noble Mistake
« Reply #2 on: Tue, 17 May 2016, 02:36:25 »
audio gear is a huge mistake because of how hard it is to quantify --a difference-- on the user end.


For example..   WHAT IF, your ear canal has a natural shape which is detrimental to sound fidelity in a certain frequency range..  You could never know this,  and the customs would be completely wrong for you. or iems could be wrong for you in general..

By what metric could you find this out.. you couldn't...


This is where the headgear industry makes bank,  They sell you an unverifiable PROMISE..



Offline suicidal_orange

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Re: The Multi-Thousand dollar Noble Mistake
« Reply #3 on: Tue, 17 May 2016, 02:58:18 »
I guessed what this would be from the title, not good at all.  Customs have always looked tempting but when they go wrong the horror stories of endless refits and waiting are so bad that I've never got close to buying and you've ensured that remains the case for at least another year, so thanks for that.

I hope the universals are comfortable and to your taste so you can get back to enjoying music.
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Offline Bevo

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Re: The Multi-Thousand dollar Noble Mistake
« Reply #4 on: Tue, 17 May 2016, 03:01:51 »
So you dropped and cracked the earbud and argued until they fixed it for free?

Offline SBJ

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Re: The Multi-Thousand dollar Noble Mistake
« Reply #5 on: Tue, 17 May 2016, 03:52:52 »
That's terrible man (read the whole thing)
You would think at that price you'd get the proper attitude from the person selling you the goods. The fact that you got treated badly would be enough for me to make a stink.
That's a whole hell of a lot of money, damn.
I hope the ones you have now are at least somewhat satisfactory.

Offline GL1TCH3D

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Re: The Multi-Thousand dollar Noble Mistake
« Reply #6 on: Tue, 17 May 2016, 07:25:23 »
I guessed what this would be from the title, not good at all.  Customs have always looked tempting but when they go wrong the horror stories of endless refits and waiting are so bad that I've never got close to buying and you've ensured that remains the case for at least another year, so thanks for that.

I hope the universals are comfortable and to your taste so you can get back to enjoying music.

I had been worried about that too. It happens to the odd person here and there where it just never works out for either CIEMs or with a specific company. Since it takes a long time and it's costly that was the main secondary factor after the massive loss of investment if reselling.



So you dropped and cracked the earbud and argued until they fixed it for free?

They were A) using a cheap non-locking connector and B) the connector had become worn and loose
« Last Edit: Tue, 17 May 2016, 07:31:23 by GL1TCH3D »

Offline GenKaan

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Re: The Multi-Thousand dollar Noble Mistake
« Reply #7 on: Tue, 17 May 2016, 08:20:37 »
Haha what a hot mess. Im using a pair of Sennheiser CX300-II even if they have started to break :3
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Offline WNovizar

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Re: The Multi-Thousand dollar Noble Mistake
« Reply #8 on: Tue, 17 May 2016, 09:21:09 »
Hugs his hifiman re0. Screw massdrop and their re00
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Offline tp4tissue

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Re: The Multi-Thousand dollar Noble Mistake
« Reply #9 on: Tue, 17 May 2016, 15:13:11 »
Haha what a hot mess. Im using a pair of Sennheiser CX300-II even if they have started to break :3

Tp4 also uses cx300 -ii

they are the best earbuds ever..

So neutral, so cheap, so not-very-german...