Author Topic: Logitech G410 (Romer-G tenkeyless) for professional writing? (+ Alternatives)  (Read 6868 times)

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Offline NewbieOneKenobi

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Background:

I'm a translator, so I probably spend more time actually typing than the average writer. So far I've used a tenkeyless Filco with blues, handed down an old Cherry with blacks to my pal, damaged an old Cherry with vintage browns while trying to fix the unacceptably heavy space bar (green switch IIRC), and have had only marginal contact with buckling springs (1 '93 Lexmark M) and old Alps (Dell AT keyboards from around 1993-1998, with and without windows keys). While more satisfying than rubber domes, none of the switches have felt exactly right.

Blues are nice and very light without bottoming out, but then I can't type as fast as when I don't need to worry about not bottoming out. The bottoming out sensation is very punitive. So is the feel of using delete or backspace to correct errors on the fly. Ideally, I would not be experiencing this but working on a more forgiving keyboard. And speed is very important. I usually type around 80-90 wpm, probably 100-110 during flow periods when not paying attention, and sometimes I feel limited by the keyboard, even though I know other people can type faster on the same hardware, this is just the subjective problem of how fast I can type on a given keyboard. I've read browns have enabled people to type faster than they did before, and reds possibly even faster due to the absence of tactile feedback. Which is something I like but wouldn't die for, and something I'd give up in a heartbeat if it allowed me to type faster and/or with less unnecessary strain.

To be fair, I'm a bit of a lousy typist, so I can't avoid bottoming out, nor can I avoid needing to correct errors on the fly (by either not making any or leaving corrections for later).

The worst thing I've ever experienced with mechanical keyboards has been the heavy space in old vintage Cherry browns (G80 or something, Cherry-made, with trackball or touchpad) — it's probably supposed to help people's typing rhythm, but it totally doesn't work with mine. It needlessly stops me and slows me down, and the difference in actuation force is the most awful thing, ever. Any keyboard with this type of issue is automatically off my list, it just won't work. Which is why I'm cautious with browns by default.

As a child, I probably grew up using a Model F, but I'm not sure. It was similar to Model M but different, producing more fluid, crisp sensations in fingers, sort of as if it had metal scissors or a metal pendulum inside, hard to describe. It also felt a little bit more complicated than a Model M feels to me right now (which is not very crisp in comparison). I did have an XT, so it might as well have been a real model F, I dunno; I bought something with the same switch as old Model F's to check, but it wasn't the same feel as my childhood keyboard. As an older teenager and later, I simply used tall rubber domes all the way till switching to x-scissors in 2008 and to this Filco (tenkeyless blue) in 2009 or 2010 (purchased from a GeekHacker).

Switch: I'd like something that's forgiving and something that you can type fast on, which is not as expensive as Topre. Whether or not tactile.
Keycaps: I don't have any preference other than non-distracting and not gaudy. Font not distracting. It has to be easy on very, very tired eyes.
Form-factor:Doesn't have to be super-stylish, but preferably not gaudy, not distracting, above all practical.
Size: Compact tenkeyless preferred. I have almost no use for the numerical section any more, and I like the way I can conveniently, symmetrically, put a tenkeyless keyboard right in the centre of a large, empty desk (let alone a cluttered one). I utterly love the way I can have my mouse close by also. It would be hard to give it up, this convenience and comfort I've come to appreciate so much over the last couple of years. Still, I can appreciate the benefits of a full-sized keyboard too, even though it's the less preferable choice.
Wrist support: Could be welcome (and hard plastic could be better than cushion).
Lighting, extra keys, USB, gadgetry, macros etc.: Preferably none.
Gaming vs work: 100% work, 100% typing.

So, right now I'm looking at the following keyboards:

Romer G (Logitech)
The titular Logitech G410 (Romer-G tenkeyless) (expensive compared to other boards)
I'm not interested in full-sized Romer-G boards with additional programmable keys.
The thing looks gaudy to me. I fear the font on the keys, among other things, may prove too distracting when I just want to work, and too annoying when I have long and hard hours to put in translating boring long government contracts or court rulings or stuff like that, and it just doesn't feel right. Still, I could give it a try. The switch is supposed to be faster than Cherry, which could be good.

Browns:

CMStorm QuickFire RAPID-I Cherry MX Brown (SGK-4040-GKCM1-US) (not that expensive, nice no-nonsense tenkeyless)
CMStorm Trigger-z with Cherry MX Brown (SGK-6010-GKCM1) (costs 20% more than tenkeyless, has wrist support, hopefully white light is available, and I don't like programmable keys on the left edge)
CMStorm QuickFire XT Cherry MX Brown (SGK-4030-GKCM1-UI) (very good price right now, totally inexpensive, normal-layout, solid looking regular keyboard without a single nonsense key and without any gaudy lights, which is priceless; costs like half the price of a similar-looking Logitech Orion Brown or Fnatic Gear Rush or Corsair Strafe)

Reds:

Ozone Strike Pro US Cherry MX Red (OZONESTRIKEPROUS) (hard on the eyes, but people say it's well-made compared to Corsairs, for example)
Qpad MK 50 Pro Gaming Mechanical Keyboard Cherry MX Red (GKLQPMK50) (full-sized + wrist rest + profiled but at the same time the least expensive of these keyboards, for a very, very good price from a reliable shop)
Corsairs — not listing all of the different ones separately, they're all expensive, some with wrist rests, some without, most of them black, some with gaudy lights, some not, some red+black, whatever
Logitech G610
Fnatic Gear Rush UK (I can't really justify the price premium other than sheer indulgence, but there may be cheaper sellers; this is a gaming board, but unlike almost all other boards specifically designated as gaming boards, this one has a keycap font that neither annoys nor distracts me, it's also very pleasantly conservative in terms of form factor, while combining a nice gaming look with it, plus it has wrist support)

Roccat RYOS TK PRO (ROC-12-651-BN) (expensive for its range, but I like the look, and there's wrist support, which is important to me; I hate the volume-regulation crap under the space bar, though; knowing me, it could come in the way a bit)

Also a range of Tesoro/Tizona/whatever keyboards may be available, either full-sized or tenkeyless, full-black elegant form factor or gaudy purple and overall cheap gaming look, for a very low price usually. Some of them are Kailh, but there seem to be ones with Cherry switches too, unless the sellers get it wrong and confuse Kailh with real Cherry, which is always a possibility.

Of course, there will be some overlap between reds and browns. My selection was guided by availability here in Poland. It doesn't make sense to pay fifty bucks just to get that one keyboard model that costs 100-200 on its own. I might as well simply buy a product from a higher range that's available without noticeable shipment costs. Some of the keyboards I listed are available with free next-day delivery.

Unfortunately, I have zero chance of trying before buying, so I'm prepared to go for conservative, reliable choices. Some vendors will allow me to replace the keyboard simply because I prefer something else, though they wouldn't look too kindly on more than 1–2 replacements, I guess (changing from browns to reds and back would be acceptable, but cycling through 5 different keyboards not so).

Thanks.
« Last Edit: Thu, 12 May 2016, 13:14:03 by NewbieOneKenobi »

Offline romevi

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Get Topre.

Switch: I'd like something that's forgiving and something that you can type fast on, which is not as expensive as Topre. Whether or not tactile.

Still get Topre.

Offline quasistellar

  • Posts: 180
I mean, if you're going up to the $150 range with those boards, at least give the Novatouch a glance. It's the least expensive TKL option and it's noisy, but it has the nice topre feel. When I say noisy, I mean noisy for topre, but it's still not as loud as any undampened MX or Alps variants.

You might also consider a keyboard with Matias linear or quiet click switches. You can find them in Matias brand keyboards or KBP brand keyboards. They have dampening on the downstroke and don't feel harsh when bottomed out. There are stenographers that use machines with an even lighter variant of Matias linear, so I'm sure they're fine for fast typing.

I should add that I own a G410 and love it, but I prefer my modded Novatouch for work and actual typing. The G410 does have a dampened downstroke so bottoming out feels good on it. The tactile bump is very small and right at the top of he stroke. If the 410 is too gaudy they do make the G810. It's full sized, but because if the moronically large bezel on the sides of the 410, it's not actually much wider.
« Last Edit: Thu, 12 May 2016, 14:42:45 by quasistellar »

Offline klennkellon

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I mean, if you're going up to the $150 range with those boards, at least give the Novatouch a glance. It's the least expensive TKL option and it's noisy, but it has the nice topre feel. When I say noisy, I mean noisy for topre, but it's still not as loud as any undampened MX or Alps variants.

You might also consider a keyboard with Matias linear or quiet click switches. You can find them in Matias brand keyboards or KBP brand keyboards. They have dampening on the downstroke and don't feel harsh when bottomed out. There are stenographers that use machines with an even lighter variant of Matias linear, so I'm sure they're fine for fast typing.

I should add that I own a G410 and love it, but I prefer my modded Novatouch for work and actual typing. The G410 does have a dampened downstroke so bottoming out feels good on it. The tactile bump is very small and right at the top of he stroke. If the 410 is too gaudy they do make the G810. It's full sized, but because if the moronically large bezel on the sides of the 410, it's not actually much wider.


Matias are great, but an even better option is something like those compact Apple keyboards which is basically a 60% + a Numpad, they come with orange ALPS which are some of the nicest tactile Alps.

Offline NewbieOneKenobi

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Get Topre.

Switch: I'd like something that's forgiving and something that you can type fast on, which is not as expensive as Topre. Whether or not tactile.

Still get Topre.

I'll probably go with Topre in the long run, but I wonder if it isn't worthwhile to get the G410 in the meanwhile for 40% of the price, or one of the reds or browns for 25% of the price, to replace my blue Filco with something lighter. What do you guys think?

I mean, if you're going up to the $150 range with those boards, at least give the Novatouch a glance. It's the least expensive TKL option and it's noisy, but it has the nice topre feel. When I say noisy, I mean noisy for topre, but it's still not as loud as any undampened MX or Alps variants.

Thank you, that keyboard seems to have escaped my attention, even though it looks exactly like I like, which is also exactly like the layout of my current keyboard, which is a plus. It has good reviews, and it's available here for ~$153 in local currency (like you said), with practically free fast shipment, so what's not to like. The capacitive kinda hybrid thing should probably produce a vaguely similar feel to Model F, shouldn't it?

Also, I don't mind the noise, I thrive on it and revel in it. I find all manner of anti-social pleasure in it. I… ugh, never mind.  ;D :))

Quote
You might also consider a keyboard with Matias linear or quiet click switches. You can find them in Matias brand keyboards or KBP brand keyboards. They have dampening on the downstroke and don't feel harsh when bottomed out. There are stenographers that use machines with an even lighter variant of Matias linear, so I'm sure they're fine for fast typing.

They look promising, and I'm mildly fascinated by this — it isn't really 'natural', but it's split in almost a smart way (I tend to use Y with my left fingers), has a short space (important because of diacriticals with R-ALT) and nice-looking wrist rest, and even the extra keys are actually not useless. Might as well be my next keyboard, eventually, if I don't go for Topre. Would Matias linear or soft tactile be far below Topre for typing purposes?

For my carpal tunnels and stress injuries, splitting seems to be just what I need, though I don't want to get a rubber dome just for it; this could be the answer. In terms of switches, what I'm after would probably be similar to the feel of MX blues when you don't bottom out, but without making it so hard to avoid bottoming out and without punishing you so hard for it (which feels like typing on 200g, and preferably crisper, like Model F or vintage MX browns, or… Model M with keycaps removed, which I actually used at some point. I think Topre would be close, though I've no idea what Matias feels like.

I'm not one for typing on hard linears like Cherry blacks (too heavy for my pained finger joints, otherwise could be great), but I might prefer soft linear switches to soft tactile switches simply because of speed gain from removing the pause generated by feedback. This is the reason I'm putting so much hope in reds, if this makes sense.

Quote
I should add that I own a G410 and love it, but I prefer my modded Novatouch for work and actual typing. The G410 does have a dampened downstroke so bottoming out feels good on it. The tactile bump is very small and right at the top of he stroke. If the 410 is too gaudy they do make the G810. It's full sized, but because if the moronically large bezel on the sides of the 410, it's not actually much wider.

I was dumb enough to fail to realize those photos were with lighting on, a rainbow sort of setup. With no light it looks quite all right. I don't even mind the bezel so much… I might even like it, as I used to use bezels for wrist support when not typing at my fastest.
« Last Edit: Thu, 12 May 2016, 16:00:43 by NewbieOneKenobi »


Offline elessil

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Do not buy that crappy G410 keyboard. Build quality is so bad (keycaps/plate). When you press arrow keys all keys on right side moves... Buy any other keyboard, skip that 1. G910 on the other hand has very good build quality. Idk why logitech did so bad on TKL version.

Offline SpAmRaY

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Either get an FC750R with reds and thick pbt caps or just get a variable realforce tkl and be done.

There's no reason to waste money on substandard keyboards if you are using it as described.

You might also consider putting some sort of dampening pad under whatever keyboard you buy.

Offline need

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I recently got a $100 brand new novatouch, and it really is a typists dream, no joke it really is.

It's activation point is higher than cherry and alps.
It's light with no mechanical contact due to being capacitive, it's the might be the smoothest switch out there due to its tactility is provided by the rubber done instead of metal leafs.
45g is light and theres a lot of bottoming out, but it feels cushiony due to the rubber done that your hitting.

All these contribut to it being one of the fastest switch and comfortable switch out there.
My first impression for it is it being so sensitive, that causes a lot of typos at first. (It's weird but I feel like I have to catch up with its speed.) Time is needed for having a sense of control. It's godly after that.

EDIT: stock switches with the caps rattles a lot, but after a tedious process of installing DIY silencing pads, the sound is godly. Sound recorded by SpiceBar:
http://www.chesstiger.com/images/keyboards/Novatouch_fully_silenced.wav
For material just use : LD45 POLYETHYLENE FOAM SHEET
« Last Edit: Fri, 13 May 2016, 08:32:25 by need »

Offline romevi

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I recently got a $100 brand new novatouch, and it really is a typists dream, no joke it really is.

It's activation point is higher than cherry and alps.
It's light with no mechanical contact due to being capacitive, it's the might be the smoothest switch out there due to its tactility is provided by the rubber done instead of metal leafs.
45g is light and theres a lot of bottoming out, but it feels cushiony due to the rubber done that your hitting.

All these contribut to it being one of the fastest switch and comfortable switch out there.
My first impression for it is it being so sensitive, that causes a lot of typos at first. (It's weird but I feel like I have to catch up with its speed.) Time is needed for having a sense of control. It's godly after that.

EDIT: stock switches with the caps rattles a lot, but after a tedious process of installing DIY silencing pads, the sound is godly. Sound recorded by SpiceBar:
http://www.chesstiger.com/images/keyboards/Novatouch_fully_silenced.wav
For material just use : LD45 POLYETHYLENE FOAM SHEET

Imagine what Topre 55g is like.  ;)

Offline supamesican

  • Posts: 222


I'll probably go with Topre in the long run, but I wonder if it isn't worthwhile to get the G410 in the meanwhile for 40% of the price, or one of the reds or browns for 25% of the price, to replace my blue Filco with something lighter. What do you guys think?

...

The capacitive kinda hybrid thing should probably produce a vaguely similar feel to Model F, shouldn't it?



Isn't the g410 about $120?  the topre typeheaven is $150 ish http://www.amazon.com/Topre-Type-Heaven-104-key-Keyboard/dp/B00DGJALYW. Its not hhkb but still better than browns or the g410.

and not really, my topre feels so different from buckling springs
« Last Edit: Fri, 13 May 2016, 12:14:27 by supamesican »

Offline SpAmRaY

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I'll probably go with Topre in the long run, but I wonder if it isn't worthwhile to get the G410 in the meanwhile for 40% of the price, or one of the reds or browns for 25% of the price, to replace my blue Filco with something lighter. What do you guys think?



Isn't the g410 about $120?  the topre typeheaven is $150 ish http://www.amazon.com/Topre-Type-Heaven-104-key-Keyboard/dp/B00DGJALYW. Its not hhkb but still better than browns or the g410.
The type heaven is a good board and can often be found much cheaper than $150.

 But the OP seemed to prefer tkl vs full size.

Offline NewbieOneKenobi

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Can't order from the States really — shipment fees from $50 up, 23% VAT for me to pay on arrival, and customs fees. Inside the EU there is no added VAT on crossing the border and no customs fees, but shipment costs are still quite significant. I've justed order the CM Novatouch, arriving tomorrow.

I love my blue Majestouch 1, but it's high time I got something lighter, I guess. The Filco feels a bit too light and a bit too hard at the same time. This is all in terms of subjective sensation, but the sensation icludes occasional pangs of physical pain.

Offline chuckdee

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Size: Compact tenkeyless preferred. I have almost no use for the numerical section any more, and I like the way I can conveniently, symmetrically, put a tenkeyless keyboard right in the centre of a large, empty desk (let alone a cluttered one). I utterly love the way I can have my mouse close by also. It would be hard to give it up, this convenience and comfort I've come to appreciate so much over the last couple of years. Still, I can appreciate the benefits of a full-sized keyboard too, even though it's the less preferable choice.

I'm a writer/coder.  I write a lot more as I've moved upwards in position.  And I'm an aspiring writer, so I write a lot for that also.  Just to give you a background before I go into the next bit.

I've actually gone down more than you're looking at, and wanted to suggest that.  I've found with 60%/40% I'm more inclined to write the way you're meant to, i.e. write, then revise.  Not sure if the use case is the same for translations, but I know it makes me more productive, and less likely to do lazy writing, i.e not worry about quality of typing, knowing I can just edit easily inline.  It's also improved my typing quality because of that reason, and the mouse is even closer so I don't have to move much at all to get to it when I need to.  Also, the use of layers and shortcuts has made me have combinations that I chord in order to do things that I would have with the mouse.

Just a thought more than a recommendation that I thought I'd make.

Offline QuincyJones

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The more you type, the more wrist strain you're eventually going to get - trust me on that. I recommend the Kinesis Advantage. It's ugly as sin, looks stupidly weird. But your fingers will be rolling around the domes faster than you can say 'wow', has a nice satisfying tactile feel, and you'll learn to use your thumbs like you never knew you could
SENT FROM MY TRKA-100-ULTRA-PRO-1R WITH FLASHY MULTI-COLOURED LEDS FOR MEGA ULTRA COOLNESS
(please like me)

       

Offline Polymer

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Variable Realforce...

If you're typing a lot...just do it..you won't look back.

If you hen peck when you type or have a funky 2/3 finger typing thing going on then you probably won't..but if you use relatively "proper" form you'll love it..

Offline supamesican

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Maybe a matias tkl would be a decent option too

Offline Niomosy

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I recently got a $100 brand new novatouch, and it really is a typists dream, no joke it really is.

It's activation point is higher than cherry and alps.
It's light with no mechanical contact due to being capacitive, it's the might be the smoothest switch out there due to its tactility is provided by the rubber done instead of metal leafs.
45g is light and theres a lot of bottoming out, but it feels cushiony due to the rubber done that your hitting.

All these contribut to it being one of the fastest switch and comfortable switch out there.
My first impression for it is it being so sensitive, that causes a lot of typos at first. (It's weird but I feel like I have to catch up with its speed.) Time is needed for having a sense of control. It's godly after that.

EDIT: stock switches with the caps rattles a lot, but after a tedious process of installing DIY silencing pads, the sound is godly. Sound recorded by SpiceBar:
http://www.chesstiger.com/images/keyboards/Novatouch_fully_silenced.wav
For material just use : LD45 POLYETHYLENE FOAM SHEET

Imagine what Topre 55g is like.  ;)

In need of losing some weight?

Offline romevi

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  • Posts: 8945
  • Location: The Windy City
I recently got a $100 brand new novatouch, and it really is a typists dream, no joke it really is.

It's activation point is higher than cherry and alps.
It's light with no mechanical contact due to being capacitive, it's the might be the smoothest switch out there due to its tactility is provided by the rubber done instead of metal leafs.
45g is light and theres a lot of bottoming out, but it feels cushiony due to the rubber done that your hitting.

All these contribut to it being one of the fastest switch and comfortable switch out there.
My first impression for it is it being so sensitive, that causes a lot of typos at first. (It's weird but I feel like I have to catch up with its speed.) Time is needed for having a sense of control. It's godly after that.

EDIT: stock switches with the caps rattles a lot, but after a tedious process of installing DIY silencing pads, the sound is godly. Sound recorded by SpiceBar:
http://www.chesstiger.com/images/keyboards/Novatouch_fully_silenced.wav
For material just use : LD45 POLYETHYLENE FOAM SHEET

Imagine what Topre 55g is like.  ;)

In need of losing some weight?

No.

Offline Niomosy

  • Posts: 1239
I recently got a $100 brand new novatouch, and it really is a typists dream, no joke it really is.

It's activation point is higher than cherry and alps.
It's light with no mechanical contact due to being capacitive, it's the might be the smoothest switch out there due to its tactility is provided by the rubber done instead of metal leafs.
45g is light and theres a lot of bottoming out, but it feels cushiony due to the rubber done that your hitting.

All these contribut to it being one of the fastest switch and comfortable switch out there.
My first impression for it is it being so sensitive, that causes a lot of typos at first. (It's weird but I feel like I have to catch up with its speed.) Time is needed for having a sense of control. It's godly after that.

EDIT: stock switches with the caps rattles a lot, but after a tedious process of installing DIY silencing pads, the sound is godly. Sound recorded by SpiceBar:
http://www.chesstiger.com/images/keyboards/Novatouch_fully_silenced.wav
For material just use : LD45 POLYETHYLENE FOAM SHEET

Imagine what Topre 55g is like.  ;)

In need of losing some weight?

No.

My wrists disagree.  Lighter is easier on my wrists.

Offline NewbieOneKenobi

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The Novatouch has arrived. It really does feel like an expensive rubber dome. I'm not sure I would be able to conclusively identify the switch as something else than rubber dome without foreknowledge.

It reminds me of a DYI project from several years ago when I put IBM springs between the dome and the keycap of an old IBM SK8820 rubber dome.

One part of me rejoices to welcome back the springy softness of nice rubber domes, another misses the rubber-free crispness of Cherry. That part makes me think that MX reds just might be the ideal switch for me. Or browns, as long as they didn't have an overheavy spacebar.

The spacebar on this unit also is heavier than the other keys, which I don't like, but the difference feels only remotely comparable to 70g vs 45g.

Next, I'm having a hunch (still typing on the Filco) that fast typing may be more comfortable than pressing individual keys or typing slowly — which would be in line with Topre's usual description as a switch for writers.

The packaging was very high-end. It's delusion and while wood-like carton board is not massively more expensive to produce than ordinary carton in absolute numbers, it conveys the right idea. I wish I was able to introduce a high-end feel to my translations so easily, I could raise more money for keyboards that way. :D The board itself is nicely made, though I'm inclined to compare it a bit less than favourably to the Filco — probably because I'm biased. Actually… nope, the plastic on the Filco just might be better. I mean the casing, not the caps. The caps on the Novatouch not only look retro, they actually look old, between the design and the yellowish colour. They feel — and look — rough compared to those on the Filco. Finally, the beast is really tall. Compared to it, the Filco could be justly termed a low-profile board. A memory-foam wristrest may become necessary.

Lighter is easier on my wrists.

In the most direct sense, yes. But in some cases insufficient resistance causes you to apply more strength than is necessary and hence tire more easily. Kinda like typing on a table. Or it may be easier on the wrists but harder on the fingers, or just simply easier on one part of your muscles but harder on another (which has no stress injuries or other similar problems yet, due to short exposure).


Offline HeeCh2ei

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The spacebar on this unit also is heavier than the other keys, which I don't like, but the difference feels only remotely comparable to 70g vs 45g.
There should be a spring under the spacebar.
Cherry is the Maker, Topre is the God
   
FC660C             FC750R (reds)     FC750R (blues)

Offline NewbieOneKenobi

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Okay, so here are my first impressions:

Typing would be much smoother and overall nicer if I knew how to light-tap on this switch; unfortunately, I don't, and its alleged tactility is a bit of an overstatement.

The biggest problem is that it theoretically should be lighter than MX Blues, but you need to depress the key farther down than with MX Blues to actuate, which also slows me down on account of what I perceive as unnecessary key travel.

Fingers don't bounce off in a similar way to BS or browns or some other keyboards, nor do they stick to the keycap the same way as with blues.

The RTS move known as tapping (repeat presses of the same key or two keyes interchangeably, often involving TAB) is slow. This is in marked contrast to the speed of Razer's new in-house(?) hi-speed switch. In fact, I've found a way to execute this move with Cherry blues without much issue (after a lot of practice), including cursor keys, to the point of being able to play arcade games, executing precise and rapid manoeuvres in car racers and so on. Here I have something more similar to a conventional gaming switch, but without this special 'blue-tap' ability, so to say. I loved 'blue-tapping' because it actually gave me control — the keycap was glued to the finger, I actuated the contact very quickly and very easily however many times I wanted, just treating it more like a dip switch (0/1 status key) than a conventional tapping key like cursors normally are. Again, not so here. At least not for the time being.

Bottoming out really is much more forgiving.

However, typing overall feels like an inredible lot of resistance for freaking 35g, compared to vintage browns or the older Buckling Spring (Model F and older devices). I'm typing in butter, and it ain't hot butter, and my fingers ain't no knives.

Spacebar is a nightmare. It fakes actuation despite not actuating. Other keys far less so, though it has happened.

Keycaps feel cheap and rough under my fingers. This may be confirmation bias due to reviews, as well as my having been spoiled by Filco keycaps (which aren't the cream of the crop but are quite luxurious compared to what I used to type on).

I suspect part of the reason I haven't felt that loving feeling yet is the keycaps. Perhaps replacing them to something more Topre-orthodox will help.

So, I'd like some suggestions, but I'll post a separate thread in the correct subforum for this. And yes, I know I can harvest the Filco caps, but I'd rather keep the Filco usable.