Author Topic: Apple's new XDR display.  (Read 2184 times)

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Offline tp4tissue

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Apple's new XDR display.
« on: Thu, 12 December 2019, 09:39:09 »

UPDATE:

A very limited Native 1000:1 contrast ratio.  so this is a bog-standard ips panel.

It DOES have local dimming, but the dimming is too few zones and not robust enough for HDR color-grading. <failing the claim>

This is pretty much limited to amateur videography,

It works as a photoshop monitor, but, there are better BIGGER and cheaper option for both  Videography and Photo.

Even panel uniformity is surprisingly bad for such an expensive display.

I can't believe they're selling something so mundane and unremarkable @ this price.

It's not even Apple-Tax at this price,  It's straight up dishonest, you'd have to be a complete amateur or a fool to pay that much for this monitor. 


For example, for the average video maker, even pro studio, they can buy an OLED for color grading SDR material.  OLED isn't the most stable, but for SDR it's stable enough.

Studios can even grade up to 300nit in HDR on Oleds, it won't be future proof, but relative to the current generation of displays, that's still enough dynamic range to looke HDR-y, even if it is a hack.

For pro Photoshop, ANY off the street wide gamut IPS can do what this monitor does. <many don't know this, but Photoshop doesn't demand extremely expensive monitors, it doesn't hurt, but it's not necessary>

For Content Consumption.. Fogettabout it.  Games and Movies will look like poop.

It's still an IPS afterall, and that is its greatest handicap for content consumption.

HDR can't be watched faithfully on an IPS panel, it's impossible.

SDR can be watched, but IPS will clip shadow details.


_________________________________________________________

 








The borchure has alot of jargon, they've taken some specs/ attributes and renamed them in Apple tradition.

Is it gimmick or truly revolutionary ?   Inoculation, this is not a TV, a budget $1200 OLED will still blow it away for movies


6016 by 3384 pixels.   

<This is a hard fact. No jokes here, This is a very high resolution panel.>


XDR: (Extreme Dynamic Range) 

< this is not a real thing or spec, it's apple speak. >

Brightness 1000nits: Sustained , 1600nit peak @ < 77F room temperature.

< LEDs can overheat, so they are thermal throttled, believable, it's not hard to do, it's just typically not done because the results are terrible (very bad blooming @ even 500-700nit) >


Contrast Ratio: 1,000,000:1


< This is Dynamic contrast ratio. the physics of IPS panels put the top range at ~ 1000-1500 : 1 ,  It's a real metric and we have seen professional Dolby Pulsar displays use it, but the dolby pulsar has DOUBLE the amount of dimming zones 6X the dimming zones if you count RGB >


SDR brightness: 500 nit

< The only reason they would create a separate color/brightness profile or mode, is if the PEAK mode doesn't actually look good. >
< You might argue, isn't HDR mode better, how could it not look good,  again, IPS = poor contrast ratio, even with advanced backlight dimming, at so few zones, blooming looks really bad, the brighter you go, the worse the blooming. >
< Shadow detail directly competes with HDR Highlight detail. This is an impossible balance on IPS panels w/low zones, because IPS's native contrast is so low.  Therefore realistically, in SDR, if those highlights don't exist, it's far better to retain more shadow detail, because those details are there with or without an HDR container.>


Super wide viewing angle:

<it's no wider than ANY other recent IPS panel >


Refresh rates:
    47.95Hz   48.00Hz   50.00Hz  59.94Hz  60.00Hz

< this is very refreshing for computer monitors, the 47.95hz is important for 23.976fps USA film,  the 48hz is good for 24fps Asia film, 50hz is good for alot of 25fps material from Euro >
< good one apple >


Available reference modes:
    Pro Display XDR (P3-1600 nits)
    Apple Display (P3-500 nits)
    HDR Video (P3-ST 2084)
    HDTV Video (BT.709-BT.1886)
    NTSC Video (BT.601 SMPTE-C)
    PAL and SECAM Video (BT.601 EBU)
    Digital Cinema (P3-DCI)
    Digital Cinema (P3-D65)
    Design and Print (P3-D50)
    Photography (P3-D65)
    Internet and Web (sRGB)

< These modes are VERY software dependent, I don't know if they've all been validated on all common industry softwares, but while they can claim that they're there, as a new hardware package, prepare to fight a long battle with compatibility,  This is always the case with new products though,  we'll see how good the support is. >


Dolby Vision, HDR10, and Hybrid-Log Gamma (HLG) playback support:

< I guess apple may be targeting prosumer or semi-pro color grading studios,  ones that can't afford a TRUE HDR color grading monitor, ~$40,000

But overall, even if that is the case, they're really really stretching what IPS can do with only 576 zones. this is not a good thing. >

< People might compare it to the dolby pro monitors, those use RGB LED, it doesn't say anywhere if the Apple is using rgb led, I don't think it is given the price tag >

< RGB LED is significantly superior because it essentially triples the dimming zones, so if you have 1000 zones, it's almost like having 3000 zones backlight, similar to how cleartype works >


IN CONCLUSION:

It doesn't make much sense for Picture Photography people to buy this monitor, because they don't need 1600nit or even 500 nit.  There are alot of other monitors far cheaper and work just as well.

For Movie guy, pirated Davinci Resolve people (who also work in HDR), Well yea, this is closer to a true HDR monitor, but for $5000,  you can buy 3x budget OLEDs which are much bigger to color grade on,  OR even use Large VA TVs, which are more brightness stable than OLED. Either VA or OLED, both will have much higher contrast ratio important for video mastering.

For UBER PRO, they wouldn't buy this period, because they'd get a Professional Oled or Panasonic LMCL paneled monitors, you know, ACTUAL HDR reference monitors.





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Offline Coreda

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Re: Apple's new XDR display.
« Reply #1 on: Thu, 12 December 2019, 09:52:44 »
I'm more interested Mini LED local dimming tech which has far more zones* than usual FALD HDR displays.

* The Asus ProArt PA32UCX has 1152 zones at 32'' and achieves 1200 peak nits.
« Last Edit: Thu, 12 December 2019, 09:54:52 by Coreda »

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Apple's new XDR display.
« Reply #2 on: Thu, 12 December 2019, 10:10:38 »
I'm more interested Mini LED local dimming tech which has far more zones* than usual FALD HDR displays.

* The Asus ProArt PA32UCX has 1152 zones at 32'' and achieves 1200 peak nits.


What is your use case,  creator or consumer ?

Offline Coreda

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Re: Apple's new XDR display.
« Reply #3 on: Thu, 12 December 2019, 10:35:38 »
What is your use case,  creator or consumer ?

It's the increased local dimming zones and brightness of MiniLED that is of interest since that benefits everyone alike and hasn't been seen in less exclusively priced displays until now (and I'd imagine in a few years will become more common). The Asus display appears to be catering to education and professional Ultra HD HDR video production and colorist markets looking for a 'budget' option ($4000) that still offers enough compelling features for what they do.

I'd be curious like you what the local dimming is like on this XDR display since it's around the same ballpark price wise.

Offline pixelpusher

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Re: Apple's new XDR display.
« Reply #4 on: Thu, 12 December 2019, 11:24:21 »
It's a perfect "Apple" product.  Way more product than the intended audience needs, priced at the professional who probably won't ever consider it.  Isn't this 90% of all Apple products? 

I'm not trying to hate on Apple.  This is just their market.  They are the king of "prosumer" products.  I'm okay with that. 

Offline romevi

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Re: Apple's new XDR display.
« Reply #5 on: Thu, 12 December 2019, 11:38:51 »
How will it work for retro games played on FPGAs or scan converters?

Offline Findecanor

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Re: Apple's new XDR display.
« Reply #6 on: Thu, 12 December 2019, 11:43:26 »
LOL ... imagine upscaling a Commodore 64's 160200 with borders to a 60163384 screen ...
Each original pixel is 1616 pixels.
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Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Apple's new XDR display.
« Reply #7 on: Thu, 12 December 2019, 18:51:06 »
How will it work for retro games played on FPGAs or scan converters?

It's thunderbolt so... some sort of adapter.

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Apple's new XDR display.
« Reply #8 on: Thu, 12 December 2019, 18:52:24 »
It's a perfect "Apple" product.  Way more product than the intended audience needs, priced at the professional who probably won't ever consider it.  Isn't this 90% of all Apple products? 

I'm not trying to hate on Apple.  This is just their market.  They are the king of "prosumer" products.  I'm okay with that. 

I would've liked to see apple do a Curved VA-panel.. but get it perfect, no bleed, no mura of any kind, 7000:1 contrast ratio..

But it might all be moot,  Hisense is doing LMCL and that's gonna blow away this Apple panel... 



Offline noisyturtle

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Re: Apple's new XDR display.
« Reply #9 on: Thu, 12 December 2019, 19:37:14 »

Offline Sintpinty

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Re: Apple's new XDR display.
« Reply #10 on: Fri, 13 December 2019, 07:16:39 »
Definitely would go with a 1440p 144 hertz instead

Offline Findecanor

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Re: Apple's new XDR display.
« Reply #11 on: Fri, 13 December 2019, 08:09:29 »
Definitely would go with a 1440p 144 hertz instead
The AOC CU34G2X looks like the screen to get, when it is released next month. Curved 34" VA 34401440 @ 144 Hz, with Freesync for 500.
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Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Apple's new XDR display.
« Reply #12 on: Fri, 13 December 2019, 08:15:14 »
Definitely would go with a 1440p 144 hertz instead
The AOC CU34G2X looks like the screen to get, when it is released next month. Curved 34" VA 34401440 @ 144 Hz, with Freesync for 500.

Hrrrm... seems to tick all the boxes.. it has MBR(ULMB) backlight strobe.  So that's a +

For $700 usd though.. hrrrrmm.... IDK.. 


Offline Kavik

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Re: Apple's new XDR display.
« Reply #13 on: Tue, 17 December 2019, 10:29:13 »
Has Tp4 considered writing reviews for a tech magazine or starting a Youtube review channel (i.e., making some money)? Such passion for the details seems almost wasted on the small GH audience.

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Apple's new XDR display.
« Reply #14 on: Tue, 17 December 2019, 10:50:50 »
Has Tp4 considered writing reviews for a tech magazine or starting a Youtube review channel (i.e., making some money)? Such passion for the details seems almost wasted on the small GH audience.

Nawh, Tp4 = Epic p00r,  that's the only way to fuel passion.

If it were about $$$,   Everything is suddenly good,  APPLE #1, Samsung #1, Microsoft #1,   

That's basically what Linus tech tips is, everything is good,  here's this little inconsequential thing Linus don't like, see guys, Linus not a sellout, but this tiny defect probably doesn't matter, everything is good, BUY THIS, check out our sponsors.

 

Offline noisyturtle

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Re: Apple's new XDR display.
« Reply #15 on: Tue, 17 December 2019, 15:51:32 »
Has Tp4 considered writing reviews for a tech magazine or starting a Youtube review channel (i.e., making some money)? Such passion for the details seems almost wasted on the small GH audience.

Nawh, Tp4 = Epic p00r,  that's the only way to fuel passion.
 


Linus Tech Tips makes $10k a day just reading a script someone else wrote for him

Offline Sniping

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Re: Apple's new XDR display.
« Reply #16 on: Tue, 17 December 2019, 17:57:23 »
Has Tp4 considered writing reviews for a tech magazine or starting a Youtube review channel (i.e., making some money)? Such passion for the details seems almost wasted on the small GH audience.

Nawh, Tp4 = Epic p00r,  that's the only way to fuel passion.
 


Linus Tech Tips makes $10k a day just reading a script someone else wrote for him

to be fair he was pumping out some of the best pc review content out on youtube back when no else was. anyone remember pcwizkid? i remember he was around the same size as linus tech tips in viewership, but soon just fizzled away with his bone dry personality and mediocre content.
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Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Apple's new XDR display.
« Reply #17 on: Sun, 09 February 2020, 18:46:17 »

UPDATE:

A very limited Native 1000:1 contrast ratio.  so this is a bog-standard ips panel.

It DOES have local dimming, but the dimming is too few zones and not robust enough for HDR color-grading. <failing the claim>

This is pretty much limited to amateur videography,

It works as a photoshop monitor, but, there are better BIGGER and cheaper option for both  Videography and Photo.

Even panel uniformity is surprisingly bad for such an expensive display.

I can't believe they're selling something so mundane and unremarkable @ this price.

It's not even Apple-Tax at this price,  It's straight up dishonest, you'd have to be a complete amateur or a fool to pay that much for this monitor. 


For example, for the average video maker, even pro studio, they can buy an OLED for color grading SDR material.  OLED isn't the most stable, but for SDR it's stable enough.

For pro Photoshop, ANY off the street wide gamut IPS can do what this monitor does. <many don't know this, but Photoshop doesn't demand extremely expensive monitors, it doesn't hurt, but it's not necessary>

For Content Consumption.. Fogettabout it.  Games and Movies will look like poop.

It's still an IPS afterall, and that is its greatest handicap for content consumption.

HDR can't be watched faithfully on an IPS panel, it's impossible.

SDR can be watched, but IPS will clip shadow details.