Young people don't seem to like star wars as much.

[tp4tissue]

It's very clear from the new disc sales, starwars is not pulling like it used to.

Perhaps young people have moved on.

Y'all thnk' it may be the pandemic ?

[Findecanor]

What discs? The box set that contains the sequel trilogy that everyone hates, and which still lacks the unmodified original trilogy?

[fohat.digs]

Perhaps young people have moved on.

Of course they have.

The mid-1970s are now almost 2 generations past, and every component has been absorbed into the culture and re-emerged many times. Like Star Trek a decade earlier, all those things that were exciting and spectacular when they were new now look painfully trite and cliched to 21st century eyes.

[SBJ]

Y'all thnk' it may be the pandemic ?

Damn pandemic!

[noisyturtle]

Imagine not liking something when it's consistently garbage.

[tp4tissue]

Imagine not liking something when it's consistently garbage.

[absyrd]

I'm not offended by this as much as their taste in rap music.

Maybe if Star Wars had ****tier dialogue with more meaningless face tattoos.

[Maledicted]

Disney ruined Star Wars. I refuse to even call it that anymore. I call it Disney Wars instead, since it is some kind of self-aware parody of what Star Wars should be now. The only movie they have released that wasn't absolute trash was Rogue One, and even that one's diversion from the CORRECT canon irritated me. I haven't given Disney a single cent since I saw Rogue One in theaters, and am so repulsed by their destruction of my favorite fiction franchise, that I plan on never giving them a cent again.

The beginning of the end was the The Force Unleashed video game, and the animated movie debut of Ahsoka Tano, especially since Anakin wasn't even a knight until Episode III. I feel like Lucas realized he couldn't keep up with trying to keep the entire universe cohesive anymore, because of the endless demand for new content that he had to carefully curate, so he must have reluctantly hoped that Disney could take the reigns. What a mistake. The EU should never have been wiped. It was a lazy move to allow Jar Jar Abrams to do whatever he pleased without having to worry about knowing literally anything about Star Wars, even though the movies that followed STILL managed to conflict with previous movies Disney considers canon to this day. Even that alone, before The Farce Awakens, was enough to sound the deathknell of the franchise. It was already over then and there, it just seems it has taken some people 6 years to realize it.

I imagine fewer people, in general, care about Star Wars than they used to, due to this historic bungling/milking. I doubt it has much to do with 21st century eyes, etc. I saw it for the first time as a kid in the 90s and I was awestruck by the setting, characters, pacing, and storytelling. The special effects, while groundbreaking at the time, at least hold up today, and thankfully, CGI couldn't be used as a crutch to distract from a terrible plot and 0 character development back then.

[Leslieann]

Disney ruined Star Wars. I refuse to even call it that anymore. I call it Disney Wars instead, since it is some kind of self-aware autistic parody of what Star Wars should be now. The only movie they have released that wasn't absolute trash was Rogue One, and even that one's diversion from the CORRECT cannon irritated me. I haven't given Disney a single cent since I saw Rogue One in theaters, and am so repulsed by their destruction of my favorite fiction franchise, that I plan on never giving them a cent again.

Lucas destroyed it long before Disney got ahold of it.

Personally, I liked Rogue One, just think of it as "The Orville" of the Star Wars universe, it doesn't fit into Star Wars perfectly and yet for some reason does Star Wars better than most Star Wars.

[Coreda]

Many ^{[weasel word][citation needed]} didn't find the prequels held up to even the originals and that was 15-20 years ago so I'm not surprised there isn't the same cultural hype over the brand there once was, though they're still very decent money makers.

[Dumble_Hub]

The Mandalorian seems to be thriving, people that never wached or enjoyed Star Wars watch it just for baby yoda. It my not be the same reason that many people like the Star Wars universe but it's keeping the franchise alive I guess.

[Maledicted]

Disney ruined Star Wars. I refuse to even call it that anymore. I call it Disney Wars instead, since it is some kind of self-aware autistic parody of what Star Wars should be now. The only movie they have released that wasn't absolute trash was Rogue One, and even that one's diversion from the CORRECT cannon irritated me. I haven't given Disney a single cent since I saw Rogue One in theaters, and am so repulsed by their destruction of my favorite fiction franchise, that I plan on never giving them a cent again.

Lucas destroyed it long before Disney got ahold of it.

Personally, I liked Rogue One, just think of it as "The Orville" of the Star Wars universe, it doesn't fit into Star Wars perfectly and yet for some reason does Star Wars better than most Star Wars.

We'll have to agree to disagree on that. The EU wasn't perfect, but it was almost entirely cohesive, certainly more than you would expect for something so ridiculously expansive, and we had Lucas' careful curation of canon to thank for that.

If you're coming from the "the prequels sucked" perspective, when taken objectively, I can seriously consider Return of the Jedi to be at least as bad as the worst of the prequel trilogy, if not even worse, and I consider Episode III to be up there with Empire Strikes back. I may even prefer it over Empire Strikes back. If you edit Jar Jar Binks out of A Phantom Menace, that movie's actually pretty fantastic, and the carefully-crafted overall plot of the prequel trilogy was masterful in my opinion, even if half of Attack of the Clones could have been cut from the movie. Some of the lines were stupid, but the overall character development, and symbolism, were good. I think it lived up to the 20+ years worth of hype over Anakin's origin and telling of his fall from grace.

I fault Lucas mostly at slipping up in those final few years, with the stupid animated nonsense (not the original Clone Wars mini series from Genndy Tartakovsky, that was great), and his last few video games.

All of his worst mistakes (there have definitely been many in his career), even in things like Kingdom of the Crystal Skull, were still immeasurably better than how Disney downright desecrated the franchise time and time again, in my opinion.

I do agree on Rogue One. I thoroughly enjoyed that movie, and it had the darkness/melancholy reminiscent of Empire and Revenge of the Sith. I still think that Vader entrance in the corridor may be the single greatest scene in Star Wars history. It still bothers me all the same.

The Mandalorian seems to be thriving, people that never wached or enjoyed Star Wars watch it just for baby yoda. It my not be the same reason that many people like the Star Wars universe but it's keeping the franchise alive I guess.

Boba Fett was my favorite character (besides maybe Revan), so I have resisted watching that at all. I hear he's now suddenly not a Mandalorian, somehow. It all makes me want to pretend Disney never happened. The writers, directors, and actors can only do so much with what's given to them though, of course.

[noisyturtle]

Lucas plunged the dagger in, Disney made the cut.

[tp4tissue]

Didn't notice this before, buhhh.. now that I've finished watching 4/5/6 on 4K,  you can really see how extremely rapidly Carrie Fisher was visually aging due to her drug use. a massive difference in appearance.

The difference was not apparent on VHS or DVD, even the original Blurays were a blurry mess.

[Maledicted]

Didn't notice this before, buhhh.. now that I've finished watching 4/5/6 on 4K,  you can really see how extremely rapidly Carrie Fisher was visually aging due to her drug use. a massive difference in appearance.

Sad, really. Even by the early 90s she sounded like she might have an Adam's apple. I don't know how she got into all of that offhand, but we, as a society, need to stop accepting the handing out of mind-altering/addictive drugs like candy by shrinks and doctors. We may be better off if benzos didn't exist at all, and even opioids should only be prescribed in the most dire of cases if you ask me. They get people addicted who weren't even curious about drugs to begin with.

All of it is generating unnecessary criminal behavior, definitely causing countless suicides, and murders, by people who should possibly not even be on the streets at all, much less popping pills that they have no real indication whatsoever of how they may react with their genetics, in conjunction with the rest of their daily drug cocktail, prescribed or otherwise.

[noisyturtle]

When you're done I wanna know how tp ranks all the Star Wars

[Kavik]

Didn't notice this before, buhhh.. now that I've finished watching 4/5/6 on 4K,  you can really see how extremely rapidly Carrie Fisher was visually aging due to her drug use. a massive difference in appearance.

Sad, really. Even by the early 90s she sounded like she might have an Adam's apple. I don't know how she got into all of that offhand, but we, as a society, need to stop accepting the handing out of mind-altering/addictive drugs like candy by shrinks and doctors. We may be better off if benzos didn't exist at all, and even opioids should only be prescribed in the most dire of cases if you ask me. They get people addicted who weren't even curious about drugs to begin with.

All of it is generating unnecessary criminal behavior, definitely causing countless suicides, and murders, by people who should possibly not even be on the streets at all, much less popping pills that they have no real indication whatsoever of how they may react with their genetics, in conjunction with the rest of their daily drug cocktail, prescribed or otherwise.

Eric Roberts has said that "fishbowls of coke" were brought to his trailer when on set during the '80s. The producers basically gave cocaine to actors so that they would be able to work 12+ hour days.

[Findecanor]

The mid-1970s are now almost 2 generations past, and every component has been absorbed into the culture and re-emerged many times. Like Star Trek a decade earlier, all those things that were exciting and spectacular when they were new now look painfully trite and cliched to 21st century eyes.

Star Trek managed to renew itself with first the movies in the 1980's and then TNG/Voyager/DS9 during the 1990's. I think that Star Wars had, several times.
Most (who have been) Star Wars fans were not even born in 1977! Myself, I grew up with the original trilogy on VHS and when my fandom got reignited in 2002, I met a lot of fans who were 5+ years younger than me — and not all of them were fans of the original trilogy first, like me.
I have also seen that the Clone Wars did attract a new wave of young fans, while also being well-liked by previous generations.

Many ^{[weasel word][citation needed]} didn't find the prequels held up to even the originals and that was 15-20 years ago so I'm not surprised there isn't the same cultural hype over the brand there once was, though they're still very decent money makers.

Yeah... and some people did not even think that Return of the Jedi (1983) held up to the previous two films, because the Ewoks were too cute and Jabba's palace had too many muppets. But each new movie has kept the majority of the old fans and brought in new.
The sequel trilogy has not brought in any significant number of new fans, while alienating the majority of the previous generations of fans. There's a big difference.

I feel like Lucas realized he couldn't keep up with trying to keep the entire universe cohesive anymore

Lucas never did. Other people at Lucasfilm did. Lucas did his own thing ("canon"), which was the movies, and another group at Lucasfilm created the (non-canon) "Expanded Universe" in books and other media by filling in the blanks from what Lucasfilm had told them.
In-between the prequel movies, the EU group did an amazing job producing an expanded story coherent across multiple media, in sync with Lucas's main story from the movie scripts.
The Clone Wars animated series was again Lucas' own thing — which is why it wasn't entirely coherent with the expanded universe.
The main writer and director on the show, however: Dave Filoni, was a new guy but a long-time super-fan who knew the Star Wars lore including the Expanded Universe inside and out.
He is also one of the producers of the Mandalorian, so there is some hope... albeit slight.

The EU should never have been wiped.

No, and it wasn't supposed to have been. When Lucas had left, the plan was first to unite the "non-canon" EU into the canon and make it into a coherent narrative. I attended the EU panel at Lucasfilm's own convention in 2013, and saw and heard the people in charge announce this!

[yui]

i believe that part of it is the strange order of the films, the rabid fan base and dated graphics, although technically very impressive for the time they do not hold up that well.

[tp4tissue]

Eric Roberts has said that "fishbowls of coke" were brought to his trailer when on set during the '80s. The producers basically gave cocaine to actors so that they would be able to work 12+ hour days.

I've always read about that in the magazine/ seen it on documentaries, but i realllly wonder if they are truly utilizing it to perform labor,  OR are they just saying that they are to justify their chemically hedonistic lifestyle to sort of dilute what is their lack of restraint/judgement as a human being. Is it merely giving them a politically correct/ socially acceptable reason to Do Drugs. Oh, I'm a good human because I only Do Drugs For Work. <fact, or hollywood pandering>

We have farmers in the world who work 12 hours and more Without-drugs, making far less money/ living in poverty, etc. In fact, the majority of the world's heroin come from precisely such destitute farmers.

It's true that some drugs keep you awake (not heroin), but to say that it was Necessary to get the work done, mmm.. I've always found it suspicious.


The events normally goes in this order.

Director makes movie,
Director found to be a drug addict,
Society shocked,
Movie sales tank

Hollywood rewrite

Director makes movie
Director found to be a drug addict,
Director confess that drugs were necessary to complete the movie
Society shocked, but forgiving
Movie sales OK

[fanpeople]

Se below for some mother****ing truth bombs.

When you're done I wanna know how tp ranks all the Star Wars

Imagine not liking something when it's consistently garbage.

Lucas plunged the dagger in, Disney made the cut.

[tp4tissue]

Se below for some mother****ing truth bombs.

When you're done I wanna know how tp ranks all the Star Wars

Imagine not liking something when it's consistently garbage.

Lucas plunged the dagger in, Disney made the cut.

NTurtle is very intense about his Star Wars.

[Maledicted]

I feel like Lucas realized he couldn't keep up with trying to keep the entire universe cohesive anymore

Lucas never did. Other people at Lucasfilm did. Lucas did his own thing ("canon"), which was the movies, and another group at Lucasfilm created the (non-canon) "Expanded Universe" in books and other media by filling in the blanks from what Lucasfilm had told them.
In-between the prequel movies, the EU group did an amazing job producing an expanded story coherent across multiple media, in sync with Lucas's main story from the movie scripts.
The Clone Wars animated series was again Lucas' own thing — which is why it wasn't entirely coherent with the expanded universe.
The main writer and director on the show, however: Dave Filoni, was a new guy but a long-time super-fan who knew the Star Wars lore including the Expanded Universe inside and out.
He is also one of the producers of the Mandalorian, so there is some hope... albeit slight.

Sure, Lucas wasn't involved in every single granular choice. I didn't imply that, just that he made sure that everything was cohesive and fit into the universe before he would greenlight any project.

The Clone Wars animated series that was not made by Genndy Tartakovsky conflicts with the original EU in almost every single scene. I can't stomach a single episode without wanting to go on a tirade. Freaking mandalorians all arbitrarily dressed up exactly like Jango Fett, jetpacks with integrated rocket launchers and all, even though he bought that jetpack after he had become a bounty hunter. The armor itself was seriously only scout armor for crying out loud. Why do the inhabitants of the entire planet dress exactly like him? Ridiculous.

Maul somehow magically surviving being cut in half at the torso and free-falling into a seemingly bottomless pit, only to return with spider legs? Literally all of that idea was lifted from old fan fiction, and I thought it was cheesy when I first saw it years and years ago in a low-budget film on Youtube.

The EU should never have been wiped.

No, and it wasn't supposed to have been. When Lucas had left, the plan was first to unite the "non-canon" EU into the canon and make it into a coherent narrative. I attended the EU panel at Lucasfilm's own convention in 2013, and saw and heard the people in charge announce this!

The EU was originally considered canon. There was no point in carefully curating the whole process if it was not. The novel writers even sometimes changed Lucas' mind on things, like how Boba Fett ended up surviving the Sarlacc. It all already fit well, with few exceptions (like maybe the Emperor's bizarre cloning program ... yeah, him surviving ROTJ in a roundabout way was lifted from the EU too). Writers, in general, were pretty careful to just fill in blanks that were otherwise not covered (like with events in the Old Republic that predated the lives of any of the protagonists of the movies), and Lucas and his team used to make sure that fit the overall narrative before it could be published.

Now we've got a situation in which Disney considers the movies canon, yet says stupid things like "midichlorians don't exist" ... when they're explained in detail by Qui Gon in The Phantom Menace. I think the greatest example of how big of a farce this all would become is when fans at a panel tried to ask Jar Jar Abrams, and maybe Michael Arndt, if Snoke could be Darth Plagueis ... and they didn't even know who Plagueis was. Seriously? You're writing a "Star Wars" movie and you haven't even watched the previous 6?

[Findecanor]

Maul somehow magically surviving being cut in half at the torso and free-falling into a seemingly bottomless pit, only to return with spider legs? Literally all of that idea was lifted from old fan fiction, and I thought it was cheesy when I first saw it years and years ago in a low-budget film on Youtube.

BTW. Maul had been lifted from an alternative universe comic book, where Maul tracked down Obi-Wan on Tatooine to get revenge many years later. https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Old_Wounds

Yeah, it was silly in Clone Wars but Maul was a fan-favourite and underused ...

Personally, I am not happy with how they developed Asajj Ventress' origin story and appearance.

[Maledicted]

Maul somehow magically surviving being cut in half at the torso and free-falling into a seemingly bottomless pit, only to return with spider legs? Literally all of that idea was lifted from old fan fiction, and I thought it was cheesy when I first saw it years and years ago in a low-budget film on Youtube.

BTW. Maul had been lifted from an alternative universe comic book, where Maul tracked down Obi-Wan on Tatooine to get revenge many years later. https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Old_Wounds

Yeah, it was silly in Clone Wars but Maul was a fan-favourite and underused ...

Personally, I am not happy with how they developed Asajj Ventress' origin story and appearance.

You're probably right about that. The fan video that I saw did seem to follow the same premise. That's been the trend though. Wipe the EU, pick and choose what you like from it, tweak it, and call it your own. I call Kylo "Fake Revan".

I have always figured that Asajj Ventress is probably an early example of this from the Lucas era. She's way too similar to Komari Vosa. Being a secretive dark jedi apprentice of Dooku, dual curved blades, their personalities and appearance, etc. How lazy is that? I mean seriously?

I can't comment on the nitty gritty, since Disneys' "Legends" are not true to the original EU, so much of even that has been modified. I really need to find a pre-Disney version of Wookiepedia, and save a local copy of the whole thing. How radically different it has become has made me wonder if I'm crazy at times.

[chyros]

I really only like 4, 5 and 6. Starting from ep. 1, everything was pretty terrible in my opinion. The old films did have a lot of really cheesy moments in them, but they're funny in their own way and memorable.

[Maledicted]

I really only like 4, 5 and 6. Starting from ep. 1, everything was pretty terrible in my opinion. The old films did have a lot of really cheesy moments in them, but they're funny in their own way and memorable.

I still say 6 is arguably worse than the worst of the prequel trilogy. The entire romance subplot of Attack of the Clones sucks, Jar Jar Binks sucks, but they at least had somewhat believable plots.

In ROTJ you've literally got a scenario in which a small ragtag rebellion, which has literally been dogged across the galaxy, losing what little resources it has left and right, faces down an entire fleet of capital ships, some like the Executor vastly superior to their own, and a moon-sized base capable of vaporizing each of them in an instant, with a tiny handful of capital ships, some fighters and bombers, and little frigates/etc ... and somehow winning. Even then this was only made possible by a small village of bipedal teddy bears, armed with sticks and rocks, having defeated an entire battalion of Stormtroopers with freaking mechs, so that the shields of the Death Star could be taken down, allowing a small freighter and some fighters to attempt a suicide rush through the cramped service tunnels within to destroy it.

Then, of course, there's the fact that a "jedi knight", who should literally just barely even be a padawan, having had the best of training in failing to lift small rocks with the force, and running around doing gymnastics with a hairy green dwarf strapped to his back, somehow managed to defeat one of the most powerful, and knowledgeable (at least in lightsaber combat) Sith Lords in all of Star Wars' multiple millennia worth of history, who had something like 3 decades worth of formal training and experience.

That movie is absolutely ludicrous when looked at without rose-tinted glasses, if you ask me.

[tp4tissue]

George Lucas = Bad writer,  PERIOD.  this is not disputed.

SW is for Old'People what Harry Potter is for young people.  Not literary achievements but immensely popular with Youth of the era..

[Maledicted]

George Lucas = Bad writer,  PERIOD.  this is not disputed.

SW is for Old'People what Harry Potter is for young people.  Not literary achievements but immensely popular with Youth of the era..

I disagree, and lament the popular shift in opinion in this direction. Many of this ideas became fantastic stories (American Graffiti, Star Wars, Indiana Jones, even Willow, etc). He's just not always perfect in that regard, and could often use a little constructive criticism, especially when fleshing out characters, etc. His dialogue is often his weakest point, and once Harrison Ford, and the other fantastic actors he's worked with have made the dialogue relatable/human (since some of the lines he writes make you wonder if he's a cyborg or something), the bones of the plot, the symbolism, etc, are usually wonderful, even if he apparently heavily based Star Wars on Kurowsawa's classic, The Hidden Fortress (which I still need to see).

I got into Star Wars, again, in the 90s, when there was nothing but the original trilogy. The HP movies started churning out when I was in 6th grade. Nothing about the premise appealed to me, so I haven't read a single chapter of the books, or watched any of the movies all of the way through, besides maybe the first? And that's only because it bombarded cable tv for years straight.

[noisyturtle]

Dude ROJ is great. People bandwagon hate on it because of the Ewoks. Jabbas Palace was awesome, the racor, the final fight. **** right off if you think ROJ is one of the worst. It's not even close.

Saying it's worse than Attack is absolute madness.

[Maledicted]

Dude ROJ is great. People bandwagon hate on it because of the Ewoks. Jabbas Palace was awesome, the racor, the final fight. **** right off if you think ROJ is one of the worst. It's not even close.

Saying it's worse than Attack is absolute madness.

Jabbas palace was awesome, the rancor was awesome, absolutely. None of that has anything to do with whether or not the plot made any sense though. I don't think the final battle was half as good as the one in Empire Strikes Back, or literally any of the climactic lightsaber battles of the prequels.

I hate a terrible movie for its very real shortcomings. I disliked that movie even as a little kid, before The Phantom Menace had even come out. That's saying something.

Anakin's search for his mother, his first taste of the dark side with the Tusken Raiders, his inner turmoil over loyalty to his teachings, Kenobi's slow unraveling of just what/who they were up against, everything about the Fetts, the revelations about the clone army, the Battle of Geonosis (short of the stupid C-3PO scenes), etc. There was a lot to like about Attack of the Clones, if you looked past the stupid/awkward romance dialogue/scenes. The plot made sense, and was riveting/engaging. It made a big enough impression on me to name my very first email address after Jango Fett, one I still use to this day.

ROTJ, by contrast, was filled with the absurdities outlined in my previous post, the revelation that Luke and Leia came dangerously close to an incestuous relationship, Chewbacca was Tarzan reincarnated, and that the the most menacing/powerful capital ship ever constructed to date was no match for an accidental Kamikazee in an A-wing.

The most redeeming/convincing thing about that whole movie was the tension/turmoil between father and son over the dark side, and the poignant comparison between Luke's prosthetic and those of his father, as if to suggest that he was on the brink of becoming just like him. Nothing else about the overarching plot was redeemable besides most of the early Tatooine scenes.

[funkmon]

Dude ROJ is great. People bandwagon hate on it because of the Ewoks. Jabbas Palace was awesome, the racor, the final fight. **** right off if you think ROJ is one of the worst. It's not even close.

Saying it's worse than Attack is absolute madness.

Nah, I hate it. I'm still a fan of Star Wars, even the Disneyfied ones because to me, Star Wars is Star Wars and that's all I need, even if it's ****. Hence, I rewatch the films on occasion, and I find myself, every ****ing time, to dread when Jedi comes up.

Here's my ranking.

1. SW
2. Empire
3. Revenge
4. TPM
5. Rogue One
6. AOTC
7. Solo
8. ROTJ
9. TFA
10. Rise of Skywalker
11. TLJ

[Leslieann]

If you're coming from the "the prequels sucked" perspective, when taken objectively, I can seriously consider Return of the Jedi to be at least as bad as the worst of the prequel trilogy, if not even worse, and I consider Episode III to be up there with Empire Strikes back. I may even prefer it over Empire Strikes back. If you edit Jar Jar Binks out of A Phantom Menace, that movie's actually pretty fantastic, and the carefully-crafted overall plot of the prequel trilogy was masterful in my opinion, even if half of Attack of the Clones could have been cut from the movie. Some of the lines were stupid, but the overall character development, and symbolism, were good. I think it lived up to the 20+ years worth of hype over Anakin's origin and telling of his fall from grace.

Movie companies don't care about desecrating your fragile childhood favorites, they only worship money.

My problem with the prequels is they spent too long on the love story and origins and completely squandered the story I (and probably many others) wanted to see. Vader, not Anakin, Vader. Ep. 3 should have been all about Vader building his reputation. Yes, Anakin is Vader, but Anakin was still thought of as a Jedi until he became Vader.  Not only did we not see Vader we got some sh*tty "NNNNOOOOOOOO" and the end which was completely out of character for such an ominous person.

There's a fan edit called anti-cheese, it removed unnecessary fluff (and Jar Jar) and knocks episode 1 and 2 down from 4 and a half hours to just 3 hours without losing anything. Re-cut 1,2, and 3 down to just two movies using that technique and you now have enough room in there for a movie focused on Vader and how he built his reputation. Or simply add another movie, either way, I want to see Vader tearing through rebels, mistreating his generals and force choking people.

Ewoks were there to sell toys to kids, just as BB-8 was. Star Wars has always been about selling out, it created the movie toy industry.

[noisyturtle]

Honestly, I may even go so far as to say The Mandolorian as a whole is better than every Star Wars movie ever made. And it's still not without some big flaws.

I will say that each time I rewatch Revenge of the Sith I like it more and more. Easily one of the top 5 SW films at least. Or perhaps it's the contrast between the other two prequels being so freaking terrible.

[tp4tissue]

anti-cheese,

Tp4 100% behind Anti-Cheese, Dairy is #1 cause of prostate and breast cancer.

[Findecanor]

I love Return of the Jedi. It is my favourite Star Wars film.
I think the only weak point in the story is how the Rebel friends had planned to rescue Han Solo from Jabba's palace. It was a weak, stupidly risky plan to begin with, and then it turned bad.

Luke and Leia being siblings was retconning for a hint in ESB that Luke had a force-sensitive sibling. There had been a plan for future films to have Luke go on a quest for his lost sister — which was originally not Leia — but Lucasfilm decided to cut the series short.

Ewoks were there to sell toys to kids ...

The theme of having underdogs fighting - and winning - with low-tech weapons over the high-tech bad guys had been one of the core ideas that Lucas had back in the mid-1970s when he started writing the script that became the first movie. Several variations of the themes are in his early "drafts" -- (that are actually widely different to one-another though, except for main themes, characters and situations)
In one incarnation, the tribe had been Wookiees (... led by "Queen Jarmilla" of the "Jawas" ... Yeah, the names had not been set in stone), but come ROTJ he decided to make them a different race from Chewbacca's. That is also where the name "Ewok" comes from: it is an anagram for "Wookiee".

But yeah... the Ewok movies that came later, and the animated series were cash-grabs ...

[Shapey Fiend]

I grew up in the 80's and watched the movies then. I wasn't that crazy about them?

As for the new ones, god no, saw two of them cos I had to bring kids, I quite literally fell asleep in the cinema, twice.

I don't get how they lasted this long tbh.

They've also turned Star Trek into Star Wars now, and there's all the superhero stuff. Too much recycling of concepts going on. Too many movies for everyone that don't have any specificity.

I've said it before Lucas made films that were bad but they had some character and at least had the ambition to fail. The new ones are like they're focus tested into the ground using formulas on formulas hitting the same old story and character beats. It's Robert McKee ****.

[tp4tissue]

I've said it before Lucas made films that were bad but they had some character and at least had the ambition to fail. The new ones are like they're focus tested into the ground using formulas on formulas hitting the same old story and character beats. It's Robert McKee ****.

It has to be this way.  The mass market is parents imprisoned by their offspring's momentary idiocy.

The movies are mainly for-them, as are toys, music, games, etc.

The creators have warehouses full of harvard grads making this stuff. They certainly CAN make a movie that's new/ convoluted/ and intellectual,  but they can't sell the damn thing, because however good that thing is, it's not as good as what Adults already have access to , namely drugs/secs/alcohol.

Heroin/Fentanyl is around every corner, secs is a couple clicks away on the internet, and one can drink himself to death on $4 a day.

How will you spend $150 million and hope to recoup the cost, and what sort of risks are you willing to take on that, big movies flop all the time.

That's the conundrum.

[fohat.digs]

I quite literally fell asleep in the cinema, twice.

They've also turned Star Trek into Star Wars now, and there's all the superhero stuff.

My experiences are different on the first point. I turn my expectations off and just go with it, in which case they are mostly pretty entertaining while they are happening. After I have seen a movie, I always think about it for hours (and sometimes days). That is when I conclude that while these were was enjoyable for a couple of hours, it was actually sh!t.

I would say that both Star Trek and Star Wars have been turned into the Marvel universe with the supernatural bits being somewhat attenuated.

[Maledicted]

If you're coming from the "the prequels sucked" perspective, when taken objectively, I can seriously consider Return of the Jedi to be at least as bad as the worst of the prequel trilogy, if not even worse, and I consider Episode III to be up there with Empire Strikes back. I may even prefer it over Empire Strikes back. If you edit Jar Jar Binks out of A Phantom Menace, that movie's actually pretty fantastic, and the carefully-crafted overall plot of the prequel trilogy was masterful in my opinion, even if half of Attack of the Clones could have been cut from the movie. Some of the lines were stupid, but the overall character development, and symbolism, were good. I think it lived up to the 20+ years worth of hype over Anakin's origin and telling of his fall from grace.

Movie companies don't care about desecrating your fragile childhood favorites, they only worship money.

My problem with the prequels is they spent too long on the love story and origins and completely squandered the story I (and probably many others) wanted to see. Vader, not Anakin, Vader. Ep. 3 should have been all about Vader building his reputation. Yes, Anakin is Vader, but Anakin was still thought of as a Jedi until he became Vader.  Not only did we not see Vader we got some sh*tty "NNNNOOOOOOOO" and the end which was completely out of character for such an ominous person.

There's a fan edit called anti-cheese, it removed unnecessary fluff (and Jar Jar) and knocks episode 1 and 2 down from 4 and a half hours to just 3 hours without losing anything. Re-cut 1,2, and 3 down to just two movies using that technique and you now have enough room in there for a movie focused on Vader and how he built his reputation. Or simply add another movie, either way, I want to see Vader tearing through rebels, mistreating his generals and force choking people.

Ewoks were there to sell toys to kids, just as BB-8 was. Star Wars has always been about selling out, it created the movie toy industry.

I'm aware of all of this. I somewhat disagree on what the focus of the trilogy should be, and definitely disagree that the plot was bad. I wanted to see Vader's rise as well, and I honestly hoped Lucas would make a spinoff movie after Episode III that would include part of the 20-ish odd years that spanned the trilogies, like we sort of eventually got with Rogue One. I know I started writing my own stories about it immediately after I saw the movie (I wore a semi home-made Vader outfit to the theater when ROTS came out, he's in my top 3 favorite SW characters).

I think people are putting too much emphasis on on the bipedal teddy bears. It wouldn't matter what they were. The thing that makes no sense about it is the fact that they took out a battalion of the empire's best soldiers, and armored vehicles, with vastly inferior numbers, armed with sticks and rocks.

anti-cheese,

Tp4 100% behind Anti-Cheese, Dairy is #1 cause of prostate and breast cancer.

Does that basically mean that Wisconsin is literally a geographical manifestation of cancer? I'll risk the cancer. Fresh dairy is wonderful.

[tp4tissue]

Does that basically mean that Wisconsin is literally a geographical manifestation of cancer? I'll risk the cancer. Fresh dairy is wonderful.

As with smoking, users take it very personally. Given more time, we meet with reality.

Truth is true whether people believe it or not, and it's not-just-Wisconson, the world over.

We have this information now, and NOT only cheese, but concentrated Animal feeding operations in general is the primary spawning bed for pandemics and antibiotic resistant bacteria..  All the big killers throughout history have come from the congregation of animals into tight spaces.

Now that Plant based eating has also gone mainstream, we are very very sure that humans are not even biologically suited for meat consumption.

So, why are we still playing with this very dangerous bio-hazard.

feature=youtu.be&t=12m52s

[chyros]

Now that Plant based eating has also gone mainstream, we are very very sure that humans are not even biologically suited for meat consumption.

Biologically speaking that makes zero sense . We have a digestive system that's well-adapted to eating meat, and not adapted to grazing. Surely this would be obvious even from a layman's perspective .

[tp4tissue]

Now that Plant based eating has also gone mainstream, we are very very sure that humans are not even biologically suited for meat consumption.

Biologically speaking that makes zero sense . We have a digestive system that's well-adapted to eating meat, and not adapted to grazing. Surely this would be obvious even from a layman's perspective .

Hahahaha. Chyros, you gotta watch the game changers documentary..

[tp4tissue]

How come random people can speak droid.

Tp4 barely speeka engris..

[Leslieann]

The new ones are like they're focus tested into the ground using formulas on formulas hitting the same old story and character beats.

Because they are.

You don't bet the company on a blockbuster without it.
Many movie studios literally bet the company on each and every major release, it's stupid, it's reckless, and it's exactly why so many were swallowed up by others. And they did it to themselves.

The thing that makes no sense about it is the fact that they took out a battalion of the empire's best soldiers, and armored vehicles, with vastly inferior numbers, armed with sticks and rocks.

I have that problem with pretty much EVERY modern war scenario in movies.

Unless there's a lot of collateral damage ground troops are simply a clean up crew.
Why would you send ground troops to fight some small rag tag group of rebels on some far off planet when you could just bring in a a drone, a jet or in this case a Deathstar and blow up the entire continent. They already blew up how many planets?

I get the theory that Vader was trying to protect his kid(s) but no commander is going to let you keep losing massive amounts of troops and hardware because you are trying to protect one person who is fighting for the enemy, at some point someone is going to put their foot down.

[fohat.digs]

armed with sticks and rocks.

I have that problem with pretty much EVERY modern war scenario in movies.

I love it even in the garden variety cop/spy/war movie where the hero is unscathed with dozens of machine guns unloading on him and yet he can turn around and bring down a helicopter at 200 meters with a single shot from a pistol.

[Leslieann]

I love it even in the garden variety cop/spy/war movie where the hero is unscathed with dozens of machine guns unloading on him and yet he can turn around and bring down a helicopter at 200 meters with a single shot from a pistol.

The first part is less about the number of bullets and weapons than the quality of your goons. 

The latter part is actually possible, unlikely but certainly possible.

[Maledicted]

The thing that makes no sense about it is the fact that they took out a battalion of the empire's best soldiers, and armored vehicles, with vastly inferior numbers, armed with sticks and rocks.

I have that problem with pretty much EVERY modern war scenario in movies.

Unless there's a lot of collateral damage ground troops are simply a clean up crew.
Why would you send ground troops to fight some small rag tag group of rebels on some far off planet when you could just bring in a a drone, a jet or in this case a Deathstar and blow up the entire continent. They already blew up how many planets?

I get the theory that Vader was trying to protect his kid(s) but no commander is going to let you keep losing massive amounts of troops and hardware because you are trying to protect one person who is fighting for the enemy, at some point someone is going to put their foot down.

In the empire's defense, in that regard, if they glass that part of the planet, they may well lose their shield generator ... which was the very objective of the rebels that landed there. They were also in heavy foliage, so bombing the hell out of the forest with tie bombers might not be very effective. Unfortunately, the empire didn't have B-52s and endless supplies of napalm like we did in Vietnam. Not sure they really had any drones per se, unless you count things like IG-88s probe droids (though he probably no longer even made these for the empire, thanks Disney). Regardless, it should have literally been a massacre. Whether or not the Ewoks were armed at all should have made little difference when we're talking sticks and rocks against mechs, blasters, and armor. It would be like Britain's colonial conquests/massacres, before the natives had caught on to gunpowder.

armed with sticks and rocks.

I have that problem with pretty much EVERY modern war scenario in movies.

I love it even in the garden variety cop/spy/war movie where the hero is unscathed with dozens of machine guns unloading on him and yet he can turn around and bring down a helicopter at 200 meters with a single shot from a pistol.

I have a feeling you're thinking specifically of the cheesy old Chuck Norris movies where he's got an AK with unlimited ammo, with which he does literally shoot down choppers, and stands around motionlessly in the wide open while being shot at by 20 people and is miraculously protected from all harm from the heavens above, like George Washington.

I love movies that are that cheesy, in order to make fun of them. I even challenge myself to finish some exceptionally terrible movies. The worst so far was Santa Claus Conquers the Martians. The "martians" are literally just people with stupid-looking outfits and very visible (even in black and white) paint on their faces, sometimes even freaking pipe cleaners for antenna. The set design is horrific, to the point where what's supposed to be a space ship is very obviously some janitor's closet in a basement somewhere. The premise of the movie, as made evident by the title, is literally beyond stupid. That movie felt, to me, without exaggeration, like it was 5 hours long. Halfway through I had to pause and break for some Excedrin because its stupidity was causing a headache. It is a pretty fun challenge to attempt with a friend.

[fohat.digs]

I have a feeling you're thinking specifically of the cheesy old Chuck Norris movies where he's got an AK with unlimited ammo,

Now that you mention it, I don't think that I have ever seen a Chuck Norris movie. I do remember when he was killed by Bruce Lee in the Coliseum in Rome, probably the only time that happened on screen.

But the ammunition/reloading dilemma is one of those things. For some of these scenes every participant would have had to have had a 100-pound backpack full of ammunition just to get through a 5-minute fight.

[tp4tissue]

awef