Author Topic: Why the obsession with Keycult?  (Read 1070 times)

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Offline thestateofmay

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Why the obsession with Keycult?
« on: Sat, 25 July 2020, 03:03:11 »
Their boards are really nice and you can only obtain one through raffles, but it seems like to me that they're regarded as the #1 god tier while some other board makers are making boards just as qualified. Any features or details I'm missing?

Online powwu

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Re: Why the obsession with Keycult?
« Reply #1 on: Sat, 25 July 2020, 04:17:17 »
I think the reasoning is already explained well in the name.

Offline jamster

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Re: Why the obsession with Keycult?
« Reply #2 on: Sat, 25 July 2020, 07:02:18 »
I suspect the number of 'obsessed' people is quite limited, I've managed to be into mech boards for decades, only figured out what the brand was a month ago. And wrote it off immediately as a load of saddo wankery.

None of the people I know IRL who are into mech boards would have heard of them, and none of them would be terribly impressed or interested.

My opinion is that anyone who is desperately impressed by something like keycult just needs something, anything, to be obsessed with.

« Last Edit: Sat, 25 July 2020, 07:05:30 by jamster »

Offline -Jerry-

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Re: Why the obsession with Keycult?
« Reply #3 on: Sat, 25 July 2020, 07:09:23 »
I don’t really see anything special about their boards and while they’re artificially scarce, they’re not any more so than any other custom keyboard runs that are sold in limited numbers. When it comes to the “brands” that sell high end keyboards, I feel like I see far more about Rama.
     
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Offline Sup

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Re: Why the obsession with Keycult?
« Reply #4 on: Sat, 25 July 2020, 16:51:02 »
Its overhyped since they also made Tfue's custom keyboard.
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Offline Sifo

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Re: Why the obsession with Keycult?
« Reply #5 on: Sat, 25 July 2020, 17:09:48 »
While the community may have blown Keycult's hype out of proportion please don't confuse that for what it started out as and continues to be. Keycult has some of the highest QC in all of keyboards and is run by some of the nicest people in the community who have been around for far longer than the brand itself, and a lot of other designers. Their boards are based on a lot more experience than the average custom. At the end of the day this hobby is entirely subjective so if you like KC, whether for the right or wrong reasons, that's up to you. I clearly love those guys but I wouldn't call KC or anyone else "#1".
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Offline clik_clak

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Re: Why the obsession with Keycult?
« Reply #6 on: Sat, 25 July 2020, 17:23:12 »
...Keycult has some of the highest QC in all of keyboards...

I've had quite a few high end boards, and I will say that my 1/65 had some of the smoothest finish I've ever felt on a keyboard. Absolutely perfect finish.

Offline -Jerry-

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Re: Why the obsession with Keycult?
« Reply #7 on: Sat, 25 July 2020, 17:37:57 »
...Keycult has some of the highest QC in all of keyboards...

I've had quite a few high end boards, and I will say that my 1/65 had some of the smoothest finish I've ever felt on a keyboard. Absolutely perfect finish.

I'm eating my words a little after seeing that 1/65 build thread. I said I didn't see anything special vs any other high end customs, but then I saw all the little attention to detail points and the packaging in that thread and.. damn.
     
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Offline Sifo

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Re: Why the obsession with Keycult?
« Reply #8 on: Sat, 25 July 2020, 18:29:13 »
...Keycult has some of the highest QC in all of keyboards...

I've had quite a few high end boards, and I will say that my 1/65 had some of the smoothest finish I've ever felt on a keyboard. Absolutely perfect finish.

I'm eating my words a little after seeing that 1/65 build thread. I said I didn't see anything special vs any other high end customs, but then I saw all the little attention to detail points and the packaging in that thread and.. damn.

That's the problem with this hobby, people are quick to jump on the hate just because there's so much hype around them. Yes at the end of the day it's just a keyboard. In my opinion, not only do you have to have actually seen a Keycult board in real life, but you also need to experience what other high end boards have to offer in real life as well. That's the only way you'd notice the attention to detail and minute differences that you'll only find in a KC.

And to the counter argument of "it's impossible to get a KC", KC can put out as many or as few keyboards as they want to. You can claim artificial scarcity but they put out as few as they do because 1. their production is in-house, can't expect the capacity of a Chinese factory 2. the amount of time it takes for them to be satisfied with a product to ship out takes far longer than other boards because of their desire for quality and 3. I might be wrong on this but I don't believe they ever intended for KC to be a mass available brand to begin with and especially never expected this much interest from a community growing THIS fast. 
« Last Edit: Sat, 25 July 2020, 18:37:39 by Sifo »
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Offline -Jerry-

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Re: Why the obsession with Keycult?
« Reply #9 on: Sat, 25 July 2020, 18:38:14 »

I'm eating my words a little after seeing that 1/65 build thread. I said I didn't see anything special vs any other high end customs, but then I saw all the little attention to detail points and the packaging in that thread and.. damn.

That's the problem with this hobby, people are quick to jump on the hate just because there's so much hype around them. Yes at the end of the day it's just the keyboard. In my opinion, not only do you have to have actually seen a Keycult board in real life, but you also need to experience what other high end boards have to offer in real life as well. That's the only way you'd notice the attention to detail and minute differences that you'll only find in a KC.

It’s unfortunate that most hobby communities are often the same way. When I was a photographer, everything was so Canon vs Nikon, when objectively they’re both perfectly good. Likewise, as a custom PC builder, I see so much divisiveness in communities based on choice of parts, manufacturers, etc.

The problem probably comes with keyboards that the very high end stuff seems so unattainable to most people. Hell, even with a healthy household income, having a toddler and nursery fees to worry about means I’ll be lucky to get even one high end custom in the next few years, let alone be able to compare and contrast. I suspect most people are in that situation and so that’s a factor.
     
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Offline jamster

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Re: Why the obsession with Keycult?
« Reply #10 on: Sat, 25 July 2020, 23:51:37 »
I don't know, they might be fantastic people, the cases might have incredible attention to detail. Fundamentally, the physical shell of a keyboard just doesn't hold any appeal to me. I care about switches, layouts and caps.

I've been in a lot of technically inclined hobbies that have 'camps'. Photography, various flavours of rockclimbing and mountaineering, road and mountain biking, personal computing. The older and more experienced I've gotten, the more accepting I've been of the ideas in different camps. But this fancy case thing is still beyond me, and I suspect it always will be.

The impression that I get is that this section of enthusiast market tends towards the more impressionable, younger and possibly less career-established. Dropping a grand or whatever it is on an extremely well designed... aluminum case and carefully presented packaging... seems weird to me. I guess I could afford it- the cost of one is easily dwarfed by monthly outgoings on school fees and mortgages, but everything these cases, and similar offerings, are about are completely tangential to what I enjoy about mechanical keyboards.


Offline thestateofmay

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Re: Why the obsession with Keycult?
« Reply #11 on: Sun, 26 July 2020, 01:46:19 »
I don't know, they might be fantastic people, the cases might have incredible attention to detail. Fundamentally, the physical shell of a keyboard just doesn't hold any appeal to me. I care about switches, layouts and caps.

I've been in a lot of technically inclined hobbies that have 'camps'. Photography, various flavours of rockclimbing and mountaineering, road and mountain biking, personal computing. The older and more experienced I've gotten, the more accepting I've been of the ideas in different camps. But this fancy case thing is still beyond me, and I suspect it always will be.

The impression that I get is that this section of enthusiast market tends towards the more impressionable, younger and possibly less career-established. Dropping a grand or whatever it is on an extremely well designed... aluminum case and carefully presented packaging... seems weird to me. I guess I could afford it- the cost of one is easily dwarfed by monthly outgoings on school fees and mortgages, but everything these cases, and similar offerings, are about are completely tangential to what I enjoy about mechanical keyboards.

I agree. I could care less about the package it came in or the thoughtful pins included to help me build the board. I'd pay top dollar for a well designed case with top notch feel and sound but there's so many designers in the community that fits that qualification, which got me wondering on this topic.

Offline jamster

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Re: Why the obsession with Keycult?
« Reply #12 on: Sun, 26 July 2020, 02:20:04 »
I don't know, they might be fantastic people, the cases might have incredible attention to detail. Fundamentally, the physical shell of a keyboard just doesn't hold any appeal to me. I care about switches, layouts and caps.

I've been in a lot of technically inclined hobbies that have 'camps'. Photography, various flavours of rockclimbing and mountaineering, road and mountain biking, personal computing. The older and more experienced I've gotten, the more accepting I've been of the ideas in different camps. But this fancy case thing is still beyond me, and I suspect it always will be.

The impression that I get is that this section of enthusiast market tends towards the more impressionable, younger and possibly less career-established. Dropping a grand or whatever it is on an extremely well designed... aluminum case and carefully presented packaging... seems weird to me. I guess I could afford it- the cost of one is easily dwarfed by monthly outgoings on school fees and mortgages, but everything these cases, and similar offerings, are about are completely tangential to what I enjoy about mechanical keyboards.

I agree. I could care less about the package it came in or the thoughtful pins included to help me build the board. I'd pay top dollar for a well designed case with top notch feel and sound but there's so many designers in the community that fits that qualification, which got me wondering on this topic.

Looking a the currently running build thread for a keykult case, it does look like it's well ahead of any other group buy, standard layout boards. It's the only one I've seen with internal cable routing, for starters, I was puzzled that aluminium cases usually don't have such a basic feature.

I'm not sure we're actually on the same page... Not only do I not care about the disposable packaging, I don't care about the casework at all beyond a certain easily achievable level. My fingers don't touch the case when typing, and a metal case appears to present a risk of static electricity, something I've never had to think about with plastic cases. From a longevity point of view, I've got a couple of plastic cases from the mid 80s still going strong. I consider aluminium cases to be form over function.

I can appreciate nice physical builds with things like bicycle frames (I've owned lugged steel and custom titanium), but I don't touch my keyboard case. The keykult case on the other thread though, that does seem the best example of a boutique TKL case that I've seen online. I can kind of see why if someone was going to obsess about casework, they would like that product.

Offline thestateofmay

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Re: Why the obsession with Keycult?
« Reply #13 on: Sun, 26 July 2020, 02:47:39 »
I don't know, they might be fantastic people, the cases might have incredible attention to detail. Fundamentally, the physical shell of a keyboard just doesn't hold any appeal to me. I care about switches, layouts and caps.

I've been in a lot of technically inclined hobbies that have 'camps'. Photography, various flavours of rockclimbing and mountaineering, road and mountain biking, personal computing. The older and more experienced I've gotten, the more accepting I've been of the ideas in different camps. But this fancy case thing is still beyond me, and I suspect it always will be.

The impression that I get is that this section of enthusiast market tends towards the more impressionable, younger and possibly less career-established. Dropping a grand or whatever it is on an extremely well designed... aluminum case and carefully presented packaging... seems weird to me. I guess I could afford it- the cost of one is easily dwarfed by monthly outgoings on school fees and mortgages, but everything these cases, and similar offerings, are about are completely tangential to what I enjoy about mechanical keyboards.

I agree. I could care less about the package it came in or the thoughtful pins included to help me build the board. I'd pay top dollar for a well designed case with top notch feel and sound but there's so many designers in the community that fits that qualification, which got me wondering on this topic.

Looking a the currently running build thread for a keykult case, it does look like it's well ahead of any other group buy, standard layout boards. It's the only one I've seen with internal cable routing, for starters, I was puzzled that aluminium cases usually don't have such a basic feature.

I'm not sure we're actually on the same page... Not only do I not care about the disposable packaging, I don't care about the casework at all beyond a certain easily achievable level. My fingers don't touch the case when typing, and a metal case appears to present a risk of static electricity, something I've never had to think about with plastic cases. From a longevity point of view, I've got a couple of plastic cases from the mid 80s still going strong. I consider aluminium cases to be form over function.

I can appreciate nice physical builds with things like bicycle frames (I've owned lugged steel and custom titanium), but I don't touch my keyboard case. The keykult case on the other thread though, that does seem the best example of a boutique TKL case that I've seen online. I can kind of see why if someone was going to obsess about casework, they would like that product.

I mean I think we are on the same page somewhat. The case work is important but unless it contributes to the external aesthetics, the feel/sound, or the functionality, I don't care about it. I'd feel less for a board if I have to duct tape the wires or something but it's still an A+ in my mind if everything else is perfect. I do see the attention to details in that keycult build log but there's no "feature" or "component" that makes me feel it would contribute to my experience *using* the board, but you could argue that the build is part of the overall experience.

An example of what I'm talking about is the Lodestone that's in IC right now, which uses a magnetic mounting system. Assuming it won't be a goof board and it actually contributes to the typing experience, it's something that'd give me a "WOW" factor that'd convince to me drop $900 on it. With Keycult I don't see any of that, even if it was just a small detail in the design like thin screws or something. It's a completely "standard" high-end board and the "attention to details" seems to be the packaging and the engraving finishes.

Offline jamster

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Re: Why the obsession with Keycult?
« Reply #14 on: Sun, 26 July 2020, 03:16:12 »
I don't think most buyers want cutting edge tech, or novel ideas. They want something nice to touch, or my cynically, something that photographs well.

The Lodestone is a fairly infrequent example of something that's really different from the usual cookie cutter 60-65% or TKLs. It's novel. Personally, I'm impressed. At the same time, it's high risk. It uses an untested mounting system, it might turn out to have flaws. Is it really going to be $900 or is that just a comparison to Keykult? Totally nuts if it's really going to be that much.

Looking at normal GBs, for 'normal' boards, there's also huge risk- lots of them are run by a single person rather than a team. Often without a strong track history for delivery. There are lots of instances where buys go through multi year delays, have quality issues, or don't get delivered at all.

I haven't followed them at all, by my impression from a quick scan is that Keykult has a track history for delivery, a reputation for quality. IMO that justifies some kind of premium and stands it out from most ground buys.

Personally, when I've looked at these $500 cases from individuals who are doing this as a hobby, I think a reasonable risk premium would be 30-50% for delays or non-delivery. So that $500 board is more like $660-750. Everyone asseses risk differently though.
« Last Edit: Sun, 26 July 2020, 03:22:10 by jamster »


Offline jAngeles

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Re: Why the obsession with Keycult?
« Reply #16 on: Sun, 26 July 2020, 12:45:03 »
I think the reasoning is already explained well in the name.

lol this

Jokes aside I don't see it either! For the pricier keyboards, I've found that more people are fascinated by RAMA and I can see why. Most of their keyboards look way cooler and the uncommon layouts that they do strike me more so I'm not really sure with the Keycult fans see but if the owners are happy then o well right?