Author Topic: Do Others Prefer Playing Games on Original Hardware?  (Read 1773 times)

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Offline Kavik

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Do Others Prefer Playing Games on Original Hardware?
« on: Mon, 08 February 2021, 12:24:08 »
Even though for modern games, I far prefer playing on PC, I find myself unable to appreciate or maintain interest in emulated or remastered versions of games and really only enjoy playing them on original hardware even if the performance is far worse.

For some games, like Turok, Turok 2, and Doom 64, I actually get a motion sickness headache when playing the PC ports for more than 30 minutes. Something about their high frame rates hurts my eyes and eventually nauseates me. Playing the old 15-30 FPS versions on N64 doesn't have this effect on me. Modern games don't do this to me either (except "The Talos Principle" for some reason).

However, the main reason is that playing on original hardware has a certain charm to it that is lost when playing emulated or remastered versions even without upscaled graphics. Exceptions are updates to old PC games that provide compatibility with current OSes; although, I do keep a not-updated WinXP machine around to play old PC games.

Do others feel this way too? Or does it not make a difference to you?
« Last Edit: Mon, 08 February 2021, 16:29:21 by Kavik »
Maybe they're waiting for gasmasks and latex to get sexy again.

The world has become a weird place.

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Do Others Prefer Playing Games on Original Hardware?
« Reply #1 on: Mon, 08 February 2021, 13:22:15 »
Original hardware is more than the game itself.  For example, Halo 1.

The xbox (og) has terrible frame rates, terrible resolution, the autoaim which was very heavy handed on halo was crap,    But you add it all together, it still FEEELS SPECIAL.

Halo 1 on PC, both the original and now the Anniversary remaster are better,   but they play differently and do not possess the MAGIX that was the christmas morning, when 2 people got on a warthog, and it was like a lightning bolt exploded in your mind.

Go back to golden eye,  it was even MORE CRAP,  but you plug in that N64 RAM UPgrade pak, ,and it's like Yeeeeeeaaa, secrete agent.

Offline Kavik

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Re: Do Others Prefer Playing Games on Original Hardware?
« Reply #2 on: Mon, 08 February 2021, 15:08:28 »
Original hardware is more than the game itself.  For example, Halo 1.

The xbox (og) has terrible frame rates, terrible resolution, the autoaim which was very heavy handed on halo was crap,    But you add it all together, it still FEEELS SPECIAL.

Halo 1 on PC, both the original and now the Anniversary remaster are better,   but they play differently and do not possess the MAGIX that was the christmas morning, when 2 people got on a warthog, and it was like a lightning bolt exploded in your mind.

Go back to golden eye,  it was even MORE CRAP,  but you plug in that N64 RAM UPgrade pak, ,and it's like Yeeeeeeaaa, secrete agent.


I thought about getting the Masterchief collection on Steam to play it on PC (the original actually did have a PC release, but I never played that), thinking mouse and keyboard might change it up enough to be worth it, but, as you said, the magic would be gone.

I'm currently playing through Goldeneye on 00 Agent, and it's what made me think of this actually. The terrible frame rate is mostly what makes the game challenging. It affects aiming and rate of fire drastically, and it's worse with smoke and multiple enemies shooting. The *game* itself is actually not very hard.

Maybe they're waiting for gasmasks and latex to get sexy again.

The world has become a weird place.

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Do Others Prefer Playing Games on Original Hardware?
« Reply #3 on: Mon, 08 February 2021, 16:05:24 »

Yea without modding up the video output on N64, the frame rate and blurriness makes it confusing as to what's happening.

Offline noisyturtle

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Re: Do Others Prefer Playing Games on Original Hardware?
« Reply #4 on: Mon, 08 February 2021, 16:17:07 »
Yes. I always try to play on OG hardware using OG media.
That is the way.

Yes, FGPA, Flash/rom carts, and emulation have come a very long way and at this point are nearly indecipherable from OG hardware. Yes disk rot is a real thing slowly making some forms dead (like floppy discs, good luck finding working ones these days)

But still, nothing brings me that same feeling as clicking in a disc or pushing down a cart and playing like it played decades ago.
It's all but put a stop to my Neo Geo collecting, haven't picked up a 'new' AES game is years :(

Offline alertArchitect

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Re: Do Others Prefer Playing Games on Original Hardware?
« Reply #5 on: Mon, 08 February 2021, 17:40:22 »
Oh, there's definitely a certain charm and feeling you get running a game or other piece of software on the hardware it was originally built for. I personally have had a GameCube for a while because there are certain games I prefer to play with the old hardware, and for the fact that it was my first ever console growing up. I'm even looking into retro PC building for older games I never got to experience in their heyday, but still want something approximating the true feel of them, even if it's just their campaigns and not their multiplayer - the Quake series, for example, or the original Unreal. And that's not even getting into the games that are notoriously difficult to emulate, if someone wished to go that path. Compatibility issues, visual bugs, framerate desyncs, control oddities that weren't present in the original, all things that you'll probably have to deal with at some point if you emulate more than a few games.

However, that doesn't mean emulation doesn't have a place in this sort of thing. There are rare games that are difficult to find that you may wish to experience in some form or another, or are prohibitively expensive due to the aforementioned rarity or just being such good games that it's hard to find someone with a physical copy who'd be willing to part with it, or even use it to preserve the original format the game was in at release. Castlevania: Symphony of the Night comes to mind, for the latter category, and any Pokemon game that's no longer in production would certainly qualify for the former. Or, you yourself are a collector, and don't mind dealing with a moderately buggy emulator to keep your games in the best condition possible for the purposes of preservation, only actually using the disk or cartridge for special occasions. All completely reasonable and understandable explanations for using an emulator over original hardware, and all perfectly fine as long as you aren't pirating a game that the devs can still see money from. For example, if you emulate Pokemon Red, a game that's not been in production in almost 25 years, is ridiculously expensive, and all the money from buying the legitimate physical copy would go to a secondhand seller?

tl;dr: It depends on the situation. If it's not prohibitively expensive or hard to get, and I can accommodate it, original hardware is great for older titles. But if it's a ridiculous ask to get the game, due to price, rarity, or both, there's no harm in emulating it as long as you're not stealing from devs.

Offline Shapey Fiend

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Re: Do Others Prefer Playing Games on Original Hardware?
« Reply #6 on: Tue, 09 February 2021, 08:32:02 »
There's definitely something to be said for a CRT television. They have a particular look and sound that you can't capture with a flatscreen. Also the response time.

I find my interest in playing old games can be spotty in general. Been toying with the idea of getting an FGPA Mister for the last few months and they're expensive so I'm unsure because I may not use it enough. The thing is I have a Mega Drive and flashcart already and I don't use it a ton because I played the games to death 30 years ago, and revisited a lot of them again via emulation over the last 20. I've only limited gaming time and I tend to do that on offbeat modern games that are providing new experiences.

Offline Kavik

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Re: Do Others Prefer Playing Games on Original Hardware?
« Reply #7 on: Tue, 09 February 2021, 11:58:48 »
There's definitely something to be said for a CRT television. They have a particular look and sound that you can't capture with a flatscreen. Also the response time.

I find my interest in playing old games can be spotty in general. Been toying with the idea of getting an FGPA Mister for the last few months and they're expensive so I'm unsure because I may not use it enough. The thing is I have a Mega Drive and flashcart already and I don't use it a ton because I played the games to death 30 years ago, and revisited a lot of them again via emulation over the last 20. I've only limited gaming time and I tend to do that on offbeat modern games that are providing new experiences.

I am getting concerned about CRTs. One of the two I have left was really dark the last time I used it, and now I don't have the remote, so it's essentially dead to me. My other one is still good, but it's small. I'm not sure where I'll source another decent one when it inevitably dies.

I have felt largely the same about old games myself. I played them a lot in their day and I revisited them somewhat regularly; however, I mostly just screwed around when playing them, so I never beat most of them. I have renewed my interest in some of them by trying to focus on one at a time and beat it once and for all. I've been watching some speed running videos as well, which trivializes some parts that I thought were really hard when I was younger, for example "Control" on Goldeneye. I thought defending Natalya when she was hacking the Goldeneye satellite was impossible, but, if I stand in a certain area, I can just shoot all the guards as they funnel towards the stairs before they even get to Natayla. I used to be sick of this game because I had so thoroughly burnt myself out on it by just playing with all cheats on and shooting unlimited bad guys.
Maybe they're waiting for gasmasks and latex to get sexy again.

The world has become a weird place.

Offline alertArchitect

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Re: Do Others Prefer Playing Games on Original Hardware?
« Reply #8 on: Tue, 09 February 2021, 12:59:34 »
I have felt largely the same about old games myself. I played them a lot in their day and I revisited them somewhat regularly; however, I mostly just screwed around when playing them, so I never beat most of them. I have renewed my interest in some of them by trying to focus on one at a time and beat it once and for all. I've been watching some speed running videos as well, which trivializes some parts that I thought were really hard when I was younger, for example "Control" on Goldeneye. I thought defending Natalya when she was hacking the Goldeneye satellite was impossible, but, if I stand in a certain area, I can just shoot all the guards as they funnel towards the stairs before they even get to Natayla. I used to be sick of this game because I had so thoroughly burnt myself out on it by just playing with all cheats on and shooting unlimited bad guys.

That's entirely understandable. Personally, I'm only 20, so some of those older games I never got to experience in their heyday, and my enjoyment comes from trying these older games I never really got to enjoy back in their prime. Not to mention I'm a bit of a enthusiast when it comes to older software and hardware, though I couldn't explain why I find it so interesting and enjoyable to learn about. I just do.

And that approach to beating games you only ever messed around in sounds like a fun way to actually finish games you never did! I've actually been doing the same with games I never finished when I was younger, either because I would get frustrated when they were too hard for me or because I just never stuck with the story and would mess around for hours instead of doing anything else in the game. And, as for speedrunning, if you think it'd be fun to attempt, it's certainly a great way to add an extra level of challenge, depth, and replayability to games! It's definitely not for everyone, but if the different tricks and strategies look fun and enjoyable for you, definitely give it a shot. Personally, I find it fun just to use speedrun strategies in normal gameplay from time to time just to see what going for normal completion with those strategies could be like.

No matter what you do, or how you decide to do it, just have fun! That's the most important part!  ;D

Offline yui

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Re: Do Others Prefer Playing Games on Original Hardware?
« Reply #9 on: Wed, 10 February 2021, 01:35:27 »
to be honest i like to fix old hardware, not really play on it, it is why i have a PS2, PSx, Wii, Atari ST and a few PC older than me. the only thing is that they sit there doing nothing because once they are fixed i do not really do anything with them...
vi vi vi - the roman number of the beast (Plan9 fortune)

Offline alertArchitect

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Re: Do Others Prefer Playing Games on Original Hardware?
« Reply #10 on: Wed, 10 February 2021, 09:15:46 »
to be honest i like to fix old hardware, not really play on it, it is why i have a PS2, PSx, Wii, Atari ST and a few PC older than me. the only thing is that they sit there doing nothing because once they are fixed i do not really do anything with them...

You could always flip them! If it's the repair and restoration you like, but not the games or systems themselves, you can always make a little extra money on the side by fixing up old hardware you buy for cheap and selling it as refurbished.

Offline yui

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Re: Do Others Prefer Playing Games on Original Hardware?
« Reply #11 on: Wed, 10 February 2021, 10:00:07 »
to be honest i like to fix old hardware, not really play on it, it is why i have a PS2, PSx, Wii, Atari ST and a few PC older than me. the only thing is that they sit there doing nothing because once they are fixed i do not really do anything with them...

You could always flip them! If it's the repair and restoration you like, but not the games or systems themselves, you can always make a little extra money on the side by fixing up old hardware you buy for cheap and selling it as refurbished.
i thought about it, and to be honest, i'd rather give them to someone who i know will be interested than selling them,or once covid blows over go back to playing with friends on them
vi vi vi - the roman number of the beast (Plan9 fortune)

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Do Others Prefer Playing Games on Original Hardware?
« Reply #12 on: Wed, 10 February 2021, 10:06:55 »
to be honest i like to fix old hardware, not really play on it, it is why i have a PS2, PSx, Wii, Atari ST and a few PC older than me. the only thing is that they sit there doing nothing because once they are fixed i do not really do anything with them...

You could always flip them! If it's the repair and restoration you like, but not the games or systems themselves, you can always make a little extra money on the side by fixing up old hardware you buy for cheap and selling it as refurbished.

NEVERRR......  must own ALLL THE 486

Offline yui

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Re: Do Others Prefer Playing Games on Original Hardware?
« Reply #13 on: Wed, 10 February 2021, 10:20:26 »

NEVERRR......  must own ALLL THE 486

i have one but you will not get it, for one shipping would be 5 times the price of the machine and it has exactly my age :) i am more in search of PCXT class machine now or at most recent AT class, but those are expensive even on non working order here...
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Offline alertArchitect

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Re: Do Others Prefer Playing Games on Original Hardware?
« Reply #14 on: Wed, 10 February 2021, 10:21:54 »
i thought about it, and to be honest, i'd rather give them to someone who i know will be interested than selling them,or once covid blows over go back to playing with friends on them

That's entirely fair. You didn't mention that you played with friends on them (obviously in the before times), so I thought that your interest was purely in the restoration. My apologies for the assumption! And as for giving them away, that's rather nice of you. I could never pass up some extra cash on something I don't actively use that's actually worth something.

Offline Findecanor

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Re: Do Others Prefer Playing Games on Original Hardware?
« Reply #15 on: Wed, 10 February 2021, 10:57:51 »
When emulating 8-bit and 16-bit consoles, the sum of emulation, USB input and the LCD TV together could potentially add one or more frames of lag, which with some reaction-time-focused games is enough that it would make the experience noticeably different for some very sensitive gamers who had become masters of these games on original hardware and CRTs.
This is an issue mostly with LCD TVs which delay the image by several frames for doing image processing. With some TVs this has been noticed even with modern consoles, which has led some TV manufacturers to add a faster "game mode".
With LCD screens for computers, which don't have as much lag, I don't think this is much of a problem.

That applies only to 2D games though. I think that early 3D games were often more forgiving when it came to controls and timing because they often ran at low speed (and best-effort speed, not frame-locked) to begin with.
« Last Edit: Wed, 10 February 2021, 12:24:20 by Findecanor »
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Offline noisyturtle

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Re: Do Others Prefer Playing Games on Original Hardware?
« Reply #16 on: Wed, 10 February 2021, 19:51:03 »
The retro game market is basically over now. The pandemic has driven prices far beyond reasonable. Pair that with moronic uninformed consumers flushed with money and too much time on their hands, you get a scalper-centric consistently rising unpopping bubble of flat out retarded prices.

Just to put it into perspective: Prices have risen for retro games and hardware more over the last 18 months than they have over the last 11 years combined.

So **** people who blindly pay exorbitant prices with no reference or research. **** sellers who list things for more than they are worth because they know some idiot with money will need to scratch a collecting itch. And especially **** resellers who buy out entire inventories and stores to flip the product for more money, I actually hope you die in a horrid accident. Really just ****ing die. If you are a scalper you should heavily consider crawling into the woods like an old dog and dying alone curled up under a tree somewhere.

Offline yui

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Re: Do Others Prefer Playing Games on Original Hardware?
« Reply #17 on: Thu, 11 February 2021, 01:56:17 »
i thought about it, and to be honest, i'd rather give them to someone who i know will be interested than selling them,or once covid blows over go back to playing with friends on them

That's entirely fair. You didn't mention that you played with friends on them (obviously in the before times), so I thought that your interest was purely in the restoration. My apologies for the assumption! And as for giving them away, that's rather nice of you. I could never pass up some extra cash on something I don't actively use that's actually worth something.
it is what you get when you do neither value money or oneself time and are both lazy and hate negotiation.
i just hope that if i ever have kids they will be into that, because else i am wasting a bunch of space for not much right now :)
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Offline aleck

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Re: Do Others Prefer Playing Games on Original Hardware?
« Reply #18 on: Wed, 17 February 2021, 01:00:10 »
Yes, it just adds to the experience (and maybe a bit of nostalgia), I'm a Wii kid and as of recently I have put several care into my childhood Wii, replacing the disk drive, cleaning it, etc... I just need a CRT to make that 480i Composite shine and make my Mario Kart Wii experience just as good as I remember it being.

Offline noisyturtle

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Re: Do Others Prefer Playing Games on Original Hardware?
« Reply #19 on: Wed, 17 February 2021, 02:10:27 »
SONY KV-36FV310  :eek: :-*

Offline yui

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Re: Do Others Prefer Playing Games on Original Hardware?
« Reply #20 on: Wed, 17 February 2021, 03:06:20 »
thank you NT, you found the model number without me having to move mine to find it :) although i though trinitrons were best for Sony consoles (PS1 and 2) but that others should be optimized for the shadowmask type of distortion? or are trinitron just best and i would not bother moving the other large old CRT i have (got both for free :)) (i had planed to plug the sonys to the trinitron and the wii to the shadowmask, because i got the space, and free TV, and a free wii)
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Offline noisyturtle

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Re: Do Others Prefer Playing Games on Original Hardware?
« Reply #21 on: Wed, 17 February 2021, 03:26:06 »
thank you NT, you found the model number without me having to move mine to find it :) although i though trinitrons were best for Sony consoles (PS1 and 2) but that others should be optimized for the shadowmask type of distortion? or are trinitron just best and i would not bother moving the other large old CRT i have (got both for free :)) (i had planed to plug the sonys to the trinitron and the wii to the shadowmask, because i got the space, and free TV, and a free wii)

The KV-FV310 series was really the last of it's kind, the final full fledged CRT swansong before treading into hybrid territory with things like the WEGA Hi-Scan series. It provided dedicated 480i w/ auto 16:9 and a 10-bit 3D ATSC comb filter w/ a PVM grade high voltage regulator that all but eliminates bloom and color bleed.
It's the best ****ing 36in glass crt you can get - flat out.

My dream tv

Offline yui

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Re: Do Others Prefer Playing Games on Original Hardware?
« Reply #22 on: Wed, 17 February 2021, 03:49:38 »
thank you NT, you found the model number without me having to move mine to find it :) although i though trinitrons were best for Sony consoles (PS1 and 2) but that others should be optimized for the shadowmask type of distortion? or are trinitron just best and i would not bother moving the other large old CRT i have (got both for free :)) (i had planed to plug the sonys to the trinitron and the wii to the shadowmask, because i got the space, and free TV, and a free wii)

The KV-FV310 series was really the last of it's kind, the final full fledged CRT swansong before treading into hybrid territory with things like the WEGA Hi-Scan series. It provided dedicated 480i w/ auto 16:9 and a 10-bit 3D ATSC comb filter w/ a PVM grade high voltage regulator that all but eliminates bloom and color bleed.
It's the best ****ing 36in glass crt you can get - flat out.

My dream tv
i guess i was right to tell my cousin to not throw it away then :) when he asked me on the phone i only knew it was a sony CRT, when i saw it in person it was this, although i do not have the remote, annoyingly, or the matching cabinet
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Offline TacticalCoder

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Re: Do Others Prefer Playing Games on Original Hardware?
« Reply #23 on: Thu, 25 February 2021, 08:23:17 »
A different kind of original hardware... I don't play games anymore except for the fact that once in a while I play really oldschool arcade stuff, like "Elevator Action", "Buster Bros" (aka "Pang!") or the almighty "Robotron 2084".


I play them on my real vintage arcade cab from the mid-eighties, complete with its CRT. Now it's not always 100% original hardware as some of the game I don't have the original PCB (but I've got a few bootleg PCBs).


And some games like Robotron 2084: it's nearly impossible to get an old machine working so I play it on the arcade cab, but emulated (Raspberry PI + Pi2JAMMA adapter to hook the Pi to the cab).


A game like Robotron 2084 has very specific inputs: no buttons, you play with two joysticks (one joystick to move your character, the other joystick to fire in the direction you want). It's an amazing game (with a cult following) and, well, you pretty much have to run it on a real arcade cab or, at the very least, to have a control panel with two good joysticks to be able to play it.


What is incredible when playing old 2D games on real arcade hardware is how smooth some of them are: they "only" run at 60 Hz but there's no lag between your inputs and the response on the screen. There's no USB+this+that+then delay of anything. It's "click" on the joystick's microswitch and next frame you see the result of your action.


So even though it's very old hardware, it feels incredibly smooth.
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