Author Topic: Tuned switches  (Read 650 times)

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Offline 10centNickle

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Tuned switches
« on: Thu, 25 March 2021, 15:27:24 »
Yes I'm asking again.  I'm very annoying.  Is there a way to make switches with different pitches without having them feel different?  If so, how?

Offline Faceman76

  • Posts: 46
  • Location: Long Island
Re: Tuned switches
« Reply #1 on: Thu, 25 March 2021, 16:54:15 »
Tuning the enclosure, most importantly the case and possibly the switch itself. Although there is minimal room on the switch enclosure without creating interference.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

TKC 1800, Crystal Box Navy, Sprit 100g

Offline Leopard223

  • Posts: 61
Re: Tuned switches
« Reply #2 on: Thu, 25 March 2021, 19:12:43 »
Changing the housing could create issues with tolerance, MX switches are generally the same shape but often has different sizings. 
Also leafs has different specs, changing housing could change the feeling and changing leads could bring a new set of issues.

Offline Leslieann

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Re: Tuned switches
« Reply #3 on: Thu, 25 March 2021, 22:02:33 »
Yes I'm asking again.  I'm very annoying.  Is there a way to make switches with different pitches without having them feel different?  If so, how?
Yes.
Do it electronically. Years ago some keyboards had speakers that would click and QMK supports this.


As for doing it mechanically, no. Being mechanical, anything effecting the sound is going to effect the feel unless you engineer an entirely new switch and connect them to a hammer/clapper of some sort (a.k.a. a piano). There is no way your going to make this happen in an MX switch without changing feel. Electronic is pretty much the only option.
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Offline 10centNickle

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Re: Tuned switches
« Reply #4 on: Thu, 25 March 2021, 23:27:12 »
Yes I'm asking again.  I'm very annoying.  Is there a way to make switches with different pitches without having them feel different?  If so, how?
Yes.
Do it electronically. Years ago some keyboards had speakers that would click and QMK supports this.


As for doing it mechanically, no. Being mechanical, anything effecting the sound is going to effect the feel unless you engineer an entirely new switch and connect them to a hammer/clapper of some sort (a.k.a. a piano). There is no way your going to make this happen in an MX switch without changing feel. Electronic is pretty much the only option.

Okay, what about keycaps?  Could I change thickness or smth to change pitch?  What if I combined them with plate, would it make a notable difference?

Offline Leslieann

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Re: Tuned switches
« Reply #5 on: Fri, 26 March 2021, 02:59:21 »
How are you going to mix and match different plastics and sets and still match? Either in profile, color, texture or shape.

Sure you can get a few different thicknesses, but no one company offers a set in 3 thicknesses and 3 types of plastic.
If you don't mind unicorn vomit, sure you can probably get two maybe 3 slight tone shifts but that's about it.
Novelkeys NK65AE w/62g Zilents/39g springs
More
62g Zilents/lubed/Novelkeys 39g springs, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps, Netdot Gen10 magnetic cable, pic
| Filco MJ2 L.E. Vortex Case, Jailhouse Blues, heavily customized
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Vortex case squared up/blasted finish removed/custom feet/paint/winkey blockoff plate, HID Liberator, stainless steel universal plate, 3d printed adapters, Type C, Netdot Gen10 magnetic cable, foam sound dampened, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps (o-ringed), Cherry Jailhouse Blues w/lubed/clipped Cherry light springs, 40g actuation
| GMMK TKL
More
w/ Kailh Purple Pros/lubed/Novelkeys 39g springs, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps, Netdot Gen10 Magnetic cable
| PF65 3d printed 65% w/LCD and hot swap
More
Box Jades, Interchangeable trim, mini lcd, QMK, underglow, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps, O-rings, Netdot Gen10 magnetic cable, in progress link
| Magicforce 68
More
MF68 pcb, Outemu Blues, in progress
| YMDK75 Jail Housed Gateron Blues
More
J-spacers, YMDK Thick PBT, O-rings, SIP sockets
| KBT Race S L.E.
More
Ergo Clears, custom WASD caps
| Das Pro
More
Costar model with browns
| GH60
More
Cherry Blacks, custom 3d printed case
| Logitech Illumininated | IBM Model M (x2)

Offline 10centNickle

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 24
Re: Tuned switches
« Reply #6 on: Fri, 26 March 2021, 11:27:37 »
How are you going to mix and match different plastics and sets and still match? Either in profile, color, texture or shape.

Sure you can get a few different thicknesses, but no one company offers a set in 3 thicknesses and 3 types of plastic.
If you don't mind unicorn vomit, sure you can probably get two maybe 3 slight tone shifts but that's about it.

Was thinking of making my own with an injection mold

Offline twohands

  • Posts: 23
Re: Tuned switches
« Reply #7 on: Fri, 26 March 2021, 12:53:11 »
How large of a pitch range are you aiming for? Changing thickness of the plate and caps will definitely change some aspects of the sound, but it may be barely noticeable. And if you're looking to turn your keyboard into like a piano keyboard that's a non-starter if you're only relying on plate/caps to generate the sound.

It's worth a sanity check that in a regular MX style keyboard, each key isn't identified with one pitch or even one sound (there's the stem depression, the bottom out, the upstroke and even the stem rattle). There's a lot of texture around even the cleanest build (what if you sometimes type with bottom out vs not?). It's not like a musical instrument in which these other mechanical aspects can be drowned out.

Offline 10centNickle

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 24
Re: Tuned switches
« Reply #8 on: Fri, 26 March 2021, 14:21:36 »
How large of a pitch range are you aiming for? Changing thickness of the plate and caps will definitely change some aspects of the sound, but it may be barely noticeable. And if you're looking to turn your keyboard into like a piano keyboard that's a non-starter if you're only relying on plate/caps to generate the sound.

It's worth a sanity check that in a regular MX style keyboard, each key isn't identified with one pitch or even one sound (there's the stem depression, the bottom out, the upstroke and even the stem rattle). There's a lot of texture around even the cleanest build (what if you sometimes type with bottom out vs not?). It's not like a musical instrument in which these other mechanical aspects can be drowned out.

About an octave at most.

Offline Faceman76

  • Posts: 46
  • Location: Long Island
Re: Tuned switches
« Reply #9 on: Fri, 26 March 2021, 16:05:53 »
Deaden the case, lube stabilizers, add feet and lube only the springs inside the switch.  I recommend Sorbothane for deadening and feet.  You'll be pleasantly surprised by the difference.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

TKC 1800, Crystal Box Navy, Sprit 100g

Offline Leslieann

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Re: Tuned switches
« Reply #10 on: Fri, 26 March 2021, 21:52:13 »
Was thinking of making my own with an injection mold

About an octave at most.
With a single mold you can't vary thickness (not without a VERY complex mold), meaning your only change is plastics. Not every plastic can be injected. Also there is limited room for thickness change because the switch housing has to go up into the cap and the stem has to come down the center and all has limits. Changing the profile to something with more material could work as it leaves you more space for plastic, but again, you still need a complex mold.

With caps we deal in minor pitch change, like from flat to sharp, maybe a different note at most, an octave is an absolutely massive jump, in general you would need to double the size of everything in the entire switch or completely different materials to achieve that.


Deaden the case, lube stabilizers, add feet and lube only the springs inside the switch.  I recommend Sorbothane for deadening and feet.  You'll be pleasantly surprised by the difference.
OP is trying to change individual keys, not all of them.
Novelkeys NK65AE w/62g Zilents/39g springs
More
62g Zilents/lubed/Novelkeys 39g springs, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps, Netdot Gen10 magnetic cable, pic
| Filco MJ2 L.E. Vortex Case, Jailhouse Blues, heavily customized
More
Vortex case squared up/blasted finish removed/custom feet/paint/winkey blockoff plate, HID Liberator, stainless steel universal plate, 3d printed adapters, Type C, Netdot Gen10 magnetic cable, foam sound dampened, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps (o-ringed), Cherry Jailhouse Blues w/lubed/clipped Cherry light springs, 40g actuation
| GMMK TKL
More
w/ Kailh Purple Pros/lubed/Novelkeys 39g springs, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps, Netdot Gen10 Magnetic cable
| PF65 3d printed 65% w/LCD and hot swap
More
Box Jades, Interchangeable trim, mini lcd, QMK, underglow, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps, O-rings, Netdot Gen10 magnetic cable, in progress link
| Magicforce 68
More
MF68 pcb, Outemu Blues, in progress
| YMDK75 Jail Housed Gateron Blues
More
J-spacers, YMDK Thick PBT, O-rings, SIP sockets
| KBT Race S L.E.
More
Ergo Clears, custom WASD caps
| Das Pro
More
Costar model with browns
| GH60
More
Cherry Blacks, custom 3d printed case
| Logitech Illumininated | IBM Model M (x2)

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Tuned switches
« Reply #11 on: Sat, 27 March 2021, 07:57:38 »
Yes.
Do it electronically. Years ago some keyboards had speakers that would click and QMK supports this.

As for doing it mechanically, no. Being mechanical, anything effecting the sound is going to effect the feel unless you engineer an entirely new switch and connect them to a hammer/clapper of some sort (a.k.a. a piano). There is no way your going to make this happen in an MX switch without changing feel. Electronic is pretty much the only option.

Overall,  Yamaha DGX670 digital piano,  It's just got so much value for the price.  The only thing it's missing is a Bosendorfer sound rom, but you can get that on PC if you hook it up.

Just can't get over how much programmability and features Yamaha is giving relative to the competition at that price. Stunned.

Offline treeleaf64

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Re: Tuned switches
« Reply #12 on: Thu, 01 April 2021, 12:09:04 »
Yes I'm asking again.  I'm very annoying.  Is there a way to make switches with different pitches without having them feel different?  If so, how?

Mechanical design ensures it will sound some way no matter what materials you use

you need to change the design of the switch to make it sound different

I dont recommend doing this unless you have extensive knowledge and experience

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