[IC] ePBT Timeless | Pre-orders Live

[imivanh]

Hey Everyone! Welcome to the IC of my first set, ePBT Timeless.

Please check out/fill out the IC Form.

This set is meant to reflect a timeless design aesthetic/language, which primary features are off-white, grey, and beige/wood tone colors.

GB IS LIVE! The Right PC is doing a 5% off all ePBT Timeless group buy products (applied at checkout) until Oct. 11th, 2021

Kits

Base Kit


Numpad Kit


Dark Alphas Kit


Spacebars Kit


40s Kit


International Kit


Color Comparison


Hex was used approximate the color and may not be 100% accurate to their Pantone/Ral/etc

Renders

Fuji 65




Rama U80


Desk Mats

Continuum - This desk mat was inspired by a certain show, a scene from the place that exists outside of time.

designed by fireanddarkness

Eternity - Heavenly clouds, a place that exists forever

designed by fireanddarkness

ePBT Timeless x The Deep Desk Mat (Light)

designed by Cat from Onomichi

ePBT Timeless x The Deep Desk Mat (Dark)

designed by Cat from Onomichi

Artisans

Metal Artisan Collab w/ AseroFoundry


CNC Brass Artisan Collab w/ THOK



Vendors

US - The Right PC

CA - Shockport Keyboards

UK - Prototypist

EU - Eloquent Clicks

Asia - KBDFans

OCE - DailyClack

India - StacksKB

PH - Klikity Shop


GB Date

October 4th - November 1st, 2021

Pricing


KBDFans will not be offering the metal artisans, so you can purchase them from The Right PC, they ship Worldwide. Make sure to only have the metal artisans in your cart on check out for cheapest shipping.

Collabs

Cat From Onomichi - Desk Mat

fireandarkness - Desk Mat

Yu.Keys - Artisan

MOZICaps - Artisan

Cantoclicks - Artisan

THOK - Artisan

Aserofoundry - Artisan 

Signature

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Code: [Select]

[url=https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=113610.0][img width=263 height=120]https://i.imgur.com/AM9sH0a.png[/img]][/url]

ePBT Timeless IC Form
Discord
Instagram


Special Thanks

The Right PC Team - helped me with kitting + overall positive support
dandruff - for the advice and sharing his experience as a designer
MechGroupBuys

Update Log

6/30/2021 - IC Posted, base kit renders fixed for F13 key, removed scooped F, J, and 5 keys
7/12/2021 - Manufacturer changed to Milkyways for PBT keycap manufacturing. Slight kitting update for 1 SKU for ease of manufacturing and pricing. No longer running a dark base kit due to manufacturer not able to produce reverse dye-sub keycaps reliably at this time.
7/20/2021 - Another change in manufacturer due to Milkways unable to produce reverse dye-sub for the colors we want at the moment. Samples have been ordered with another manufacturer to check quality and to determine if we go with another manufacturer and being able to produce some reverse dye-sub keys.
7/25/2021 - Based on IC, base kit mods are now changed to dark mods. Still awaiting reverse dye sub samples to come in to make sure quality is acceptable.
7/29/2021 - Currently in talks with ePBT, most likely we will be running this as an ePBT set.
8/3/2021 - Confirmed with ePBT this set can be made
8/6/2021 - Spacebar kit added
8/9/2021 - Kits finalized, added 40s and international kit. Removed basic 40s from base kit. Color comparison render added. Rama U80 render added.
8/11/2021 - Quotes expected from ePBT in about a month. EU vendor confirmed
8/18/2021 - Vendors Finalized, Collab section updated.
8/30/2021 - First desk mat revealed, created by fireanddarkess
9/4/2021 - ePBT Timeless x The Deep Desk Mat collab reveal
9/7/2021 - Collab update
9/11/21 - GB date finalized!
9/12/21 - Slight change to the pantone color, the chip I received did not meet my expectations of the color, so I changed to a different pantone that better matches the set
9/15/21 - Final Desk Mat Design added
9/16/221 - Desk mat render overhaul, pricing announced, added OCE Vendor
9/21/21 - Metal Artisan Collab with AseroFoundry revealed!
9/26/21 - CNC Brass Artisan Collab with THOK revealed! Pricing updated for some vendors.
10/4/21 - GB is live until November 2nd, 2021!

To Do

- Move basic 40s to base kit
- Move accent bars to separate spacebar kit Accent bars remain in base kit
- novelties(?) Decided to not have novelties. Will be creating matching desk mats instead for the theme.
- Render updates
- Matching Desk Mats
- Collabs
- Vendors
- Waiting on Quotes and Pricing
- Finalize GB Date

[MIGHTY CHICKEN]

The light base is just bow...
Consider removing it as two bases is not a really good idea for GMK

[JohnYYZ]

Looks pretty good, GLWIC

^^ Also same thoughts on having two base kits.

[pararch]

I would take a second look at the 40's kit, as there seems to be a lot missing for optimal coverage for GMK kitting. You're missing quite a few R4 keys like 1.25u shift, and all the 1u text keys. I'd also consider breaking the spacebar kit out from 40's.
Also would not run 2 base kits for GMK. The dark kit gives me GMK Nines vibes.

GLWIC

[IOVERCALLHISTIOCYTES]

I like CP white (hagoromo for oblivion, Olivia, ursa) more than WS1 (minimal) and always wanted CP white mods.

Do a color comparison w oblivion mod grey, N9, and the dark dark grey from GMK lux if you can.

[hali]

this feels ridiculously low effort

[imivanh]

The light base is just bow...
Consider removing it as two bases is not a really good idea for GMK

Gotcha, I will definitely put that into consideration.

Looks pretty good, GLWIC

^^ Also same thoughts on having two base kits.

Thank you! I will definitely consider removing one of the base kits.

I like CP white (hagoromo for oblivion, Olivia, ursa) more than WS1 (minimal) and always wanted CP white mods.

Do a color comparison w oblivion mod grey, N9, and the dark dark grey from GMK lux if you can.

Will get right on that, thank you for the input!

this feels ridiculously low effort

What about this makes it feel ridiculously low effort? Would love to show you more effort if you have any suggestions on how I can do so!

[doggo1dance]

this feels ridiculously low effort

quite ironic coming from someone that doesn't provide suggestions to improve the set as a whole 

[stevenT]

I would like to see yellow on black mod in same kit with white alphas, gonna be next big hit after Olivia

[Altephor]

F13 in renders but no F13 in the kits?

[nvh2092]

I'd to see novelties, consider making a kit which has gold (patone 911c) novelties about the design philosophy so it can be used for both bases.

[imivanh]

F13 in renders but no F13 in the kits?

Good catch, I'll get the kit rendering fixed asap. There will be a F13 Key in base kit

Edit: base kit renders fixed for F13 key

[MIGHTY CHICKEN]

What about this makes it feel ridiculously low effort? Would love to show you more effort if you have any suggestions on how I can do so!

It's basically just bow/wob,
Kitting is a mess with no normal f and j
The extras kit forces accent bars and is missing other important stuff like 2.25u and 2u bars, everything mostly just looks like stock krk etc.

[hayasaka]

looks classy

[dandruff]

What about this makes it feel ridiculously low effort? Would love to show you more effort if you have any suggestions on how I can do so!

It's basically just bow/wob,
Kitting is a mess with no normal f and j
The extras kit forces accent bars and is missing other important stuff like 2.25u and 2u bars, everything mostly just looks like stock krk etc.

I share some of your views such as no normal f and j while there is a normal 5 key in numpad (the inconsistency bothers me, and I'd rather just remove scooped completely.

but I'm going to have to disagree regarding bow/wob and low effort.
I think this has everything people are looking for in a starting IC. Colors/renders/theme and they build upon it. Especially for his first keycap post, imagine flaming someone's kitting issues as low effort.

As for colors, first off, you can't "own" a colorway, and the white in this case is CP rather than the usual WS1 and WS2. As for the dark kit, white is nowhere lol.

I think it's a fine start, and just needs to fix some kitting issues (like adding basic 40s to base kit if 40s kit is going to be kitted like that (and possibly add novelties (?))).

Edit: Also... to my knowledge and personal experience... when has 2 base kit been a bad idea with GMK...?

[imivanh]

What about this makes it feel ridiculously low effort? Would love to show you more effort if you have any suggestions on how I can do so!

It's basically just bow/wob,
Kitting is a mess with no normal f and j
The extras kit forces accent bars and is missing other important stuff like 2.25u and 2u bars, everything mostly just looks like stock krk etc.

I share some of your views such as no normal f and j while there is a normal 5 key in numpad (the inconsistency bothers me, and I'd rather just remove scooped completely.

but I'm going to have to disagree regarding bow/wob and low effort.
I think this has everything people are looking for in a starting IC. Colors/renders/theme and they build upon it. Especially for his first keycap post, imagine flaming someone's kitting issues as low effort.

As for colors, first off, you can't "own" a colorway, and the white in this case is CP rather than the usual WS1 and WS2. As for the dark kit, white is nowhere lol.

I think it's a fine start, and just needs to fix some kitting issues (like adding basic 40s to base kit if 40s kit is going to be kitted like that (and possibly add novelties (?))).

Edit: Also... to my knowledge and personal experience... when has 2 base kit been a bad idea with GMK...?

Thanks for the feedback dandruff! I will change the scooped keys to regular keys first, and work on fixing the extras kit. It is so hard to make everyone happy with the kitting haha, since it's impossible to fit everything into the base kit. Looks like putting basic 40s into the base kit is the way to go, and move accent bars and arrow keys to a separate kit.

[sup3r170va]

I quite like the CP set. Suggest you move the basic 40s kit into the base. Consider white/dark grey bars instead of the cream ones.
A hangul or hiragana sublegends child kit would be nice.

[chamoy_MXC]

I like this. For the basic 40s support on base you just have to add  1.75 R2 backspace, 1.5 enter and 1.25 tab both R3. That covers minivan and you will have a lot of forties happy with it.

[Neely_12]

I feel like the white base could use extra character. I understand its supposed to be simple, but bow with gold accents isn't anything crazy. Also a r3 pg up and a r4 pg dn would be appreciated if added in the base.

[hali]

What about this makes it feel ridiculously low effort? Would love to show you more effort if you have any suggestions on how I can do so!

A lot of areas don't cut it for me. Light base is very similar to Stormtrooper, just with icon mods, slightly darker legends, and an accent colour. Dark base is similar to other yellow on black/grey options. Interior design is mentioned but nothing really reflects that. To me it seems like nothing is really done to set this set apart from others, or to even convey the theme of interior design as well as it could have. IMO novelties should have been released alongside IC, because from what I see, there's nothing very timeless here.

[iinko_mk]

both base kits look like something that already exist. the light base is just bow with orange accents (i think geekark ran something like this only a few months ago).

The dark base looks like a slew of other sets. We have solaria, spirit, and inukuma just to name a few.

You might also want to revist the 40s kit, it has really minimal support that doesn't do much. Clumping it with spacebars just makes it more expensive, and people buying spacebars will have to spend an extra 20 USD at least to get alice support at all. (base kit doesn't have an extra 2.25u shift)

[Cylent]

imo kitting can be fixed pretty easily, although 40s is a bit more difficult, but can also be done, so not a massive deal

I agree with hali and iinko on there already being very similar sets, and that without novelties the theme really doesn't come through for me.

tl;dr - This IC has been put in the oven, but not for long enough. Please put it back in the oven so I can evaluate whether this set is something I want to purchase.

[Zetina]

I personally think that you should offer some tipe of accent kit instead of the white base, but the set looks nice GLWIC

[kiwoli]

I feel this IC needed to launch with some banger novelties/deskmats, the timeless theme is not strong enough based on the accent colour alone.

Using an IC form to gauge interest in the separate base kits is fine, just need to know when to fold one of them.
The most recent case is GMK Cobalt when the alternate base kit had to be cancelled due to poor sales during GB window.

[phxrbn]

Maybe add a darker 'neutral' tone for the dark kit, like a deeper brown. Think of it as white + birch/one and black + walnut. Maybe could work. Novelties like a rama with woodgrain/knot would be nice.

[HappyB0T]

GMK Sixes and GMK Art have more style for sets that are simple. Although those sets are simple there is a design aesthetic to compliment them. I really feel that this set is positioned between a BOW / WOB set and those sets referenced above. What make those sets successful is their attention to detail and setting a specific goal. Some people have commented that GMK Boho is well designed but at the same time conservative in its approach. I would use the word - safe in it's colorway. I feel that this set fall short of communicating a vision like Boho does.

If you have a vision - what would the novelties be?? Even if it was to support a design standard there should be at least something to convince people that this is worth a 1.5 year wait. I am not seeing it.

Even the most basic of BOW & WOB sets have something that differentiate them from others. Maybe it is a more modern or retro take on choices and kitting.

[HappyB0T]

GMK Sixes and GMK Art have more style for sets that are simple. Although those sets are simple there is a design aesthetic to compliment them. I really feel that this set is positioned between a BOW / WOB set and those sets referenced above. What make those sets successful is their attention to detail and setting a specific goal. Some people have commented that GMK Boho is well designed but at the same time conservative in its approach. I would use the word - safe in it's colorway. I feel that this set fall short of communicating a vision like Boho does.

If you have a vision - what would the novelties be?? Even if it was to support a design standard there should be at least something to convince people that this is worth a 1.5 year wait. I am not seeing it.

Even the most basic of BOW & WOB sets have something that differentiate them from others. Maybe it is a more modern or retro take on choices and kitting.

Please consider changing the name of the "extras" kit - this is confusing in the context of a keyboard GB. Extension | 40s | Alt kit all are better at describing the kit.

GLWIC

[bigdonnerz]

I think the colours are nice and don't agree that it needs a vision or concept behind it to differentiate it from other kits. There's also ready so much duplication of colours and ideas, it's easy to reduce most sets to "it's just X but with an added Y".

My only feedback would be that the kitting looks like it might result in this being expensive. I think you might be better off picking one of the two for the first run of this. Personally, I prefer the BOW set but it's up to you.

GLWIC!

[imivanh]

Thanks for the feedback! I am working on finalizing the changes for the kitting and hopefully it’ll make more people happy about it. I agree it is definitely easy to categorize sets into other existing sets. Something is always the shade of another thing, there are only so many basic colors.

[DeMechanica]

This set is meant to reflect a timeless interior design aesthetic, featuring off-white, grey, and beige/wood tone color accents.

There will be two base kits:

A Light Base to represent the traditional timeless interior design, which features white "walls" with grey and beige/wood tones;
and a Dark Base, for those who like dark mode (my personal favorite).

How does an off yellow cream colour or a dark grey represent beige / wood? Why offer a dark mode? What sets this apart? What makes this set unique? What makes it worth the investment from vendors? How is it worth the money of those who buy it? I’m completely unconvinced by the answers to these questions. I encourage you to try to answer those types of questions with a more thoughtful design.

And finally, how is this set “timeless”? Even if we take away the set colours not matching your description, the description isn’t even a timeless style, if I understand what you were describing correctly. The naming honestly reminds me of the GOAT stabilisers.

If the colours are just colours you like, scrap the pretence and just call it GMK Imivanh, don’t take away a great name from a design that would perfectly fit the name. Just tell it like it is and be up front about it being a design you want and so you’re running a GB for it to make it affordable for you. I think people wouldn’t question it nearly as much. I know I’d appreciate it.

Genuinely, good luck with the IC, I hope you take this as it’s intended, which is very clear (perhaps too clear and therefore quite harsh) constructive criticism.

[hrmmm]

I dunno, I like it. I find it simple, clean, and overall pleasant.

Some people are trying to get you to answer all these deeper questions, but honestly, no one is forcing anyone to buy it. If a vendor doesn't think it's worth the investment, then they won't do it. If you don't like the design, don't buy it. That being said, if there are some things you can do that'll increase its appeal to a wider audience, sure, go ahead and do it. But ultimately it's your design, so stick to your guns.

[imivanh]

This set is meant to reflect a timeless interior design aesthetic, featuring off-white, grey, and beige/wood tone color accents.

There will be two base kits:

A Light Base to represent the traditional timeless interior design, which features white "walls" with grey and beige/wood tones;
and a Dark Base, for those who like dark mode (my personal favorite).

How does an off yellow cream colour or a dark grey represent beige / wood? Why offer a dark mode? What sets this apart? What makes this set unique? What makes it worth the investment from vendors? How is it worth the money of those who buy it? I’m completely unconvinced by the answers to these questions. I encourage you to try to answer those types of questions with a more thoughtful design.

And finally, how is this set “timeless”? Even if we take away the set colours not matching your description, the description isn’t even a timeless style, if I understand what you were describing correctly. The naming honestly reminds me of the GOAT stabilisers.

If the colours are just colours you like, scrap the pretence and just call it GMK Imivanh, don’t take away a great name from a design that would perfectly fit the name. Just tell it like it is and be up front about it being a design you want and so you’re running a GB for it to make it affordable for you. I think people wouldn’t question it nearly as much. I know I’d appreciate it.

Genuinely, good luck with the IC, I hope you take this as it’s intended, which is very clear (perhaps too clear and therefore quite harsh) constructive criticism.

I appreciate the criticism. Thank you for your comments

[scoopbb]

i like the light set. the tone of the criticism is pretty insane. maybe thematically i can see their point but def not from, the low effort. even if it was just "white and yellow", id still like it and wouldn't consider it low effort. 

[holer]

Damn this thread has been harsh 

I like the dark base, and it scratches the same itch as the dark version of ePBT Antarctic Emperor for me. And even if they are similar, then they are different profiles and the switch from blue to black is quite significant.

I don't mind the lack of novelties - imo too many sets have token novelties included that does nothing for the theme. So maybe asking for suggestions for novelties is a commendable approach.

All in all, I don't think this is low effort at all, and best of luck 

[imivanh]

i like the light set. the tone of the criticism is pretty insane. maybe thematically i can see their point but def not from, the low effort. even if it was just "white and yellow", id still like it and wouldn't consider it low effort. 

Thank you, I appreciate that you can see this is not low effort. I feel I put I lot of work into creating what I thought was my vision. There are definitely valid criticisms that I have and will improve on the set, but it does hurt a bit for people to scream "low effort" at me.

Damn this thread has been harsh 

I like the dark base, and it scratches the same itch as the dark version of ePBT Antarctic Emperor for me. And even if they are similar, then they are different profiles and the switch from blue to black is quite significant.

I don't mind the lack of novelties - imo too many sets have token novelties included that does nothing for the theme. So maybe asking for suggestions for novelties is a commendable approach.

All in all, I don't think this is low effort at all, and best of luck 

Thank you for your kind words! I'm glad there are those who don't disvalue my work or think it is "low effort". I did put a good amount of thought and effort into this and it does suck that some do not understand my vision for the set. There are valid criticisms, which I will definitely improve on them where needed. I thought IC was a place to share the idea and make changes according to criticism, but some seem to want a fully fleshed out and completed project immediately.

[mymeepo]

Don't get discouraged. The dark base set definitely has potential and it is clear that you put in effort into this IC.

[holer]

[...]

Thank you for your kind words! I'm glad there are those who don't disvalue my work or think it is "low effort". I did put a good amount of thought and effort into this and it does suck that some do not understand my vision for the set. There are valid criticisms, which I will definitely improve on them where needed. I thought IC was a place to share the idea and make changes according to criticism, but some seem to want a fully fleshed out and completed project immediately.

Cheers Let me take this chance to give you some less useful feedback - you went for the "wrong" iso support (and here wrong means the one I don't use) with R4 "< >" instead of R4 "\ |". 

[SwirlCables]

very clean and nice! 

[conternecticus]

If there's no separate 40s kit then please add minimum support for 40% in the base kit.

[pondscum]

Looks good - can go with Daily Clack for an OCE vendor

[Cylent]

You switched to ePBT but kept GMK kitting with 3 key support for 40s? Please just kit for ePBT.

[salgiza]

Now that you are going with ePBT, please consider adding kittings for Norde and South (or even FR/BE) layouts. There are not that many elegant layouts with South & FR layouts, so hopefully that should give you a boost to meet the MOQ.

Same thing with 40s, Mac modifiers, etc. Hopefully there is no rush to get the GB out, and the more kittings that you add, the more interest that you will gather. So, having a MOQ just for the base kit, you should probably take the chance to add as extra kittings as you feel comfortable doing/think that make sense.

In addition to that, I agree with others that the IC will have more chances of having a successful GB if you manage to add some novelties that match the spirit of the theme. Maybe timeless designs? (I’m thinking lamps, furniture, maybe buildings). Art Deco glyphs would also match the color theme, I think.

Anyway, it’s your set, and it already looks quite nice as it is!

[solomonshv]

would you be able to tell us why was the manu changed from GMK?

I like CP white (hagoromo for oblivion, Olivia, ursa) more than WS1 (minimal) and always wanted CP white mods.

Do a color comparison w oblivion mod grey, N9, and the dark dark grey from GMK lux if you can.

i was thinking about a color comparison with GMK Cafe.

I dunno, I like it. I find it simple, clean, and overall pleasant.

Some people are trying to get you to answer all these deeper questions, but honestly, no one is forcing anyone to buy it. If a vendor doesn't think it's worth the investment, then they won't do it. If you don't like the design, don't buy it. That being said, if there are some things you can do that'll increase its appeal to a wider audience, sure, go ahead and do it. But ultimately it's your design, so stick to your guns.

it appears that the designer IS the vendor. i will surprised if this gets proxies.

[stevenT]

very nice set, does Ebpt has same thickness as GMK?

[bball2]

I really like it! Definitely in for a base set

[gloomycloud]

Please consider a spacebar kit with 2.25u, 2.75u, and 2x 3u spacebars

[imivanh]

would you be able to tell us why was the manu changed from GMK?

I like CP white (hagoromo for oblivion, Olivia, ursa) more than WS1 (minimal) and always wanted CP white mods.

Do a color comparison w oblivion mod grey, N9, and the dark dark grey from GMK lux if you can.

i was thinking about a color comparison with GMK Cafe.

I dunno, I like it. I find it simple, clean, and overall pleasant.

Some people are trying to get you to answer all these deeper questions, but honestly, no one is forcing anyone to buy it. If a vendor doesn't think it's worth the investment, then they won't do it. If you don't like the design, don't buy it. That being said, if there are some things you can do that'll increase its appeal to a wider audience, sure, go ahead and do it. But ultimately it's your design, so stick to your guns.

it appears that the designer IS the vendor. i will surprised if this gets proxies.

Decided not to go with GMK due to the insane wait times. They really work on increasing production.

As for color comparison, I will work on rendering one with GMK Cafe as requested. In the meantime if you're interested, we are using Pantone 911 C, GMK N9, and GMK CP for our colors.

I am a vendor, but will definitely be having other regional proxies, not going to force people to only be able to purchase from us. Currently working on finalizing the regional proxies.

I really like it! Definitely in for a base set

Thank You!

Please consider a spacebar kit with 2.25u, 2.75u, and 2x 3u spacebars

Done! Spacebar kit added.

[N3VERM0R3]

Really liking this set. Good luck!

[denibhoxha]

yet another epbt set with 5 side dye sub

[imivanh]

Update: Final Kitting revealed. 40s and International kits have been added due to request, and basic 40s were removed from base kit. Updated thread with color comparison to GMK Cafe and JTK Suited Assassin. Final things to do are:

1. Finalize the rest of the regional vendors
2. Finish Desk Mats
3. Finalize Collabs
4. Get Quotes