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Offline ShakeR

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First Mechanical Keyboard Guide
« on: Sat, 02 February 2013, 23:35:29 »
My best (beta) effort for the often asked geekhack question...

What is the first mechanical keyboard I should buy?

http://mechanicalkeyboards.com/first_mechanical_keyboard.php



-------

Yes, I know many recommendations are out of stock.  Sorry about this!  We're working on adding stock, and I'm working on adding a 'show in stock only' feature. I didn't want to automatically limit options to what we had in at the time.

I also know that not all brands are represented (cough filco...) BUT that's not my fault. I tried!

Bug reports are much appreciated! Suggestions will be met with extreme graciousness or hostility. :D
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Offline jabar

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Re: First Mechanical Keyboard Guide
« Reply #1 on: Sat, 02 February 2013, 23:37:55 »
9/10 of the suggestions are out of stock  :p
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Leopold FC660C - Max Keyboard Nighthawk X8 - Ducky DK9008 Shine II 78 Edition - Noppoo Choc Mini - Cherry G80-2100HDD - Cherry G80-8113HDPUS - Plu-M87 - Leopold FC700R Ergo Clears - Deck Legend Frost 105 - IBM F PC Keyboard - IBM M 122 (Lexmark) - Apple Extended Keyboard II

Phantom 7bit

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: First Mechanical Keyboard Guide
« Reply #2 on: Sat, 02 February 2013, 23:45:28 »
not so sure on the keycap question... that one removes alot of choices, because you can buy a cheaper board and separate keycaps and come up with the SAME cost as the boards that come with "stock pbt caps"

So,, maybe work that into your matrix. ;D
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Offline ShakeR

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Re: First Mechanical Keyboard Guide
« Reply #3 on: Sat, 02 February 2013, 23:46:44 »
Quote from: jabar on Sat, 02 February 2013, 23:37:55
9/10 of the suggestions are out of stock  :p

Blasted!

I need to add the feature sooner than I expected.

Can you post your result URL or PM it to me?

So much for sleep tonight...
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Offline rowdy

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Re: First Mechanical Keyboard Guide
« Reply #4 on: Sat, 02 February 2013, 23:59:36 »
Brilliant!
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"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

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Ị̸͚̯̲́ͤ̃͑̇̑ͯ̊̂͟ͅs̞͚̩͉̝̪̲͗͊ͪ̽̚̚ ̭̦͖͕̑́͌ͬͩ͟t̷̻͔̙̑͟h̹̠̼͋ͤ͋i̤̜̣̦̱̫͈͔̞ͭ͑ͥ̌̔s̬͔͎̍̈ͥͫ̐̾ͣ̔̇͘ͅ ̩̘̼͆̐̕e̞̰͓̲̺̎͐̏ͬ̓̅̾͠͝ͅv̶̰͕̱̞̥̍ͣ̄̕e͕͙͖̬̜͓͎̤̊ͭ͐͝ṇ̰͎̱̤̟̭ͫ͌̌͢͠ͅ ̳̥̦ͮ̐ͤ̎̊ͣ͡͡n̤̜̙̺̪̒͜e̶̻̦̿ͮ̂̀c̝̘̝͖̠̖͐ͨͪ̈̐͌ͩ̀e̷̥͇̋ͦs̢̡̤ͤͤͯ͜s͈̠̉̑͘a̱͕̗͖̳̥̺ͬͦͧ͆̌̑͡r̶̟̖̈͘ỷ̮̦̩͙͔ͫ̾ͬ̔ͬͮ̌?̵̘͇͔͙ͥͪ͞ͅ

Offline ShakeR

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Re: First Mechanical Keyboard Guide
« Reply #5 on: Sun, 03 February 2013, 00:23:58 »
'In stock only' button added!
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Offline jabar

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Re: First Mechanical Keyboard Guide
« Reply #6 on: Sun, 03 February 2013, 00:24:55 »
Quote from: ShakeR on Sat, 02 February 2013, 23:46:44
Blasted!

I need to add the feature sooner than I expected.

Can you post your result URL or PM it to me?

So much for sleep tonight...
That was before the feature. It seems to work well now!

Just need to make the output grid a bit nicer then it'll be just fine.

e: get some sleep! it's like 1:30am on a Sunday
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Leopold FC660C - Max Keyboard Nighthawk X8 - Ducky DK9008 Shine II 78 Edition - Noppoo Choc Mini - Cherry G80-2100HDD - Cherry G80-8113HDPUS - Plu-M87 - Leopold FC700R Ergo Clears - Deck Legend Frost 105 - IBM F PC Keyboard - IBM M 122 (Lexmark) - Apple Extended Keyboard II

Phantom 7bit

Offline ShakeR

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Re: First Mechanical Keyboard Guide
« Reply #7 on: Sun, 03 February 2013, 00:28:42 »
Quote from: jabar on Sun, 03 February 2013, 00:24:55
Quote from: ShakeR on Sat, 02 February 2013, 23:46:44
Blasted!

I need to add the feature sooner than I expected.

Can you post your result URL or PM it to me?

So much for sleep tonight...
That was before the feature. It seems to work well now!

Just need to make the output grid a bit nicer then it'll be just fine.

e: get some sleep! it's like 1:30am on a Sunday

So says the guy who's still awake ;)
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Offline ShakeR

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Re: First Mechanical Keyboard Guide
« Reply #8 on: Sun, 03 February 2013, 00:30:45 »
Quote from: tp4tissue on Sat, 02 February 2013, 23:45:28
not so sure on the keycap question... that one removes alot of choices, because you can buy a cheaper board and separate keycaps and come up with the SAME cost as the boards that come with "stock pbt caps"

So,, maybe work that into your matrix. ;D

Added the word 'stock' to key cap question.  Should help clarify.  Thanks for your input!

edit: I also made sure to mention this in the 'results explained' section for the key cap question.
« Last Edit: Sun, 03 February 2013, 00:32:57 by ShakeR »
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Offline Nunez

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Re: First Mechanical Keyboard Guide
« Reply #9 on: Sun, 03 February 2013, 02:39:56 »
It's broken. I don't want any of the suggested keyboards :(

That being said, well done! Looks like it'd work quite well for a first buyers guide.


Edit: I said no to backlit and yet every (I think) result were backlit keyboards? Not sure what happened there.
« Last Edit: Sun, 03 February 2013, 02:42:41 by Nunez »
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Offline laffindude

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Re: First Mechanical Keyboard Guide
« Reply #10 on: Sun, 03 February 2013, 05:41:20 »
I own 4 of 6 top results (3 of them are Pures ;)). 5th is on the way, and 6th is fullsized Ducky of which I have no interest in.

My recommendation is changing the numpad question to include whether or not they want a board smaller than tenkeyless. Although I love my Pures, it isn't for everyone.
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Offline rootwyrm

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Re: First Mechanical Keyboard Guide
« Reply #11 on: Sun, 03 February 2013, 05:50:14 »
It's genuinely broken for me. Clicking doesn't reliably give results.

My results

Results are miles off, too. Noise not a concern, it recommended Reds and Browns - should be recommending Blues. Especially for mix typing/gaming and spreadsheet work.
Also inappropriately high placing on the DK9087G2 TKLs.
KBT ONE should definitely be well above KBT ONI, unless you know something I don't about the differences there? Both are PBT. Most troubling of all though is that there were zero blues recommended. Not a one. Not even an Alps Green. :(
« Last Edit: Sun, 03 February 2013, 05:53:34 by rootwyrm »
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"I remain convinced I am the only person alive who has successfully worn out an IBM Model M mechanically."
Daily Drivers: Adesso 625 (NPKC PBT / Kailh Blue), Rosewill RK9000V2 (KC PBT / MX Brown), 1994 Model M13, Sun Type4, and the rare IBM 1394540.

Offline AKIMbO

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Re: First Mechanical Keyboard Guide
« Reply #12 on: Sun, 03 February 2013, 08:58:14 »
This is a pretty cool little advanced keyboard search disguised as a guide.  I like it!
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Offline ShakeR

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Re: First Mechanical Keyboard Guide
« Reply #13 on: Sun, 03 February 2013, 12:58:10 »
Quote from: rootwyrm on Sun, 03 February 2013, 05:50:14
It's genuinely broken for me. Clicking doesn't reliably give results.

My results

Results are miles off, too. Noise not a concern, it recommended Reds and Browns - should be recommending Blues. Especially for mix typing/gaming and spreadsheet work.
Also inappropriately high placing on the DK9087G2 TKLs.
KBT ONE should definitely be well above KBT ONI, unless you know something I don't about the differences there? Both are PBT. Most troubling of all though is that there were zero blues recommended. Not a one. Not even an Alps Green. :(

Originally, Blues not included for any type of gaming.  I just changed it so Blues do get suggested for mixed use.

Re: One vs ONI, I'm working on a keyboard rating based on reviews / sales, but that isn't active yet so differences like this aren't factored yet.
« Last Edit: Sun, 03 February 2013, 13:05:19 by ShakeR »
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Offline ShakeR

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Re: First Mechanical Keyboard Guide
« Reply #14 on: Sun, 03 February 2013, 13:03:07 »
Quote from: Nunez on Sun, 03 February 2013, 02:39:56
It's broken. I don't want any of the suggested keyboards :(

That being said, well done! Looks like it'd work quite well for a first buyers guide.


Edit: I said no to backlit and yet every (I think) result were backlit keyboards? Not sure what happened there.

Keep in mind that it will offer the best possible keyboards even if not all of them fall perfectly inline with all 10 answers.  It should show you which answers line up with each keyboard - you can hover your mouse over the Green Checks and Red X's to see what does and doesn't match a certain suggestion.
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Offline IvanIvanovich

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Re: First Mechanical Keyboard Guide
« Reply #15 on: Sun, 03 February 2013, 13:08:34 »
Good job. Seems to have worked well for me, reccomending me Pokers and Pures primarily with Ducky and CM tenkeyless for the rest with red and black switches.
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Offline FoxWolf1

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Re: First Mechanical Keyboard Guide
« Reply #16 on: Sun, 03 February 2013, 13:13:28 »
When I tell it I want backlit-compatible caps, it counts that against Deck, since they're not ABS. >.<

And it seems to really, really like recommending Ducky...
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Offline nsrexler

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Re: First Mechanical Keyboard Guide
« Reply #17 on: Sun, 03 February 2013, 13:57:16 »
Quote from: FoxWolf1 on Sun, 03 February 2013, 13:13:28
And it seems to really, really like recommending Ducky...

No big surprise there, Ducky is one of the biggest brands that MK sells.
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Offline rootwyrm

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Re: First Mechanical Keyboard Guide
« Reply #18 on: Sun, 03 February 2013, 15:07:48 »
Quote from: ShakeR on Sun, 03 February 2013, 12:58:10
Quote from: rootwyrm on Sun, 03 February 2013, 05:50:14
It's genuinely broken for me. Clicking doesn't reliably give results.

My results

Results are miles off, too. Noise not a concern, it recommended Reds and Browns - should be recommending Blues. Especially for mix typing/gaming and spreadsheet work.
Also inappropriately high placing on the DK9087G2 TKLs.
KBT ONE should definitely be well above KBT ONI, unless you know something I don't about the differences there? Both are PBT. Most troubling of all though is that there were zero blues recommended. Not a one. Not even an Alps Green. :(

Originally, Blues not included for any type of gaming.  I just changed it so Blues do get suggested for mixed use.

Re: One vs ONI, I'm working on a keyboard rating based on reviews / sales, but that isn't active yet so differences like this aren't factored yet.

Ahha, that would do it then, definitely. And the One vs. ONI should have happened due to the layout (104 vs TKL) IMO. Believe me, I am finding the lack of numpad ... difficult when I'm dealing with my spreadsheets. ;/
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"I remain convinced I am the only person alive who has successfully worn out an IBM Model M mechanically."
Daily Drivers: Adesso 625 (NPKC PBT / Kailh Blue), Rosewill RK9000V2 (KC PBT / MX Brown), 1994 Model M13, Sun Type4, and the rare IBM 1394540.

Offline ShakeR

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Re: First Mechanical Keyboard Guide
« Reply #19 on: Mon, 04 February 2013, 15:58:42 »
Quote from: FoxWolf1 on Sun, 03 February 2013, 13:13:28
When I tell it I want backlit-compatible caps, it counts that against Deck, since they're not ABS. >.<

And it seems to really, really like recommending Ducky...

It's hard making everything concise and simple - keep in mind it's for a first time buyer, so having the PBT cap answer say something like "Some of these will work with backlit too!" concisely is really tough.

The main reason I used 'Backlit ready' as the first item for ABS keys is I was worried there would be a lot of people saying "Yes, I want backlit" and then picking "Durable, expensive keycaps" (PBT), this would pretty much limit all the top choices to Deck.  There are some exceptions like this that do improperly skew the results.

Regarding Ducky being favored: Until we get our 'keyboard ranker' up and running, TIED results are ordered by our favorite brands. This only applies to tied results though.  Even our least favorite brand will outrank a Ducky if it fits more of the criteria specified.  (8/10 vs 7/10)




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Offline uJalled

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Re: First Mechanical Keyboard Guide
« Reply #20 on: Mon, 04 February 2013, 16:18:29 »
Wow that's pretty neat. I never found that
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Offline BucklingSpring

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Re: First Mechanical Keyboard Guide
« Reply #21 on: Mon, 04 February 2013, 18:48:29 »
I don't like question #8 and #10 - The rest is great.

8) Describe your preference in stock key caps.
Undecided / Don't Care
Backlit ready, less expensive, and less durable. More expensive and more durable.

- As other said... Take out the Backlit ready.

10) Not including 'modifier' keys like CTRL and Shift, how many keys will you need to press simultaneously?
Undecided / Don't Care
Never more than 3. Never more than 4. Never more than 6. Never more than 20. All of them.

Lol at never more than 20 and all of them. I mean cmon. We know this is about KRO, but anything over 10 doesn't make much a difference.

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Boards I own, click ->
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Ducky x2 (9008G2 Pro PBT/MX Green and Mini MX Red), Matias x2 (QP and Mini QP Dampened ALPS), Topre RealForce x4 (87U 55g/Digilog case, 103U-UW & 104UG High-Profile x2), Filco Majestouch x2 (TKL MX Blue & V2 AI 104 MX Blue), IBM-M x2 (BS & RD), Unicomp-M x5 (BS black on black x2, BS Ivory x2, QT Ultra-Classic), Deck x4 (Legend MX Black & MX Clear, Hassium & Francium w/ MX Brown), DAS III (MX Blue), KBT Pure Pro 60% (MX Red), NMB-RT8256CW+ x2 (black space invader), XArmor U9BL-S (MX Brown) given for free to someone I hate, CM X2 (Trigger/MX Green + Storm TKL/NovaTouch), TVS GOLD (MX Blue) and a many many more (NMB, DELL, MS, ATT, KeyTronic, Etc...)

Offline BucklingSpring

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Re: First Mechanical Keyboard Guide
« Reply #22 on: Mon, 04 February 2013, 18:53:43 »
I'm surprised you didn't ask about WPM's to figure what kind of polling rate would be good.

Something to highlight those 1000Hz keyboards :-)

1000Hz - Yet another LoL, - what was wrong with 1Khz?
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In memory of smallfry 1996-2013
Boards I own, click ->
More
Ducky x2 (9008G2 Pro PBT/MX Green and Mini MX Red), Matias x2 (QP and Mini QP Dampened ALPS), Topre RealForce x4 (87U 55g/Digilog case, 103U-UW & 104UG High-Profile x2), Filco Majestouch x2 (TKL MX Blue & V2 AI 104 MX Blue), IBM-M x2 (BS & RD), Unicomp-M x5 (BS black on black x2, BS Ivory x2, QT Ultra-Classic), Deck x4 (Legend MX Black & MX Clear, Hassium & Francium w/ MX Brown), DAS III (MX Blue), KBT Pure Pro 60% (MX Red), NMB-RT8256CW+ x2 (black space invader), XArmor U9BL-S (MX Brown) given for free to someone I hate, CM X2 (Trigger/MX Green + Storm TKL/NovaTouch), TVS GOLD (MX Blue) and a many many more (NMB, DELL, MS, ATT, KeyTronic, Etc...)

Offline LifeIsGooD2

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Re: First Mechanical Keyboard Guide
« Reply #23 on: Mon, 04 February 2013, 19:45:36 »
pretty cool
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Offline IvanIvanovich

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Re: First Mechanical Keyboard Guide
« Reply #24 on: Mon, 04 February 2013, 19:51:51 »
Because 1000Hz > 1kHz, it's a bigger number duh. :))
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Offline rootwyrm

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Re: First Mechanical Keyboard Guide
« Reply #25 on: Mon, 04 February 2013, 20:32:18 »
Quote from: lysol on Mon, 04 February 2013, 19:51:51
Because 1000Hz > 1kHz, it's a bigger number duh. :))

That actually is the truth. It's pure marketing. Just like that "feature."
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"I remain convinced I am the only person alive who has successfully worn out an IBM Model M mechanically."
Daily Drivers: Adesso 625 (NPKC PBT / Kailh Blue), Rosewill RK9000V2 (KC PBT / MX Brown), 1994 Model M13, Sun Type4, and the rare IBM 1394540.

Offline LifeIsGooD2

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Re: First Mechanical Keyboard Guide
« Reply #26 on: Tue, 05 February 2013, 08:46:29 »
this is really cool
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Offline ShakeR

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Re: First Mechanical Keyboard Guide
« Reply #27 on: Tue, 05 February 2013, 08:55:40 »
Quote from: BucklingSpring
Never more than 3. Never more than 4. Never more than 6. Never more than 20. All of them.

Lol at never more than 20 and all of them. I mean cmon. We know this is about KRO, but anything over 10 doesn't make much a difference.


You'd be surprised how many people ask about NKRO when deciding what to buy. I don't think it matters either, but I give the people what they ask for. :)

See poll results here http://mechanicalkeyboards.com
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Offline ShakeR

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Re: First Mechanical Keyboard Guide
« Reply #28 on: Tue, 05 February 2013, 08:56:43 »
Quote from: LifeIsGooD2 on Tue, 05 February 2013, 08:46:29
this is really cool

Thanks! :) It took a while to develop.
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Offline iri

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Re: First Mechanical Keyboard Guide
« Reply #29 on: Tue, 05 February 2013, 14:17:13 »
why on earth do people need backlighting?
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Offline 1839cc

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Re: First Mechanical Keyboard Guide
« Reply #30 on: Tue, 05 February 2013, 18:21:12 »
Quote from: ShakeR on Tue, 05 February 2013, 08:55:40
Quote from: BucklingSpring
Never more than 3. Never more than 4. Never more than 6. Never more than 20. All of them.

Lol at never more than 20 and all of them. I mean cmon. We know this is about KRO, but anything over 10 doesn't make much a difference.


You'd be surprised how many people ask about NKRO when deciding what to buy. I don't think it matters either, but I give the people what they ask for. :)

See poll results here http://mechanicalkeyboards.com

NKRO is a great thing if you want to play certain REALLY OLD games with 2-4 people trying to use one keyboard at the same time. I can't think of too many other uses for it though.
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Offline FoxWolf1

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Re: First Mechanical Keyboard Guide
« Reply #31 on: Tue, 05 February 2013, 19:15:35 »
Quote from: 1839cc on Tue, 05 February 2013, 18:21:12
NKRO is a great thing if you want to play certain REALLY OLD games with 2-4 people trying to use one keyboard at the same time. I can't think of too many other uses for it though.

You don't even need two people to break six keys at once, just a game that is played entirely via keyboard-controls with any significant degree of complexity to them. Even with a game that's right on the border of exceeding the limit, you can occasionally break it if you accidentally catch both the key you're trying to press and the one next to it (not good if the one you're trying to press is the one that then gets omitted).

Now, once you get over 10KRO, then you start getting into the realm where you'll only hit the limit with multiple users...but in that case, your keyboard has already got to have some way around the normal 6KRO limit anyway.
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Offline ShakeR

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Re: First Mechanical Keyboard Guide
« Reply #32 on: Thu, 07 February 2013, 21:22:47 »
Quote from: FoxWolf1 on Tue, 05 February 2013, 19:15:35
Quote from: 1839cc on Tue, 05 February 2013, 18:21:12
NKRO is a great thing if you want to play certain REALLY OLD games with 2-4 people trying to use one keyboard at the same time. I can't think of too many other uses for it though.

You don't even need two people to break six keys at once, just a game that is played entirely via keyboard-controls with any significant degree of complexity to them. Even with a game that's right on the border of exceeding the limit, you can occasionally break it if you accidentally catch both the key you're trying to press and the one next to it (not good if the one you're trying to press is the one that then gets omitted).

Now, once you get over 10KRO, then you start getting into the realm where you'll only hit the limit with multiple users...but in that case, your keyboard has already got to have some way around the normal 6KRO limit anyway.

Yeah, I agree with this.  A keyboard only game seems to justify 10KRO+.  It's about the only thing I can come up with though.
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