Windows 8 hate?

[rowdy]

i'm assuming that's australian pricing?

it's never correct to use australian pricing to analyze a NA market (i honestly don't understand why software - no shipping - would be so much more expensive).

windows 7 was ~$150 for retail new price.  8 was ~$100.  upgrade prices were drastically cheaper.

Same for Apple prices then.  Which results in a similar comparison.

[tbc]

no, apple OSes are actually $20-$30 CND.  7/8 are $100-$150 CND.

[Elrick]

no, apple OSes are actually $20-$30 CND.  7/8 are $100-$150 CND.

Yep, we get shafted every way you see it.  It's sad that we get painted bullseye's on ourselves every time we want to buy anything related to PC/Software gear.

Although I bought my OEM Win 8 Pro when it was selling $120.00AUD when it was first released.  Good deal so I thought at the time.  Besides I never normally buy OS's for my PC's  .

But the price tag was attractive, like I would ever spend over $300 for any Software on this planet, because the moolah would of always gone towards a Motherboard or CPU directly.

[rowdy]

no, apple OSes are actually $20-$30 CND.  7/8 are $100-$150 CND.

Yep, we get shafted every way you see it.  It's sad that we get painted bullseye's on ourselves every time we want to buy anything related to PC/Software gear.

Although I bought my OEM Win 8 Pro when it was selling $120.00AUD when it was first released.  Good deal so I thought at the time.  Besides I never normally buy OS's for my PC's  .

But the price tag was attractive, like I would ever spend over $300 for any Software on this planet, because the moolah would of always gone towards a Motherboard or CPU directly.

Or a CC.  Singular.  Shipped from somewhere in the Rest of the World.

[Elrick]

Also another thing I noticed with Microsoft's OS8 Pro is that with four PC's (3 Intel and 1 AMD) have lost all Audio on them after time.  I suspect it's Realtek's Horror driver's that get dropped from the system, but don't know why (have used older and newer drivers still no change).

I miss the OLD days when you had your PC with Windows 2000 installed with the appropriate driver and guess what you got sound that stayed with the PC.  At no time did I ever lose audio or had problems from the sound system.  I know microsoft can design a better system but with the 8 it dropped it's rationale running after the tablet and phone Morons.  Who wouldn't use Microsoft on their devices ever.

So now stuck with deciding to go back to Windows 7 Pro or back further to Vista 64.  Amazing with Microsoft it's always one step forward and three steps back.  Now I feel like a gullible goon for forking out money for this P.O.S. software.  Stick to being a Pirate in the future, then you won't get the hollow feeling of being ripped off by that "evil" corporation.  YES I admit it's a pure money-sucking evil parasite, like the REST of them.

Another thing which ONLY win 8 seems to do is that svchost.exe keeps downloading something constantly when connected to the internet.  The horror is that I can't know what it's downloading because my BitDefender Pro says it's svchost.exe doing it but the system refuses to provide any further info.  Terrifying that everytime you use the net something gets downloaded without you authorizing it.  At least with 7 and Vista there was never that problem because nothing is downloaded unless you request it.

[IvanIvanovich]

If you have any live apps left, it's probably it. Updating news feeds, the weather, etc. constantly. You can also set those apps to on demand or something about being on a metered connection and they stop downloading in the background all day long.

[Elrick]

If you have any live apps left, it's probably it. Updating news feeds, the weather, etc. constantly. You can also set those apps to on demand or something about being on a metered connection and they stop downloading in the background all day long.

Thanks totally forgot about that.  Also killed off the STORE app rubbish.  BUT still have no sound/audio.  Will try and sort it out with Realtek because I feel that it's all related to that and nothing else.

[IvanIvanovich]

Oh, about the sound. I noticed that on fresh start sound is muted on my computer. I have a Creative soundcard, but am using the Microsoft HD audio driver it installed itself with since it actually works well for the most part unlike Creative's drivers. I hardly ever shutdown or reboot so it's not much of an issue for me (all I have to do is hit my mute key to unmute) but it could be doing that on yours too?

[Elrick]

I hardly ever shutdown or reboot so it's not much of an issue for me (all I have to do is hit my mute key to unmute) but it could be doing that on yours too?

Thanks for that, I had always wished it was something simple like that but unfortunately mute is off.  It's definitely the Realtek CRAP drivers.  I'm not the only one, lots of others have the same exact problem.

I might try tomorrow an older Auzentek X-Plosion audio card laying around and see if the system can bypass the horrid Realtek Junk and use the card instead.  I always wanted the PC to use what's available and adding a card usually creates problems (microsoft misery).  So much for trying to keep it minimal.

[oscillik]

I've run Windows 8 on three computers so far (will be running it on a fourth very soon when I get my ThinkPad come through next week), and I've had absolutely zero problems with audio.

I've also installed Windows 8 on two machines for my friend, and she hasn't had any audio problems either.

Also, you keep referring to the drivers being crap for Realtek, and then blaming Microsoft for this...

does not compute, really.

edit: also, as far as I can recall, Windows 8 uses the same sound system as was in Windows Vista and Windows 7

[Computer-Lab in Basement]

Yeah, I'd say Elrick's problem is a hardware issue, not so much a Windows issue... never had any issues installing drivers for any device in Windows 8 (even my ancient laser printer, which wasn't PnP in Win7, was PnP in Win8).

[Elrick]

Yeah, I'd say Elrick's problem is a hardware issue, not so much a Windows issue... never had any issues installing drivers for any device in Windows 8 (even my ancient laser printer, which wasn't PnP in Win7, was PnP in Win8).

Right this very minute "I HAVE AUDIO".  I just turned off my PC last night and today when I turned it back on - the sound is working.  Again, I have to say Realtek has always been a glitchy, nasty piece of hardware that all Motherboard manufacturers like to use.  Asus, Asrock, Gigabyte, MSI, Intel, Biostar, EVGA all use that horrible audio system.  Amazing how they all stick together when choosing only one audio component.  Besides I never liked to use Realtek but the available Creative and Asus PCI cards are no better when it comes to reliable sound.

Thanks to the professionals here on Geekhack for giving pointers on how to make WIN 8, a little better to use.  Just glad I removed all the APP store garbage and now my system no longer downloads on the sly  .

[ijprest]

Another thing which ONLY win 8 seems to do is that svchost.exe keeps downloading something constantly when connected to the internet.  The horror is that I can't know what it's downloading because my BitDefender Pro says it's svchost.exe doing it but the system refuses to provide any further info.  Terrifying that everytime you use the net something gets downloaded without you authorizing it.

Svchost.exe is the host process for services.  There are lots of services, but the one most likely downloading stuff would be "Windows Update" or the "Background Intelligent Transfer Service" (BITS)... it's used by Windows Update, but also by 3rd-party apps.  There's a new "Windows Store Service" in Win8 that I don't know much about... but it's also possible that some other piece of software you've installed has started a service that is downloading something.

If you run Process Explorer, it can tell you which services are associated with a particular instance of svchost.exe.  (Double-click the process and go to the 'Services' tab.)

At least with 7 and Vista there was never that problem because nothing is downloaded unless you request it.

BITS was definitely present and active in Win7/Vista/XP.

[rowdy]

SysInternals is fantastic!

Big vote here

But does it still work on Win 8?

[tbc]

the best thing you can do with windows 8 is to let IT manage all the drivers for you.  we've had almost a whole decade to learn windows vista and 7.  it's been barely a year with win8?  every popular os will have huge bug lists because of the sheer amount of users; that's the nature of software and will never change.

[tormentor]

I tried 8 recently and it didn't seem to bad. I use 7 now just because I prefer the sort of polished "legacy" feel however I think I may be doing a dual boot of SteamOS and just using windows for desktop/workstation use. With Mantle hopefully seeing wide adaptation and Nvidia (hopefully) not splitting the market with their own API I see PC gaming moving off Windows in the future. Which is beneficial for all of us, Windows is holding our hardware back and it's time to move on at least for certain tasks.

[oscillik]

SysInternals is fantastic!

Big vote here

But does it still work on Win 8?

yup SysInternals is compatible, so long as you're using the latest version of the suite. it is very awesome

[ijprest]

SysInternals is fantastic!

Big vote here

But does it still work on Win 8?

yup SysInternals is compatible, so long as you're using the latest version of the suite. it is very awesome

SysInternals was bought-out by Microsoft a few years back (when Mark Russinovich went to work for them)... so I figure they'll be kept up-to-date for the forseeable future.

The tools are all pretty great.  And Russinovich is a pretty smart guy... when I worked briefly on the Windows Kernel team (in the Win2k-XP days), they handed me his book as a primer on how the kernel worked.

[Tym]

7 > 8 was £15 about $25 :3

[heissler]

7 > 8 was £15 about $25 :3

Speaking for Germany, Upgrading was 15€ the first few hours after release due to a bugged upgrading offer for everyone without any kind of verification. The regular upgrading offer was open for everyone who bought a Win7 machine since 2012, valid until January 2013, upgrade cost 15€.

[Tym]

7 > 8 was £15 about $25 :3

Upgrading was 15€ the first few hours after release due to a bugged upgrading offer for everyone without any kind of verification. The regular upgrading offer was open for everyone who bought a Win7 machine since 2012, valid until January 2013, upgrade cost 15€.

Wasn't like that over here, I bought about 4 copies for £15, from retail stores (online) for about 2-3weeks after release.

EDIT: I'm not actually sure what you are saying, are you disagreeing with me or what :3

[heissler]

7 > 8 was £15 about $25 :3

Upgrading was 15€ the first few hours after release due to a bugged upgrading offer for everyone without any kind of verification. The regular upgrading offer was open for everyone who bought a Win7 machine since 2012, valid until January 2013, upgrade cost 15€.

Wasn't like that over here, I bought about 4 copies for £15, from retail stores (online) for about 2-3weeks after release.

EDIT: I'm not actually sure what you are saying, are you disagreeing with me or what :3

Nope, just stating that it was even cheaper here in Germany 

[Elrick]

I repair and work with a lot of legacy computer equipment, and having support for old-fashioned hardware is very important for me.

I suppose this question would be aimed at our Microsoft Fanatic (I mean that with great affection), you never mentioned about installing or using Windows XP 64, why is that?

I actually found an old XP 64 CD at work which was trapped in between some old magazines (yes, not Hustler or Playboy).  Figured I might take it home and install it on some older AMD gear.  I'm surprised that very little mention of this OS on here despite it being a further refinement to Win 2000.  I remembered using it about 12 years ago on a dual P3 and it really kicked ass back then.

The funny thing when you download drivers for your latest Nvidia 7000 series video card "Win XP 64" is still in there as a selection for your drivers.  Go figure that such an older OS still gets support in 2013  .

[microsoft windows]

It's been a while since I've seen Windows XP x64 in service, but I do recall there being issues with it. Haven't run it in a while.

[Oobly]

IIRC, XP 64 didn't have a lot of drivers available for the most part. A lot of gaming peripherals, for instance.

Anyway, I subscribe to the "skip every 2nd version" camp. In other words Windows for Workgroups (3.11), 98, XP, Win7 are the ones I found best. 95, ME, Vista, Win8 all kinda suck, IMO, for various reasons. Not sure where NT and 2000 fit, but they weren't really on my radar for my home desktop.

I truly cannot stand the Metro interface. Why would I want a touch-screen interface on my desktop? It just gets in the way.

[tufty]

Anyway, I subscribe to the "skip every 2nd version" camp. In other words Windows for Workgroups (3.11), 98, XP, Win7 are the ones I found best. 95, ME, Vista, Win8 all kinda suck, IMO, for various reasons.

The whole "every other release" thing is seeing patterns where none exist.  XP was (rightfully) hated on its release, the "tinkertoy" interface came in for particular vitriol but it was the BSoDs that did it for me.  MS had been getting pretty good at random crashes with earlier release, but XP pre SP2 showed signs of absolute, world-crushing, excellence.  Add to that its ability to be remotely pwnt by skr1pt k1ddi3z in seconds, and you had a "really good" operating system.

If you don't like Metro, don't pin your hopes on it getting better or going away.  MS are, I feel, currently utterly incapable of producing an OS their users want, that *anybody* wants - they are desperately trying to stay relevant in an increasingly non-MS world, and that means forcing something "different" down your throats.  They're in a really hard place at the moment - Operating systems are commodity items now, their effective value for the customer is zero.  If you want an OS that's "good enough", it's a mere download away from pretty much any Linux distro.  Apple are hanging on by using OSX as their value add to an otherwise rather ordinary (and "brand name" priced) hardware lineup, but it's gonna be hard times ahead for them as well as hardware prices become more and more commodity (low priced machines only make sense when you have no software licensing costs, the cost of Windows has forced them out of the low priced tablet market, and desktop-class hardware is approaching prices in the tens of dollars rather than the hundreds or thousands).

[Elrick]

If you want an OS that's "good enough", it's a mere download away from pretty much any Linux distro.

I was always scared of using a Linux distribution due to it not being a Windows Install.  Also worried about conducting banking and payments via their OS.  Just want a 100% secure OS without fear of losing my log-ins to key finders and other rubbish that might be (possibly) installed via any current Linux OS.

Sorry to be so negative about Linux but I couldn't take a risk that would cost me big time down the track.

[tp4tissue]

No one h8s windows 8...  it just makes no sense to upgrade from 7... 
No one h8s Vista...  It just made no sense to upgrade from XP...

[Oobly]

If you want an OS that's "good enough", it's a mere download away from pretty much any Linux distro.

I was always scared of using a Linux distribution due to it not being a Windows Install.  Also worried about conducting banking and payments via their OS.  Just want a 100% secure OS without fear of losing my log-ins to key finders and other rubbish that might be (possibly) installed via any current Linux OS.

Sorry to be so negative about Linux but I couldn't take a risk that would cost me big time down the track.

Oh man... I don't even know where to start with this post..

You want a 100% secure OS and are worried about keyloggers, etc. and you run Windows instead of Linux? Just where were you planning on getting your Linux distros from? Underground IP address-only warez sites?

It's not a Windows install, because it's a Linux install... Latest ones are as easy (or easier) to install and set up as Windows. Some have really nice config scripts that make customising easy (install only the stuff you want, disable the stuff you don't, etc).

Lots of distros to choose from depending on your tastes, too. I like Crunchbang personally, it's so minimalist. Ubuntu is a popular choice. Give it a try, you may be pleasantly surprised.

[tufty]

Also worried about conducting banking and payments via their OS.  Just want a 100% secure OS without fear of losing my log-ins to key finders and other rubbish that might be (possibly) installed via any current Linux OS.

Sorry to be so negative about Linux but I couldn't take a risk that would cost me big time down the track.

Sorry?  That's gotta be a troll, right?

You'd rather blindly trust your data to non-auditable code in a closed environment that has historically proven to be the #1 host for malware of all sorts?  To a closed environment that allegedly has NSA backdoors planted in it?

There's loads of perfectly valid reasons to fear using linux, but - well, just - wow. 

[Elrick]

Lots of distros to choose from depending on your tastes, too. I like Crunchbang personally, it's so minimalist. Ubuntu is a popular choice. Give it a try, you may be pleasantly surprised.

Sorry to get you miffed with what a typical Windows user thinks about Linux in general.  As I have never installed or used a Linux distribution in my life I figured I would show my ignorance for you guys to kick about.

You'd rather blindly trust your data to non-auditable code in a closed environment that has historically proven to be the #1 host for malware of all sorts?  To a closed environment that allegedly has NSA backdoors planted in it?

I know they exist but do you really think Linux is any safer in that regard?  I have been using every type of Windows OS over the years from 98 to 8.0 and have never had my bank/credit account details stolen or used anywhere.  That is why I'm still using Microsoft's gear.  I just wish Linux provided that same amount of protection.

Yes, sorry to insult you more with my ignorance but if you're happy with what you've got, you keep on using it.

[Oobly]

...
I just wish Linux provided that same amount of protection.
...

Firstly, I apologise if I caused offense, there was none meant.

Secondly, please allow me to help reduce your ignorance:

Linux provides way BETTER security than Windows.

That's why I didn't understand your post. Windows is prone to so many types of malware and attacks that Linux is impervious to. You don't have to use any type of malware prevention / antivirus software when you run Linux.

[tufty]

I know they exist but do you really think Linux is any safer in that regard?

Yes.  At a fundamental level, the linux kernel and GNU userspace layer is enormously more secure than the equivalent parts of Windows, and they are updated to enhance that security / patch issues far more regularly.

It's hard to quantify using, for example, secunia.com's vulnerability database, given that the linux equivalent to Windows is an amalgam of the Linux kernel, the windowing system, and  the various userspace daemons and utilities that a given distro installs.  And then you have to add on the software that you're actually using.

FWIW, Windows (from at least XP up to *at least* Win 7.x) is currently wide open for remote exploit (running arbitrary code with system-level permissions).  The vulnerability allowing this has been disclosed publicly since 2010, and has been known about in "black hat" circles for much longer.  It's not been patched, and it's not a "theoretical" exploit - it's being widely used to (for example) load malware including keyloggers and botnet software.

IE is a "bit" shaky, as well.  Office 2013?  Don't even get me started on "productivity" software that allows remote users to gain system level permissions on your machine.

[microsoft windows]

All of this proves my point even further. You all should use Windows 3.1 if you care about security. That's what I do!

[Elrick]

Firstly, I apologise if I caused offense, there was none meant.

Dear Sir,

You could never insult me regarding my ignorance relating to Linux because I have never used it and the so-called anti-Linux propaganda is quite effective within the Windows world.  Hence for average users it instills complete (frightened) loyalty to everything relating to Microsoft.  If there is nothing else out there we (I am) stuck with using Windows OS's for many years to come.

So please don't feel you have caused any offense but you helped instill a curiosity about using Linux on at least one PC Box, to see what all the mystery is relating to this new operating system  .

[rowdy]

I tried running Linux as a desktop operating system for a few months a few years ago.

At that time I used Firefox and Thunderbird under Windows, and migration of data was seamless.

It worked well, but I have been using Linux for long enough to expect things on the GUI to crash every now and again, so that lingering suspicion probably tainted my experiment.

Linux GUIs are probably more stable than that now.

Eventually I switched back to Windows due to the lack of game support under Linux.

[epiphany]

We're actually in an odd place right now for Linux too. I'm a long time Linux user and have loved it for years, but it's gotten kind of chaotic lately as Ubuntu tries to move to mobile as well and they start to shift to new display servers (Mir or Wayland). I can still set up a good stable system which runs most software that I need, and Ubuntu works well for me on certain hardware (but really fails on others). It's not a good time to switch to Linux - and it pains me to say that.

Right now I'm running mostly hackintoshes that dual boot to Linux. Lately I've also been playing with Windows 7/8 because I need to support Windows machines at my job. Really, I've been pretty unimpressed with making the switch back (I haven't used Windows regularly since around 2007). Windows still feels unpolished to me. Windows 8 feels really odd while using a mouse/keyboard. I realize that there are decent keyboard combos, but I haven't learned them yet, and I've been baffled by the separation between Metro/Desktop. Why aren't they using the same apps - especially when they have the same name? (Internet Explorer for instance). And why isn't there a Metro version of Word/Office for RT. -- RT by the way seems like it could have been a winner but they made it a second class citizen.

Honestly, Windows 8 was something I was really excited about because I was interested in seeing when mobile/desktop would really converge in a beautiful way. I basically want a laptop/tablet combo that I can attach a mouse/keyboard to and get some real work done. Instead, it seems like they are just totally lacking in direction and thinking that their problem is that they just aren't advertising enough.

Really it feels like everyone is just trying to figure out what to do next - whether Linux, Mac, or Windows. I'm hoping that someone rises up and comes up with something that's a real winner, because it's clear that we haven't found it yet.

[tufty]

you helped instill a curiosity about using Linux on at least one PC Box, to see what all the mystery is relating to this new operating system  .

That's a good start.  Curiosity is always good.

You don't need to dedicate a PC to it - as long as your PC can boot from USB, you can run it from a thumb stick.  It *will* be slower run that way, but it'll give you an idea of what it's like.  Or you could set up a virtual machine with VirtualBox and install to that.

You may not like everything, but you usually have a choice.  2 major desktop environments, and umpteen different variants.  etc etc.  Give it a try.

[Oobly]

Curiosity is good You can also use the install CD / DVD for most distros and boot straight from that to get an idea of how the system looks and works. No install needed.

...

Eventually I switched back to Windows due to the lack of game support under Linux.

This is the main reason I still use Windows and my main complaint about Linux.

<Warning: Some may find the following controversial>
The OS design is simply not good for gaming, for a lot of rather in-depth low level OS design-related reasons. The scheduler, kernel, driver architecture, etc, are good for running background tasks, handling input, etc, but the input devices and display drivers do not get high enough priority to be as responsive as possible which is what you need for a great gaming experience. Throwing more speed at the system is bringing it up to acceptable levels, but it's still not going to be as responsive as Win7 due to design.

Of course the Office equivalents on Linux also suck, but that's a whole other debate.

[tufty]

Of course the Office equivalents on Linux also suck, but that's a whole other debate.

Indeed.  They suck almost as much as Office itself.

[iri]

recently i've bought a cheap and powerful hp laptop with windows 8 preinstalled. wi-fi software crashed 5 minutes of use. i formatted the hd and installed the latest ubuntu, which took only ten minutes. i am satisfied now.

[oscillik]

recently i've bought a cheap and powerful hp laptop with windows 8 preinstalled. wi-fi software crashed 5 minutes of use. i formatted the hd and installed the latest ubuntu, which took only ten minutes. i am satisfied now.

That would've been a driver issue, nothing to do with Windows 8 itself.

but congrats on getting Ubuntu and being satisfied!

[ynrozturk]

Bit overkill to wipe the OS because of a single driver which could have easily been updated. But Ubuntu is great so enjoy!

[iri]

background note: i haven't been using windows for 7 years before buying this laptop. and i didn't want to mess up with "fixing whatever error wizard" almost immediately after i started the system.

[dustinhxc]

I used it for a couple weeks. Customized some stuff, did some tweaks. I have some cool screenshots. Just wasnt feeling it though. Went back to full partition Windows 7 and full partition ubuntu 12.04 w Gnome Classic of course  .

[inteli722]

[vun]

I've had to set up some computers with win8 and also update to 8.1, so far I'm not impressed and it's not worth upgrading at all. Might've been worth it during the discount period after release, but at full price I just can't see why I'd want to get 8/8.1 over 7.

Although with 8.1 it seems like it's a usable system if you're getting it pre-installed or something, and it's amazing for casual use since a lot of newer laptops and AIO machines have touchscreens these days.

[dustinhxc]

accidental post  how do i delete

[Elrick]

I've had to set up some computers with win8 and also update to 8.1, so far I'm not impressed and it's not worth upgrading at all. Might've been worth it during the discount period after release, but at full price I just can't see why I'd want to get 8/8.1 over 7.

My thoughts exactly.  I don't see it anywhere worth the money they're demanding.  If it was down around $50USD max then it might be worth upgrading but at the current price tag, the 7 version still reigns supreme if you have to choose a windows operating system.

Ubuntu is taking my interest currently and it might actually swing me away from Microsoft.  Go figure, Linux seems much more exciting now especially since it's 100% FREE  .

[dustinhxc]

I've had to set up some computers with win8 and also update to 8.1, so far I'm not impressed and it's not worth upgrading at all. Might've been worth it during the discount period after release, but at full price I just can't see why I'd want to get 8/8.1 over 7.

My thoughts exactly.  I don't see it anywhere worth the money they're demanding.  If it was down around $50USD max then it might be worth upgrading but at the current price tag, the 7 version still reigns supreme if you have to choose a windows operating system.

Ubuntu is taking my interest currently and it might actually swing me away from Microsoft.  Go figure, Linux seems much more exciting now especially since it's 100% FREE  .

Try it out! I love the feel of 12.04 with classic gnome menu