Known problems with expensive keyboards?

[Keytrun]

There are a lot of korean customs that come and go through this forum. Before I bought my filco last month I, myself, almost bought a LZ-GH. I wanted to do some research before buying it, and the one for sale wasn't in the color I wanted so I held off. One of the things that struck me as odd was the fact that a lot of forum members had been selling their LZ-GH's recently. I asked on the forum why that was and didn't really get much of a conclusive answer. I asked the seller of the board why he was selling and he claimed he didn't have much interest in the board anymore. There's actually even another person selling their LZ-GH right now, but is willing to trade for another korean custom. Why trade your current, (from what I gather) barely used, custom for a different one? (not that I'm sure that there aren't legitimate reasons) Well, one of the threads I found while searching spoke about a problem with the LZ-GH's. Something about the keys registering too many times when pressed http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=51663.0. Anyway - what really bothers me is that no one told me about this issue. Even people who posted on the thread when I was asking if it was a good board didn't mention it. Photoelectric and Spamray both posted on the thread that talks about the LZ-GH's issues, as well as the thread I replied to in regards of buying the LZ-GH. I'm not "angry" at them by any means. I'm just a little curious as to why they wouldn't have mentioned it when I was obviously trying to figure out why the thing was being sold. I feel like selling something you know if flawed without stating such is disingenuous. Granted, if I just paid that much money for a board and spent months and months waiting only to find out that it's got some serious issues - I'd probably want to get rid of it too.

I had similar issues on a computer forum where people were claiming in one thread that their after market laptop video cards were working fine with 0 issue and there was no reason not to buy one. Then, in another thread they were talking about how the cards have all sorts of problems. Anyway, I'm just trying to figure out if there are any known issues with any other boards - especially these expensive korean customs. If you know of any specific issues post them here.

[tp4tissue]

I think those problems are fixable because the boards have flexible firmwares..

But.... I'm not sure if it's easy if documentation is on some korean site.. stuff explained in korean..

[esoomenona]

I think most people who are selling them aren't out to scam you, trying to sell a keyboard that has issues. I'd imagine they're probably not even aware, as they probably have never even used it. I'd put money on the fact that they really just came to the realization that it was the keyboard they wanted once they had it in their hands or after a bit of time with it.

But then maybe some people are trying to get out from under it.

Where are you asking these questions that no one is answering them? The information you wanted was also here. You just have to find it yourself sometimes...

[Keytrun]

Oddly enough typing in the geekhack search bar "lz gh problems" didn't give me anything. I assumed if it wasn't on these forums it wasn't on the internet. I went to google, typed in the same thing and got the thread that I linked in my initial post.

I'm not trying to create issues or start a witch hunt. I'm just trying to compile a list of known issues of korean customs / expensive boards. I think it could be really beneficial. Thanks

[tp4tissue]

I think most people who are selling them aren't out to scam you, trying to sell a keyboard that has issues. I'd imagine they're probably not even aware, as they probably have never even used it. I'd put money on the fact that they really just came to the realization that it was the keyboard they wanted once they had it in their hands or after a bit of time with it.

But then maybe some people are trying to get out from under it.

Where are you asking these questions that no one is answering them? The information you wanted was also here. You just have to find it yourself sometimes...

this does happen with expensive items.. although.. in this case, not that expensive..

But as far as most customs go,, if there is any problem.. given their large following, I'm quite sure the fix is out there.

IF you can find it.


But you have to recognize that problems will be overblown, because people expect more from a $500 purchase..

So even if it's a small issue that wouldn't affect most people, some will blow it out of proportion.

[Photoelectric]

A proper firmware update should solve those issues you have seen mentioned.  It's only a problem now because the firmware is not open source, and we can't modify it ourselves.  If it had used a more common chip and used open source firmware, we'd have already had good firmware for it from hasu or metalliqaz or a number of other people to handle debounce well, and it wouldn't even be an issue.  We've been promised a firmware update by the vendor, so we'll see.

[terran5992]

Might be a problem you dont notice .

But when you do , you cant not notice it

[tp4tissue]

A proper firmware update should solve those issues you have seen mentioned.  It's only a problem now because the firmware is not open source, and we can't modify it ourselves.  If it had used a more common chip and used open source firmware, we'd have already had good firmware for it from hasu or metalliqaz or a number of other people to handle debounce well, and it wouldn't even be an issue.  We've been promised a firmware update by the vendor, so we'll see.

lz's not open source? 

[Keytrun]

A proper firmware update should solve those issues you have seen mentioned.  It's only a problem now because the firmware is not open source, and we can't modify it ourselves.  If it had used a more common chip and used open source firmware, we'd have already had good firmware for it from hasu or metalliqaz or a number of other people to handle debounce well, and it wouldn't even be an issue.  We've been promised a firmware update by the vendor, so we'll see.

So would you say that everyone with a LZ-GH is having this problem? Is there any way that someone selling it (provided they've used it) wouldn't know that somethings wrong with it? Or is it a situation where its fine most of the time except in extremely rare occurrences?

[Photoelectric]

No, I'm not saying that.  Only a handful of people have come forward with those issues so far, and a lot more keyboards with those PCBs have been sold, so it could well be that those configurations have not been noticeably affected.  You need to read more about debounce properties and firmware--it's not all clear cut.  LZ-SE has the same exact PCB, for example, and it's very popular.  I believe it's the lack of exclusivity that makes LZ-GH less desirable, since they were from a group buy hosted here, rather than somewhere overseas, more difficult to get.  I won't be selling mine in the foreseeable future as I don't see anything truly better with full LED support yet.  Exclusivity doesn't affect my choices.

[tp4tissue]

No, I'm not saying that.  Only a handful of people have come forward with those issues so far, and a lot more keyboards with those PCBs have been sold, so it could well be that those configurations have not been noticeably affected.  You need to read more about debounce properties and firmware--it's not all clear cut.  LZ-SE has the same exact PCB, for example, and it's very popular.  I believe it's the lack of exclusivity that makes LZ-GH less desirable, since they were from a group buy hosted here, rather than somewhere overseas, more difficult to get.  I won't be selling mine in the foreseeable future as I don't see anything truly better with full LED support yet.  Exclusivity doesn't affect my choices.

Liar

If that was AT ALL the case... everyone would be rocking quickfire rapids and nothing else..

[Keytrun]

I  disagree with you completely. I was considering the QFR when I was looking for my board and "exclusivity" had nothing to do with it. I got the Filco, not because it was more "rare", but because the research I did indicated it was the better board. What about people with LED's? Are they only getting keyboards with LED's to be "exclusive"?