Why do some people like TKL or non standard smaller sized keyboards?

[Kamen Rider Blade]

Personally I couldn't live without the Numpad, and I'm not a fan of detached Numpads

What are the thoughts from you folks who like TKL and other smaller layouts?

[Rayne]

i personally am a huge fan of TKL. I like it because it feels more natural to have my mouse hand closer to the keyboard, and with the numpad it just feels too far away. also the way i have my keybinds set up in some games, like starcraft and dota, i have to have my keyboard tilted and the numpad would hang off the front of my desk.
honestly, before i tried TKL i didnt really get it either, but once i tried it, i dont want to go back.

[tribade]

I never really use the numpad for anything.  And I love the form factor of smaller boards.  Especially 60% boards.  If I ever need a numpad I'll probably get a separate one, just because I've grown so attached to my TKL and 60% keyboards.  Although it would be an excuse to buy more keyboards...so maybe I'd get some new boards!  Also having the mouse closer to the boards feels nicer to me.  Plus I generally have a smaller desk so space is at a premium.

[epzy]

I don't need a numpad. It's a waste of space. Makes for a bad posture as well. More ergonomic to have your hands closer. Aesthetics. A TKL basically have most of the keys I would get from a numpad on my TKL anyway. Never going back to full-size.

I don't work with excel, and if I did, I'd get a separate num pad, because it's simply better to have an option to put it away when I'm not going to crunch numbers as opposed to have it take up space 24/7. )

[noisyturtle]

Many of the same reasons stated above: small desk space, and rarely need to use the numpad. Maybe if it didn't invade my mouse area I'd be more forgiving, but I need a small desk for my small room right now.

[osi]

Desk real estate. My keyboard tray is cramped and by having a smaller form factor board, it leaves more room for activities.

The num pad comes to use if numbers need to be crunched. Otherwise the number row becomes quite familiar.

Also I prefer the look of smaller boards

[kfmfe04]

I've never had any use for a numpad... ...with a hhkb, I can type on my lap or type in bed with a laptop - perfectly convenient and portable

[tp4tissue]

There are 3 distinct crowds on GH....

Collectors...  they'll buy anything, in fact, that's essentially what they're trying to do, BUY EVERYTHING...

N00bs... they'll read a spec sheet and compare features they have no use for, then they'll buy something, it makes them happy as long as they can keep talking about it. <-most topre fanbois fall here...

USERS...  the keyboard is an extension of oneself..    These people have an Egdx.. they sacrifice all aesthetics to pursue the most "usable" keyboard.

[fohat.digs]

I have a large desk and a huge keyboard, and I depend on the numpad constantly.

Sometime in the future, when and if I retire, I will not be dealing with lots of numbers regularly and may go to a small keyboard.

But I would really hate to give up the dedicated arrow keys, those are truly essential.

[Sifo]

Personally I couldn't live without the Numpad

And others can.

[fohat.digs]

Personally I couldn't live without the Numpad

And others can.

It is all about how much you work with numbers. "Touch typing" on the numpad is far faster and easier than touch typing letters. And can anyone REALLY accurately touch type the number row above the alpha keys?

[The_Beast]

I can't stand how much deskspace a fullsized keyboard takes up even if I did have a huge desk. If I needed a numberpad, which sometimes I do, I find and separate one to be much more convenient.

[heedpantsnow]

i personally am a huge fan of TKL. I like it because it feels more natural to have my mouse hand closer to the keyboard, and with the numpad it just feels too far away. also the way i have my keybinds set up in some games, like starcraft and dota, i have to have my keyboard tilted and the numpad would hang off the front of my desk.
honestly, before i tried TKL i didnt really get it either, but once i tried it, i dont want to go back.

This

[Sifo]

Personally I couldn't live without the Numpad

And others can.

It is all about how much you work with numbers. "Touch typing" on the numpad is far faster and easier than touch typing letters. And can anyone REALLY accurately touch type the number row above the alpha keys?

I can perfectly touch type number row..

[Kamen Rider Blade]

Personally I couldn't live without the Numpad

And others can.

It is all about how much you work with numbers. "Touch typing" on the numpad is far faster and easier than touch typing letters. And can anyone REALLY accurately touch type the number row above the alpha keys?

My accuracy with the Numpad is pretty high, my accuracy with the number row isn't anywhere close to that.

[The_Beast]

Personally I couldn't live without the Numpad

And others can.

It is all about how much you work with numbers. "Touch typing" on the numpad is far faster and easier than touch typing letters. And can anyone REALLY accurately touch type the number row above the alpha keys?

I can perfectly touch type number row..

Yup, once you lose the numberpad, you learn quite quickly what on the number row is where including the symbols.

[gameaholic]

I thought I couldn't live without the numpad either but what got me into TKL is that my mouse is now closer to my keyboard for when I'm gaming and allows me to swipe closer to the left.  Even now I sometimes hit the right side of my keyboard with my mouse so I have a 60% keyboard I will eventually get around to swapping in.  I honestly haven't used it much at all yet.  Maybe it's the fear of losing my dedicated arrow keys and page up/page down.  I did eventually get the hang of using the numbers along the top row though so maybe I don't really need those either.  I will probably get a dedicated numpad and put that to the left of my 60% board or to the right of my mousepad.   

[Grim Fandango]

-Because I like the aesthetics of the TKL keyboards.

-Because TKL keyboards allow me to have my mouse and keyboard in a more natural position.

-Because it saves deskspace.

-Because there is nothing I use on the numpad that is not already somewhere else on the keyboard.

-Because I can still add a numpad though USB if I need the efficiency of the numpad layout.

-Because the frequency of use of the numpad does not justify the amount of space it takes up for home use (for me).

[fohat.digs]

I march to the beat of a different drummer.

I never game and keep a mouse on each side of the keyboard. My big irritation is not being able to find a left-hand vertical mouse I like.

[tp4tissue]

I march to the beat of a different drummer.

I never game and keep a mouse on each side of the keyboard. My big irritation is not being able to find a left-hand vertical mouse I like.

Ur nutzo....

[Linkbane]

Most of the responses; it's quite comfortable to not have to reach as far when I use my mouse playing games, and also it's much more difficult to move a full-size keyboard around in a backpack in comparison to a TKL; it might not seem like a huge difference, but most backpacks can't fit a full-size without being damaged by the stretching unless they're really large. You might like the QF TK layout, which uses a numpad with a '00' key and therefore doubles as a navigation cluster and directional keys, which I personally found ingenious.

[demik]

i like my number pad on the left, or out of sight when im not using it.

[Kamen Rider Blade]

Is there a limit to how small your keyboard can be before it becomes unwieldy for you folks who like shortened keyboards?

Chopping off the Numberpad is common, but what about chopping off the arrow-key cluster, 6-key cluster, and 3-key cluster?

Which of those clusters can you live without or have assigned to somewhere else?

Just curious as to how far you folks are willing to shrink your keyboard?

[Sifo]

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=47133.0

[kenmai9]

Desk  space. I could fit a TKL but I like having the space between my Poker and mouse, which would otherwise be taken up by the tenkey.

[HPE1000]

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=47133.0

Don't give him a heart attack man, small keyboards are bad and scary.

[yasuo]

There are 3 distinct crowds on GH....

Collectors...  they'll buy anything, in fact, that's essentially what they're trying to do, BUY EVERYTHING...

N00bs... they'll read a spec sheet and compare features they have no use for, then they'll buy something, it makes them happy as long as they can keep talking about it. <-most topre fanbois fall here...

USERS...  the keyboard is an extension of oneself..    These people have an Egdx.. they sacrifice all aesthetics to pursue the most "usable" keyboard.

+1 USERS

[rowdy]

My first couple of modern mechanical keyboards were full size, every one since then has been TKL or smaller (except the Model M).

The only time I miss the numpad is typing IP addresses.

Apart from that I enjoy the additional desk space it frees up.

[audioave10]

I use a TKL on one PC and a full size Cherry G80-3000 on the other.The best of both worlds!
I use the numpad for a trainer with GTA4.

[HPE1000]

I use a TKL on one PC and a full size Cherry G80-3000 on the other.The best of both worlds!
I use the numpad for a trainer with GTA4.

I too used the numpad for the simple trainer on gta, but I just remapped them to normal keys after I got rid of my keyboard with a numpad on it.

[luis911]

Engineering student here. I can't live without that numpad. 

[dustinhxc]

All I use are my Poker X and HHKB Pro 2 but I have to have my Leopold Numberpad next to them. I love numberpads. But I hate anything bigger then 60%

[Fullcream]

Personally I couldn't live without the Numpad

And others can.

It is all about how much you work with numbers. "Touch typing" on the numpad is far faster and easier than touch typing letters. And can anyone REALLY accurately touch type the number row above the alpha keys?

Yes. People REALLY can

[epzy]

And can anyone REALLY accurately touch type the number row above the alpha keys?
[/quote]

I can do that. I never look down at my keyboard, ever.

[Warduke]

-Because I like the aesthetics of the TKL keyboards.

-Because TKL keyboards allow me to have my mouse and keyboard in a more natural position.

^This.

TKL just looks so much better to me and now when I do use a full size keyboard, the fact that my trackball is further away makes using it uncomfortable.

[Linkbane]

I think I'm in the cult of aesthetics; it both physically and mentally feels more uncomfortable to type on both because I know it's unergonomic and ugly.

[Grim Fandango]

Personally I couldn't live without the Numpad

And others can.

It is all about how much you work with numbers. "Touch typing" on the numpad is far faster and easier than touch typing letters. And can anyone REALLY accurately touch type the number row above the alpha keys?

Yes. People REALLY can

I can touch type the number row if it is just a couple of numbers without thinking about it. For example, when I need to type 322, I can do so fast and accurately.

However, when I need to type a longer string of numbers it becomes a problem and I get confused. Even though my hand is still in kind of home-row position, I lose my sense of where my fingers are on the keyboard. A numpad is way, way faster for me (though I still use TKL).

[fatchoi]

-Because I like the aesthetics of the TKL keyboards.

-Because TKL keyboards allow me to have my mouse and keyboard in a more natural position.

-Because it saves deskspace.

-Because there is nothing I use on the numpad that is not already somewhere else on the keyboard.

-Because I can still add a numpad though USB if I need the efficiency of the numpad layout.

-Because the frequency of use of the numpad does not justify the amount of space it takes up for home use (for me).

Hm... You can't use num lock elsewhere outside the keypad. B-)

[HongKongFui]

I only need numpad at work, I never need dedicated arrow keys. So fullsize is just a waste of space. 60% boards look awesome and when gaming it's helpful to have the mousehand close to the w a s d- hand...

[Findecanor]

It is part ergonomics, part trimming excess (for those who never use the numpad), and part because smaller keyboards are sexier.
It is a trend. "Tenkeyless" used to be super-cool when there weren't many of them. Then the "75%", "60%" and even smaller custom keyboards have come more into fancy.

[Shapey Fiend]

I need a numpad. I'm often on a laptop so I'm used to getting by without it but I certainly don't like it.

What I wish they'd make (maybe they do and I haven't seen it) is a keyboard that takes out the "middle" keys.. do they call them 6 key?The arrow keys as well. Take those out and leave the numpad on.

[Oobly]

I need a numpad. I'm often on a laptop so I'm used to getting by without it but I certainly don't like it.

What I wish they'd make (maybe they do and I haven't seen it) is a keyboard that takes out the "middle" keys.. do they call them 6 key?The arrow keys as well. Take those out and leave the numpad on.

There are a few out there.

http://www.roccat.org/Products/Gaming-Keyboards/ROCCAT-Arvo/

http://www.cmstorm.com/en/products/keyboards/quickfiretk/

http://www.logitech.com/product/keyboard-k360

I can only recommend the Quickfire TK. It's the only mechanical board in the list.

[fohat.digs]

What I wish they'd make (maybe they do and I haven't seen it) is a keyboard that takes out the "middle" keys.. do they call them 6 key?The arrow keys as well. Take those out and leave the numpad on.

Some of the comments on this thread are astonishing.

The numpad and arrow keys are some of the most heavily-used keys on my keyboard, as are "Delete", "Page Up", and "Page Down" (although the other half of the "6-pack" are rarely touched at all).

I can understand people who do not work with numbers not wanting a numpad, but how can anybody get by without arrow keys? Are you using a function to go into the middle of your character set to move up and down rows in a text document? If you need to navigate up 2 rows and back 10 characters to correct a spelling mistake, how do you do it?

Or do go to the enormous trouble of using a mouse to navigate, and that is why you need it so close by?

PS - get a Model F AT and add Alt keys!

[smknjoe]

Personally I couldn't live without the Numpad, and I'm not a fan of detached Numpads

What are the thoughts from you folks who like TKL and other smaller layouts?

I like TKL because that's what I first learned to use. The first PCs available (Apple, Apple II, Commodore, etc.) had no numpad, but they did have the number row. My first PC was a Commodore Vic 20 and at school we had Apple II.

Since the numpad has become a standard feature I still see no need for it unless you are an accountant or book keeper crunching numbers constantly. As for engineering (software or otherwise) the number row is quiet sufficient and I am quite accurate with it. I actually think the number row is more efficient and ergonomic since you can use it without moving from the "Home Row."

Plus, it's nice to have more desk space and to have your mouse closer to you.

[Polymer]

I need a numpad. I'm often on a laptop so I'm used to getting by without it but I certainly don't like it.

What I wish they'd make (maybe they do and I haven't seen it) is a keyboard that takes out the "middle" keys.. do they call them 6 key?The arrow keys as well. Take those out and leave the numpad on.

Just get a Quickfire TK then...That sounds like exactly what you want. 

As far as why a lot of people like TKL...Pretty much all of the reasons have been mentioned.  I look at it as, unless I'm pounding away with numbers for extended periods of time, I'd much rather have that real estate on my desk.  I'd much rather have the mouse closer to me.  I've grown so used to TKL I just don't see myself ever going full size...to the point where, like others here have mentioned, if I need a numberpad that badly, I'll buy a dedicated one (not that I ever plan on needing one that badly). 

[smknjoe]

I can understand people who do not work with numbers not wanting a numpad, but how can anybody get by without arrow keys?

Other key commands/combos or the mouse.

[flyassguy]

Some TKL keyboards have a numpad integrated within them through a function key. Can see those on some laptops too.

[smknjoe]

Do they not teach typing in school anymore? If so, do they not teach you to use the number row or did most of you just skip that class (like I did)?

[Lighthouse1]

I prefer the mouse closer and I use the top row all the time at work (developer) without any issues. I obsessively hung onto a numpad for ages when I first looked for a decent keyboard (my second was a fullsize Filco) but actually I find now it has made no difference to productivity at work to give one up and it makes the reach to mouse easier both there and at home. Plus if you want to get a cool additional keyset its cheaper not to have the numbers, making an ISO add on more affordable. Nothing not to like.

I don't really understand why people care dramatically one way or the other though..whatever suits you suits you.

[TheSoulhunter]

See: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=50523.msg1106101#msg1106101
Also "Some"? I guess around here it's the majority who uses em...