Author Topic: Vaccines, the reality.  (Read 1438 times)

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Offline tp4tissue

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Vaccines, the reality.
« on: Thu, 21 May 2020, 09:36:27 »
Be Optimistic..

However,  Generally,  we've seen with the flu, year over year, we've had points in statistics where effectiveness was as low as 10-15%. This is because these viruses mutate rapidly, and the vaccine effectiveness plummets within MONTHS.

There are already hundreds if not thousands of strains.

So, if and when they start a rollout, KNOW THAT, it's not perfect, it's not a cure, it doesn't prevent infection, it only mildly lowers risk of dying (at the population level).


At the individual level if we get a vaccine shot today, we shouldn't behave differently. Social distancing should go the length of YEARS. Be cautious around old people, they are at high risk regardless.

This is the REALITY that's been muddled.



Any country that holds up a banner saying 0-cases, 0-suspected,  that's political propaganda, it's impossible, it's a lie. Maybe the intention is not-malicious (to calm the population), but it simply can not be true.

EVEN IF it was the case,  it CAN NOT Remain that way for long.

Covid 19 is forever, there is every indication it is to become endemic in the human population, like HIV, the 4-other Coronaviruses, Hepatitis, Flu, etc etc..
 

Offline Kavik

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Re: Vaccines, the reality.
« Reply #1 on: Thu, 21 May 2020, 13:26:28 »
I don't claim to know jack crap about virology, but I saw in a docu that, before all this started, a team was working on a flu vaccine that would provide immunity against all future flu strains. From what I remember, it showed good results, but they were trying to get it down from seven injections to one or two so that people would actually take it.

My brother is a medical researcher and is doing something related to this virus. I'm not sure what his opinion is on this. Every time I talk to him about work it's always really technical and over my head, but maybe I can report back the next time I've talked to him.

I have found myself oddly resistant to the idea of vaccines against this for some reason. I am not anti-vax by any stretch of the imagination, but something about this whole situation just makes me untrusting. I guess I'm somewhat afraid of people's being forced to be guinea pigs of a bunch of different drugs rushed through the trials process. 
Maybe they're waiting for gasmasks and latex to get sexy again.

The world has become a weird place.

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Vaccines, the reality.
« Reply #2 on: Thu, 21 May 2020, 13:58:33 »
I have found myself oddly resistant to the idea of vaccines against this for some reason. I am not anti-vax by any stretch of the imagination, but something about this whole situation just makes me untrusting. I guess I'm somewhat afraid of people's being forced to be guinea pigs of a bunch of different drugs rushed through the trials process. 

Individual human lives are an expense towards the Greater-Good of Humanity.

This doesn't always work, and there are very selfish actors, but the inefficiency can not be solved by human decision making. It is what it is.

Will it be like Mr.Rabbit, well.. We don't know, but we have plenty of older people to test on who have no such risk as they've already completed personal progeny.

Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Vaccines, the reality.
« Reply #3 on: Thu, 21 May 2020, 18:00:05 »
The reality is that vaccines work and are generally a good thing.

Like everything in statistics, if they prevent x number of cases and deaths while causing y number of cases and deaths, and x is much > y then it is worthwhile. What if you are one of the y's? Sorry, Charlie.

Anti-vax activists are transcendentally stupid morons, and as in politics, the working rationale is always selecting the lesser of 2 evils, even if the difference is very small.

 
"I never understood wind. I know windmills very much, I have studied it better than anybody. I know it is very expensive. They are made in China and Germany mostly, very few made here, almost none, but they are manufactured, tremendous if you are into this tremendous fumes and gases are spewing into the atmosphere. You know we have a world, right? So the world is tiny compared to the universe. So tremendous, tremendous amount of fumes and everything. You talk about the carbon footprint, fumes are spewing into the air, right spewing, whether it is China or Germany, is going into the air.
A windmill will kill many bald eagles. After a certain number, they make you turn the windmill off, that is true. By the way, they make you turn it off. And yet, if you killed one, they put you in jail. That is OK. But why is it OK for windmills to destroy the bird population?"
- Donald Trump - Turning Point USA speech 2019-12-22

Offline suicidal_orange

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Re: Vaccines, the reality.
« Reply #4 on: Thu, 21 May 2020, 18:13:32 »
Anti-vax activists are transcendentally stupid morons

One of the few times natural selection is still allowed to work - I approve.
                               
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Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Vaccines, the reality.
« Reply #5 on: Thu, 21 May 2020, 21:08:28 »
Vaccines are necessary,  but there should also be caution.

Remember, it's a business, and we have FDA chair's revolving door problem with Industry ties.

Most recently Gardisil (an HPV vaccine) led to numerous neurological disorders , it has even been taken off-the-schedule in JAPAN.


When we make these drugs, we don't know everything about them, and quite often, the Data is either skim/inappropriate/muddled or completely lacking.  AS WAS the case with Gardisil.   This is a multibillion dollar company Merck, and they dun' goofed.


The vaccine narrative is being manipulated by the drug companies, ridiculing anyone who is simply Cautious. AS THEY SHOULD BE.

Medical professionals get things wrong ALL THE TIME.

In the 1980s, 40,000 women with breast cancer were treated with high dose chemo/radiation and bone marrow transplant. The basis for this procedure had been a single doctor from South Africa.  Which we later discovered MADE IT ALL UP.

But the procedure went ahead and killed over 9000 women.


Is it enough to be ANTI_Vaxx,  No, that's too far,   but the United States narrative is so one-sided people can't even have the discussion.  We have to realize, that Profit over Lives is the prerogative of the industry.


There's more to it than , just do it,  there's more to it than simply , anti-vaxx 

Offline noisyturtle

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Re: Vaccines, the reality.
« Reply #6 on: Thu, 21 May 2020, 21:10:07 »
Optimistically I want to believe we'll have one by September. Realistically I think we'll have one in ten months to a year.

Offline Leslieann

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Re: Vaccines, the reality.
« Reply #7 on: Thu, 21 May 2020, 23:13:49 »
I have found myself oddly resistant to the idea of vaccines against this for some reason. I am not anti-vax by any stretch of the imagination, but something about this whole situation just makes me untrusting. I guess I'm somewhat afraid of people's being forced to be guinea pigs of a bunch of different drugs rushed through the trials process.
We have a president willing to jump on anything someone posts on Facebook and Twitter claiming it works no matter how f'ing stupid the idea.* It's natural to be hesitant when a person in power acts that way, if they are that fast to jump on junk science, how can you trust the real thing when it does come out.


*This has nothing to do with liking the man or not. Ideas should be discussed and vetted in private before being presented not spitballed in a full press room for the world to hear.
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