So this happened when soldering...

[frosty]

the ring came out. does this mean that my keyboard pcb is screwed and it won't work anymore?

this is a blackwidow tourney cherry edition pcb.

prepare for a white widow build log!

[frosty]

need advise on this particular problem :$

[CPTBadAss]

Jump it. You can see an example of how to do this in my Kingsaver review. Intelli78 has a picture as an example. Just keep in mind the picture is alps. You'll have to figure out where the traces lead to.

[phoenix1234]

Don't worry too much, you can bridge the trace back by using copper wire or small tin wire.
Try to use as small wire as possible (24-28 swg)

[frosty]

Jump it. You can see an example of how to do this in my Kingsaver review. Intelli78 has a picture as an example. Just keep in mind the picture is alps. You'll have to figure out where the traces lead to.

would it work if i just soldered a switch on it?
i browsed your review but there wasn't anything on this (( on mobile )).

could you link me to intelli's photo?

[swill]

Jump it. You can see an example of how to do this in my Kingsaver review. Intelli78 has a picture as an example. Just keep in mind the picture is alps. You'll have to figure out where the traces lead to.

would it work if i just soldered a switch on it?
i browsed your review but there wasn't anything on this (( on mobile )).

could you link me to intelli's photo?

No because the solder will only flow onto metal, so it won't flow onto the PCB anymore.

You will want to add a little wire to the next hole that trace goes to (called jumping). Follow the trace to find the next hole it goes to.

[swill]

Here is a better description of your options.

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=58919.msg1390132.msg#1390132

[CPTBadAss]

Jump it. You can see an example of how to do this in my Kingsaver review. Intelli78 has a picture as an example. Just keep in mind the picture is alps. You'll have to figure out where the traces lead to.

would it work if i just soldered a switch on it?
i browsed your review but there wasn't anything on this (( on mobile )).

could you link me to intelli's photo?

That's because it's not in the review but in the replies in the thread. Try this link.

would it work if i just soldered a switch on it?

Like swill said, no.

[YoungMichael88]

Bummer. This happened to me with an LED on my Poker. It's a real drag.

[samwisekoi]

So you pulled a pad off.  It happens.  FYI, you probably left the soldering iron in one place for too long.  And no, you cannot just solder a switch there -- there is nothing to solder the switch TO without the pad.   But if you could actually do that, it would be fine for as long as the solder joint lasted.

Here is what they are saying about a jumper.

The "ring" that is missing has a trace going somewhere, I can't see it in your photo because it starts on the other side of the PCB, and then jumps between the top and bottom layer through the little dots (called "vias").  But the thing to do is to figure out where the trace from that hole eventually leads, and then to solder a small wire from the connector ("pin") on the switch TO the next component or pad where that trace leads.

The little wire will then "jump" from the switch to the place the trace led.  Thus, a "jumper wire".

Wire from an Ethernet cable is a good size for this purpose.

Your next step is to very carefully figure out where that trace leads.  Look in both directions, because everywhere along a trace is electrically identical.  If you are lucky, that switch pin connects to an identical pin above or below.  If so, you can easily solder a jumper between the two pins.  It may also lead to a tiny diode, in which case you will have to solder the jumper to the correct end of the diode -- without lifting the diode either.

Good luck!

 - Ron | samwisekoi

[frosty]

snip

where do i get these jumper wires? i don't get the picture either

[frosty]

So you pulled a pad off.  It happens.  FYI, you probably left the soldering iron in one place for too long.  And no, you cannot just solder a switch there -- there is nothing to solder the switch TO without the pad.   But if you could actually do that, it would be fine for as long as the solder joint lasted.

Here is what they are saying about a jumper.

The "ring" that is missing has a trace going somewhere, I can't see it in your photo because it starts on the other side of the PCB, and then jumps between the top and bottom layer through the little dots (called "vias").  But the thing to do is to figure out where the trace from that hole eventually leads, and then to solder a small wire from the connector ("pin") on the switch TO the next component or pad where that trace leads.

The little wire will then "jump" from the switch to the place the trace led.  Thus, a "jumper wire".

Wire from an Ethernet cable is a good size for this purpose.

Your next step is to very carefully figure out where that trace leads.  Look in both directions, because everywhere along a trace is electrically identical.  If you are lucky, that switch pin connects to an identical pin above or below.  If so, you can easily solder a jumper between the two pins.  It may also lead to a tiny diode, in which case you will have to solder the jumper to the correct end of the diode -- without lifting the diode either.

Good luck!

 - Ron | samwisekoi

ugh. i shall take one with a full view.

the lifted pad is the lower pad of the two on page down.

[frosty]

looks like it connects to "end" key.

[CPTBadAss]

snip

where do i get these jumper wires? i don't get the picture either

I have 28 AWG wire that I bought at an electronics store. And see samwisekoi's explanation for more info. Essentially you messed up the connection of the circuit to the pad so you need the jumper wire to put the switch back into that circuit.

And your pictures should show the lifted pad. That way we can follow the traces or the little lines on the PCB that make up the circuit I was referring to before.

[frosty]

i can't see any visible connecting "dots" near the lifted pad.

[frosty]

is it safe to assume the lower pad of page down is connected to the lower pad of end from my pictures?

[jdcarpe]

So you want to solder a wire like this, when you install the switch back into place...

[frosty]

So you want to solder a wire like this, when you install the switch back into place...

Show Image

all right! thanks for the info. so i guess the lower pad of pgdn leads to the lower pad of end then :-)

[CPTBadAss]

Guess so. When I tried to jump a QFR, it didn't work out that way. But maybe that's why it wasn't working either...

[frosty]

usually, the next pad you're supposed to jump to is one switch diagonal/to the top/bottom/left/right?

[CPTBadAss]

The way I understood it, you followed the trace in the PCB until you found the next switch then add a jumper wire from the switch with the lifted pad to that next switch.

[jorgenslee]

I think it would be safe to just solder the switch back and make sure there is enough solder in the center of the hole to act as connector to the other side of the pcb. If that fails, you can always jump it to the point where you have illustrated.

[frosty]

will try jorgens's method. sounds legit. i will get some jumper wires ready in the mean time. razer y u sux at qc

[jorgenslee]

This actually happens to me when I try to fix wife's qfr. The ring came out at first try. What I did is trace the pcb and scrape a part of it to reveal the bronze connector, add a solder and connect it to the switch using solder only.

Picture explains it better. lol

[samwisekoi]

will try jorgens's method. sounds legit. i will get some jumper wires ready in the mean time. razer y u sux at qc

No, don't.  Even if this works (and it might) you wouldn't ever be able to de-solder it.  You'd have to get the tip of an iron between the switch and the PCB, and that would be a PITA and possibly damage things more.

No, this is the easiest jumper you can ever do.  First solder the good pin on PgDn and both pins on End.  Then, get a 1" piece of wire, strip both ends a bit, and solder it straight between the two pins shown:


Jumper between PgDn and End switches.

Those two switches are on the end of the PCB, have free space below, and are just 0.750" apart.  It doesn't get any simpler than that.

Again, a piece of wire from an old Ethernet cable, or really any kind of wire that isn't from a phone cord will do.  As long as you don't let bare wire touch the other terminal on the End switch, you are going to be golden.

Don't cheat.  It will actually be harder, and won't be a good thing to do to your keyboard.  Just do the jumper wire.

 - Ron | samwisekoi

[jorgenslee]

will try jorgens's method. sounds legit. i will get some jumper wires ready in the mean time. razer y u sux at qc

No, don't.  Even if this works (and it might) you wouldn't ever be able to de-solder it.  You'd have to get the tip of an iron between the switch and the PCB, and that would be a PITA and possibly damage things more.

No, this is the easiest jumper you can ever do.  First solder the good pin on PgDn and both pins on End.  Then, get a 1" piece of wire, strip both ends a bit, and solder it straight between the two pins shown:

(Attachment Link)
Jumper between PgDn and End switches.

Those two switches are on the end of the PCB, have free space below, and are just 0.750" apart.  It doesn't get any simpler than that.

Again, a piece of wire from an old Ethernet cable, or really any kind of wire that isn't from a phone cord will do.  As long as you don't let bare wire touch the other terminal on the End switch, you are going to be golden.

Don't cheat.  It will actually be harder, and won't be a good thing to do to your keyboard.  Just do the jumper wire.

 - Ron | samwisekoi

Ohh, my bad. I hope OP sees this before deciding what to do. In my opinion, there is still conductor left in the inner ring of the hole since it is a double sided pcb, can that still be use and place the solder there? A good amount of solder to secure contact, not that excessive though to avoid spilling the solder on the other side of the pcb.

[frosty]

i'll find a old cable, then pm you or post in this thread. thanks sam!

[dorkvader]

before you go soldering in jumpers and all that....

There's one possibility you may want to try. As you said originally, just solder the switch back on there. it could work.

See, those are plated through-holes (very nice!) which means that there's some metal in a ring in the inside of the PCB, and more metal on the opposite PCB side. It's possible to solder to the inner ring of metal, even if the pad is lifted.

I haven't seen this mentioned yet in the topic, and it's one of the major bonuses of having such a PCB.

If that doesn't work (and there's a good chance it doesn't) then I recommend getting the jumper wire as has been said. It's more of a "better safe than sorry" that is very reliable.

[CPTBadAss]

I just tried to force the switch back into the padless joint on the QFR I was working on and not only did it not work, I couldn't get all the solder out and it became a huge mess. I'd really advise you not to do that and try jumping it first.

If you want to try scraping it to reveal the copper that might work, I've never tried it myself. But I've had bad experiences with just soldering it back in.

[Sifo]

Man I've lifted so many pads in my learning experience. I only recently learner about jump wiring and it's saved a lot of my personal work. I've had someone tell me to try those conductive writing pens but I have actually tried it yet. Also yeah with certain doubled sided pcb you aren't fully screwed since there's still a connection on the other side. good luck

[CPTBadAss]

Is the razer pcb double sided Sifo?

[Sifo]

Is the razer pcb double sided Sifo?

Can't confirm, I wouldn't expect it to be, it's razer

But I mean he can check

[Quardah]

looks like it connects to "end" key.

I think it is, please someone confirm this, but i believe the boards has a common ground or a common input or output.

If it's that way you can simply identify where it goes and join it to that common knot.

[jdcarpe]

looks like it connects to "end" key.

I think it is, please someone confirm this, but i believe the boards has a common ground or a common input or output.

If it's that way you can simply identify where it goes and join it to that common knot.

Confirmed twice, by myself and samwisekoi.



And the second set of pictures he posted shows the front of the PCB, so yes, it's definitely double sided.

[tp4tissue]

Jump it. You can see an example of how to do this in my Kingsaver review. Intelli78 has a picture as an example. Just keep in mind the picture is alps. You'll have to figure out where the traces lead to.

would it work if i just soldered a switch on it?
i browsed your review but there wasn't anything on this (( on mobile )).

could you link me to intelli's photo?

No because the solder will only flow onto metal, so it won't flow onto the PCB anymore.

You will want to add a little wire to the next hole that trace goes to (called jumping). Follow the trace to find the next hole it goes to.

yellow brick road mother fker... yellow brick road...

[frosty]

will post pictures of the full pcb and plate later in the morning. it's 1.13am here. yellow brick(?)

[tp4tissue]

will post pictures of the full pcb and plate later in the morning. it's 1.13am here. yellow brick(?)

copper get it?  yellow red-ish

[frosty]

will post pictures of the full pcb and plate later in the morning. it's 1.13am here. yellow brick(?)

Show Image

copper get it?  yellow red-ish

oh my god i cant believe i didnt get it omalskfowocowckkf

[dorkvader]

I just tried to force the switch back into the padless joint on the QFR I was working on and not only did it not work, I couldn't get all the solder out and it became a huge mess. I'd really advise you not to do that and try jumping it first.

If you want to try scraping it to reveal the copper that might work, I've never tried it myself. But I've had bad experiences with just soldering it back in.

note that the QFR has a one sided PCB, so my idea is not relevant there.

I recently lifted a pad on an ergodox, but was able to solder it just fine because of the plated through hole.

[frosty]

pictures as promised. i can't take them under these lighting conditions but if anyone wants a clearer picture please request one

[pasph]

Has someone tried those conductive silver pens?

[tp4tissue]

Has someone tried those conductive silver pens?

they work.. but they get scratched off easily, and over time the paint cracks if the pcb bends a little. WHICH IT WILL , because between summer and winter/ any other temperature change, the pcb flexes..

[mouse.the.lucky.dog]

I'm wondering how the strength of the connection is affected?
Considering that part of the strength comes from the trace being attached.

I would use a laquered wire rather then some with plastic insulation.

In the future use flux on the parts that will be soldered desoldered. WHen the flux starts smoking be ready to pull the iron away in a couple of seconds.

[frosty]

Edit: double post

[frosty]

the area where i live basically is subjected to minimal temperature change, from 24-27 daily. so i guess i won't be experiencing melting (duh who does) or freezing temperatures any time soon. yay and nay for equatorial climates

[samwisekoi]

In the future use flux on the parts that will be soldered desoldered. When the flux starts smoking be ready to pull the iron away in a couple of seconds.

Multi-core rosin in deadly lead/tin solder FTW.

Also, ventilation!

 - Ron | samwisekoi

[CPTBadAss]

I just tried to force the switch back into the padless joint on the QFR I was working on and not only did it not work, I couldn't get all the solder out and it became a huge mess. I'd really advise you not to do that and try jumping it first.

If you want to try scraping it to reveal the copper that might work, I've never tried it myself. But I've had bad experiences with just soldering it back in.

note that the QFR has a one sided PCB, so my idea is not relevant there.

I recently lifted a pad on an ergodox, but was able to solder it just fine because of the plated through hole.

Oooo, good call on the single sided vs double sided PCBs.

[frosty]

i'll solder and see if it works, if not, i'll find a old cable of sorts

[frosty]

soldered it, works. fyi the solder DOES NOT go into the area where the pad was! so, double sided pcb users, fret not!