Latest ~2014 Apple Keyboard switches

[Blue_Moon]

Does anyone know what's different about the latest Apple keyboard?

For about a week, I owned a retina iMac. I returned it because of a faulty screen. I didn't replace it because my late 2012 iMac is better at gaming. But in that time I noticed the keyboard is different.

The keys were much softer and easier to press down. But I'm not so sure it's because the keys are actually softer. It could be that the scissor switches are better. On the keyboard I'm typing on now that came with my late 2012, the keys are wobbly. For example, if I press back and forth on diagonal edges of the Enter key, I can wobble the keycap. This bothers me because I get the feeling with every keypress that I'm pressing on a small nub in the middle of the key instead of the entire key. Unfortunately, I returned the retina iMac before testing this hypothesis: that the stabilizers are actually better in the latest keyboard. Maybe I just didn't notice the wobble because they're softer.

The Wikipedia page for Apple Wireless Keyboard lists different models, but they're differentiated by obvious things, such as whether certain keys have changed. I also didn't get a look at the model number on the back of the latest keyboard. The model number for my 2012 keyboard is A1314. I imagine the model number on the latest keyboard is the same and that there isn't anyway to confirm which keyboard I'm getting if I buy another.

[johndavis33]

Rubber domes get stiffer with use, so a new one will feel softer.

That said, new or old the apple aluminum keyboards are ****.

[ezrahilyer]

First off, I am as much a fan of mech keyboards as anyone here, but I don't mind the apple aluminum keyboards as far as feel is concerned. I get a tactile stiff release on my bluetooth keyboard, but the keyboard on my MacBook Air is less firm and the caps do wobble more. It might have something to do with either the way the rubber sheet is mounted, or how firm the backing is.
I think there may be more give to the backing on my laptop, vs the bluetooth keyboard.
Either that or maybe there were different suppliers for the same product run.

-ezra

[fohat.digs]

That said, new or old the apple aluminum keyboards are ****.

My wife is a magazine editor who types thousands of words per day, every day, and has for decades. She will not use anything except for the latest offering from Apple, desktop or laptop.

I hate her keyboards, and she hates mine, but her professional opinion and choice must be considered valid.

[JDorfler]

If you like Apple, this is what you do.  Buy a barebones PC http://www.newegg.com/Store/PromotionStore/ID-2038986?name=Gaming-Barebones.  Then install this http://www.openbsd.org/.  Don't worry about all the BS that you think you like that is Apple.  There is an opensource version that Apple stole from to create their version after watering it down and gimping it.  If you are worried you will not get the Apple experience you are looking for, you could always just buy one of these http://www.jcpenney.com/discovery-kids-teach-talk-exploration-laptop/prod.jump?ppId=pp5004120266&selectedSKUId=80220020034&selectedLotId=8022002&fromBag=true&cm_mmc=ShoppingFeed-_-GooglePLA-_-Vintage%20Style%20Toys-_-80220020034&utm_medium=cse&utm_source=google&utm_campaign=vintage%20style%20toys&utm_content=80220020034&cvosrc=cse.google.80220020034&cvo_cid={creative} and bash your skull in with a hammer. 

If, however, you really need to buy an Apple product, make sure you go to a Starbucks with it so everyone can see you own an Apple Product while you write that great novel about nothing you understand or know, but you can fool others who also buy Apple products.  Make sure if you are a guy you wear skinny jeans and have a beard.

[ezrahilyer]

If you like Apple, this is what you do.  Buy a barebones PC http://www.newegg.com/Store/PromotionStore/ID-2038986?name=Gaming-Barebones.  Then install this http://www.openbsd.org/.  Don't worry about all the BS that you think you like that is Apple.  There is an opensource version that Apple stole from to create their version after watering it down and gimping it.  If you are worried you will not get the Apple experience you are looking for, you could always just buy one of these http://www.jcpenney.com/discovery-kids-teach-talk-exploration-laptop/prod.jump?ppId=pp5004120266&selectedSKUId=80220020034&selectedLotId=8022002&fromBag=true&cm_mmc=ShoppingFeed-_-GooglePLA-_-Vintage%20Style%20Toys-_-80220020034&utm_medium=cse&utm_source=google&utm_campaign=vintage%20style%20toys&utm_content=80220020034&cvosrc=cse.google.80220020034&cvo_cid={creative} and bash your skull in with a hammer. 

If, however, you really need to buy an Apple product, make sure you go to a Starbucks with it so everyone can see you own an Apple Product while you write that great novel about nothing you understand or know, but you can fool others who also buy Apple products.  Make sure if you are a guy you wear skinny jeans and have a beard.

As someone who has been 'into computers' since the Motorola 6800 days, and has re-purposed cassette tapes as dat tapes for his ATARI 410 tape drive because I was to cheap to buy the correct kind, to now working as an IT consultant and web designer, I think I am reasonably unbiased. That said, I think your Apple tirade is full of stereotype and is as far away from truth as those apple evangelist nuts that think the only proper tool for the job is an apple device, no matter what the job. They are all the way to one side, and you are all the way on the other side.
I use apple computers, I use Linux, I use Windows, I use whatever tool I see as best fit for the job, because in the end all a computer, or a tablet, or a phone is, is a tool.

When all you know how to use is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

[JDorfler]

If you like Apple, this is what you do.  Buy a barebones PC http://www.newegg.com/Store/PromotionStore/ID-2038986?name=Gaming-Barebones.  Then install this http://www.openbsd.org/.  Don't worry about all the BS that you think you like that is Apple.  There is an opensource version that Apple stole from to create their version after watering it down and gimping it.  If you are worried you will not get the Apple experience you are looking for, you could always just buy one of these http://www.jcpenney.com/discovery-kids-teach-talk-exploration-laptop/prod.jump?ppId=pp5004120266&selectedSKUId=80220020034&selectedLotId=8022002&fromBag=true&cm_mmc=ShoppingFeed-_-GooglePLA-_-Vintage%20Style%20Toys-_-80220020034&utm_medium=cse&utm_source=google&utm_campaign=vintage%20style%20toys&utm_content=80220020034&cvosrc=cse.google.80220020034&cvo_cid={creative} and bash your skull in with a hammer. 

If, however, you really need to buy an Apple product, make sure you go to a Starbucks with it so everyone can see you own an Apple Product while you write that great novel about nothing you understand or know, but you can fool others who also buy Apple products.  Make sure if you are a guy you wear skinny jeans and have a beard.

As someone who has been 'into computers' since the Motorola 6800 days, and has re-purposed cassette tapes as dat tapes for his ATARI 410 tape drive because I was to cheap to buy the correct kind, to now working as an IT consultant and web designer, I think I am reasonably unbiased. That said, I think your Apple tirade is full of stereotype and is as far away from truth as those apple evangelist nuts that think the only proper tool for the job is an apple device, no matter what the job. They are all the way to one side, and you are all the way on the other side.
I use apple computers, I use Linux, I use Windows, I use whatever tool I see as best fit for the job, because in the end all a computer, or a tablet, or a phone is, is a tool.

When all you know how to use is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

Name one thing that cannot be done better on another platform that you have to have an Apple product for?  One.  Desktop publishing?  Can be done on any platform.  Adobe Media Editing?  Has been a faster and better experience on Windows for years now due to hardware advances and Adobe seeking a larger audience.  Even Apple has stated they are getting out of the power computing business.  Hardware wise, they are a day late and dollar short, but still charge as if their hardware is top of the line.

Apple has stolen from everyone, but will sue you in a heartbeat and put you out of business if given the chance like the patent trolls they are.  Apple is a scum company.  It always has been and always will be.  Their only products that were worth anything that really brought it together for the average consumer was their Apple II, Lisa, and first Macs.

Let us not bury our head in the sand and pretend like it's some great sin to call out a company for what they really are. 

There are two things I admire Apple for.  They do make their own aluminum casings with some very outstanding factory gear.  And two, they have convinced the world that their products are actually innovative and fresh.  That is some marketing.  They know exactly what to steal and when to steal it in order to make money.  Truly amazing.

[Jotokun]

If you like Apple, this is what you do.  Buy a barebones PC http://www.newegg.com/Store/PromotionStore/ID-2038986?name=Gaming-Barebones.  Then install this http://www.openbsd.org/.  Don't worry about all the BS that you think you like that is Apple.  There is an opensource version that Apple stole from to create their version after watering it down and gimping it.  If you are worried you will not get the Apple experience you are looking for, you could always just buy one of these http://www.jcpenney.com/discovery-kids-teach-talk-exploration-laptop/prod.jump?ppId=pp5004120266&selectedSKUId=80220020034&selectedLotId=8022002&fromBag=true&cm_mmc=ShoppingFeed-_-GooglePLA-_-Vintage%20Style%20Toys-_-80220020034&utm_medium=cse&utm_source=google&utm_campaign=vintage%20style%20toys&utm_content=80220020034&cvosrc=cse.google.80220020034&cvo_cid={creative} and bash your skull in with a hammer. 

If, however, you really need to buy an Apple product, make sure you go to a Starbucks with it so everyone can see you own an Apple Product while you write that great novel about nothing you understand or know, but you can fool others who also buy Apple products.  Make sure if you are a guy you wear skinny jeans and have a beard.

As someone who has been 'into computers' since the Motorola 6800 days, and has re-purposed cassette tapes as dat tapes for his ATARI 410 tape drive because I was to cheap to buy the correct kind, to now working as an IT consultant and web designer, I think I am reasonably unbiased. That said, I think your Apple tirade is full of stereotype and is as far away from truth as those apple evangelist nuts that think the only proper tool for the job is an apple device, no matter what the job. They are all the way to one side, and you are all the way on the other side.
I use apple computers, I use Linux, I use Windows, I use whatever tool I see as best fit for the job, because in the end all a computer, or a tablet, or a phone is, is a tool.

When all you know how to use is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

Name one thing that cannot be done better on another platform that you have to have an Apple product for?  One.  Desktop publishing?  Can be done on any platform.  Adobe Media Editing?  Has been a faster and better experience on Windows for years now due to hardware advances and Adobe seeking a larger audience.  Even Apple has stated they are getting out of the power computing business.  Hardware wise, they are a day late and dollar short, but still charge as if their hardware is top of the line.

Apple has stolen from everyone, but will sue you in a heartbeat and put you out of business if given the chance like the patent trolls they are.  Apple is a scum company.  It always has been and always will be.  Their only products that were worth anything that really brought it together for the average consumer was their Apple II, Lisa, and first Macs.

Let us not bury our head in the sand and pretend like it's some great sin to call out a company for what they really are. 

There are two things I admire Apple for.  They do make their own aluminum casings with some very outstanding factory gear.  And two, they have convinced the world that their products are actually innovative and fresh.  That is some marketing.  They know exactly what to steal and when to steal it in order to make money.  Truly amazing.

I agree with what you're saying, just playing devil's advocate... where else could you get a high quality Unix (out of box) laptop with decent warranty/support? In that category, it seems everything else lacks... most offerings are just Windows machines with some Linux flavor thrown on whether it runs well on the hardware or not. The only exception I can think of are chromebooks, but those are rather cheap and you have to void the warranty to do anything useful on one so they don't count.

Thinkpad + *nix seems ideal to me, but if you need support or have things work well out of box, a macbook isn't horrible.

[daerid]

Hating on Apple is so cool, man.

You're cool, bro.

[Roibhilin]

If you like Apple, this is what you do.  Buy a barebones PC http://www.newegg.com/Store/PromotionStore/ID-2038986?name=Gaming-Barebones.  Then install this http://www.openbsd.org/.  Don't worry about all the BS that you think you like that is Apple.  There is an opensource version that Apple stole from to create their version after watering it down and gimping it.  If you are worried you will not get the Apple experience you are looking for, you could always just buy one of these http://www.jcpenney.com/discovery-kids-teach-talk-exploration-laptop/prod.jump?ppId=pp5004120266&selectedSKUId=80220020034&selectedLotId=8022002&fromBag=true&cm_mmc=ShoppingFeed-_-GooglePLA-_-Vintage%20Style%20Toys-_-80220020034&utm_medium=cse&utm_source=google&utm_campaign=vintage%20style%20toys&utm_content=80220020034&cvosrc=cse.google.80220020034&cvo_cid={creative} and bash your skull in with a hammer. 

If, however, you really need to buy an Apple product, make sure you go to a Starbucks with it so everyone can see you own an Apple Product while you write that great novel about nothing you understand or know, but you can fool others who also buy Apple products.  Make sure if you are a guy you wear skinny jeans and have a beard.

sudo apt-get install life
package 'life' not found

[jacobolus]

Name one thing that cannot be done better on another platform that you have to have an Apple product for?  One. [...] Hardware wise, they are a day late and dollar short, but still charge as if their hardware is top of the line. Apple has stolen from everyone, but will sue you in a heartbeat and put you out of business if given the chance like the patent trolls they are.  Apple is a scum company.[...]  They know exactly what to steal and when to steal it in order to make money.  Truly amazing.

Can you take your bull**** to the off topic subforum please?

It’s 200% irrelevant to this thread.

Or better yet, just take it over here: http://arstechnica.com/civis/viewforum.php?f=14

[JDorfler]

I'd like to apologize.  I should have kept my opinions to myself.  If you are offended that I have pointed out my reasons for not liking Apple products, well, I'm sorry I could not validate your purchase.  If you feel you have made the correct purchase, please feel free to continue to make your purchases and be happy.  Please, do not let a faceless voice on the internet get under your skin.

Again, my apologies, I did not mean for my disdain for a particular product to Jack the Thread. 

[tp4tissue]

If you have good technique... the apple aluminum are just fine.. and will last quite a long time..

[jacobolus]

I'd like to apologize.  I should have kept my opinions to myself.  If you are offended that I have pointed out my reasons for not liking Apple products, well, I'm sorry I could not validate your purchase.[...] Please, do not let a faceless voice on the internet get under your skin.

Dude, you still don’t get it. No one gives a damn about your opinion because it’s utterly irrelevant to the topic under discussion. No one is “offended” and you’re not “getting under anyone’s skin”; you’re just a nuisance, like those people on street corners shouting about how we’re all going to hell. If you really want to troll people, you need to find a better venue and try a lot harder.

This is a thread about whether Apple aluminum keyboards changed between versions. Saying “all Apple products are **** and people who like them are idiots” doesn’t add anything useful to the discussion. It’s a complete non sequitur. It’s like we’re chatting about whether dogs or cats make better pets in a city apartment, and you come say: anyone who doesn’t live in a cabin in the forest is an idiot. I mean, okay fine, but so what?

If you want to have a flamewar about operating systems or computer vendors, there are many good places for it on the internet, but this is not the place.

[tp4tissue]

Apple products are ****... and people who use them are idiots..

/ Confirmed !

[JDorfler]

I'd like to apologize.  I should have kept my opinions to myself.  If you are offended that I have pointed out my reasons for not liking Apple products, well, I'm sorry I could not validate your purchase.[...] Please, do not let a faceless voice on the internet get under your skin.

Dude, you still don’t get it. No one gives a damn about your opinion because it’s utterly irrelevant to the topic under discussion. No one is “offended” and you’re not “getting under anyone’s skin”; you’re just a nuisance, like those people on street corners shouting about how we’re all going to hell. If you really want to troll people, you need to find a better venue and try a lot harder.

This is a thread about whether Apple aluminum keyboards changed between versions. Saying “all Apple products are **** and people who like them are idiots” doesn’t add anything useful to the discussion. It’s a complete non sequitur. It’s like we’re chatting about whether dogs or cats make better pets in a city apartment, and you come say: anyone who doesn’t live in a cabin in the forest is an idiot. I mean, okay fine, but so what?

If you want to have a flamewar about operating systems or computer vendors, there are many good places for it on the internet, but this is not the place.

I just thought I apologized for thread jacking?  I stated my opinion and said I was sorry if my comments hurt anyone.  In the future I will try to keep my opinions to myself in regards to products I do not like.  If my comments didn't hurt you, why make a statement after I apologized?

Anyway, after all of this, I have one question no one seemed to be able to answer.  What can an Apple product due better than Nix or Windows that is worth the mark up?  The closest I have gotten is from Jotokun stating the after purchase service.

Again I apologize for thread jacking.  I will keep my opinions about OSes and other off topic items to myself.

[Coreda]

Hating on Apple is so cool, man.

You're cool, bro.

Yea, have never understood the vitriol against Apple keyboards. It's fine that some dislike them, but there are those that see Apple products as a kind of kryptonite to their geek cred.

I have one on my Macbook and like it, and it has arrow and function keys to boot. When I was looking for a new board I searched high and low and there wasn't one that offered the same functionality at the size desired, so I settled on the Poker with no dedicated arrow or function keys. They're good at different things.

[jacobolus]

I just thought I apologized for thread jacking?  I stated my opinion and said I was sorry if my comments hurt anyone.  In the future I will try to keep my opinions to myself in regards to products I do not like.  If my comments didn't hurt you, why make a statement after I apologized?

That was what’s called a “non-apology apology”. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-apology_apology
Saying “sorry for having an opinion, you guys shouldn’t get so butthurt” (paraphrased) is not the same as “apologizing”.

No one has any problem with you sharing your opinion about products. Just do so in the appropriate venue. For instance, if you start a new thread in the “off topic” subforum titled “Apple products are teh suxxors and anyone who buys them is a hipster asshat with too much money”, people might disagree with you, but the thread won’t be out of place.

Anyway, I’m going to assume that you’re pretty young (under 20 perhaps?). I forgive you. Most people go through a phase like that, and then eventually figure things out.

What can an Apple product due better than Nix or Windows that is worth the mark up?

I promise you if you take this question to the “Battlefront” section of the Ars Technica forums – whose entire purpose is getting people to flame each other about this precise topic – or even if you take it to the geekhack “off topic” section, you’ll get plenty of responses (though you might want to write your comment a bit more carefully – e.g. spelling “do” correctly – if you want to avoid getting flamed about your writing instead of the topic).

On this thread, however, it continues to be off topic. Someone answering your question here would be what we call “feeding the troll”.

[dorkvader]

Yes yes apple is the best the worst the everything. We should talk about them in every topic and none of them. Let's call things what they are and what they aren't. Apologize for everything and nothing. Keep it here and take it elsewhere.
Lets call that the "back on topic" line. Close call there.

So I don't think the apple aluminum domes stiffen noticeably over time. I've typed on a few hundred of them and they are all about the same. It's true that the domes do get a little stiffer but it's not that much given the use.

That said, apple has been knows for changing and updating their keyboards over the years. The Macbook pro unibody (2008 - 2013 ish) had a change in the keyboard design about in the middle of the run. The feel was mostly the same, but the scissor design was different and the keycaps are not cross compatible. It's very likely they have done the same here.

[jacobolus]

Since this is Geekhack, I wonder if anyone actually has copies of all the various types of Apple scissor switch keyboards from the past 13+ years (they’ve been using them since at least the TiBook of ~2001; not sure about earlier Apple laptops; edit: I think that’s at least since 1996, actually), and has taken them apart and compared the mechanisms.

It would be neat to trace the evolution of scissor switches over time. (For that matter, including non-Apple ones too. Who made the first scissor-switch keyboard, does anyone know?)

[dorkvader]

I only have experience with the following
12"G4
17" something or other.
every version of the MBP (2006-2008)
Every version of the mBP unibody (2008-2013ish)
Both versions of the MBP Retina from 2014
All versions of the MB air
Apple aluminium and wirelss keyboards provided with imacs since the white one.

So i've seen some of the earlier stuff but only have good experience with apple products from 2008 - 2014 Unfortunately I didn't get a look at that 2005 17" whatever they called it then KB or I'd have more info.

FWIW the air KB has even less travel than the MBP did until the retina came out. I couldn't tell a difference between the two MBP unibody keyboard revisions so I'm not sure how much of one there is. I think they might have changed it at least once on the air but I'm not 100% sure. We didn't see as many of those.

Oh and one powerbook 165C the first colour laptop apple made I guess. I tore it apart back in 2005 or so and don't remember the KB at all. I kept the screen around to make into a lamp though.

You'd think apple would announce keyboard changes "new and improved" "updated design" like other companies love to do, but they just end up getting rolled up into their catch all "365+ differences and changes from the last revision" statements.

[jacobolus]

You'd think apple would announce keyboard changes "new and improved" "updated design" like other companies love to do, but they just end up getting rolled up into their catch all "365+ differences and changes from the last revision" statements.

Nah, they only advertise stuff that they expect users to notice. “This keyboard feel slightly better than the previous one due to a slight change in the shape of the plastic pieces that we don’t actually want you to ever take apart and look at” just doesn’t fit their marketing story.

That is, the keyboard mechanism is an implementation detail, not a feature.

[tbc]

Hating on Apple is so cool, man.

You're cool, bro.

Yea, have never understood the vitriol against Apple keyboards. It's fine that some dislike them, but there are those that see Apple products as a kind of kryptonite to their geek cred.

I have one on my Macbook and like it, and it has arrow and function keys to boot. When I was looking for a new board I searched high and low and there wasn't one that offered the same functionality at the size desired, so I settled on the Poker with no dedicated arrow or function keys. They're good at different things.

i liked their tactility and LOVED the formfactor....but apple's ****ty caps are why i switched to mechs.  it takes me like 6 months to shine an abs spacebar, but it only takes 3 days on a macbook...

they're worse than filcos...which is pretty much my worst insult for keycaps.

[jacobolus]

i liked their tactility and LOVED the formfactor....but apple's ****ty caps are why i switched to mechs.  it takes me like 6 months to shine an abs spacebar, but it only takes 3 days on a macbook...

It’s funny, Yao wears through the black paint on her apple laptop keycaps pretty quickly, but I have one I used for hours a day for >5 years, and the keycaps look fairly new. I’m not sure if it has to do with fingernails scratching the surface, or with something caustic in some people’s sweat, or what.