Author Topic: The waiting game - Matias Ergo pro  (Read 31005 times)

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Offline litster

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Re: The waiting game - Matias Ergo pro
« Reply #50 on: Thu, 05 February 2015, 15:00:34 »
Has anyone taken delivery of the Ergo Pro from the first batch?  Anyone?

Offline h1ro

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Re: The waiting game - Matias Ergo pro
« Reply #51 on: Thu, 05 February 2015, 15:21:05 »
I emailed them and they said they were expecting delivery end of next week and when they were shipping customers would get an email for what it's worth.

Online hoggy

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Re: The waiting game - Matias Ergo pro
« Reply #52 on: Thu, 05 February 2015, 16:27:34 »
Sounds good to me.
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http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=54680.0

Offline litster

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Re: The waiting game - Matias Ergo pro
« Reply #53 on: Sat, 07 February 2015, 21:10:29 »
I emailed them and they said they were expecting delivery end of next week and when they were shipping customers would get an email for what it's worth.

Look forward to your review.  I just ordered one but won't be here until Late March/Early April.

Offline smknjoe

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Re: The waiting game - Matias Ergo pro
« Reply #54 on: Sun, 08 February 2015, 23:34:08 »
Bump. Still waiting for blank PBT. :p
SSKs for everyone!

Offline jacobolus

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Re: The waiting game - Matias Ergo pro
« Reply #55 on: Mon, 09 February 2015, 01:42:53 »
Bump. Still waiting for blank PBT. :p
Correct me if I’m wrong, Matias, but from what I understand the only PBT tooling so far is for the new keycap shapes (1.5u wide bottom row mods and spacebars, .75u wide arrows and special-function keys), with all the other standard-shaped caps being ABS. But the goal is eventually to buy tooling for doing all the other caps in thick PBT too, with no firm ETA on that.

Offline Matias

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Re: The waiting game - Matias Ergo pro
« Reply #56 on: Mon, 09 February 2015, 11:51:12 »
Bump. Still waiting for blank PBT. :p

Correct me if I’m wrong, Matias, but from what I understand the only PBT tooling so far is for the new keycap shapes (1.5u wide bottom row mods and spacebars, .75u wide arrows and special-function keys), with all the other standard-shaped caps being ABS. But the goal is eventually to buy tooling for doing all the other caps in thick PBT too, with no firm ETA on that.



Yes, but let me elaborate a little more.  We have PBT tooling for...

      R4_1x1.25
      R4_0.75x1

      R3_1x1.75
      R3_0.75x1

      R1_1x2.5
      R1_1.5x1
      R1_1.5x1.25
      R1_1.5x2.5
      R1_1.5x4.5

These are all the new keys that we needed for the Ergo Pro, plus a 4.5u spacebar.

We hope to have the rest by the end of this year.

Having said all that, for the Ergo Pro, we ended up doing all ABS caps.  We used the PBT tooling but injected ABS instead.  We did this for two reasons...

      1)  PBT is very difficult to print on.  Our normal UV printing process didn't adhere properly to it.

      2)  We tried lasering instead, but the resulting legend colours didn't match between ABS and PBT.

The only solution was to do both in ABS.  They're quite nice actually.

For the future, I think we're going to have to use dye sub printing on PBT.  We've already started working on this.

BTW, Ergo Pro production will be complete tomorrow.  The Mac ones are already done.  The PC ones will be ready tomorrow morning.  I'll be posting pictures soon after.

Thanks to everyone who so patiently waited!

I have to get up at 6am tomorrow, so I'm off to bed...


Offline jacobolus

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Re: The waiting game - Matias Ergo pro
« Reply #57 on: Mon, 09 February 2015, 12:01:38 »
Yes, but let me elaborate a little more.  We have PBT tooling for...

      [...]
      R1_1x2.5
      R1_1.5x1
      R1_1.5x1.25
      R1_1.5x2.5
      R1_1.5x4.5

Is the 1x2.5 key a convex spacebar shape? The 1.5x1 and 1.5x1.25 are both slightly concave, right?

Quote
Having said all that, for the Ergo Pro, we ended up doing all ABS caps.  We used the PBT tooling but injected ABS instead.  We did this for two reasons...
Ah, thanks for the clarification. So would those caps that you have PBT tooling for be available as PBT blanks any time? E.g. for someone who wanted to swap other PBT caps onto an Ergo Pro for the standard shaped keycaps.

Quote
For the future, I think we're going to have to use dye sub printing on PBT.  We've already started working on this.
Woo!

I’m not buying one myself but I’m very excited to test out other Bay Area people’s ErgoPros once they arrive. Great to hear they’re right at the finish line.

Offline Matias

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Re: The waiting game - Matias Ergo pro
« Reply #58 on: Mon, 09 February 2015, 20:54:31 »
Yes, but let me elaborate a little more.  We have PBT tooling for...

      [...]
      R1_1x2.5
      R1_1.5x1
      R1_1.5x1.25
      R1_1.5x2.5
      R1_1.5x4.5

Is the 1x2.5 key a convex spacebar shape? The 1.5x1 and 1.5x1.25 are both slightly concave, right?


1.5x2.5 and 1.5x4.5 are convex.  The rest are all concave.

R1_1x2.5 is the left Shift key for the Ergo Pro.



Quote
Having said all that, for the Ergo Pro, we ended up doing all ABS caps.  We used the PBT tooling but injected ABS instead.  We did this for two reasons...

Ah, thanks for the clarification. So would those caps that you have PBT tooling for be available as PBT blanks any time? E.g. for someone who wanted to swap other PBT caps onto an Ergo Pro for the standard shaped keycaps.


Yes, blanks are easy.  It's the printing that's difficult.



Quote
For the future, I think we're going to have to use dye sub printing on PBT.  We've already started working on this.

Woo!

I'm not buying one myself but I'm very excited to test out other Bay Area people's ErgoPros once they arrive. Great to hear they're right at the finish line.


Thanks!

Has been a very interesting experience, to say the least...  :-)



Offline h1ro

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Re: The waiting game - Matias Ergo pro
« Reply #59 on: Tue, 10 February 2015, 05:24:46 »
Another vote for blank PBT here.

Offline worzel666

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Re: The waiting game - Matias Ergo pro
« Reply #60 on: Tue, 10 February 2015, 19:03:15 »
If production is done , how long until this keyboard ships to the UK? Really excited to get my hands on it.

Offline pabloedvardo

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Re: The waiting game - Matias Ergo pro
« Reply #61 on: Fri, 13 February 2015, 04:19:45 »
Bump. Still waiting for blank PBT. :p

Correct me if I�m wrong, Matias, but from what I understand the only PBT tooling so far is for the new keycap shapes (1.5u wide bottom row mods and spacebars, .75u wide arrows and special-function keys), with all the other standard-shaped caps being ABS. But the goal is eventually to buy tooling for doing all the other caps in thick PBT too, with no firm ETA on that.


Having said all that, for the Ergo Pro, we ended up doing all ABS caps.  We used the PBT tooling but injected ABS instead.  We did this for two reasons...

      1)  PBT is very difficult to print on.  Our normal UV printing process didn't adhere properly to it.

      2)  We tried lasering instead, but the resulting legend colours didn't match between ABS and PBT.

The only solution was to do both in ABS.  They're quite nice actually.

For the future, I think we're going to have to use dye sub printing on PBT.  We've already started working on this.

Are you saying that the keycaps are printed and not laser etched? The website says they're laser etched (one of the reasons I ordered one!)

Offline Matias

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Re: The waiting game - Matias Ergo pro
« Reply #62 on: Mon, 16 February 2015, 12:51:05 »
Are you saying that the keycaps are printed and not laser etched? The website says they're laser etched (one of the reasons I ordered one!)


Yes, all the keycaps on the Ergo Pro are laser etched.

Future PBT keycaps may be laser etched or may be dyesub printed.  We're still researching options for those.



Another vote for blank PBT here.

We're going to be selling blanks VERY soon.



If production is done , how long until this keyboard ships to the UK? Really excited to get my hands on it.

Answered in my update.  See this post...


« Last Edit: Mon, 16 February 2015, 12:54:04 by Matias »

Offline Matias

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Production photos... The waiting game - Matias Ergo pro
« Reply #63 on: Mon, 16 February 2015, 12:52:40 »


Photos from the 1st production run have been posted...

         https://geekhack.org/?topic=53184.msg1643564#msg1643564

« Last Edit: Mon, 16 February 2015, 12:55:06 by Matias »

Offline batfink

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Re: The waiting game - Matias Ergo pro
« Reply #64 on: Tue, 17 February 2015, 09:14:31 »

How do you order a UK one? (I assume that will be ISO-like).
Orders page only lets you order the US layout.


Online hoggy

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Re: The waiting game - Matias Ergo pro
« Reply #65 on: Thu, 19 February 2015, 04:09:58 »
Mine has just arrived, yay! More details to follow.
GH Ergonomic Guide (in progress)
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=54680.0

Offline jacobolus

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Re: The waiting game - Matias Ergo pro
« Reply #66 on: Thu, 19 February 2015, 04:44:32 »
Mine has just arrived, yay! More details to follow.
We’re expecting your comprehensive “what it’s like to use this for 6 months” review... tomorrow.

Offline worzel666

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Re: The waiting game - Matias Ergo pro
« Reply #67 on: Thu, 19 February 2015, 07:53:17 »

How do you order a UK one? (I assume that will be ISO-like).
Orders page only lets you order the US layout.

I ordered mine from The Keyboard Company; www.keyboardco.com.

Offline Matias

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Re: The waiting game - Matias Ergo pro
« Reply #68 on: Fri, 20 February 2015, 10:31:20 »

Offline MykB77

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Re: The waiting game - Matias Ergo pro
« Reply #69 on: Fri, 20 February 2015, 10:35:21 »
Can't wait for a review on this.  I want to get this for my wife; she just started helping as VP union for her office and is typing 15 page docs regularly now.  She currently has the MS 4000 but the membrane is getting old and typing is getting harder.

Keep us posted, very interested in your opinions.  The collective group of knowledge here is amazing and this makes these reviews  the best on the web.

Online hoggy

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Re: The waiting game - Matias Ergo pro
« Reply #70 on: Sat, 21 February 2015, 04:13:04 »
After a using it for a day at at work, I like it. The build quality is very good.

A few pictures...
http://S987.photobucket.com/user/hoggyboard/matias%20ergo%20pro/story







« Last Edit: Mon, 23 February 2015, 07:16:02 by hoggy »
GH Ergonomic Guide (in progress)
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=54680.0


Offline jacobolus

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Re: The waiting game - Matias Ergo pro
« Reply #72 on: Sat, 21 February 2015, 06:34:55 »
black keys version in the work yes?
Huh? They’re already black...

Offline litster

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Re: The waiting game - Matias Ergo pro
« Reply #73 on: Sat, 21 February 2015, 13:23:02 »
Hoggy, how far apart can you separate the two halves with the included cables?  Thanks.

Offline bcredbottle

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Re: The waiting game - Matias Ergo pro
« Reply #74 on: Sat, 21 February 2015, 14:48:27 »

An unboxing / first impressions review has been posted on Reddit...


Oh, I'm glad someone got their keyboard.

(Edited for language, please play nice - Hoggy)
« Last Edit: Sun, 22 February 2015, 00:20:25 by hoggy »

Online hoggy

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Re: The waiting game - Matias Ergo pro
« Reply #75 on: Sat, 21 February 2015, 16:06:28 »
Litster, good question, I'll measure the distance on Monday. 
GH Ergonomic Guide (in progress)
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=54680.0

Online exitfire401

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Re: The waiting game - Matias Ergo pro
« Reply #76 on: Sat, 21 February 2015, 17:08:17 »
« Last Edit: Sun, 22 February 2015, 00:21:04 by hoggy »
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Offline bcredbottle

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Re: The waiting game - Matias Ergo pro
« Reply #77 on: Sat, 21 February 2015, 17:29:16 »

An unboxing / first impressions review has been posted on Reddit...


Oh, I'm glad someone got their keyboard. ########

Was this necessary?

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." It was not only necessary but also a moral duty.
« Last Edit: Sun, 22 February 2015, 00:21:45 by hoggy »

Offline Matias

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Re: The waiting game - Matias Ergo pro
« Reply #78 on: Sat, 21 February 2015, 18:56:36 »
Hoggy, how far apart can you separate the two halves with the included cables?  Thanks.


The cables are approx. 17 inches (43 cm) long.

If you need a longer one, it is a standard 3.5mm Male-to-Male TRRS cable.  Various lengths are available...

      http://www.amazon.ca/YCS-Basics-foot-3-5mm-conductor/dp/B00FJEGXLW

      http://www.ebay.ca/itm/3-5mm-male-to-male-4way-3ring-4pole-4conductor-TRRS-AV-cable-5FT-1-5M-/251165948134

      http://www.l-com.com/audio-video-thinline-35mm-cable-assemblies-male-to-male-4-circuit-tip-ring-ring-sleeve-trrs

That last site sells them in lengths from 3-ft all the way up to 100-ft.


Offline litster

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Re: The waiting game - Matias Ergo pro
« Reply #79 on: Sat, 21 February 2015, 19:08:47 »
Hoggy, how far apart can you separate the two halves with the included cables?  Thanks.


The cables are approx. 17 inches (43 cm) long.

If you need a longer one, it is a standard 3.5mm Male-to-Male TRRS cable.  Various lengths are available...

That last site sells them in lengths from 3-ft all the way up to 100-ft.


That 100-ft cable would be perfect for Elastigirl




Offline SilverRubicon

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Re: The waiting game - Matias Ergo pro
« Reply #80 on: Sun, 22 February 2015, 07:21:59 »
Just noticed that there is only a single CTRL key on the left side of the keyboard.  UGH.  As a developer, that makes this keyboard a non-starter.

Offline h1ro

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Re: The waiting game - Matias Ergo pro
« Reply #81 on: Sun, 22 February 2015, 08:24:05 »
@SilverRubicon on the Mac layout picture:

http://matias.ca/ergopro/pc/viewer/?p=3

It shows a control key on the right panel as well as the left. I don't know whether they changed the layout and haven't updated the picture, but if not I wonder if this is one of the DIP switch settings?

Offline ___

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Re: The waiting game - Matias Ergo pro
« Reply #82 on: Sun, 22 February 2015, 12:14:20 »
Just noticed that there is only a single CTRL key on the left side of the keyboard.  UGH.  As a developer, that makes this keyboard a non-starter.

Why? As a developer, it's trivial to program your computer (mac, linux or windows) to make the caps lock key act like another ctrl.

Offline SilverRubicon

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Re: The waiting game - Matias Ergo pro
« Reply #83 on: Sun, 22 February 2015, 13:07:57 »
Why? As a developer, it's trivial to program your computer (mac, linux or windows) to make the caps lock key act like another ctrl.

I don't know how that helps.  That simply places another key on the left hand side of the keyboard.  Having a set of command/opt/ctrl keys on both sides of the keyboard allows one to use both hands to avoid odd finger contortions.  I simply overlooked the fact that this keyboard only has a command key on the right hand side.  As a developer, I probably use a wider variety of odd keystrokes than a non developer.  Hence, more finger contortions.  That's a problem for me.  Would like to have the page keys replaced with an option or ctrl key.  Page up and down can be accomplished with shift-up/shift-down.

I don't know how I missed this but it jumped out at me in the 'unboxing' link above.

GOOD LORD, there is a ctrl key on the right.  At least it's a num lock on the pc layout and hopefully a ctrl key on the mac layout.
« Last Edit: Sun, 22 February 2015, 13:17:42 by SilverRubicon »

Offline ___

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Re: The waiting game - Matias Ergo pro
« Reply #84 on: Sun, 22 February 2015, 16:19:32 »
Ah, my mistake.

Online hoggy

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Re: The waiting game - Matias Ergo pro
« Reply #85 on: Mon, 23 February 2015, 12:54:33 »
SilverRubicon, I'm a developer too.  I'm sticking with the keyboard for a few weeks to get used to the layout (by which I mean I won't rotate back to my other keyboards), I'm  getting used to the single crtl pretty quickly, I think it'll be second nature by the end of this week.  Don't let that put you off.
GH Ergonomic Guide (in progress)
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Offline Matias

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Re: The waiting game - Matias Ergo pro
« Reply #86 on: Mon, 23 February 2015, 19:14:20 »
Having a set of command/opt/ctrl keys on both sides of the keyboard allows one to use both hands to avoid odd finger contortions.  I simply overlooked the fact that this keyboard only has a command key on the right hand side.  As a developer, I probably use a wider variety of odd keystrokes than a non developer.  Hence, more finger contortions.  That's a problem for me.  Would like to have the page keys replaced with an option or ctrl key.  Page up and down can be accomplished with shift-up/shift-down.


The subject of changing NumLock back to Ctrl key is being discussed in another thread.

Please voice your opinions there.


Offline smeggysmeg

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Re: The waiting game - Matias Ergo pro
« Reply #87 on: Fri, 27 March 2015, 13:46:47 »
The second batch says it will come in early April. How likely is that target?
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Offline billputer

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Re: The waiting game - Matias Ergo pro
« Reply #88 on: Fri, 27 March 2015, 14:29:39 »
The site now says "late April". I'm hoping for the first week of May.  ;)
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Offline smeggysmeg

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Re: The waiting game - Matias Ergo pro
« Reply #89 on: Fri, 27 March 2015, 22:25:18 »
I don't mind waiting the time I was told when I pre-ordered, but I'm a little uncomfortable with this added delay. They delivered 6 months behind with the first batch. Granted, it was a new product and they had to get it right before putting it on the market. But that should have given them a decent point of reference for making projections on the second batch. If they were up-front about the completion date, at the time of preorder, I would be completely satisfied with what I'm told. I really don't like this approach of silently pushing back delivery and hoping nobody notices - it makes me feel like I'm dealing with a dishonest company. Every substantial delivery delay needs to be announced to pre-order customers via email and explained, not hidden. That's just decent customer service. 

I guess I'm just venting. Ignore me.
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Offline billputer

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Re: The waiting game - Matias Ergo pro
« Reply #90 on: Fri, 27 March 2015, 23:56:36 »
I understand. It sucks when a product you've already ordered ships at a later date. Matias could be better about informing us. That said, I really value the contact he's had with the community, and I don't think we can blame him for the delays. Yeah, it sucks, but without dedicated people like Matias we'd all be typing on rubber domes. :-X
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Offline Matias

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Re: The waiting game - Matias Ergo pro
« Reply #91 on: Sun, 29 March 2015, 18:56:42 »
Sorry for the confusion...

We updated the notice to say that the 2nd production run had been sold out.

Production is still scheduled for April, but since it is just a few days from April, we thought it would be strange for it to say "shipping in April" after it's already April -- so we changed it to say "late April".  It's actually scheduled for mid-April.

Again, sorry for the confusion.


Offline jacobolus

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Re: The waiting game - Matias Ergo pro
« Reply #92 on: Sun, 29 March 2015, 19:14:40 »
By the way, Matias, I’d recommend sending a review unit to John Gruber of daringfireball.net, if he’d take it, and assuming his typing style isn’t so idiosyncratic to totally preclude using a split keyboard. He’s written several times over the years about how much he loves his Apple Extended Keyboard II, and he has a huge blog following.

Offline Matias

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Re: The waiting game - Matias Ergo pro
« Reply #93 on: Sun, 29 March 2015, 19:32:20 »
By the way, Matias, I'd recommend sending a review unit to John Gruber of daringfireball.net, if he'd take it, and assuming his typing style isn't so idiosyncratic to totally preclude using a split keyboard. He's written several times over the years about how much he loves his Apple Extended Keyboard II, and he has a huge blog following.


I'd love to send him one.  I've sent him stuff before, but he didn't reply to followup emails.  I assumed he was just busy (or overwhelmed by a huge volume of emails).

Mostly I think he's just happy with his AEK II and isn't looking for anything else.


Offline litster

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Re: The waiting game - Matias Ergo pro
« Reply #94 on: Sun, 29 March 2015, 20:57:23 »
or send one to Linus Tech Tips.  They get hundreds of thousands of views for each video they put out on youtube.


Offline Sc0tTy

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Re: The waiting game - Matias Ergo pro
« Reply #96 on: Sun, 19 April 2015, 08:32:14 »
Yeah the halves moving was one of the things I didn't like on my Freestyle
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Offline Matias

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Re: The waiting game - Matias Ergo pro
« Reply #97 on: Sun, 19 April 2015, 15:46:59 »
or send one to Linus Tech Tips.  They get hundreds of thousands of views for each video they put out on youtube.

Thanks for the suggestion.  We'll contact him when we have the next run done.



Yeah the halves moving was one of the things I didn't like on my Freestyle

I can understand how people would want to lock-in their preferred angle, but then you lose the flexibility of separation (which is worse).


Offline bcredbottle

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Re: The waiting game - Matias Ergo pro
« Reply #98 on: Sun, 19 April 2015, 16:24:35 »
Mr. Matias this keyboard is god damned brilliant. Perfectly weighted, acoustically pleasing, great layout. Well worth the wait. Could not have asked for a better board.   :thumb:

Offline jacobolus

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Re: The waiting game - Matias Ergo pro
« Reply #99 on: Mon, 20 April 2015, 03:30:47 »
Yeah the halves moving was one of the things I didn't like on my Freestyle

I can understand how people would want to lock-in their preferred angle, but then you lose the flexibility of separation (which is worse).
I wonder if putting the keyboard on a thin rubber mat like the ones fohat uses would help keep the two halves from sliding around, see https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=59308.0