Author Topic: distraction-free digital "typewriter"  (Read 15732 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline TopreFan333

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 422
Re: distraction-free digital "typewriter"
« Reply #50 on: Tue, 16 December 2014, 12:19:29 »
the thing I have against this entire ordeal  is that it's ANTI ERGONOMIC..

FOrces you to look downwards at the tiny screen..   tiny keyboard screwing with people's shoulders and wrists


No one who ACTUALLY does alot of keyboarding should be considering this for those reasons alone..

"tiny keyboard" -- where are you getting that? Oh right, you just made that up. "Forces you to look downward" -- you mean, like a laptop does? Also have you heard of touch typing? It's pretty amazing. I'm actually doing it right now. "Tiny screen" -- kind of the point. You're supposed to be typing, not noodling around on the screen.

Hey, if this thing isn't for you, that's great, don't buy it! But also maybe just admit that and move on from this "ordeal" instead of making up fake ergonomic arguments and disparaging people who might find it useful.

Offline tp4tissue

  • * Destiny Supporter
  • Posts: 13568
  • Location: Official Geekhack Public Defender..
  • OmniExpert of: Rice, Top-Ramen, Ergodox, n Females
Re: distraction-free digital "typewriter"
« Reply #51 on: Tue, 16 December 2014, 12:54:03 »
the thing I have against this entire ordeal  is that it's ANTI ERGONOMIC..

FOrces you to look downwards at the tiny screen..   tiny keyboard screwing with people's shoulders and wrists


No one who ACTUALLY does alot of keyboarding should be considering this for those reasons alone..

"tiny keyboard" -- where are you getting that? Oh right, you just made that up. "Forces you to look downward" -- you mean, like a laptop does? Also have you heard of touch typing? It's pretty amazing. I'm actually doing it right now. "Tiny screen" -- kind of the point. You're supposed to be typing, not noodling around on the screen.

Hey, if this thing isn't for you, that's great, don't buy it! But also maybe just admit that and move on from this "ordeal" instead of making up fake ergonomic arguments and disparaging people who might find it useful.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

bold statements.. But you're wrong, about everything.. LOLOLOL

I am the human incarnation of an ergonomics-GOD

Granted, my skills @ 135wpm is below some of the faster kids, but my creed is ergonomics not wpm-prowess..

If you speak with some of the faster people, people who pursue excellence in keyboarding, you'd see that they wholly agree with the Ergonomic situation.

The novice-collectors may give you a different speech, take heed that they don't know the first thing about keyboards, they just want to buy something and feel good about it.


What is your typing speed.. just so I know what I'm dealing with ... in terms of understanding of techinques, elevation, and rhythm-parsing

Offline vivalarevolución

  • Posts: 2146
  • Location: Naptown, Indiana, USA
  • Keep it real b/c any other way is too stressful
Re: distraction-free digital "typewriter"
« Reply #52 on: Tue, 16 December 2014, 13:37:58 »
the thing I have against this entire ordeal  is that it's ANTI ERGONOMIC..

FOrces you to look downwards at the tiny screen..   tiny keyboard screwing with people's shoulders and wrists


No one who ACTUALLY does alot of keyboarding should be considering this for those reasons alone..

"tiny keyboard" -- where are you getting that? Oh right, you just made that up. "Forces you to look downward" -- you mean, like a laptop does? Also have you heard of touch typing? It's pretty amazing. I'm actually doing it right now. "Tiny screen" -- kind of the point. You're supposed to be typing, not noodling around on the screen.

Hey, if this thing isn't for you, that's great, don't buy it! But also maybe just admit that and move on from this "ordeal" instead of making up fake ergonomic arguments and disparaging people who might find it useful.


Actually, having to look down at a screen during a computing/typing experience is an important consideration for ergonomic purposes.  The proper screen height allows you to look forward without looking up or down or sideways or diagonal or backwards or whatever.  Just straight at the screen with your work at eye level and without strain on your neck from being in an uncomfortable position.  From that standpoint, a laptop is completely unergonomic, because proper screen height means the keyboard is in a ridiculously high position for your arms, and proper keyboard position means the screen is too low.  You might be able to feel the strain on your neck after a long laptop session.

What we are doing a lot of here is focusing on why this product does not fit our standards and why it will not be a commercial success.  We probably are some of those trolls that are being discussed in the Kickstarter comments.  If you know the basics of starting and running a business, you will know that picky trolls like us are not the target market or people that deserve the creator's attention.  Focus on your target market.

I see one major boon of this product that nothing else on the market provides: a person can take a high-quality typing device into an off-grid situation for a couple weeks at summer camp or traveling or whatever, not worry about charging it up, envision themselves writing the next "For Emma, Forever Ago" or "Walden," save the work to the machine, and upload that baby into your home computer for editing when you get back to civilization.

I find it interesting that this product and other typewriter-inspired projects (Qwerkywriter, USB typewriter, mock typewriter keycaps) keep popping up.  If I mention my typewriter collection to old folks, most people old enough to use typewriters despise the devices because of the frustration and inconvenience for editing and revising documents.  Now we have younger generations for which typewriters are some nostalgic novelty of simpler times that they never lived in.  Go figure.

Meanwhile, if you go back far enough in history, you will find many detractors of the typewriter, because handwriting purists feared it would product too much quantity without concern for quality.  And now with computers, we do produce too much quantity and not enough quality, because no forethought is put into the writing with the ease of editing and revision that we can do later.  I'm sure that if you read this far in my post, you would believe that I have too much quantity and not enough quality.  My point exactly.
Wish I had some gif or quote for this space, but I got nothing

Offline TopreFan333

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 422
Re: distraction-free digital "typewriter"
« Reply #53 on: Tue, 16 December 2014, 13:47:40 »
If you know the basics of starting and running a business, you will know that picky trolls like us are not the target market or people that deserve the creator's attention.  Focus on your target market.

Exactly.

Offline tp4tissue

  • * Destiny Supporter
  • Posts: 13568
  • Location: Official Geekhack Public Defender..
  • OmniExpert of: Rice, Top-Ramen, Ergodox, n Females
Re: distraction-free digital "typewriter"
« Reply #54 on: Tue, 16 December 2014, 13:47:45 »
the thing I have against this entire ordeal  is that it's ANTI ERGONOMIC..

FOrces you to look downwards at the tiny screen..   tiny keyboard screwing with people's shoulders and wrists


No one who ACTUALLY does alot of keyboarding should be considering this for those reasons alone..

"tiny keyboard" -- where are you getting that? Oh right, you just made that up. "Forces you to look downward" -- you mean, like a laptop does? Also have you heard of touch typing? It's pretty amazing. I'm actually doing it right now. "Tiny screen" -- kind of the point. You're supposed to be typing, not noodling around on the screen.

Hey, if this thing isn't for you, that's great, don't buy it! But also maybe just admit that and move on from this "ordeal" instead of making up fake ergonomic arguments and disparaging people who might find it useful.


Actually, having to look down at a screen during a computing/typing experience is an important consideration for ergonomic purposes.  The proper screen height allows you to look forward without looking up or down or sideways or diagonal or backwards or whatever.  Just straight at the screen with your work at eye level and without strain on your neck from being in an uncomfortable position.  From that standpoint, a laptop is completely unergonomic, because proper screen height means the keyboard is in a ridiculously high position for your arms, and proper keyboard position means the screen is too low.  You might be able to feel the strain on your neck after a long laptop session.

What we are doing a lot of here is focusing on why this product does not fit our standards and why it will not be a commercial success.  We probably are some of those trolls that are being discussed in the Kickstarter comments.  If you know the basics of starting and running a business, you will know that picky trolls like us are not the target market or people that deserve the creator's attention.  Focus on your target market.

I see one major boon of this product that nothing else on the market provides: a person can take a high-quality typing device into an off-grid situation for a couple weeks at summer camp or traveling or whatever, not worry about charging it up, envision themselves writing the next "For Emma, Forever Ago" or "Walden," save the work to the machine, and upload that baby into your home computer for editing when you get back to civilization.

I find it interesting that this product and other typewriter-inspired projects (Qwerkywriter, USB typewriter, mock typewriter keycaps) keep popping up.  If I mention my typewriter collection to old folks, most people old enough to use typewriters despise the devices because of the frustration and inconvenience for editing and revising documents.  Now we have younger generations for which typewriters are some nostalgic novelty of simpler times that they never lived in.  Go figure.

Meanwhile, if you go back far enough in history, you will find many detractors of the typewriter, because handwriting purists feared it would product too much quantity without concern for quality.  And now with computers, we do produce too much quantity and not enough quality, because no forethought is put into the writing with the ease of editing and revision that we can do later.  I'm sure that if you read this far in my post, you would believe that I have too much quantity and not enough quality.  My point exactly.

Don't feel bad.. Tp4 is the equalizer to all of GH's stunted writing..   My work resembles a relativistic jet that cuts through the dark abyss..


Offline TopreFan333

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 422
Re: distraction-free digital "typewriter"
« Reply #55 on: Tue, 16 December 2014, 13:48:31 »

I am the human incarnation of an ergonomics-GOD
Show Image


See, now you're just babbling. I'm done. Byeeeeeee

Offline tp4tissue

  • * Destiny Supporter
  • Posts: 13568
  • Location: Official Geekhack Public Defender..
  • OmniExpert of: Rice, Top-Ramen, Ergodox, n Females
Re: distraction-free digital "typewriter"
« Reply #56 on: Tue, 16 December 2014, 13:49:45 »

I am the human incarnation of an ergonomics-GOD
Show Image


See, now you're just babbling. I'm done. Byeeeeeee

No, i'm not.. it's a fact..

you're young and n00bish,  I get it,  but don't be ignorant of overwhelming evidence against your miniscule knowledge.

Offline TopreFan333

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 422
Re: distraction-free digital "typewriter"
« Reply #57 on: Tue, 16 December 2014, 13:55:02 »
you're young and n00bish,  I get it,  but don't be ignorant of overwhelming evidence against your miniscule knowledge.

Sure, I'm "noobish" but you're a straight up internet troll and an *******.

Offline tp4tissue

  • * Destiny Supporter
  • Posts: 13568
  • Location: Official Geekhack Public Defender..
  • OmniExpert of: Rice, Top-Ramen, Ergodox, n Females
Re: distraction-free digital "typewriter"
« Reply #58 on: Tue, 16 December 2014, 14:00:20 »
you're young and n00bish,  I get it,  but don't be ignorant of overwhelming evidence against your miniscule knowledge.

Sure, I'm "noobish" but you're a straight up internet troll and an *******.

Nope. again, not true.. I'm an ergonomics authority.. You're the troll, whose barely making pace with the little knowledge you have...

Offline vivalarevolución

  • Posts: 2146
  • Location: Naptown, Indiana, USA
  • Keep it real b/c any other way is too stressful
Re: distraction-free digital "typewriter"
« Reply #59 on: Tue, 16 December 2014, 14:02:58 »
this is wonderful, we are back on the playground calling each other names.
Wish I had some gif or quote for this space, but I got nothing

Offline tp4tissue

  • * Destiny Supporter
  • Posts: 13568
  • Location: Official Geekhack Public Defender..
  • OmniExpert of: Rice, Top-Ramen, Ergodox, n Females
Re: distraction-free digital "typewriter"
« Reply #60 on: Tue, 16 December 2014, 14:07:02 »
this is wonderful, we are back on the playground calling each other names.

I'm not.. he is..

Tp4 has demonstrated nothing but decorum as a tolerant and patient expert.

He doesn't ask questions, he merely denies the very real wall of authoritative knowledge in front of him..

Offline jacobolus

  • Posts: 3661
  • Location: San Francisco, CA
Re: distraction-free digital "typewriter"
« Reply #61 on: Tue, 16 December 2014, 14:34:06 »
Actually, having to look down at a screen during a computing/typing experience is an important consideration for ergonomic purposes.  The proper screen height allows you to look forward without looking up or down or sideways or diagonal or backwards or whatever.  Just straight at the screen with your work at eye level and without strain on your neck from being in an uncomfortable position.  From that standpoint, a laptop is completely unergonomic, because proper screen height means the keyboard is in a ridiculously high position for your arms, and proper keyboard position means the screen is too low.  You might be able to feel the strain on your neck after a long laptop session.
There seems to be some disagreement about this.

See https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=63234

Offline jdcarpe

  • * Curator
  • Posts: 8852
  • Location: Odessa, TX
  • Live long, and prosper.
Re: distraction-free digital "typewriter"
« Reply #62 on: Tue, 16 December 2014, 14:35:33 »
dchadwick, are you a shill for this product, or what? tp4 notwithstanding, you can't seem to stand even the slightest criticism of the product's design or implementation. I think it's a novel product, that probably has a valid purpose within a very niche market. But it's not a perfect piece of technology, by any means.

Anyway, true hipster would simply buy a manual typewriter and carry that along to the coffee shop to do some distraction-free writing. Excellent mechanical interface, with a built-in printer to produce easily readable hard copy output. Energy saving design, with Energy Star certification rating.
KMAC :: LZ-GH :: WASD CODE :: WASD v2 :: GH60 :: Alps64 :: JD45 :: IBM Model M :: IBM 4704 "Pingmaster"

http://jd40.info :: http://jd45.info


in memoriam

"When I was a kid, I used to take things apart and never put them back together."

Offline tp4tissue

  • * Destiny Supporter
  • Posts: 13568
  • Location: Official Geekhack Public Defender..
  • OmniExpert of: Rice, Top-Ramen, Ergodox, n Females
Re: distraction-free digital "typewriter"
« Reply #63 on: Tue, 16 December 2014, 14:38:16 »
dchadwick, are you a shill for this product, or what? tp4 notwithstanding, you can't seem to stand even the slightest criticism of the product's design or implementation. I think it's a novel product, that probably has a valid purpose within a very niche market. But it's not a perfect piece of technology, by any means.

Anyway, true hipster would simply buy a manual typewriter and carry that along to the coffee shop to do some distraction-free writing. Excellent mechanical interface, with a built-in printer to produce easily readable hard copy output. Energy saving design, with Energy Star certification rating.

If dchadwick is a shill.. The company that hired him should probably demand their money back...

Offline jacobolus

  • Posts: 3661
  • Location: San Francisco, CA
Re: distraction-free digital "typewriter"
« Reply #64 on: Tue, 16 December 2014, 14:40:45 »
you're young and n00bish,  I get it,  but don't be ignorant of overwhelming evidence against your miniscule knowledge.

Sure, I'm "noobish" but you're a straight up internet troll and an *******.
Don’t worry dchadwick, if you hang out around here you’ll get used to tp4 soon enough. As trolls go, he’s a pretty mild one, he often has interesting things to say, and it’s unlikely that he’ll change or leave anytime soon, so the folks here learn to tolerate him and even appreciate his, erm, unique style. In any event, he’s really not worth working yourself up about.

Offline tp4tissue

  • * Destiny Supporter
  • Posts: 13568
  • Location: Official Geekhack Public Defender..
  • OmniExpert of: Rice, Top-Ramen, Ergodox, n Females
Re: distraction-free digital "typewriter"
« Reply #65 on: Tue, 16 December 2014, 14:51:32 »
^^^  that doesn't change the fact that Tp4 is right about the faulty ergonomics in this device's design principle..



Offline vivalarevolución

  • Posts: 2146
  • Location: Naptown, Indiana, USA
  • Keep it real b/c any other way is too stressful
Re: distraction-free digital "typewriter"
« Reply #66 on: Tue, 16 December 2014, 15:06:30 »

Anyway, true hipster would simply buy a manual typewriter and carry that along to the coffee shop to do some distraction-free writing. Excellent mechanical interface, with a built-in printer to produce easily readable hard copy output. Energy saving design, with Energy Star certification rating.

Distraction-free for you, but not for everyone else.  And tell my Selectric that it's an energy saver.

Actually, having to look down at a screen during a computing/typing experience is an important consideration for ergonomic purposes.  The proper screen height allows you to look forward without looking up or down or sideways or diagonal or backwards or whatever.  Just straight at the screen with your work at eye level and without strain on your neck from being in an uncomfortable position.  From that standpoint, a laptop is completely unergonomic, because proper screen height means the keyboard is in a ridiculously high position for your arms, and proper keyboard position means the screen is too low.  You might be able to feel the strain on your neck after a long laptop session.
There seems to be some disagreement about this.

See https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=63234

Interesting.  The tilt of the screen definitely has an effect.  All I know is that my neck hurts from screens are too low/not enough tilt.  But research with a population of 1 isn't worth much.

Wish I had some gif or quote for this space, but I got nothing

Offline jdcarpe

  • * Curator
  • Posts: 8852
  • Location: Odessa, TX
  • Live long, and prosper.
Re: distraction-free digital "typewriter"
« Reply #67 on: Tue, 16 December 2014, 15:55:53 »

Anyway, true hipster would simply buy a manual typewriter and carry that along to the coffee shop to do some distraction-free writing. Excellent mechanical interface, with a built-in printer to produce easily readable hard copy output. Energy saving design, with Energy Star certification rating.

Distraction-free for you, but not for everyone else.  And tell my Selectric that it's an energy saver.

Haha I meant more along the lines of an old Remington, Royal, Olympus, etc. Real manual keyboards, not electrics. :)

And people think Model Ms are loud
KMAC :: LZ-GH :: WASD CODE :: WASD v2 :: GH60 :: Alps64 :: JD45 :: IBM Model M :: IBM 4704 "Pingmaster"

http://jd40.info :: http://jd45.info


in memoriam

"When I was a kid, I used to take things apart and never put them back together."

Offline baldgye

  • Will Smith Disciple
  • Posts: 4780
  • Location: UK
Re: distraction-free digital "typewriter"
« Reply #68 on: Tue, 16 December 2014, 16:09:34 »
Idk how I can be anything other than vague with my reply but:
Make it look like something new, not something trying to be something else
Design it to be cheaper

The form factor to me seems more or less appropriate. I mean, how many different shapes could a thing built around a keyboard and a screen have? It looks like a typewriter, and is trying to evoke the form and function of one. Seems to line up pretty well with the design goals. Speaking of the keyboard (and the price) they could easily have shaved a BUNCH off the price by putting whatever cheapo membrane keyboard onto it but they didn't. IF I was in the market for this thing, I would not be wanting them to make it $100 cheaper by skimping on the hardware.

What are you talking about?
Who said anything about removing the tiny PCB with cherry switches and cheap caps on?
And why is a small pcb, a handful of switches and some cheap caps worth $100? That's almost the price of a full size Filco or Ducky...

So please, what the **** are you chatting about?

Offline vivalarevolución

  • Posts: 2146
  • Location: Naptown, Indiana, USA
  • Keep it real b/c any other way is too stressful
Re: distraction-free digital "typewriter"
« Reply #69 on: Tue, 16 December 2014, 16:48:50 »

Anyway, true hipster would simply buy a manual typewriter and carry that along to the coffee shop to do some distraction-free writing. Excellent mechanical interface, with a built-in printer to produce easily readable hard copy output. Energy saving design, with Energy Star certification rating.

Distraction-free for you, but not for everyone else.  And tell my Selectric that it's an energy saver.

Haha I meant more along the lines of an old Remington, Royal, Olympus, etc. Real manual keyboards, not electrics. :)

And people think Model Ms are loud

WHAP!  WHAP!  WHAP!  goes the typewriter in the coffee shop.
Wish I had some gif or quote for this space, but I got nothing

Offline Altis

  • Posts: 974
  • Location: Canada
Re: distraction-free digital "typewriter"
« Reply #70 on: Tue, 16 December 2014, 19:26:54 »

Anyway, true hipster would simply buy a manual typewriter and carry that along to the coffee shop to do some distraction-free writing. Excellent mechanical interface, with a built-in printer to produce easily readable hard copy output. Energy saving design, with Energy Star certification rating.

Distraction-free for you, but not for everyone else.  And tell my Selectric that it's an energy saver.

Actually, having to look down at a screen during a computing/typing experience is an important consideration for ergonomic purposes.  The proper screen height allows you to look forward without looking up or down or sideways or diagonal or backwards or whatever.  Just straight at the screen with your work at eye level and without strain on your neck from being in an uncomfortable position.  From that standpoint, a laptop is completely unergonomic, because proper screen height means the keyboard is in a ridiculously high position for your arms, and proper keyboard position means the screen is too low.  You might be able to feel the strain on your neck after a long laptop session.
There seems to be some disagreement about this.

See https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=63234

Interesting.  The tilt of the screen definitely has an effect.  All I know is that my neck hurts from screens are too low/not enough tilt.  But research with a population of 1 isn't worth much.

Fortunately, there have been lots of studies looking at the effect of looking downwards on your neck.

Here's an interpretation of one of the most recent and in-depth studies I know of:

http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/shortcuts/2014/nov/24/text-neck-how-smartphones-damaging-our-spines

There's some interesting figures there about weights of the stresses. Although it talks mostly of smartphone usage, it applies to anything that you tilt your head down for.

This device with it's small screen right against the keyboard will be absolutely atrocious in terms of ergonomics.

It's clear that those who designed this device had only one goal in mind, and took nothing else into consideration by the looks of things.
WhiteFox (Gateron Brown) -- Realforce 87U 45g -- Realforce 104UG (Hi Pro 45g) -- Realforce 108US 30g JIS -- HHKB Pro 2 -- IBM Model M ('90) -- IBM Model M SSK ('87) -- NMB RT-101 & RT-8255C+ (Hi-Tek Space Invaders) -- Chicony KB-5181 (Monterey Blue Alps) -- KPT-102 (KPT Alps) -- KUL ES-87 (62/65g Purple Zealios) -- CM QFR (MX Red) -- Apple Aluminum BT -- Realforce 23u Numpad -- Logitech K740 -- QSENN DT-35 -- Zenith Z-150 (Green Alps)

Offline vivalarevolución

  • Posts: 2146
  • Location: Naptown, Indiana, USA
  • Keep it real b/c any other way is too stressful
Re: distraction-free digital "typewriter"
« Reply #71 on: Tue, 16 December 2014, 21:06:17 »
That angle of neck tilt seems much more drastic than the angle studied in the ergonomic research.  I would be wary to throw them in the same category.  How that compares to how much one would bend their neck to look at the Hemingwrite is yet to be seen.  I could simulate the angle by looking at the end of my keyboard, but who knows.  The device will certainly have some adjustments before the final release.
Wish I had some gif or quote for this space, but I got nothing

Offline jacobolus

  • Posts: 3661
  • Location: San Francisco, CA
Re: distraction-free digital "typewriter"
« Reply #72 on: Tue, 16 December 2014, 22:00:12 »
Fortunately, there have been lots of studies looking at the effect of looking downwards on your neck. Here's an interpretation of one of the most recent and in-depth studies I know of: http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/shortcuts/2014/nov/24/text-neck-how-smartphones-damaging-our-spines

[...] This device with it's small screen right against the keyboard will be absolutely atrocious in terms of ergonomics.
Did you bother reading the “study” cited there? It in no way supports your assertion.
https://cbsminnesota.files.wordpress.com/2014/11/spine-study.pdf

Here is their “method”:
Quote
A model of the cervical spine was created with realistic values in Cosmosworks, a finite element assessment package. Calculations were made and then forces were extracted in newtons and then converted into pounds. We made the calculations using neck + head,

If that’s an “in-depth study” it’s hard to imagine what the ones that don’t go “in depth” are like. It says absolutely nothing about real-world strain experienced by people doing any particular task in any particular way, and certainly isn’t a useful assessment of long-term injury risks. All they did is make a mathematical model (without as far as I can tell any empirical validation whatsoever, so whether the model is remotely accurate is anyone’s guess) and then measure how much force is required according to their model to support the head when it’s tilted different amounts in a particular way.

In general, looking at a laptop, or a typewriter, or this new device) is a dramatically different type of activity from looking down at a smartphone held close to the chest. When you look at a laptop display or typewriter output or whatever, it’s often possible to point the eyes downward without tilting the head down very much (or at all).
« Last Edit: Tue, 16 December 2014, 22:12:29 by jacobolus »

Offline Oobly

  • * Esteemed Elder
  • Posts: 3929
  • Location: Finland
Re: distraction-free digital "typewriter"
« Reply #73 on: Wed, 17 December 2014, 01:43:51 »
As a person with an interest in both mechanical keyboards and typewriters, I am intrigued by any device that attempts to combine the two, which is why this product is persisting in my thoughts this morning.  I wonder if a device with wifi, bluetooth, on-board storage, e-ink screen, and an USB slot for hooking up your own keyboard, but without an embedded keyboard, could be produced for a lower price and easier portability?  Imagine an Amazon Kindle, but for the purpose of writing, not reading, and with a USB slot for a keyboard. Maybe the e-reader capabilities could be maintained, to draw in a bigger market.  But ditch all the other distractions of our portable electronic devices.  An attached keyboard will suck up battery life, but the device could have a beefed-up battery to deal with such energy drains.

That sort of device would have a limited market compared to e-readers, so I doubt a big company like Amazon would take the dive.  I guess that's were entrepreneurs step in.  Also, I understand that Nook mod does the same thing, but does not seem to have the e-ink screen or the battery life.

I showed the Hemingwrite to a co-worker and, being in her forties, she noted the device reminded her of word processing machines from her high school days, but with wifi and wireless capabilities.


I think you can simply use your existing mobile device (phone / tablet / ebook reader with some app capability) and use a compact mechanical keyboard and some good software. By that I mean that you can set the device to flight mode and / or the app can run fullscreen without notifications, etc bugging you. I envisage adding a slot to the back of the keyboard and a MicroUSB OTG plug to connect it, with a battery in the front of the keyboard as a counterweight (so it balances even with a "heavy" device like an Galaxy Tab or iPad in the slot and also when used on a lap) and to provide longer typing time. Ideally the board would be around 40% size and as compact as it can be while still using good mechanical switches.

I agree with you that a more multipurpose device has a larger market and that as a writer you don't want to have to lug extra stuff everywhere unless it truly impacts your ability to write in a big way. A good, familiar and easy to use compact mechanical keyboard could add enough value to be worth it. Can also be

I'd like to produce something like this and have actually started to design a layout for it, really minimal (36 keys or so), inspired the Hammond Varityper like the one Tolkien used to use :) I want to build at least one for my own use, maybe more if there are enough people interested.

To clarify:  would you design a device to include a keyboard?

I'm sure you know, but plenty of apps are available that create an uncluttered and distraction-free writing experience on your device.  But they don't offer the more visually pleasing e-ink screen and long battery life.

I'm simply theorizing here, but I wonder if the majority of potential buyers of would prefer a device with or without a keyboard.  Without an attached keyboard, it reduces costs, you don't have to worry about those extra moving parts breaking down, added flexibility for the typist, and most people are not picky about the keyboard they use, so why jack up the entry price with an integrated expensive mechanical keyboard?  With the integrated keyboard, you have everything in one device, I am sure that many people would prefer to have everything in one device for convenience's sake and they are not too picky about the type of keyboard.

I think you misunderstand.. The device IS a keyboard. Which makes up half of the system. Your mobile phone or tablet is the other half.

The "product" is the keyboard with a slot to mount your phone / tablet / ereader into and a MicroUSB connector you plug into it. It also has a battery to act as a counterweight and extend the usage time of the system (ie, long battery life). The point of it is to provide a convenient, compact and familiar keyboard interface (which feels like a top quality computer keyboard or electric typewriter) for you to work on your text anywhere. The software is already written (JotterPad for Android, WriteRoom for iOS, etc). It would be more compact and thinner than a Poker II (only 36 keys), while being made of quality materials and components so as to be durable and portable. It will use standard size keys, probably DSA profile caps.

The essential difference between my concept and the Hemingwrite is that you use your existing mobile device as the display and storage system, while using a high quality mechanical keyboard to work on your documents. It works together as a unit once the device is mounted, so you can work with it on your lap, on a desk, table, etc like a laptop computer, only both more portable AND giving a better typing experience. You already carry one half of it with you everywhere (phone).

If you want to have an e-ink display for it, you can use something like the Onyx Boox Lynx. The combination of Lynx and this keyboard will cost less than a HemingWrite. For the more adventurous out there the Nook GLowlight can also be made to support an external keyboard, but it requires some hacking. I'm sure there are more devices out there with e-ink displays that support USB OTG and will work with this keyboard. Guess I'll have to research that a bit more. Not really important until after I've built the first unit, though, since I'll be building it for my own use initially.

It has quite a number of benefits over the HemingWrite: You can use any app that runs on your device and even write your own if you have the skill. All the connectivity you require is already there, you already have methods to transfer data in and out your phone to where it needs to be (for instance, JotterPad has DropBox integration). It's a system you're already used to. It's more portable and thus more convenient. It can be used to extend the battery life of your phone in an emergency. It can be used for more than just typing with a typing app, you can use it for all text input on your mobile device, essentially turning it into a laptop, but with more portability and better typing feel.
Buying more keycaps,
it really hacks my wallet,
but I must have them.

Offline vivalarevolución

  • Posts: 2146
  • Location: Naptown, Indiana, USA
  • Keep it real b/c any other way is too stressful
Re: distraction-free digital "typewriter"
« Reply #74 on: Wed, 17 December 2014, 05:52:12 »
Thanks for the clarification, Oobly.  That's an interesting idea.  EDIT:  Various similar keyboards exist, but without the same features and compact size of your vision.  A couple Matias keyboards come to mind.

Matias One keyboard:  http://matias.ca/onekeyboard/
Matias Laptop Pro:  http://matias.ca/laptoppro/mac/

What interests me the most is the Onyx Boox Lynx that you mentioned.  Is that an e-ink tablet with all the functionality of a normal tablet?  I was not even aware that a fully functional tablet with an e-ink display was on the market.  I think Onyx might be a brand of e-reader more visible in Europe.  And then USB OTG will allow any USB device to be plugged into the receiving, and the device serves as a host?

Sorry for the dumb questions, I'm only a keyboard-phile, not much of a technophile.
« Last Edit: Wed, 17 December 2014, 08:21:12 by prdlm2009 »
Wish I had some gif or quote for this space, but I got nothing

Offline ideus

  • * Exalted Elder
  • Posts: 8123
  • Location: In the middle of nowhere.
  • Björkö.
Re: distraction-free digital "typewriter"
« Reply #75 on: Wed, 17 December 2014, 07:24:55 »
Dear Oobly: Do you have a layout for the mini board you are developing?, or maybe you have a render?. If you do, it may be a good idea to open an "interested thread" just for the sake of getting other users input.

Offline vivalarevolución

  • Posts: 2146
  • Location: Naptown, Indiana, USA
  • Keep it real b/c any other way is too stressful
Re: distraction-free digital "typewriter"
« Reply #76 on: Wed, 17 December 2014, 08:47:06 »
On another note, the possibility for owning a high-quality, wireless keyboard, pairing it with a device with an e-ink screen, using a distraction-free writing app, and having extended battery life already seems to exist, as Oobly has informed me.  What the Hemingwrite offers is attractive styling and the all-in-one feature.  If we can learn anything from Apple, we know that consumers love those two things in their computing devices.  If somebody wanted the writing environment and keyboard quality that this item provides, they can have it, if they search hard enough and get the tiniest bit creative.
Wish I had some gif or quote for this space, but I got nothing

Offline Oobly

  • * Esteemed Elder
  • Posts: 3929
  • Location: Finland
Re: distraction-free digital "typewriter"
« Reply #77 on: Wed, 17 December 2014, 13:37:44 »
Dear Oobly: Do you have a layout for the mini board you are developing?, or maybe you have a render?. If you do, it may be a good idea to open an "interested thread" just for the sake of getting other users input.

Here's a rough first draft:http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/14856d7a527ded5b003552b45a5204e0

The original concept had the Sym and Fig keys either side of the spacebar and no Ctrl or Alt. It'll be fully programmable, with 2 function layers (Sym and Fig), so all numbers and symbols can be typed. You can even create macros for things like copy / paste, etc.

It should have a micro USB socket to hook it to a PC (in which case the PC charges the battery and it can be used as a keyboard at the same time) or charger to charge the battery. Then it'll have a Micro USB OTG cable with 90 degree plug to hook up to whatever device you choose to use it with. The groove at the top will be rubber lined so you can simply rest the tablet / phone in the slot, plug in the cable and start typing. The cable will be looped once in a loose loop inside the case so it can extend to whatever height the USB port is on the device without getting in the way / being messy.

For Android devices there could be a version with a Trackpoint also. I may consider a more solid way of securing the device so it is more of a unit when in use and the user doesn't have to worry about their device separating from the main unit.
Buying more keycaps,
it really hacks my wallet,
but I must have them.

Offline vivalarevolución

  • Posts: 2146
  • Location: Naptown, Indiana, USA
  • Keep it real b/c any other way is too stressful
Re: distraction-free digital "typewriter"
« Reply #78 on: Wed, 17 December 2014, 13:56:40 »
Dear Oobly: Do you have a layout for the mini board you are developing?, or maybe you have a render?. If you do, it may be a good idea to open an "interested thread" just for the sake of getting other users input.

Here's a rough first draft:http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/14856d7a527ded5b003552b45a5204e0

The original concept had the Sym and Fig keys either side of the spacebar and no Ctrl or Alt. It'll be fully programmable, with 2 function layers (Sym and Fig), so all numbers and symbols can be typed. You can even create macros for things like copy / paste, etc.

It should have a micro USB socket to hook it to a PC (in which case the PC charges the battery and it can be used as a keyboard at the same time) or charger to charge the battery. Then it'll have a Micro USB OTG cable with 90 degree plug to hook up to whatever device you choose to use it with. The groove at the top will be rubber lined so you can simply rest the tablet / phone in the slot, plug in the cable and start typing. The cable will be looped once in a loose loop inside the case so it can extend to whatever height the USB port is on the device without getting in the way / being messy.

For Android devices there could be a version with a Trackpoint also. I may consider a more solid way of securing the device so it is more of a unit when in use and the user doesn't have to worry about their device separating from the main unit.

No tab key on that layout?
Wish I had some gif or quote for this space, but I got nothing

Offline Oobly

  • * Esteemed Elder
  • Posts: 3929
  • Location: Finland
Re: distraction-free digital "typewriter"
« Reply #79 on: Wed, 17 December 2014, 15:42:21 »
...

No tab key on that layout?

Oops.. As I said, it's a rough first draft. Here's an updated one: http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/1c1bd9f4e3dec57b95517d11263913a2

It makes it somehow a little more pleasing to my eye, too.

I have tried to keep only the most essential keys for typing prose on the main layer, so as to minimise the size. It's inspired by the Hammond Varityper / Multiplex that JRR Tolkien used to use: http://tonyriches.blogspot.fi/2014/06/j-r-r-tolkiens-writing-habits.html

Another example: http://offountainpenstypewriters.blogspot.fi/2014/10/latest-addition-to-collection-hammond.html

And a pic for those who don't want to click through the links:


I suppose this would be more accurate as a tribute to the actual typewriter, but I prefer the more modern and slightly more compact layout I posted above: http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/335b0e7f08658422b28fafc58d40d30c
« Last Edit: Wed, 17 December 2014, 15:44:11 by Oobly »
Buying more keycaps,
it really hacks my wallet,
but I must have them.

Offline jdcarpe

  • * Curator
  • Posts: 8852
  • Location: Odessa, TX
  • Live long, and prosper.
Re: distraction-free digital "typewriter"
« Reply #80 on: Wed, 17 December 2014, 15:45:53 »
Oops.. As I said, it's a rough first draft. Here's an updated one: http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/1c1bd9f4e3dec57b95517d11263913a2

Looks like a JD40 ;D

Which was designed around those old 3-bank typewriter keyboards, anyway...
KMAC :: LZ-GH :: WASD CODE :: WASD v2 :: GH60 :: Alps64 :: JD45 :: IBM Model M :: IBM 4704 "Pingmaster"

http://jd40.info :: http://jd45.info


in memoriam

"When I was a kid, I used to take things apart and never put them back together."

Offline vivalarevolución

  • Posts: 2146
  • Location: Naptown, Indiana, USA
  • Keep it real b/c any other way is too stressful
Re: distraction-free digital "typewriter"
« Reply #81 on: Wed, 17 December 2014, 16:03:51 »
Awesome.  Hammond's were great machines.  Along with the Blickensderfer, they were the Selectric before the Selectric.  Interchangeable fonts.
Wish I had some gif or quote for this space, but I got nothing

Offline Oobly

  • * Esteemed Elder
  • Posts: 3929
  • Location: Finland
Re: distraction-free digital "typewriter"
« Reply #82 on: Thu, 18 December 2014, 01:57:25 »
Oops.. As I said, it's a rough first draft. Here's an updated one: http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/1c1bd9f4e3dec57b95517d11263913a2

Looks like a JD40 ;D

Which was designed around those old 3-bank typewriter keyboards, anyway...

I love the JD40 and think it's nicely designed so that you can use standard size keycaps for a rectangular key block for a PC keyboard. I can't wait to see people post pics of their JD40 with the Green Tea set on :) This has a slightly different use case.

Biggest difference is the extra key to the right of "L" and use of all 1x keycaps except spacebar. This allows it to be set up for a larger choice of layouts (Dvorak, Colemak, etc) and the use of more keycap sets (if they offer a few extra 1x blanks / novelties).

Some further notes about the layout in general: Since people are used to indexing from edges / corners and the positions of the blank keys relative to the edges and corners are the same as normal (except for Tab), it should be easy to get used to typing on and a little less fatiguing due to having to move your hands less to reach the furthest keys (like Backspace and Ctrl for example).

I will be prototyping the layout on a GON NerD60 PCB in the near future and may come up with some further changes based on initial testing, but the physical layout is likely to stay the same. I will also be testing it for various PC-based functionality, such as text editing / coding, but more for interests sake and it shouldn't influence the design as much as the primary use case of writing prose on a portable device as effortlessly and intuitively as possible with a great feeling keyboard.

I'll make a separate thread for this idea soon. I think I've gone off-topic a bit too much.

@prdlm2009: I agree, great machines, albeit pricey in their day. A quote from the first article I linked to: "The Hammond Varitype was the most advanced ‘word processor’ of its day and produced such fine work that they were used as "cold typesetting" devices, to prepare camera-ready copy for printing."
Buying more keycaps,
it really hacks my wallet,
but I must have them.

Offline Oobly

  • * Esteemed Elder
  • Posts: 3929
  • Location: Finland
Re: distraction-free digital "typewriter"
« Reply #83 on: Fri, 19 December 2014, 03:31:24 »
Buying more keycaps,
it really hacks my wallet,
but I must have them.

Offline jdcarpe

  • * Curator
  • Posts: 8852
  • Location: Odessa, TX
  • Live long, and prosper.
Re: distraction-free digital "typewriter"
« Reply #84 on: Fri, 19 December 2014, 08:31:32 »
Quote
Biggest difference is the extra key to the right of "L" and use of all 1x keycaps except spacebar. This allows it to be set up for a larger choice of layouts (Dvorak, Colemak, etc) and the use of more keycap sets (if they offer a few extra 1x blanks / novelties).

Ah, you're right. I was really thinking of the JD45 (JD45 Keyboard by Carpe Keyboards).

Something is wrong with the site, and I couldn't quote your post directly, Oobly.
KMAC :: LZ-GH :: WASD CODE :: WASD v2 :: GH60 :: Alps64 :: JD45 :: IBM Model M :: IBM 4704 "Pingmaster"

http://jd40.info :: http://jd45.info


in memoriam

"When I was a kid, I used to take things apart and never put them back together."