Out of the Loop: beserkfan and IvanIvanovich scams

[Dihedral]

Below is my current understanding, for my own reference, and to help other returning and new users.

Collated Information

beserkfan AKA gutz

• Had a fire-sale of his collection

• Sale suffered from several issues:
        • Items sold twice
        • Items sent to wrong recipients
        • Items mislabelled
        • Many users not receiving what they brought

• Many payments made through non-refundable channels of payment
        • These channels officially not for commerce, but for sending money (ex. PayPal Gifts)
        • May imply malicious intent on the part of beserkfan
        • May be, as he claimed, simply because of issues with his PayPal

• Fallout
        • beserkfan claims to have financially suffered from this fiasco
        • beserkfan is banned from selling again on this site
        • beserkfan has been inactive for several months now
        • Many purchasers did not receive their goods
        • Many purchasers were unable to get refunded due to the use of non-refundable channels of payment
        • Potentially, many users have 'profited' by receiving, and keeping, goods that others purchased.

IvanIvanovich AKA Ivan, lysol

• IvanIvanovich was at this time a Global Moderator

• Was holding three concurrent group buys
        • RS84              - 80% Kit Keyboard                       - Link
        • PBT Dark       - PBT Cherry Profile Keyset         - Link
        • Miami Nights - GMK Doubleshot keyset            - Link

• Group-buys dragged on for a long time
        • IvanIvanovich continually claimed that he was 'busy' and that the GBs would be fullfilled

• GB Purchasers contacted suppliers, who confirmed that no orders had been placed
        • GMK said that the order process had come to an 'abrupt end' - Link

• By this time, the PayPal refund limit was long-gone
        • This was taken as a sign of IvanIvanovich's malicious intent - to delay until refunds were impossible

• The GBs were never fulfilled

• RS Keyboards offered a choice between a one-time discount or a 10 free boards raffle to all RS84 GB Participants - Link
        • User redbanshee is currently negotiating the organisation of the raffle on behalf of the GB participants - Link

• Users considered legal action but costs and logistics were too difficult to pursue this course.

• Fallout
        • IvanIvanovich lost Global Moderator standing
        • IvanIvanovich has not been active for many months
                • His account has been left active in the hope that he will at some point return to apologise
        • Almost all GB Participants received nothing for their money
        • Estimates at the amount of money lost range from $17,000 to $40,000
        • Triggered site-wide discussion on the effectiveness of the GB system
                • Led many users to question if Group Buys were ever a safe way to purchase goods, considering such a high-profile betrayal



Original Post text:
Sorry for bringing up what appears to be a painful topic, but in the time that I've been much less active on geekhack, it seems that there's been a lot of drama surrounding these two GH users, whom I remember being well respected. Could anyone who understands the context / chronology of these events please enlighten me as to what's gone terribly wrong while I've been away. Thanks.

[slip84]

Ivan left with a ****load of money for stuff he never delivered.

[suicidal_orange]

Berserk sold too much stuff in a very disorganised way which appears to have lead to him selling some things multiple times.  Packages that did arrive often had different usernames on - not necessarily in the right country or from the right forum, and generally weren't correct.  Prior to this he allegedly had paypal problems so most payments were paypal gift or other methods with no refund which makes it look more suspicious.

Whether it was intentional or he really had duplicate items and the good stuff has been kept quietly by lucky people is for you to decide, but he's been banned from selling anything here and been inactive ever since.

[fohat.digs]

a lot of drama surrounding these two  formerly respected GH users

I was not involved with the Ivan deal, but Gutz took $100 from me, after a number of seemingly sincere email conversations, and sent me nothing whatsoever.

[xondat]

Ivan had a few group buys going, and was constantly reassuring everyone that he was busy. He never submitted group buy orders to the manufacturers and ran away with something like $40k (that's what I heard).

Beserkfan was moving house, had lots of keyboard related stuff he didn't want so he sold/gave most of it away. Due to the amount he had, he was overwhelm, asked his wife to pack them which meant that basically no one got the right things, even if they paid.

[Dihedral]

a lot of drama surrounding these two  formerly respected GH users

I was not involved with the Ivan deal, but Gutz took $100 from me, after a number of seemingly sincere email conversations, and sent me nothing whatsoever.

By respected I meant that when I was here previously, I remember them being respected. It sucks to be scammed like that. Does it look like that money is now completely gone?

[Dihedral]

Ivan had a few group buys going, and was constantly reassuring everyone that he was busy. He never submitted group buy orders to the manufacturers and ran away with something like $40k (that's what I heard).

Beserkfan was moving house, had lots of keyboard related stuff he didn't want so he sold/gave most of it away. Due to the amount he had, he was overwhelm, asked his wife to pack them which meant that basically no one got the right things, even if they paid.

Which group buys were they?

[xondat]

RS84, PBT Dark, and Miami Nights/CMYKv2.

[Wannabe]

a lot of drama surrounding these two  formerly respected GH users

I was not involved with the Ivan deal, but Gutz took $100 from me, after a number of seemingly sincere email conversations, and sent me nothing whatsoever.

By respected I meant that when I was here previously, I remember them being respected. It sucks to be scammed like that. Does it look like that money is now completely gone?

With Ivan yes our money is probably completely gone at this point. It was well beyond the Paypal refund period before we figured out what was going on, and at least for RS84 III we didn't know it was gone until his Chinese distributor posted saying he had never received an order placement from him. Many people tried contacting him through every means possible with no response. There was talk of trying to bring legal/criminal actions against him, but it would really require to have someone be in the same state as he is, and nothing ever came of it.

[reaper]

Man, I still can't believe lysol did that...   and with that much money, no one went after him?

[romevi]

a lot of drama surrounding these two  formerly respected GH users

I was not involved with the Ivan deal, but Gutz took $100 from me, after a number of seemingly sincere email conversations, and sent me nothing whatsoever.

By respected I meant that when I was here previously, I remember them being respected. It sucks to be scammed like that. Does it look like that money is now completely gone?

With Ivan yes our money is probably completely gone at this point. It was well beyond the Paypal refund period before we figured out what was going on, and at least for RS84 III we didn't know it was gone until his Chinese distributor posted saying he had never received an order placement from him. Many people tried contacting him through every means possible with no response. There was talk of trying to bring legal/criminal actions against him, but it would really require to have someone be in the same state as he is, and nothing ever came of it.

What state does he live in? Is he in the Midwest?

[Dihedral]

Man, I still can't believe lysol did that...   and with that much money, no one went after him?

I assume by lysol you refer to IvanIvanovich?

[reaper]

I assume by lysol you refer to IvanIvanovich?

That's the name when he first joined GH.

[Dihedral]

I assume by lysol you refer to IvanIvanovich?

That's the name when he first joined GH.

Ah, I see.

[jdcarpe]

a lot of drama surrounding these two  formerly respected GH users

I was not involved with the Ivan deal, but Gutz took $100 from me, after a number of seemingly sincere email conversations, and sent me nothing whatsoever.

By respected I meant that when I was here previously, I remember them being respected. It sucks to be scammed like that. Does it look like that money is now completely gone?

With Ivan yes our money is probably completely gone at this point. It was well beyond the Paypal refund period before we figured out what was going on, and at least for RS84 III we didn't know it was gone until his Chinese distributor posted saying he had never received an order placement from him. Many people tried contacting him through every means possible with no response. There was talk of trying to bring legal/criminal actions against him, but it would really require to have someone be in the same state as he is, and nothing ever came of it.

What state does he live in? Is he in the Midwest?

Iowa

[Hellcatz]

We tried. Bit was way too late to do anything at that point. A year had already passed and no one was willing to do anything at that point. Legal fees if we decided to go that route would have been high and would be impossible to get funds for unless you have super deep pockets ( most don't or would rather spend it on other stuff )

[Dihedral]

I assume by lysol you refer to IvanIvanovich?

That's the name when he first joined GH.

We tried. Bit was way too late to do anything at that point. A year had already passed and no one was willing to do anything at that point. Legal fees if we decided would have been high and would be impossible to get funds for unless you have super deep pockets ( most don't or would rather spend it on other stuff )

I think you've quoted the wrong post there. It's a horrible example of abuse of reputation within a community like this. It goes to show.... if it can happen to a GB run by a Global Mod, it can happen to any GB.

[Hellcatz]

One of Ivan's group buy (RS84) were able to get the product they ordered though the generosity of the supplier. But I guess we're not all that lucky. Good for then tho.

[Dihedral]

One of Ivan's group buy (RS84) were able to get the product they ordered though the generosity of the supplier. But I guess we're not all that lucky. Good for then tho.

Did people chose the 'raffle' eventually?

EDIT: Read through the thread and I see that redbanshee is organising the raffle with RS.

[Wannabe]

One of Ivan's group buy (RS84) were able to get the product they ordered though the generosity of the supplier. But I guess we're not all that lucky. Good for then tho.

Just to clarify, participants in the buy have not received their keyboard. The distributor has kindly offered to either offer a discount on buying directly through him or a raffle of 10 keyboards. The participants chose the raffle, but it has not occurred yet. I would guess that there are more than 10 people in the raffle so not everyone will get a keyboard.

[Hellcatz]

Still better then nothing.

[ideus]

I really do not understand the idea of the thread, if it is only for your private account on the subject the reading that you already made should be suffice, if you want to help the victims of the scams is different, still, I do not see what you could add in the benefit of the people involved.

Also, I consider the usage of the term drama to refer to these conflicts as an insult for the people affected; because they lost money, so it was not something out of sentiments, but it was about actual economic losses.

[xondat]

Drama is the wrong term. A better word would've been scam )

[keyladding]

Without knowing history we are doomed to repeating the past.

[Dihedral]

I really do not understand the idea of the thread, if it is only for your private account on the subject the reading that you already made should be suffice, if you want to help the victims of the scams is different, still, I do not see what you could add in the benefit of the people involved.

Also, I consider the usage of the term drama to refer to these conflicts as an insult for the people affected; because they lost money, so it was not something out of sentiments, but it was about actual economic losses.

The intent of this thread was so I could understand what had happened as I wasn't frequenting this forum as often when this came to light. I used drama before I realised the scope of this scam or fraud, and will change the topic title accordingly. The information in the OP is so I can have, for the sake of reference, a reasonably accurate chronology of events. I feel terrible for all those who lost money in this but as you say, I don't think I can personally do anything to help and I don't make this post with intent to help those involved.

[Dihedral]

Drama is the wrong term. A better word would've been scam )

Yes, I see that now. Corrected.

[tp4tissue]

To clarify.

Ivan is a clear cut scam.


Berserk fan was a major shipping debacle,  that became Impossible to fix, when user -rootwyrm- prematurely filed claims against Berserkfan.. 

Pulling out the rug from under Berserkfan from being able to initiated and carry through the fix, WHICH WAS IN PROGRESS... Until -Rootwyrm made it impossible-..

[xondat]

You know what happened last time you got involved tp

both are scammers, simply put, and nothing is going to ever be complete

[tp4tissue]

You know what happened last time you got involved tp

both are scammers, simply put, and nothing is going to ever be complete

Not true.

Scam has to be intentional..

While both outcomes may have been Sour..


Ivan did it purposefully..


Berserk fan made massive shipping errors..  then WHILE TRYING TO FIX THAT MISTAKE,  was pushed OUT of the loop..



Berserk fan is at fault for the shipping errors,  but rectification was made as impossibly bad as it was due to the malicious thwarting of --rootwyrm--

[Hellcatz]

I really do not understand the idea of the thread, if it is only for your private account on the subject the reading that you already made should be suffice, if you want to help the victims of the scams is different, still, I do not see what you could add in the benefit of the people involved.

Also, I consider the usage of the term drama to refer to these conflicts as an insult for the people affected; because they lost money, so it was not something out of sentiments, but it was about actual economic losses.

Not a bad idea to set up another GB for those who got scammed. Perhaps we can work out a deal with the original manufacturer to see if we can get a cheaper run.

[Hellcatz]

You know what happened last time you got involved tp

both are scammers, simply put, and nothing is going to ever be complete

Not true.

Scam has to be intentional..

While both outcomes may have been Sour..


Ivan did it purposefully..


Berserk fan made massive shipping errors..  then WHILE TRYING TO FIX THAT MISTAKE,  was pushed OUT of the loop..



Berserk fan is at fault for the shipping errors,  but rectification was made as impossibly bad as it was due to the malicious thwarting of --rootwyrm--

Ivan didn't try to scam us until he got into a bad accident. Bills pilled up and one thing lead to another. Now I'm not trying to justify anything or defend him. He's still a **** for scamming us. I just want to clarify the situation

[tp4tissue]

You know what happened last time you got involved tp

both are scammers, simply put, and nothing is going to ever be complete

Not true.

Scam has to be intentional..

While both outcomes may have been Sour..


Ivan did it purposefully..


Berserk fan made massive shipping errors..  then WHILE TRYING TO FIX THAT MISTAKE,  was pushed OUT of the loop..



Berserk fan is at fault for the shipping errors,  but rectification was made as impossibly bad as it was due to the malicious thwarting of --rootwyrm--

Ivan didn't try to scam us until he got into a bad accident. Bills pilled up and one thing lead to another. Now I'm not trying to justify anything or defend him. He's still a **** for scamming us. I just want to clarify the situation

I am not an expert on the Ivan situation. 


But what transpired with Berserk fan is compeletly different,  He was here making things happen, despite not reporting immediately, as it would've done nothing..

There was a budget to pay people back,  there was also coordination for proxies setup for swapping packages..

None of that was able to happen after his overseas payment system was locked out..  and he was Wrongfully chastised by the Community,  (mostly Rootwyrm)

Rootwyrm clearly was the one who made everything go from difficult to impossible.

[fohat.digs]

TP needs to shut up with his irrelevant obfuscation.

Every single item and package should have been well on its way at least 2 weeks before rootwyrm made his first post.

Nothing about Paypal or rootwyrm or anything else said or done after mid-May excuses or changes the fact that everything that was going to happen needed to have happened by about the 2nd week of May, and it was (or should have been) out of Berserk's hands and done at that point.

My recollection was that Berserk made a post early in May stating that it was taken care of and was out the door.

[Dihedral]

I think I understand the situation now to a reasonable extent and don't want this thread to become a pointless 5 page argument so, with thanks to all those who have helped me, am going to lock it now.