@ fohat.. Berserkfan Shipping-Debacle, The Story Continued.

[tp4tissue]

I just wished he(berserk) replied to my emails about my package if it was even shipped or not.

All I got was an email from ben goh asking about my address but, that was it

should I still be waiting for something? I never filed thinking there was still a chance of getting something at least.

Hi audax989,  sorry to hear that..


If you have not received a package at this point, and you paid through paypal, you should file a complaint and get a refund if possible.



Unfortunately because of --Rootwyrm's-- actions in pushing out Berserkfan..

Berserkfan had no longer been responding to any support inquiries involving the sale..
 

[fohat.digs]

He will eventually settle with paypal collections.

Berserkfan TOOK responsibility,

Everything that you say is "general" and vapid, as well as false with regard to my situation.

I have never "taken sides" with anyone, I even defended Goh until very recently, and have only ever asked for honesty.

Paypal is irrelevant in my case, because he asked me to pay via cash Moneygram and I did what he asked.

There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that he intends to take responsibility to fulfill his obligation to me.

[tp4tissue]

He will eventually settle with paypal collections.

Berserkfan TOOK responsibility,

I have never "taken sides" with anyone, I even defended Goh until very recently, and have only ever asked for honesty.

There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that he intends to take responsibility to fulfill his obligations.

Yes you have taken sides,

There are several posts of you thanking --rootwyrm and skysphoric-- for their Bullcrap efforts to HELP the community..

Their efforts/ wrongful accusation and public ostracizing is exactly what drove Berserkfan away..

Mind you, the ONLY person who could leverage users to report their received packages..



No evidence ?  What evidence do you have that this had been a scam..

He clearly said he was working to coordinate swaps..

He clearly said he is budgeting additional money , his own money..



Tp4 was also in personal communication with Berserk fan on setting up proxies and the legal measures he may eventually need to make.



If he had been a scammer,  He would not have done any of those things..  Just pick up and go, why bother..?

[fohat.digs]

There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that he intends to take responsibility to fulfill his obligations.

Tp4 was also in personal communication with Berserk fan on setting up proxies and the legal measures he may eventually need to make.

If you are speaking about reality, then speak about real plans and real timetables. Otherwise there is nothing for you to say.

As I said, no one has ever communicated one single word to me on how they intend to remedy my loss.

Everything else is meaningless.

[tp4tissue]

There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that he intends to take responsibility to fulfill his obligations.

Tp4 was also in personal communication with Berserk fan on setting up proxies and the legal measures he may eventually need to make.

As I said, no one has ever communicated one single word to me on how they intend to remedy my loss.

You are ridiculously selfish..



But the fact remains, this event involved many people.. Unfortunately some of them were innocent of all of it, and merely caught in the crossfire.

YOU were not one of these people, you lost your right to that box, as soon as you went on --Rootwyrm's wagon--


Because The entire time Berserkfan was still willing to work towards coordinating shipping, setting up proxies for package swaps and put in additional funds ($2000) towards rectifying the situation for those affected.



When you sided with --Rootwyrm-- along with that entire section of users,  you became part of the problem which pushed out Berserkfan, The only person willing and Actually Capable of sorting the mess out.


There were no personal communications AT THE TIME,  because the things you ordered are in limbo, there was no determination as to where they were, so the order could not be fulfilled as listed..

SO,  regardless of any Commnication, nothing could be done about specific cases..   The packages had to arrive first, and be tallied..


This was all in progress

[jdcarpe]

With regard to the double sold items:

http://statutes.agc.gov.sg/aol/search/display/view.w3p;ident=bffe7cbf-b039-47e9-9614-11145a289d26;page=0;query=DocId%3A%22025e7646-947b-462c-b557-60aa55dc7b42%22%20Status%3Ainforce%20Depth%3A0;rec=0

More

Cheating

Cheating

415.  Whoever, by deceiving any person, whether or not such deception was the sole or main inducement, fraudulently or dishonestly induces the person so deceived to deliver any property to any person, or to consent that any person shall retain any property, or intentionally induces the person so deceived to do or omit to do anything which he would not do or omit to do if he were not so deceived, and which act or omission causes or is likely to cause damage or harm to any person in body, mind, reputation or property, is said to “cheat”.

[51/2007]

     Explanation 1.—A dishonest concealment of facts is a deception within the meaning of this section.
     Explanation 2.—Mere breach of contract is not of itself proof of an original fraudulent intent.
     Explanation 3.—Whoever makes a representation through any agent is to be treated as having made the representation himself.

[51/2007]

Illustrations

...
     (i)     A sells and conveys an estate to B. A, knowing that in consequence of such sale he has no right to the property, sells or mortgages the same to Z without disclosing the fact of the previous sale and conveyance to B, and receives the purchase or mortgage money from Z. A cheats.


Punishment for cheating

417.  Whoever cheats shall be punished with imprisonment for a term which may extend to 3 years, or with fine, or with both.

[51/2007]

[Indian PC 1860, s. 417]

[fohat.digs]

Unfortunately some of them were innocent of all of it, and merely caught in the crossfire.

So your current premise is that because I stopped defending Chen-Fong Goh in public a couple of weeks ago, that gives him license to keep my money and renege on our agreement, with impunity, in a fit of emotional pique?

The answer to that question is one word "yes" or "no"

[tp4tissue]

With regard to the double sold items:

http://statutes.agc.gov.sg/aol/search/display/view.w3p;ident=bffe7cbf-b039-47e9-9614-11145a289d26;page=0;query=DocId%3A%22025e7646-947b-462c-b557-60aa55dc7b42%22%20Status%3Ainforce%20Depth%3A0;rec=0

More

Cheating

Cheating

415.  Whoever, by deceiving any person, whether or not such deception was the sole or main inducement, fraudulently or dishonestly induces the person so deceived to deliver any property to any person, or to consent that any person shall retain any property, or intentionally induces the person so deceived to do or omit to do anything which he would not do or omit to do if he were not so deceived, and which act or omission causes or is likely to cause damage or harm to any person in body, mind, reputation or property, is said to “cheat”.

[51/2007]

     Explanation 1.—A dishonest concealment of facts is a deception within the meaning of this section.
     Explanation 2.—Mere breach of contract is not of itself proof of an original fraudulent intent.
     Explanation 3.—Whoever makes a representation through any agent is to be treated as having made the representation himself.

[51/2007]

Illustrations

...
     (i)     A sells and conveys an estate to B. A, knowing that in consequence of such sale he has no right to the property, sells or mortgages the same to Z without disclosing the fact of the previous sale and conveyance to B, and receives the purchase or mortgage money from Z. A cheats.


Punishment for cheating

417.  Whoever cheats shall be punished with imprisonment for a term which may extend to 3 years, or with fine, or with both.

[51/2007]

[Indian PC 1860, s. 417]

The law is correct.

However, the mistakes on the double sold were not intentional..


One guy keeping track of 100s of items,  No search function in Geekhack messages,

Different payment timings from users..


We're used to Amazon .com,    but this is just Berserkfan the person, not even Berserkfan.com

[tp4tissue]

Unfortunately some of them were innocent of all of it, and merely caught in the crossfire.

So your current premise is that because I stopped defending Chen-Fong Goh in public a couple of weeks ago, that gives him license to keep my money and renege on our agreement, with impunity, in a fit of emotional pique?

I am saying that You were Part of THE MOB, of which Pushed out Berserkfan from being able to help you guys.


In that way, however lesser a quantity, you too were part of the Event which lead to the Final Outcome..


While it remains true that you are owed a box, Berserkfan made the larger mistake, but you Also have yourself to blame.

Concurring and buddying up to --Rootwyrm's-- mob, was a mistake, and had you thought about it longer, you'd see that they are NOT an option at all, because they had NO DOCUMENTATION of anything..


Most simply, you could think of it as allying the army which owned no guns and no bullets.

But by lending them credibility as you have,  that conscription replaced the Only standing army which COULD'VE salvaged the situation.

[chuckdee]

One show of the good faith that can be had in this situation is JD Carpe.  The group buy went tits up because of circumstances outside of his control, initiated by a capricious entity.

He communicated clearly and transparently, realizing that he had people's funds- people who had trusted him.  He communicated intent to rectify the situation.  And he worked towards it with the help of the community.

That's what I'm talking about in regards to taking responsibility, and should be the model for such interactions.

Things will go wrong.  That's understandable.  But what's not understandable and should not be tolerated is for people to stop being communicative when people trusted them with their money, or to just throw up their hands and walk away.

That should never be acceptable nor accepted behavior.

I ask something of everyone involved in this thread.  Can we please stop responding?  It's obvious that logic nor rationality is going to prevail in this case, so if we just stop responding, there won't be any more fodder to keep this wound to the community open and bleeding, and perhaps we can start moving past it.  And every time someone brings up one of these situations asking for a needless explanation, can we just point them to the thread that was locked?  Having this brought up every few months isn't helpful to the community as a whole.  There's no way to rectify any of these situations at this point.  The person has to be a grown up, and its obvious that in these cases, the person wasn't willing to take the responsibility required to rectify it as a grown up. 

The nature of group buys requires trust.  But having these aberrations continually focused on is going to kill that as a community, or at least deaden the interest.  And all of us will lose.

[tp4tissue]

I ask something of everyone involved in this thread.  Can we please stop responding?  It's obvious that logic nor rationality is going to prevail in this case, so if we just stop responding, there won't be any more fodder to keep this wound to the community open and bleeding, and perhaps we can start moving past it.

This Wound is one that YOU , one of 3 main people along with Rootwyrm, Skysphoric, caused.


So you do a bad thing.. You guys Damage the community,  and now here you want to close this thread which exposes and properly Record keeps the Order of events..


That is a low place to go, you want this to all go away, when your actions are very much among the causes of the worst outcome to have happened..

Berserkfan is in the wrong, that is for sure,   but it was by --YOU (chuckdee), Rootwyrm, and Sky's -- mob thread Which pushed out Berserkfan, who had only been trying to help you guys the entire time


Seriously, the Community?   Berserkfan is member with 400 topic starts, and thousands and thousands of posts..

He is far more a member of the community than The 3 of you lot put together.. 

[chuckdee]

I ask something of everyone involved in this thread.  Can we please stop responding?  It's obvious that logic nor rationality is going to prevail in this case, so if we just stop responding, there won't be any more fodder to keep this wound to the community open and bleeding, and perhaps we can start moving past it.

This Wound is one that YOU , one of 3 main people along with Rootwyrm, Skysphoric, caused.


So you do a bad thing.. You guys Damage the community,  and now here you want to close this thread which exposes and properly Record keeps the Order of events..


That is a low place to go, you want this to all go away, when you yourself are very much the cause of the worst outcome to have happened..

Berserkfan is in the wrong, that is for sure,   but it was by --Rootwyrm, YOU (chuckdee), and Sky's -- actions that the finality is so poorly actualized.

I never said close it.  And that's what you've done with your truth- twist things, and have no knowledge of things that make it into a lie.  And try to fault people that just wanted what they paid for, or a refund.

As I said, stop responding.  And I'm going to do that now, so you can have the last word if it's that important to you.  Seems childish to me, but there you go.  Have at it.  Or are you adult enough not to reply?

[tp4tissue]

I ask something of everyone involved in this thread.  Can we please stop responding?  It's obvious that logic nor rationality is going to prevail in this case, so if we just stop responding, there won't be any more fodder to keep this wound to the community open and bleeding, and perhaps we can start moving past it.

This Wound is one that YOU , one of 3 main people along with Rootwyrm, Skysphoric, caused.


So you do a bad thing.. You guys Damage the community,  and now here you want to close this thread which exposes and properly Record keeps the Order of events..


That is a low place to go, you want this to all go away, when your actions are very much among the causes of the worst outcome to have happened..

Berserkfan is in the wrong, that is for sure,   but it was by --YOU (chuckdee), Rootwyrm, and Sky's -- mob thread Which pushed out Berserkfan, who had only been trying to help you guys the entire time


Seriously, the Community?   Berserkfan is member with 400 topic starts, and thousands and thousands of posts..

He is far more a member of the community than The 3 of you lot put together.. 

I never said close it.  And that's what you've done with your truth- ,  try to fault people that just wanted what they paid for, or a refund.

As I said, stop responding.  And I'm going to do that now, so you can have the last word if it's that important to you.  Seems childish to me, but there you go.  Have at it.  Or are you adult enough not to reply?

I laid out the correct order of events, and the correct interpretation of what happened,  and explained indepth the possibility of taking actions on either camp..


What you're requesting now is an attempt to silence the Truth..

You are NOT at fault for wanting your money back.

I have always been in the position that EVERYONE is rightful to get what they paid for,


However, your ACTIONS along with --rootwyrm's mob-- impeded that possibility..

The dissonance created among the Users by You (CHuckdee) and Rootwyrm's mob is what Drove Berserkfan away from being able TO HELP YOU GUYS...

You are not responsible for Berserkfan's Shipping mistake,   But you and the mob ARE responsible for why Berserkfan has been unable to exercise HIS plan for proxy swaps, and repayment of people whos boxes were irrecoverable

[fohat.digs]

I am saying that You were Part of THE MOB, of which Pushed out Berserkfan from being able to help you guys.

Well, if you can call me part of "The Mob" because this is what I posted 4 days ago:

14 weeks today and I have officially given up and accepted that Gutz just totally stole my money and ripped me off.

TP has kept talking about Paypal and Rootwyrm and how I might have gotten a package later if the **** had not hit the fan, but we all know that the entire motivation behind the project was supposedly to get all the volume out of the door immediately before a move. So whatever would have been shipped was certain to be in a box and out the door by early May. The idea that he would cart the stuff to the new house and ship it from there is ludicrous.

I tried to defend him and keep a positive attitude all along, which makes me even more hurt and disappointed now.

My real regret is that I did what he asked and paid via moneygram via cash, so I have no recourse whatsoever.

[tp4tissue]

I am saying that You were Part of THE MOB, of which Pushed out Berserkfan from being able to help you guys.

Well, if you can call me part of "The Mob" because what I posted 4 days ago

You are part of the mob, because there were several posts made by you, personally thanking skysphoric/rootwyrm of their Malignant efforts to Sabotage Berserkfan's ability to rectify the shipping error with users..

Your allegiance to that Malicious Blood Crying crowd is why , as I've said, you share a portion of the blame as to why Berserkfan had been Pushed aside from Helping.


The record shows,   You are Owed, 1 box,  Berserkfan Screwed pooch on shipping, Berserkfan attempts recovery, --Rootwyrm-- Mobs, You ally with --Rootwyrm--,  Berserfan's been pushed out,   Lies and misinformation on part of --Rootwyrm camp-- continues, 

Tp4, Public Defender, Champion of Justice, Unbiased Record Keeper, steps in to Correctly interpret the Order of events.

[fohat.digs]

there were several posts made by you, personally thanking skysphoric/rootwyrm and their Malignant efforts to Sabotage Berserkfan's ability to rectify the shipping error with users..

You should Google the term "reality" and find out what it means.

Skysophrenic's cross-reference is the only comprehensive list in existence that could even begin to untangle the byzantine mayhem that was left in the wake of whatever happened in Singapore during the first week of May.

Unless, of course, Gutz himself has an accurate accounting of what went out, to whom, and when, that he is just keeping to himself.

[tp4tissue]

there were several posts made by you, personally thanking skysphoric/rootwyrm and their Malignant efforts to Sabotage Berserkfan's ability to rectify the shipping error with users..

Skysophrenic's cross-reference is the only comprehensive list in existence that could even begin to untangle the byzantine mayhem that was left in the wake of whatever happened in Singapore during the first week of May.

Unless, of course, Gutz himself has an accurate accounting of what went out, to whom, and when, that he is just keeping to himself.

Sky's crossreference is also totally useless..


This is a matrix game with players.

Under sky's list, None of the players who got either the equivalent or more than what they paid for could be forced into play.

Whereas, had we used Berserkfan's list, though we do not know what were in the packages, we know WHO got one, and what it weighed..


In that way, Leverage was possible to at least get those people who did not report to Partially Fess up...




With sky's list, there is also no way to check if those players were honest about what they received, because absolutely NO INFORMATION is available besides self-report..


With Berserk's list, if someone was less than truthful, we could say, this box weighed 5 lbs, you're definitly shorting, because you only posted 2 bags of keycaps.


So YOU SEE,,Skysophrenic's List,   that ONLY LIST in existence, is ONE that UNRAVELS NOTHING..

[fohat.digs]

****ing A

[tp4tissue]

****ing A

Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha.....

Give up Fohat.dig..

You are outclassed in every respect with regards to Internet Arguing.


Not only that, Wars are fundamentally won by resource..

If it came down to that, You'd certainly die before Tp4, given your advanced age..



From what I can tell, you are a small box thinker, it is unlikely that you could manipulate words in your favor..



But,  please,  Tp4 doesn't h8 you,   Tp4 am only here to properly lay down the order of events, and analyze the battlements.

You are not a bad person,  but you can not win against the same Justice which you do not disagree with.

[Capnmycraw]

Get a room you two.

[tp4tissue]

Get a room you two.

My rate is 1 Ergodox Per hour.