Author Topic: Vegan Trials  (Read 11532 times)

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Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Vegan Trials
« Reply #50 on: Fri, 02 June 2017, 08:52:50 »
What supplements do you guys take?

if you're eating meat,  you don't need any supplements

 but according to the internet,  vegans need extra b12 and some fats like in walnuts.

Offline Sniping

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Re: Vegan Trials
« Reply #51 on: Fri, 02 June 2017, 16:36:45 »
What supplements do you guys take?

if you're eating meat,  you don't need any supplements

 but according to the internet,  vegans need extra b12 and some fats like in walnuts.

you should take b12 supplement for sure, i used to do cyanocobalamin tablets. if you're ok with it you can give yourself shots once a month too, which is convenient but also we have some sort of almost inherent fear of stabbing ourselves with needles. make sure you mix up your main source for carbs just to get a variety of nutrients and not be bored. oatmeal for breakfast is great with brown sugar and cinnamon, or toast up a bagel and spread with peanut butter and banana slices on top. pasta, rice, and beans are also very common and so cheap. make sure you aren't getting tired of your food or else you'll go back to eating junk food within a few weeks. 

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Vegan Trials
« Reply #52 on: Fri, 02 June 2017, 16:44:26 »
What supplements do you guys take?

if you're eating meat,  you don't need any supplements

 but according to the internet,  vegans need extra b12 and some fats like in walnuts.

you should take b12 supplement for sure, i used to do cyanocobalamin tablets. if you're ok with it you can give yourself shots once a month too, which is convenient but also we have some sort of almost inherent fear of stabbing ourselves with needles. make sure you mix up your main source for carbs just to get a variety of nutrients and not be bored. oatmeal for breakfast is great with brown sugar and cinnamon, or toast up a bagel and spread with peanut butter and banana slices on top. pasta, rice, and beans are also very common and so cheap. make sure you aren't getting tired of your food or else you'll go back to eating junk food within a few weeks. 


Tp4 considers a dull foods experience as an opportunity to hone concentration and WILL POWAH.. !!


But for the non-crazies out there,  Yes, indeed it is very important to experiment with the infinite variety of the vegan palette.

Offline Sniping

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Re: Vegan Trials
« Reply #53 on: Fri, 02 June 2017, 17:03:02 »
What supplements do you guys take?

if you're eating meat,  you don't need any supplements

 but according to the internet,  vegans need extra b12 and some fats like in walnuts.

you should take b12 supplement for sure, i used to do cyanocobalamin tablets. if you're ok with it you can give yourself shots once a month too, which is convenient but also we have some sort of almost inherent fear of stabbing ourselves with needles. make sure you mix up your main source for carbs just to get a variety of nutrients and not be bored. oatmeal for breakfast is great with brown sugar and cinnamon, or toast up a bagel and spread with peanut butter and banana slices on top. pasta, rice, and beans are also very common and so cheap. make sure you aren't getting tired of your food or else you'll go back to eating junk food within a few weeks. 


Tp4 considers a dull foods experience as an opportunity to hone concentration and WILL POWAH.. !!


But for the non-crazies out there,  Yes, indeed it is very important to experiment with the infinite variety of the vegan palette.

haha if you want to work on your mental toughness just do some big hills on your bicycle. you should beware of eating the same foods every day just because you probably won't be covering the complete spectrum of vitamins and minerals with only a couple of foods. just something to keep in mind i guess.

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Vegan Trials
« Reply #54 on: Sat, 03 June 2017, 20:54:12 »

haha if you want to work on your mental toughness just do some big hills on your bicycle. you should beware of eating the same foods every day just because you probably won't be covering the complete spectrum of vitamins and minerals with only a couple of foods. just something to keep in mind i guess.


Well different veggies go on sale every week, so I've got some variety by my poverty.

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Vegan Trials
« Reply #55 on: Sun, 04 June 2017, 15:35:56 »
A big boost in motivation/ Energy Level..

Getting stuff done feels lighter..  It's as if I've been wearing a laziness chain which has now been removed..

There's less mental haziness throughout my day to day.. 




Searching through ancient chinese scriptures,    80 to 150 years back (china), vegan diets are often used as treatment for sickly youths in rich families..   

There is also Dynastic family records where, a common remedy is to restrict diet on --rich-- foods such as meats/milk/eggs/refined oils..  Although they did not specify how strict the restriction was..


But this would at least indicate that there is a long heritage of improved health via removing animal products.

Offline E.E.L. Ambiense

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Re: Vegan Trials
« Reply #56 on: Wed, 14 June 2017, 13:13:56 »
Congrats on the switch man!  It gets easier as you go forward too.  Plant-based for a number of years myself, and haven't had red meat in 25+ yrs.  It gets a lot easier as you go forward.  What you're describing seems to be common as I know many who have experienced similar.
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Offline chyros

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Re: Vegan Trials
« Reply #57 on: Wed, 14 June 2017, 13:30:58 »
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Offline dante

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Re: Vegan Trials
« Reply #58 on: Thu, 15 June 2017, 09:30:46 »
I'm going to attempt vegan again next week, only this time I'll try to keep the carbs as low as possible.

That means no grains, no potatoes, only black soybeans/tofu for legumes, hemp hearts/pumpkin seeds/nuts/nut butters, and a lot of leafy greens/Cruciferous vegetables.

No fruit except some berries and even then only very early in the day so they can be burned off before night.

Offline dgneo

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Re: Vegan Trials
« Reply #59 on: Thu, 15 June 2017, 10:02:03 »


Found on reddit, had a raugh

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Vegan Trials
« Reply #60 on: Thu, 15 June 2017, 12:09:36 »
I'm going to attempt vegan again next week, only this time I'll try to keep the carbs as low as possible.

That means no grains, no potatoes, only black soybeans/tofu for legumes, hemp hearts/pumpkin seeds/nuts/nut butters, and a lot of leafy greens/Cruciferous vegetables.

No fruit except some berries and even then only very early in the day so they can be burned off before night.


Dante,  the vegan run is going to be healthy,

But if you eat any more than 10% fat calories (total) per day,  you will still have to contend with Heart Disease, Dementia, and Diabetes..



This is IMHO the biggest challenge..


But yesterday I did an experiment which gave me some confidence in the 10% fats.  22 Grams per day MAXIMUM..


I made baked potatoes with small potatoes..


With only 4 grams of oil measured out on the mini scale,    I could cover the cut tops of, 6 small potatoes (581 grams), each cut into quarters,  that is approximately  72 square inches  ..   And it tasted Greasy, just like regular french fries,  only it only had 4 grams of oil..


So this is a total of 412.5 Calories from the potato, + 36 Calories from the oil.. for a total of ~450 calories..



Coating healthy whole plant food with tiny amounts of oil is going to be the key..   This is especially true for many of us who have a --food, lust-- of sorts

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Vegan Trials
« Reply #61 on: Thu, 15 June 2017, 12:23:34 »
Show Image


Found on reddit, had a raugh


I don't think animal welfare/ rights / suffering is at all a convincing reason for people to stop eating them.


Because it is VERY easy to justify ANY form of exploitation as long as there is profit.

Are people happy being exploited at the workplace while their bosses reap the lion share of the profits.  The bosses are sure ok with it. hahahaa



So, relative to the Human / Animal relationship..  Every human is Many steps above a food-animal..   As long as Someone believe this is a Net Gain by eating them..  They will continue to do so.



The trouble is,  Our science on this has finally caught up.. Eating animals is directly causing humans,  Heart disease, Cancer, Diabetes, Dementia,   among all other leading causes of american death.


SO..... it really has to start in a self-centered desire for anyone to truly change..


Eat animals = DELICIOUS,   100% agree

Eat animals also = You Die, HORRIBLY

_______ Medical cost will be equivalent to your entire Life savings on the average salary.

_______ You have no money left to pass onto your loved ones

_______ You probably won't even have any left for your own funeral

_______ You put your family in emotional agony for the last 5 to 10 years of YOUR debilitating sickness..

_______ and Yea, that last 5 to 10 years of your life, YOU SUFFER, persist in physically and mental agony.




For some people who have no close family, a very monotonous job, and have no savings anyway..  It's probably still a logical decision to take the risk.


But asssuming this person wants to self improve,  whole plant food is still a good option, but not a necessity..

Offline Blackehart

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Re: Vegan Trials
« Reply #62 on: Thu, 15 June 2017, 12:46:40 »


Eat animals = DELICIOUS,   100% agree

Eat animals also = You Die, HORRIBLY

_______ Medical cost will be equivalent to your entire Life savings on the average salary.

_______ You have no money left to pass onto your loved ones

_______ You probably won't even have any left for your own funeral

_______ You put your family in emotional agony for the last 5 to 10 years of YOUR debilitating sickness..

_______ and Yea, that last 5 to 10 years of your life, YOU SUFFER, persist in physically and mental agony.




For some people who have no close family, a very monotonous job, and have no savings anyway..  It's probably still a logical decision to take the risk.


But asssuming this person wants to self improve,  whole plant food is still a good option, but not a necessity..


So vegans are somehow exempt from horrible deaths?  :p

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Vegan Trials
« Reply #63 on: Thu, 15 June 2017, 13:07:41 »

So vegans are somehow exempt from horrible deaths?  :p


Hahahahahahha..

Vegans do die... they're not immortals,   MOST of them arn't even very good people.


If you meet a Vegan AFK,  it's probably a good idea to assume he's a stupid hipster and avoid catching the disease-stupid from them altogether.


It is true that the MAJORITY of Vegans are **** people..   Just like the Majority of Peoples..



However,  we have very good data, which tells us, Human groups that eat 90%+ PLANT calories,  live ~10-15 years LONGER, and evade almost All leading Causes of Death in (western diet) countries..

Older generation Okinawans (japan), 96%+ Veggie
Modern 7th-day adventist (california), religious nut-bags ~99%+ Veggie

-both groups have significantly reduced rates of western diseases.
- Modern Okinawans lifespan suddenly dropped off, after they opened 14 KFCs on their plot, now their kids eat KFC and drop like flies.



Don't ignore the data,  JUST because you h8 vegans..  I h8 vegans.. it's OK to h8 vegans..     But that doesn't mean you can't Copy what they do right.





Offline Bucake

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Re: Vegan Trials
« Reply #64 on: Thu, 15 June 2017, 20:07:35 »
what is it about vegan that i'm missing, isn't it only/primarily meat that you want to avoid because there's a lot of fat in it?

i was under the impression that it's mostly the overkill of salt, sugar and fat that's attacking people their health.
seems overkill to go vegan, wouldn't just avoiding only meat be OK? besides, fish for example is pretty healthy, isn't it?

i don't think i would become any healthier if i would switch to a vegan diet.
i'm eating stuff like beef, fish, eggs, milk products.. so am i killing myself with these things? it certainly doesn't feel like it..

just curious. the internet is mostly busy trying to portray any non-vegan diet as a devil's one.
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Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Vegan Trials
« Reply #65 on: Thu, 15 June 2017, 20:30:18 »
what is it about vegan that i'm missing, isn't it only/primarily meat that you want to avoid because there's a lot of fat in it?

i was under the impression that it's mostly the overkill of salt, sugar and fat that's attacking people their health.
seems overkill to go vegan, wouldn't just avoiding only meat be OK? besides, fish for example is pretty healthy, isn't it?

i don't think i would become any healthier if i would switch to a vegan diet.
i'm eating stuff like beef, fish, eggs, milk products.. so am i killing myself with these things? it certainly doesn't feel like it..

just curious. the internet is mostly busy trying to portray any non-vegan diet as a devil's one.


Completely understand your confusion..


We have 4 major players in the game right now..


The Meat industry -  profit, damn the people

The Animal nuts - animals have rights !!

The Vegans - this makes me cooler than you, hurray i'm so cool

The Scientist - If you eat this this and this, you will die like this,   don't eat this, and you'll be fine,   you will still die, but much later, and most likely NOT from heart disease / cancer / or diabetes



All of these people say different things to support their interests.



Of them all, the scientists are the most impartial..  Here's the information from the research, Do with it what you will..

2 people particularly,  T. Colin Campbell   and  Caldwell Esselstyn  are the best direction to read into if you want the straight dope.

-documentary,  Fork over knives 2011
-book , the China study
-book, Prevent and reverse heart disease



Fat in excess of ~10% of total daily calories, damages the endothelial layer of your blood vessels.

If you eat animals, it will be nearly impossible to get below that threshold.

This layer is key in generating nitrous oxide,  which is the lubricant to keep your vascular system flowing smoothly..

Once this layer is damaged by excess lipids,  it will scar, further leading to buildup..   This is the root cause of coronary artery disease..


Since ONLY animal products have cholesterol, that is why it is not suitable in ANY quantity for human consumption, ASSUMING the intention is to preserve quality of life into age 70s and 80s..


While it IS a choice,  I highly suggest you visit the hospital, and meet some people with heart disease and cancer.. it's god damn awful..

Many of them are --cheerful-- about it,  but really take a step back and look at what's happening to them..

THEN, understand that 1 in 4 people get heart disease,  THEN understand that it's 100% preventable.




Fish is not healthier,  it contains significant calories in fat form, it has cholesterol, and ontop of the lipids problem, the large fish that we eat these days are highly contaminated due to how far they are up the food chain.


When the small fish becomes contaminated, the larger fish eats 1000s of small fish, Concentrating the ocean pollutants.


Humans are on the top of the food chain, so if a human then goes to eat the BIG fish,  he is receiving a Mega dose of ocean contaminants.





Offline dante

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Re: Vegan Trials
« Reply #66 on: Sat, 01 July 2017, 11:22:19 »

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Vegan Trials
« Reply #67 on: Sat, 01 July 2017, 19:10:13 »


Guys,


Please do not get hung up on the Socially -POPULAR-  Vegan Charicatures..


The vegan world is large these days.. in that way, like any other large -Sets- of people..

There are:


- 80% IDIOTs,

- 10% douchebags,

- 5% physically attractive idiots/douchebags, 

- 4% REAL religious (not fake, not idiots, not douchebag), 


- 1% full fledged human beings


Offline futurecrime

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Re: Vegan Trials
« Reply #68 on: Mon, 03 July 2017, 05:45:07 »
TP4 what is your view on the environmental impact of meat and dairy industry?  I remember it was a big reason for me ditching dairy and did a bunch of research at the time but now can't remember any of it.

Offline xantiema

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Re: Vegan Trials
« Reply #69 on: Mon, 03 July 2017, 06:48:25 »
The Modern most common cancers are directly correlated with consumption of animal proteins, and they happen in our Western lifestyles, but NOT in other cultures which eat 0x animals...

The latest info suggest we should not be dying of the common western cancers which are today retiring americans approximately 10-20 years ahead of end of useful healthful lifespan.

How old are you? Chances are you've already damaged your DNA significantly with years of animal protein to make a major difference now. Secondly messing with your fat intakes can seriously damage your health, just as much as having a too high saturated fat diet. I get what you are saying, but if this change is out of fear of dying early, rather than a change in point of view and thus seem half arsed attempt at increasing life span. Your points of ecological vegetables is also not entirely on point. It is true that in our parents time, they contained significantly more micronutrients up to 30-50 times as much, which has since been diminished by industrialization, however the current ones still provide a significant increase over non-ecological ones and can be rationalized buying if you can afford them.

My advice would also be to test how well your body converts plant oils to useable omega 3s etc., as most peoples bodies are at a inefficient in this conversion and would literally be starved of it, no matter the plant quantity intake. People generally eat the fish, which has already done this process en masse.

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Vegan Trials
« Reply #70 on: Mon, 03 July 2017, 09:48:07 »
The Modern most common cancers are directly correlated with consumption of animal proteins, and they happen in our Western lifestyles, but NOT in other cultures which eat 0x animals...

The latest info suggest we should not be dying of the common western cancers which are today retiring americans approximately 10-20 years ahead of end of useful healthful lifespan.

How old are you? Chances are you've already damaged your DNA significantly with years of animal protein to make a major difference now. Secondly messing with your fat intakes can seriously damage your health, just as much as having a too high saturated fat diet. I get what you are saying, but if this change is out of fear of dying early, rather than a change in point of view and thus seem half arsed attempt at increasing life span. Your points of ecological vegetables is also not entirely on point. It is true that in our parents time, they contained significantly more micronutrients up to 30-50 times as much, which has since been diminished by industrialization, however the current ones still provide a significant increase over non-ecological ones and can be rationalized buying if you can afford them.

My advice would also be to test how well your body converts plant oils to useable omega 3s etc., as most peoples bodies are at a inefficient in this conversion and would literally be starved of it, no matter the plant quantity intake. People generally eat the fish, which has already done this process en masse.



Mice experiments on casein protein  can turn on and off cancer cell promotion rates within time ranges of 2 week trials.

So the effects are quite substantial, and the alternate diet begins to work Immediately. 



Now, No one can say for sure how much DNA damage one has already received,   


Just because you've been poisoning yourself for your entire life,  has no bearing on you CONTINUING to poison yourself..


______________________________________

If you truly believe something that tastes good is reason enough to eat it,   Then why stop there,  Why not become a drug addict.. 


If you live by inconsistent logic, then again, it's a choice, i concur on that,  but you're not really a human being, if you don't exercise the cognitive potential to discern Complex harm from within your base desires.

Koalas don't know about STDs,  so entire large wild populations got chlamydia.

Being humans,  in general, we know not to engage with disease ridden prostitutes, Though of course like you said,  SOME people DO.. **


Eating animal products is the same, it's full of disease and cancer..

**(This doesn't of course make prostitutes bad people, they're mostly good people fallen on hard times)
____________________________________


What really sets humans apart from animals is this aspect of forward looking and adhesion to greater logic.


It's not wrong to call it a Choice, And perhaps the sociologists are ok with most people dying around 60 70,  because that greatly reduces resource consumption and potential for political upheaval.


________________________________________

As for testing for how well you convert Omega 3s, this is completely irrelevant. You don't need that much of it,  and the quantity is easily satisfied with walnuts which has it by the boat load..

The original fake research promoting omega 3 was mainly a product of fish oil industry funding,

it's complete bull**** and fish oil has NOT done anything positive according to years of research.

With fish, you're getting the same antibiotic resistant disease potentials, the same cholesterol, the same saturated fats,  the same cancer promoting protein profiles..


____________________________________

Again,  I do believe natural humans are omnivores and eat whatever they can , be it land animals or fish, but remember, these guys DIE at age 35- 50,  that's as far as natural evolution has designed the system.


We know NOW, that Old age is a consequence of Society and Intellect,   and it requires a trade off at the dinner table.

Offline xtrafrood

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Re: Vegan Trials
« Reply #71 on: Mon, 03 July 2017, 10:38:17 »
Show Image


Found on reddit, had a raugh

lol, that's literally what would need to happen to flip the worldwide vegan switch atm
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Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Vegan Trials
« Reply #72 on: Mon, 03 July 2017, 10:48:21 »
Show Image


Found on reddit, had a raugh

lol, that's literally what would need to happen to flip the worldwide vegan switch atm


I deeply fear an unstable government once enough healthy old people exist..


Healthy old people are 3 things,   

--- They're relatively wealthy
--- They're NOT STUPID/Naive like young people
--- They can't be manipulated like young people with a mortgage


You get enough of these guys,  the government can't possible contain their influence,  because their collective competence and wealth is enough to challenge their masters.


Japan seems to be dealing with the problem by creating poverty for their elderly..  cutting pensions etc, perhaps this is the route the US will take, if it can't kill off its old people at the 60 year mark through diet.


I should clarify,     OLD people are not a threat to government,  they're a threat to Government-as-it-is-now,   where the top down oligarchy rules supreme through cohesion and debt creation.

Old people living through their time past 60 won't have any debt,  Nor would they be so afraid to walk away from debt, and say fuk it..  I won't pay,  what are you going to do,  give a 60yr old guy bad credit,   He's not going to care. hahahahahaha

Offline futurecrime

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Re: Vegan Trials
« Reply #73 on: Fri, 07 July 2017, 10:01:45 »
My dad Whatsapp'd me yesterday to tell me he's vegan now. Good luck with that. He lives in a small town in the south of France. However, he's a lifetime meat and cheese fanatic, and the decision is all for his arteries, so maybe this stuff is catching on.

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Vegan Trials
« Reply #74 on: Fri, 07 July 2017, 10:11:42 »
My dad Whatsapp'd me yesterday to tell me he's vegan now. Good luck with that. He lives in a small town in the south of France. However, he's a lifetime meat and cheese fanatic, and the decision is all for his arteries, so maybe this stuff is catching on.

That's absolutely the best thing he could be doing for his heart condition..


Make sure to exchange some dialogue on Less than 10% of total calories from fat.

approximately 22g of oil per day Maximum !!!!.. 


For example, if you ate 20% calories from fat,   you're gonna clog your arteries all the same.


Most heart disease ridden americans are consuming around the 25-40% range.. something like 50 to 100 grams of fat daily.

at this rate,  it gives them a 50% odds of developing heart disease and 50% chance of developing cancer.


This is the hardest part of being not only a vegan but a HEALTHY vegan.


Southern france,  do you guys eat super greasy over there  like america ?



Offline futurecrime

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Re: Vegan Trials
« Reply #75 on: Fri, 07 July 2017, 10:28:53 »
My dad Whatsapp'd me yesterday to tell me he's vegan now. Good luck with that. He lives in a small town in the south of France. However, he's a lifetime meat and cheese fanatic, and the decision is all for his arteries, so maybe this stuff is catching on.

That's absolutely the best thing he could be doing for his heart condition..


Make sure to exchange some dialogue on Less than 10% of total calories from fat.

approximately 22g of oil per day TOTAL.. 


For example, if you ate 20% calories from fat,   you're gonna clog your arteries all the same.


Most heart disease ridden americans are consuming around the 25-40% range.. something like 50 to 100 grams of fat daily.

at this rate,  it gives them a 50% odds of developing heart disease and 50% chance of developing cancer.


This is the hardest part of being not only a vegan but a HEALTHY vegan.


Southern france,  do you guys eat super greasy over there  like america ?

I don't live in France but I've been to where he lives and it's all meat, cheese and wine, like anywhere in France, but without the alternative options you might be able to find in big cities. Not particularly greasy I guess, but very fatty.

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Vegan Trials
« Reply #76 on: Fri, 07 July 2017, 10:32:54 »

I don't live in France but I've been to where he lives and it's all meat, cheese and wine, like anywhere in France, but without the alternative options you might be able to find in big cities. Not particularly greasy I guess, but very fatty.

Does he and your mother have a good relationship ?

She's gonna need to create entirely new menus for him..


But you know, if she h8s him, she could be slowly poisoning him with arsenic like in that french movie i saw once..  hahahahahaha



Pasta, Rice, Potato, Bright colored vegetables.

Make sure to keep it at   4 to 7 g   of cooking oil per meal Maximum..


Cheese, meats, fish, chocolate, milk, bacon, eggs,  have to be strictly removed.


IDK if it's been translated into french,  but


Prevent and Reserve Heart disease by esselstyn..


Must read for anyone on the edge..


Offline futurecrime

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Re: Vegan Trials
« Reply #77 on: Fri, 07 July 2017, 11:21:53 »

I don't live in France but I've been to where he lives and it's all meat, cheese and wine, like anywhere in France, but without the alternative options you might be able to find in big cities. Not particularly greasy I guess, but very fatty.

Does he and your mother have a good relationship ?

She's gonna need to create entirely new menus for him..


But you know, if she h8s him, she could be slowly poisoning him with arsenic like in that french movie i saw once..  hahahahahaha



Pasta, Rice, Potato, Bright colored vegetables.

Make sure to keep it at   4 to 7 g   of cooking oil per meal Maximum..


Cheese, meats, fish, chocolate, milk, bacon, eggs,  have to be strictly removed.


IDK if it's been translated into french,  but


Prevent and Reserve Heart disease by esselstyn..


Must read for anyone on the edge..

They're divorced and he's remarried. Don't know if his partner has gone vegan but they share cooking duties pretty evenly I think. I'm just messaging with him now and it turns out it was ultimately an ethical decision, which is surprising. Although he's well aware of, and appreciates, the health benefits for his dodgy heart.


Offline xtrafrood

  • formerly csmertx
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Re: Vegan Trials
« Reply #78 on: Fri, 07 July 2017, 11:26:30 »

I don't live in France but I've been to where he lives and it's all meat, cheese and wine, like anywhere in France, but without the alternative options you might be able to find in big cities. Not particularly greasy I guess, but very fatty.

Does he and your mother have a good relationship ?

She's gonna need to create entirely new menus for him..


But you know, if she h8s him, she could be slowly poisoning him with arsenic like in that french movie i saw once..  hahahahahaha



Pasta, Rice, Potato, Bright colored vegetables.

Make sure to keep it at   4 to 7 g   of cooking oil per meal Maximum..


Cheese, meats, fish, chocolate, milk, bacon, eggs,  have to be strictly removed.


IDK if it's been translated into french,  but


Prevent and Reserve Heart disease by esselstyn..


Must read for anyone on the edge..

They're divorced and he's remarried. Don't know if his partner has gone vegan but they share cooking duties pretty evenly I think. I'm just messaging with him now and it turns out it was ultimately an ethical decision, which is surprising. Although he's well aware of, and appreciates, the health benefits for his dodgy heart.

I can only imagine how difficult it must be to avoid saturated and trans fat
Chris Schammert

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Vegan Trials
« Reply #79 on: Fri, 07 July 2017, 11:38:52 »

I can only imagine how difficult it must be to avoid saturated and trans fat



Fats are Super Delicious,   and in the quantities we eat today , they're all bad for you , saturated/ unsaturated/ poly/ mono..   ALL BAD..

Offline ander

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Re: Vegan Trials
« Reply #80 on: Fri, 07 July 2017, 15:01:49 »
They're actually putting vegans on trial now? Sheesh. The Drumpf era of steak-eating planet destroyers must be in full effect now.

I dunno about you, but sometimes I get the creeps, realizing I'm walking among creatures who are, for the most part, carnivores. It also explains why we're so aggressive toward each other, and toward our planet: Carnivores need to be in charge, to be the bosses of everything.
We are not chasing wildly after beauty with fear at our backs. – Natalie Goldberg

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Vegan Trials
« Reply #81 on: Fri, 07 July 2017, 15:53:19 »
They're actually putting vegans on trial now? Sheesh. The Drumpf era of steak-eating planet destroyers must be in full effect now.

I dunno about you, but sometimes I get the creeps, realizing I'm walking among creatures who are, for the most part, carnivores. It also explains why we're so aggressive toward each other, and toward our planet: Carnivores need to be in charge, to be the bosses of everything.


That's not correct,  you go up to a gorilla , he'll beat the **** out of you..  gorillas only eat fruits and veggies..