Author Topic: Word of warning on the G900  (Read 8351 times)

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Offline rich1051414

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Word of warning on the G900
« on: Fri, 06 October 2017, 10:27:53 »
Originally I loved this mouse, but I have had both microswitches fail on the mouse, and instead of tossing it(as I love the mouse otherwise), I decided to take it apart. The switches failed in the same way, they lost their click and the weight of my finger would actuate them.

The switches that failed were D2FC-F-7N(20M) switches... chinese omron switches. Yeah right on the 20 million claim... Also, the mouse is not a breeze to take apart either, roughly 20 screws and lots of scary moments of bending plastic way too far for comfort to get it broke down. After it is broke down though, replacing the microswitch is a breeze, they are mounted on their own tiny boards. I replaced mine with D2F-F Japanese switches, and the mouse feels better now than the day I bought it.

It really annoys me that logitech would cheap out on the switches for such a high end mouse. Quite disappointing.
« Last Edit: Fri, 06 October 2017, 10:36:46 by rich1051414 »
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Re: Word of warning on the G900
« Reply #1 on: Fri, 06 October 2017, 11:07:37 »
Cool! I would be really interested to read a walkthrough on how you did this. You ought to make one!

Would you say it's worth the effort to replace the switches even if yer G900 is not malfunctioning? What's the difference?
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Offline rich1051414

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Re: Word of warning on the G900
« Reply #2 on: Fri, 06 October 2017, 11:39:32 »
Cool! I would be really interested to read a walkthrough on how you did this. You ought to make one!

Would you say it's worth the effort to replace the switches even if yer G900 is not malfunctioning? What's the difference?

No, it is not worth it, imo. Unless you like lots of tiny screws and lots of tiny pieces. However, if you do replace them, I do recommend you replace them with 10m switches and not 20m switches.  I do not believe the 20m claim, and I would argue they are less durable than the old 10m switches, but my experience is anecdotal. Also, stick with japan switches. They are called D2F-F and they have a gray button. Avoid D2FC switches.

I had thought about taking pictures, but honestly, I was getting frustrated half way through, and I just wanted the nightmare over xD

Edit: As far as the difference goes, the new switch is snappier than the old switch, not as soft, and slightly louder. It is more pleasing and satisfying, but it's not night and day. Just noticeable. It feels higher quality.
« Last Edit: Fri, 06 October 2017, 12:01:36 by rich1051414 »
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Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Word of warning on the G900
« Reply #3 on: Fri, 06 October 2017, 15:31:10 »
Cool! I would be really interested to read a walkthrough on how you did this. You ought to make one!

Would you say it's worth the effort to replace the switches even if yer G900 is not malfunctioning? What's the difference?

No, it is not worth it, imo. Unless you like lots of tiny screws and lots of tiny pieces. However, if you do replace them, I do recommend you replace them with 10m switches and not 20m switches.  I do not believe the 20m claim, and I would argue they are less durable than the old 10m switches, but my experience is anecdotal. Also, stick with japan switches. They are called D2F-F and they have a gray button. Avoid D2FC switches.

I had thought about taking pictures, but honestly, I was getting frustrated half way through, and I just wanted the nightmare over xD

Edit: As far as the difference goes, the new switch is snappier than the old switch, not as soft, and slightly louder. It is more pleasing and satisfying, but it's not night and day. Just noticeable. It feels higher quality.

That's not how it works.


If it broke on you, in what you consider TOO EARLY.. You're at fault for clicking too hard.

The rating is @ 0% over travel.. it is not a real world use rating.


Meaning if you pressed it down PERFECTLY to the point of actuation and let go.

If you press it down any further,  the number of total possible presses decreases "Exponentially"


This is the nature of mechanical tolerance..

It has nothing to do with China vs Japan.


Those switches are rated by Logitech internally, They're the ones that give go ahead on the 20M labeling, so when they say 20M,  they mean 20M,  but again, it's under very SPECIFIC testing conditions. NOT real-world conditions.

Offline Leslieann

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Re: Word of warning on the G900
« Reply #4 on: Fri, 06 October 2017, 18:33:48 »
First off, these have like a 2 year warranty, and I'm pretty sure these are not 2 years old yet.

Second, there is a concern here though, but not how you think. As I mentioned in the switch guide, D2f switches do not even like finger pressure on them, and I'm convinced that the longer the lifespan, the less they like this. Worse, the G900 has actual hinges, so there is nothing at all reducing finger pressure on the switch. Also, Logitech didn't go cheap on the switches, in fact these are rather high end switches.

By the way, have you ever looked at the pressure rating on these?
I forget the exact number but it only takes like 3 pounds to damage them. Ever smack it with your finger or get frustrated and clamp down on it? You damaged the switch. Ridiculous? Absolutely! But you cannot say Logitech used cheap ones when they are actually pretty much the best switches you can get in a production mouse and even the Japanese ones are the same way.


That said, you had a warranty, you could have used it.
Oh, and the reason the new switch feels better, is because you replaced the damaged ones. They are pretty much the exact same switch.
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Offline rich1051414

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Re: Word of warning on the G900
« Reply #5 on: Fri, 06 October 2017, 22:01:18 »
Very well.

"That said, you had a warranty, you could have used it."
Where is the fun in that?

Edit: Also, "pretty much the exact same switch". No, I will disagree with you. The ones I installed (Gray switch), have a noticeably crisper click than the originals, which were noticeably soft when I bought it. Some people like it, some don't.
« Last Edit: Sat, 07 October 2017, 05:32:29 by rich1051414 »
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Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Word of warning on the G900
« Reply #6 on: Sat, 07 October 2017, 07:30:44 »
Very well.

"That said, you had a warranty, you could have used it."
Where is the fun in that?

Edit: Also, "pretty much the exact same switch". No, I will disagree with you. The ones I installed (Gray switch), have a noticeably crisper click than the originals, which were noticeably soft when I bought it. Some people like it, some don't.

D2F-F have a dull-er click, not as high pitched as the d2fc. 

The new logitech flaps are all spring pre-loaded, which means the button is already slightly depressed (Further reducing its total durability)..

But this also means the click distance wouldn't be as different.

The D2F 01F used in my WMO ultimate in my signature for example,  feels very DEEP..  whereas the D2FC felt shallow, because it has less travel. Because the WMO doesn't have much preload.


We're only talking about 0.1mm difference here..  but the timing is definitely perceptible.


Also, why did you get D2FF instead of 01F,   If we're going into VANITY mode, hahahaha,  It's all about dat GOLD plated springz..

Offline snarfbot

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Re: Word of warning on the G900
« Reply #7 on: Sat, 07 October 2017, 07:57:32 »
Does the newer version the g703 specifically with the more traditional shape have the same switches? I'm in the market for a new mouse and was leaning towards this one.

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Word of warning on the G900
« Reply #8 on: Sat, 07 October 2017, 08:19:36 »
Does the newer version the g703 specifically with the more traditional shape have the same switches? I'm in the market for a new mouse and was leaning towards this one.

unless you're buying into their wireless charging system.

I would wait for the g403 to go on sale.. hahahaha

cuz the wireless charging thing,  idk.. for me,  hand cancer..   it's like slowly microwaving your wrist.. hahahaha

I know it's just paranoia,  but... overall the pad is still just kinda small.



Offline Leslieann

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Re: Word of warning on the G900
« Reply #9 on: Sat, 07 October 2017, 18:33:55 »
Does the newer version the g703 specifically with the more traditional shape have the same switches? I'm in the market for a new mouse and was leaning towards this one.
It uses the same switch.
Every high end mouse uses that same switch, pretty much.

The G700 used 10m's, but the newer models use 20m.
Now, in theory these should be better, but I'm convinced the higher the rating the less tolerant they are of abuse, I would love to see the warranty rates because my sample size is pretty small (based on my experience and a few comments I've seen).

The G700 series is not a bad mouse, especially bang for the buck, it's a steal, however, the G403 and G903 battery life is just CRUSHES the G700 series. I can get 32 hours with my G900 (lights off, HIGH rates), but 703 struggled at the same rates to manage 16 and the 700 manages a measly 12. And that was with Powercell 2700mah batteries, stock batteries were even less.

unless you're buying into their wireless charging system.

I would wait for the g403 to go on sale.. hahahaha

cuz the wireless charging thing,  idk.. for me,  hand cancer..   it's like slowly microwaving your wrist.. hahahaha
Catching a G403 on sale is probably going to be hit or miss, same for the 903. They are just in too high demand.

I ran the numbers on the pad, it's surprisingly low in terms of power, that said, it's another source dosing you on top of all the others you experience all day long and I personally would rather not subject myself to it. To be clear, it's perfectly safe, but combine what's coming off your monitors, the mouse, your cell phone, your wifi, background... Do I need another source dosing me just to avoid plugging in a mouse at the end of the day? No. It also props up your mouse pad (mine is flush), fits their mouse pad (I prefer the Razer Sphex), it's delicate (don't bend it!), and last but not least, expensive...

The real benefit to me is a battery that will not die, however, I universally destroy the Omrons before the battery dies anyway, usually in the 8-12 month range.
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Offline typo

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Re: Word of warning on the G900
« Reply #10 on: Sun, 08 October 2017, 00:53:41 »
The G903 has an about 1.5MM side to side movement in the main buttons. Do not know if it is mine or all. Sure, that is Anal but they should have enclosed them like the 502. Saving weight. To the OP, Logitech will be glad to send you a new one so what's the issue?  I urge people not to abuse this with them. Truthfully their products have an unwritten warranty until the product is no longer in production. Sometimes if you are lucky they will upgrade a 10 year old item even. YNNV. Again, please do not abuse this. I would save on the 900 unless you are using Inductive.

Offline Leslieann

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Re: Word of warning on the G900
« Reply #11 on: Sun, 08 October 2017, 02:46:03 »
The G903 has an about 1.5MM side to side movement in the main buttons. Do not know if it is mine or all. Sure, that is Anal but they should have enclosed them like the 502.
The 502 button "hinges", like almost all mice, are just a flex hinge (a thin section of plastic where it flexes), hence no side to side movement. The 900 and 903 however have a very small, actual hinge, like the hinges on the doors of your house. This means they need less pressure and allows for some interesting designs, but does allow for some wiggle.

Personally, I much prefer the flex hinge, not so much because of side to side play (my left has almost none, my right has about 1.5), but I find the 90x right button FAR too easy to accidentally click, I do it constantly. The other reason though, is durability, these hinges are certainly more delicate than a flex hinge and they place a small static load on the switches.
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Offline typo

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Re: Word of warning on the G900
« Reply #12 on: Sun, 08 October 2017, 07:36:11 »
Oh, I would think a real hinge  is more durable than bent plastic. I have no idea though. I can use the 903 or 502 just the same. I have all the buttons on the sides and no problems, Although I do find the 502 has a more ideal button layout for right handed. Once the 903 I think the 502 is so heavy. I prefer corded so I took out the battery and it is really lite. The 402.403 or whatever it is may be lighter still but does not suit me with button count. What I spent $159 for some may think was stupid since it is meant to be wireless but I like it.

Offline iLLucionist

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Re: Word of warning on the G900
« Reply #13 on: Sun, 08 October 2017, 09:42:49 »
Cool! I would be really interested to read a walkthrough on how you did this. You ought to make one!

Would you say it's worth the effort to replace the switches even if yer G900 is not malfunctioning? What's the difference?

No, it is not worth it, imo. Unless you like lots of tiny screws and lots of tiny pieces. However, if you do replace them, I do recommend you replace them with 10m switches and not 20m switches.  I do not believe the 20m claim, and I would argue they are less durable than the old 10m switches, but my experience is anecdotal. Also, stick with japan switches. They are called D2F-F and they have a gray button. Avoid D2FC switches.

I had thought about taking pictures, but honestly, I was getting frustrated half way through, and I just wanted the nightmare over xD

Edit: As far as the difference goes, the new switch is snappier than the old switch, not as soft, and slightly louder. It is more pleasing and satisfying, but it's not night and day. Just noticeable. It feels higher quality.

That's not how it works.


If it broke on you, in what you consider TOO EARLY.. You're at fault for clicking too hard.

The rating is @ 0% over travel.. it is not a real world use rating.


Meaning if you pressed it down PERFECTLY to the point of actuation and let go.

If you press it down any further,  the number of total possible presses decreases "Exponentially"


This is the nature of mechanical tolerance..

It has nothing to do with China vs Japan.


Those switches are rated by Logitech internally, They're the ones that give go ahead on the 20M labeling, so when they say 20M,  they mean 20M,  but again, it's under very SPECIFIC testing conditions. NOT real-world conditions.

Well.. the way I look at it... of course it won't last 20M. It needs to fail way earlier, which they, I guess, calculated precisely using real world testing. They just calculate how much money per year they will make at what failure rate to ensure (increased) revenue. Welcome to the consumption economy, where things need to break so that companies can make money.
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Offline rich1051414

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Re: Word of warning on the G900
« Reply #14 on: Sun, 08 October 2017, 16:19:04 »
That was precisely my point, but obviously, my experience is anecdotal. I have had a lot of mice over the years, and it seems very strange that the 20m switch used in these failed faster than other switches not rated for nearly as long, which is why I called BS on that claim. Sure, it may or may not have been my fault, but I don't rage, and I am not a cave man, and both switches failed within a year. Perhaps mine were simply part of a faulty batch, and has nothing to do with where they are manufactured, but it I have a hard time believing the two aren't related.
Perhaps the new switches will fail just as fast and I will know for sure if it is indeed the hinge mechanism or the way I use a mouse. However, I will confirm the mouse is indeed hinged, on a steel rod pivot.
« Last Edit: Sun, 08 October 2017, 16:22:53 by rich1051414 »
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Offline Leslieann

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Re: Word of warning on the G900
« Reply #15 on: Sun, 08 October 2017, 20:28:09 »
That was precisely my point, but obviously, my experience is anecdotal. I have had a lot of mice over the years, and it seems very strange that the 20m switch used in these failed faster than other switches not rated for nearly as long, which is why I called BS on that claim. Sure, it may or may not have been my fault, but I don't rage, and I am not a cave man, and both switches failed within a year. Perhaps mine were simply part of a faulty batch, and has nothing to do with where they are manufactured, but it I have a hard time believing the two aren't related.
Perhaps the new switches will fail just as fast and I will know for sure if it is indeed the hinge mechanism or the way I use a mouse.
I have never had a primary desktop mouse last more than 18 months, and never had one working flawless after 12-14.

Like I said, it's only a few pounds to damage the switch, it falling off a table onto the button is easily enough to damage the switch mechanism (it's in the Omron documentation somewhere) unless it has an endstop, but those only go so far. You can literally tap it too hard and cause damage, just resting your finger on it is bad! Why do we use these switches? Frankly, I have no idea, they are doomed to fail in such an application.

And yes, it could be faulty, I had an MX Performance double click within 3 days, Logitech does testing, but things happen. Personally, I expect to start having problems after 8-10 months, it's just how it is. I love that Asus is making the switches easy to replace, now if only they could make a mouse I like and for a reasonable price, but I don't expect Logitech to follow suit. As much as it may seem like I like the mice they make, I buy their mice because the alternatives are simply not as good. Technologically they push the limits and have brought a lot of breakthroughs but their attitude towards customers is terrible and are approaching Creative and Red on that front.

I'm not saying you caveman'd it, I'm saying it's ridiculously easy to damage them, far easier than people realize.
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