Author Topic: Do you use Win10 and if so, why?  (Read 62507 times)

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Offline duckboi

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Re: Do you use Win10 and if so, why?
« Reply #50 on: Sun, 09 December 2018, 10:55:39 »
Honestly I've never really had any of the issues that people always talk about with windows 10.
I don't get bombarded with updates, I don't have issues with speed, etc.
Maybe I'm lucky?  :p
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Offline Skull_Angel

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Re: Do you use Win10 and if so, why?
« Reply #51 on: Sun, 09 December 2018, 17:30:56 »
Win10 moves around a TON of data.
On major updates it archives the current Windows install the deletes it, before reinstalling itself before putting the data back that it needs to This is how they caused the recent Onedrive bug, it's a stupid and moronic method of doing updates, destined to miss something eventually.

It will also over-ride a dual boot system, not just to boot partition, but going so far as to mess with your uefi settings as well.

Oh hell, I wasn't aware that it could mess with the UEFI. This is indeed a large problem if it can access and manipulate firmware without owner consent.

I can understand why an installation/update would want to create a copy of user settings, wipe for a clean install, and over-write with corresponding settings from the copy of user preferred settings, but to go as far as copying user content/documents on to their servers is just aggressive data collection/snooping; there's no rhyme or reason why this doesn't happen locally. It's absolutely outrageous that it hasn't caused a big media stink, I may look into it a bit more later on.

Thanks for all the info so far; it's a good spread of things to look into when planning for upgrade time.

Offline Leslieann

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Re: Do you use Win10 and if so, why?
« Reply #52 on: Sun, 09 December 2018, 20:05:22 »
Oh hell, I wasn't aware that it could mess with the UEFI. This is indeed a large problem if it can access and manipulate firmware without owner consent.

I can understand why an installation/update would want to create a copy of user settings, wipe for a clean install, and over-write with corresponding settings from the copy of user preferred settings, but to go as far as copying user content/documents on to their servers is just aggressive data collection/snooping; there's no rhyme or reason why this doesn't happen locally. It's absolutely outrageous that it hasn't caused a big media stink, I may look into it a bit more later on.

Thanks for all the info so far; it's a good spread of things to look into when planning for upgrade time.
You're welcome.
By the way, Windows 8 can also mess with uefi settings.

The data reporting has caused some media coverage, but many ignored it, others simply don't care and MS did a lot of work to bury it. By the time we fully understood the depth of it, most people were and media were over it.
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Offline ddot

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Re: Do you use Win10 and if so, why?
« Reply #53 on: Mon, 10 December 2018, 14:01:33 »
It depends on your version of windows, on OEM (pre-instaleld) copies it tends to be on by default.

I have a few Win10 ISOs squirreled away, so I fired up virtualbox for a few tests.  I tried installing a few different releases of Win10 directly in a variety of releases, editions and architectures.  Then I tried installing Win7 a few times and upgrading via both the Microsoft Media Creation Tool and different Win10 ISOs.  Not once was I able to get the "suggested apps" to show up by default.  Maybe I just didn't hit that magical setup to make it appear.  Or maybe it's no longer enabled due to negative feedback or something.

Everyone but Enterprise gets Candy Crush.
Pretty sure it's the same for One Drive.

I also installed a fresh copy of Win10 Enterprise 1607 so see what was included by default.  Still get the Windows Store, Xbox, OneDrive, etc.  Can't tell on Candy Crush as there's still a few tiles that are refusing to update.



If you really want to thin down what's included, you need to go with Win10 Enterprise LTSB/LTSC.  Among other things, it's missing: Metro Apps (or whatever they're called now), Windows Store, Edge Browser, Cortana and all feature updates.  Whether loosing any of those bits is a positive or negative is going to be up to individual preference and what you use/appreciate.  There's also that niggle of a home user / small business getting a license for it.



Offline Findecanor

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Re: Do you use Win10 and if so, why?
« Reply #54 on: Mon, 10 December 2018, 15:01:43 »
I have only a three year old tablet, which I use only for reading PDFs which I copy over via USB stick.
I have not got it out of airplane mode for a year or more, and am afraid of what would happen if it started downloading updates. It has "only" 32 GB storage and most of that is used up already.
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Offline chuckdee

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Re: Do you use Win10 and if so, why?
« Reply #55 on: Mon, 10 December 2018, 16:32:12 »
It depends on your version of windows, on OEM (pre-instaleld) copies it tends to be on by default.

I have a few Win10 ISOs squirreled away, so I fired up virtualbox for a few tests.  I tried installing a few different releases of Win10 directly in a variety of releases, editions and architectures.  Then I tried installing Win7 a few times and upgrading via both the Microsoft Media Creation Tool and different Win10 ISOs.  Not once was I able to get the "suggested apps" to show up by default.  Maybe I just didn't hit that magical setup to make it appear.  Or maybe it's no longer enabled due to negative feedback or something.

Everyone but Enterprise gets Candy Crush.
Pretty sure it's the same for One Drive.

I also installed a fresh copy of Win10 Enterprise 1607 so see what was included by default.  Still get the Windows Store, Xbox, OneDrive, etc.  Can't tell on Candy Crush as there's still a few tiles that are refusing to update.

Show Image


If you really want to thin down what's included, you need to go with Win10 Enterprise LTSB/LTSC.  Among other things, it's missing: Metro Apps (or whatever they're called now), Windows Store, Edge Browser, Cortana and all feature updates.  Whether loosing any of those bits is a positive or negative is going to be up to individual preference and what you use/appreciate.  There's also that niggle of a home user / small business getting a license for it.

Show Image


Those pretty closely mirrored my experiences (I just had to reinstall it on two different boxes in VB for access to corporate VPN as I won't install their software on my personal box)

Offline csmertx

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Re: Do you use Win10 and if so, why?
« Reply #56 on: Mon, 10 December 2018, 18:13:30 »
I guess Microsoft is starting to learn from their mistakes. This is good news.
More
 / another 3d keyboard model thread / BSD thread / github / falotalt
Quote
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Offline Leslieann

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Re: Do you use Win10 and if so, why?
« Reply #57 on: Mon, 10 December 2018, 18:45:48 »
I have a few Win10 ISOs squirreled away, so I fired up virtualbox for a few tests.  I tried installing a few different releases of Win10 directly in a variety of releases, editions and architectures.  Then I tried installing Win7 a few times and upgrading via both the Microsoft Media Creation Tool and different Win10 ISOs.  Not once was I able to get the "suggested apps" to show up by default.  Maybe I just didn't hit that magical setup to make it appear.  Or maybe it's no longer enabled due to negative feedback or something.

I tried the same with Pro and my best guess is they only trigger it on occasion and never when first installed, it's enabled, just not active. It may also depend on the exact ISO used and options you picked during install (Don't forget MS restores defaults at major updates, so while you disabled all that advertiser stuff on install, it will be back).


I just tested 4 different versions of Enterprise from RTM to the latest and not a one had that stuff in it, so I'm not sure what is up with your copy.
The first pic the number says it's the RTM copy (initial release), which may or may not have had One note, but nothing else. Regardless, it was not in the Dec 2016 (next major update) release. Your second pic is also the RTM install, so you have two copies of RTM, but they do not match, my bet is one has been alterred and may not even be Enterprise at all. Editing the registry to look like Enterprise is relatively easy.
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Offline Leslieann

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Re: Do you use Win10 and if so, why?
« Reply #58 on: Mon, 10 December 2018, 18:54:18 »
I have only a three year old tablet, which I use only for reading PDFs which I copy over via USB stick.
I have not got it out of airplane mode for a year or more, and am afraid of what would happen if it started downloading updates. It has "only" 32 GB storage and most of that is used up already.
It can fit, but you would probably need a usb stick to perform the updates. It's ballooned quite a bit since it was released (as they always do, XP grew to three times it's initial size), I want to say it now needs 31gigs to run normal, but less to run compressed. I don't think it's possible to run on 16gigs at this point and have the latest updates.

I do know it warns you on anything less than 31gigs, but that isn't a compressed install. I'll toy with it in a few and see.



I guess Microsoft is starting to learn from their mistakes. This is good news.
Or just responding to backlash, laws, and learning to hide it better.

They removed the worst of the tracking bits (keylogging) when the EU forced them to reveal what all was being collected (thanks to France if I remember right). A patch was issued that removed that just before they told the EU and posted what all was collected, which was basically anything and everything. Now the Dutch are claiming all of it is illegal without consent, though I'm not sure this holds up since you agree to this garbage with the license agreement. Then again, those have been shown to be troublesome as well, so...
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Offline Leslieann

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Re: Do you use Win10 and if so, why?
« Reply #59 on: Mon, 10 December 2018, 19:16:52 »
I have only a three year old tablet, which I use only for reading PDFs which I copy over via USB stick.
I have not got it out of airplane mode for a year or more, and am afraid of what would happen if it started downloading updates. It has "only" 32 GB storage and most of that is used up already.
Did some tests with the latest ISO.

32gigs it installed no problem, but it was left with only about 16.5gigs free. If you've used much of that you will probably need external storage to do major updates.
16gig was left with a pathetic 1gb of space free, so almost nothing can update without external storage. I'm still surprised it even installed.

By the way, you can set your connection as metered and it will not download updates. At least that way you can send your books through email or over the network. I would read the fine print though as it may do it anyway after a while.
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Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Do you use Win10 and if so, why?
« Reply #60 on: Mon, 10 December 2018, 19:25:28 »
I have only a three year old tablet, which I use only for reading PDFs which I copy over via USB stick.
I have not got it out of airplane mode for a year or more, and am afraid of what would happen if it started downloading updates. It has "only" 32 GB storage and most of that is used up already.
Did some tests with the latest ISO.

32gigs it installed no problem, but it was left with only about 16.5gigs free. If you've used much of that you will probably need external storage to do major updates.
16gig was left with a pathetic 1gb of space free, so almost nothing can update without external storage. I'm still surprised it even installed.

By the way, you can set your connection as metered and it will not download updates. At least that way you can send your books through email or over the network. I would read the fine print though as it may do it anyway after a while.

Leslie, have u tried them ebay oem keys? they reliable ?

Tp4 haz 10 xtra dollars this week.

Offline Leslieann

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Re: Do you use Win10 and if so, why?
« Reply #61 on: Mon, 10 December 2018, 19:53:00 »
Leslie, have u tried them ebay oem keys? they reliable ?

Tp4 haz 10 xtra dollars this week.
OEM keys are fickle, though some sellers seem reputable.
It does create problems though, for one it really annoys MS (a good thing in my book) which could lead to them killing the program, my understanding is these keys are meant for poorer countries. I think the whole thing is BS, it costs what it costs, I don't think it should be super cheap in one place and yet super expensive here. Especially with digital goods. The ironic part is that excessive piracy is what caused this, so maybe we should pirate more and force MS to lower costs here... You laugh, but this is why China pays less for Windows than we do.

I have also seen OEM keys not transfer well. So you may get it cheap, but a mobo upgrade could mean buying another, which is what happened last time I tried moving a legit oem install to a different mobo and from one laptop to another. Even using a key wipe and trying to use the newer key created issues with the install, prompting a fresh install. I spent a whole weekend fighting all of this.

The most frustrating part of all of this is it only inconveniences legit users. I've even seen instances where it was easier to install MacOs on a PC than it was to install Windows.
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Offline chuckdee

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Re: Do you use Win10 and if so, why?
« Reply #62 on: Mon, 10 December 2018, 21:52:08 »
By the way, you can set your connection as metered and it will not download updates. At least that way you can send your books through email or over the network. I would read the fine print though as it may do it anyway after a while.

I don't recommend that unless you really know the effects on what you have.  My sync software stopped when I set it to metered.

I suggest as an alternative Windows Update Blocker (https://www.majorgeeks.com/files/details/windows_update_blocker.html)  You can use that along with Windows Update Mini Tool (https://www.wilderssecurity.com/threads/windows-update-minitool.380535/) to regain control over your updates.   Note that with WUB enabled, the Microsoft Store also does not work.


Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Do you use Win10 and if so, why?
« Reply #63 on: Mon, 10 December 2018, 22:13:12 »
Leslie, have u tried them ebay oem keys? they reliable ?

Tp4 haz 10 xtra dollars this week.
OEM keys are fickle, though some sellers seem reputable.
It does create problems though, for one it really annoys MS (a good thing in my book) which could lead to them killing the program, my understanding is these keys are meant for poorer countries. I think the whole thing is BS, it costs what it costs, I don't think it should be super cheap in one place and yet super expensive here. Especially with digital goods. The ironic part is that excessive piracy is what caused this, so maybe we should pirate more and force MS to lower costs here... You laugh, but this is why China pays less for Windows than we do.

I have also seen OEM keys not transfer well. So you may get it cheap, but a mobo upgrade could mean buying another, which is what happened last time I tried moving a legit oem install to a different mobo and from one laptop to another. Even using a key wipe and trying to use the newer key created issues with the install, prompting a fresh install. I spent a whole weekend fighting all of this.

The most frustrating part of all of this is it only inconveniences legit users. I've even seen instances where it was easier to install MacOs on a PC than it was to install Windows.

Well,  it has to be cheaper in other countries, because let's say you make 40,000 usd a year, they charge you 100 usd

People in China makes 40,000 yuan, (which is normal).  There's no way they can pay 600 yuan for software, you'd get 0x sales..  So 100 yuan / 6 = $16.

Though I'm also reading that these arn't oem keys, they're some other grey market / developer keys..

Offline Leslieann

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Re: Do you use Win10 and if so, why?
« Reply #64 on: Mon, 10 December 2018, 23:09:25 »
I don't recommend that unless you really know the effects on what you have.  My sync software stopped when I set it to metered.

I suggest as an alternative Windows Update Blocker (https://www.majorgeeks.com/files/details/windows_update_blocker.html)  You can use that along with Windows Update Mini Tool (https://www.wilderssecurity.com/threads/windows-update-minitool.380535/) to regain control over your updates.   Note that with WUB enabled, the Microsoft Store also does not work.
If you use anything like this, beware.
I agree with you on not trusting metered, but with any program that blocks or removes anything in Win10, be VERY, VERY careful. MS likes to juggle the registry stuff for things like this, one of the last times I used Win10Privacy I forgot to update it before I ran it. Ms had changed some keys and I completely trashed the install (luckily it was a new install). Make sure if you use this stuff that it's current and there has been no significant updates to windows since that release. You also may need to hold off an update until the patcher gets patched, or deal with the annoyances until it gets updated.

This is the problem with Win10, where before they simply removed some power user tools, this time they are actively fighting you from using actual power user tools to take back control.
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Offline Leslieann

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Re: Do you use Win10 and if so, why?
« Reply #65 on: Mon, 10 December 2018, 23:27:42 »
Well,  it has to be cheaper in other countries, because let's say you make 40,000 usd a year, they charge you 100 usd

People in China makes 40,000 yuan, (which is normal).  There's no way they can pay 600 yuan for software, you'd get 0x sales..  So 100 yuan / 6 = $16.

Though I'm also reading that these arn't oem keys, they're some other grey market / developer keys..
It wasn't about how much they could make, but more to do with Microsoft's inability to combat piracy over there.
I.P. doesn't exist in China as we know it so there is no legal and illegal copies, it's all the same. This means MS can't break down doors and put people out of business and instead have to compete with the pirates selling on the street corner. While they are making treaties to put some IP laws in place, China has a real habit of only enforcing things when it befits them.

If they are "developer keys" they are probably beta tester keys. My understanding is if you are willing to do so, MS will still give you a free copy, you just have to sign up for the Windows insider Program. I have one, it was what forced me off Windows and onto Linux.
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Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Do you use Win10 and if so, why?
« Reply #66 on: Mon, 10 December 2018, 23:32:59 »
Well,  it has to be cheaper in other countries, because let's say you make 40,000 usd a year, they charge you 100 usd

People in China makes 40,000 yuan, (which is normal).  There's no way they can pay 600 yuan for software, you'd get 0x sales..  So 100 yuan / 6 = $16.

Though I'm also reading that these arn't oem keys, they're some other grey market / developer keys..
It wasn't about how much they could make, but more to do with Microsoft's inability to combat piracy over there.
I.P. doesn't exist in China as we know it so there is no legal and illegal copies, it's all the same. This means MS can't break down doors and put people out of business and instead have to compete with the pirates selling on the street corner. While they are making treaties to put some IP laws in place, China has a real habit of only enforcing things when it befits them.

If they are "developer keys" they are probably beta tester keys. My understanding is if you are willing to do so, MS will still give you a free copy, you just have to sign up for the Windows insider Program. I have one, it was what forced me off Windows and onto Linux.


Hahaha.. well.... that's a bit unfair..

Every nation enforces only what benefits them..

We just had a permanent resident get assassinated,  and the 'murican regime does nothing about it, because we need that middle east oil and a customer for our military hardware more than human rights..

Offline Leslieann

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Re: Do you use Win10 and if so, why?
« Reply #67 on: Mon, 10 December 2018, 23:44:12 »
Every nation enforces only what benefits them..
Yes, but China tends to take that to an extreme.
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Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Do you use Win10 and if so, why?
« Reply #68 on: Tue, 11 December 2018, 06:56:19 »
Every nation enforces only what benefits them..
Yes, but China tends to take that to an extreme.

So, Our beloved 'Murica selling weapons to stir up mid-est conflict , installing puppet regimes , 1raq war mainly killing civilians.

That is less extreme, than not respecting patent rights..


Don't get me wrong, China's got their skeletons nasty-s. (organ trade, prostitution, etc)

On the surface, you root for the team of which soil you reside, and if the oligarchs send you to war, heck, you line up..

But, during these moments where we have some room to free think, it's quite a waste not to reflect for ourselves that there are no good guys.. 



And it's really not even that people are inherently bad.. But you take millions of them together, add up the inefficiency and selfishness into what we general encircle as a nation,  this giant Pile is problem..


Offline chuckdee

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Re: Do you use Win10 and if so, why?
« Reply #69 on: Tue, 11 December 2018, 07:42:21 »
I don't recommend that unless you really know the effects on what you have.  My sync software stopped when I set it to metered.

I suggest as an alternative Windows Update Blocker (https://www.majorgeeks.com/files/details/windows_update_blocker.html)  You can use that along with Windows Update Mini Tool (https://www.wilderssecurity.com/threads/windows-update-minitool.380535/) to regain control over your updates.   Note that with WUB enabled, the Microsoft Store also does not work.
If you use anything like this, beware.
I agree with you on not trusting metered, but with any program that blocks or removes anything in Win10, be VERY, VERY careful. MS likes to juggle the registry stuff for things like this, one of the last times I used Win10Privacy I forgot to update it before I ran it. Ms had changed some keys and I completely trashed the install (luckily it was a new install). Make sure if you use this stuff that it's current and there has been no significant updates to windows since that release. You also may need to hold off an update until the patcher gets patched, or deal with the annoyances until it gets updated.

This is the problem with Win10, where before they simply removed some power user tools, this time they are actively fighting you from using actual power user tools to take back control.

Point taken on them changing the registry on certain things; I tried to create an application to update the blocked hours (or whatever they used to call it), and they changed where they stored it.  But this doesn't do anything as intrusive.  It doesn't even touch the registry; it just does some things that you can do manually in an automated fashion using the services that are there for that purpose.

More about the methodology on the original source of the application: https://www.sordum.org/9470/windows-update-blocker-v1-1/

Well,  it has to be cheaper in other countries, because let's say you make 40,000 usd a year, they charge you 100 usd

People in China makes 40,000 yuan, (which is normal).  There's no way they can pay 600 yuan for software, you'd get 0x sales..  So 100 yuan / 6 = $16.

Though I'm also reading that these arn't oem keys, they're some other grey market / developer keys..
It wasn't about how much they could make, but more to do with Microsoft's inability to combat piracy over there.
I.P. doesn't exist in China as we know it so there is no legal and illegal copies, it's all the same. This means MS can't break down doors and put people out of business and instead have to compete with the pirates selling on the street corner. While they are making treaties to put some IP laws in place, China has a real habit of only enforcing things when it befits them.

If they are "developer keys" they are probably beta tester keys. My understanding is if you are willing to do so, MS will still give you a free copy, you just have to sign up for the Windows insider Program. I have one, it was what forced me off Windows and onto Linux.


Not necessarily.  I get several keys as part of MSDN, and they are true keys, not beta tester keys.  It's not permitted to sell them, but they don't really check.  It's just a licensing issue.

Offline ddot

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Re: Do you use Win10 and if so, why?
« Reply #70 on: Tue, 11 December 2018, 17:27:16 »
The first pic the number says it's the RTM copy (initial release), which may or may not have had One note, but nothing else.

For the first test, I used the ISO: "SW_DVD5_WIN_ENT_10_1607_64BIT_English_MLF_X21-07102.ISO". (Windows 10 Enterprise, Version 1607, Updated July 2016, x64). This would have its origins on VLSC. SHA-1: F9FFEA3A40BF39CCDE105BB064E153343560D73E.  As you can see in the About Windows in the screen shot, it's version 1607 from August 2016.  RTM would be Version 1507 from July 2015.  Wikipedia has a nice summary of the different versions and their release dates.

Your second pic is also the RTM install, so you have two copies of RTM, but they do not match, my bet is one has been alterred and may not even be Enterprise at all. Editing the registry to look like Enterprise is relatively easy.

For the second test, I used the ISO: "en_windows_10_enterprise_2016_ltsb_x64_dvd_9059483.iso". (Windows 10 Enterprise LTSB, Version 1607, Updated July 2016, x64).  This would have its origins on MSDN.  SHA1: 031ED6ACDC47B8F582C781B039F501D83997A1CF.  And you're right, this one isn't Enterprise, it's Enterprise LTSB (Long Term Servicing Branch).  Related to Enterprise (probably a subset would be more accurate), but a completely separate edition.  (FYI, for anyone unfamiliar with LTSB, this article gives a fairly good primer.)  As you can see in the About Windows in the screen shot, it's also version 1607.  You can also see the "LTSB" notation in the description.  This isn't some stripped down homebrew hack.  This is an official Microsoft release direct from the source.

Just for fun, I tried downloading the latest Windows 10 Enterprise Evaluation edition right from Microsoft's Evaluation Center.  While it is evaluation, the only difference between it and full Enterprise is you can't activate it.  It's pretty easy for anyone to download and try, so it'll be easy for anyone to recreate this experiment.  (You can also download evaluation LTSB if anyone wants to play with that.)  I installed it on a fresh virtual machine.  No upgrades.  Nothing OEM.  Local account only.  Everything else was default.  Here's the result:



Xbox, One Drive, the whole works (no Candy Crush though).  But here's the real fun part.  It also has the "suggested apps" we were trying to get before!  So I guess it does exist as long as you do things just right.

I can't comment on why we're seeing different results, but my experience is everything from home to pro to enterprise is basically the same.  You just get a few more features, a few more options and a few more bits of control at each step.  The only version that has any significant difference is LTSB.

Leslie, have u tried them ebay oem keys? they reliable ?

While Microsoft's free Windows 10 push ended in 2016, they never turned off the activation servers.  If you have a legally activated copy of Windows 7 or 8 (or even an illegally activated copy for the most part, depending on exactly how you did it), you can still do the upgrade and get a proper Windows 10 license.  Grab the Media Creation Tool from the Microsoft website, run it on your Win 7/8 machine and watch Windows 10 magically appear.




Offline rowdy

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Re: Do you use Win10 and if so, why?
« Reply #71 on: Tue, 11 December 2018, 19:56:27 »
[...] and watch Windows 10 magically appear.

And then start crying :p
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But thats incorrect. Its in HHKBs slogan, but when Americas cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

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Ị̸͚̯̲́ͤ̃͑̇̑ͯ̊̂͟ͅs̞͚̩͉̝̪̲͗͊ͪ̽̚̚ ̭̦͖͕̑́͌ͬͩ͟t̷̻͔̙̑͟h̹̠̼͋ͤ͋i̤̜̣̦̱̫͈͔̞ͭ͑ͥ̌̔s̬͔͎̍̈ͥͫ̐̾ͣ̔̇͘ͅ ̩̘̼͆̐̕e̞̰͓̲̺̎͐̏ͬ̓̅̾͠͝ͅv̶̰͕̱̞̥̍ͣ̄̕e͕͙͖̬̜͓͎̤̊ͭ͐͝ṇ̰͎̱̤̟̭ͫ͌̌͢͠ͅ ̳̥̦ͮ̐ͤ̎̊ͣ͡͡n̤̜̙̺̪̒͜e̶̻̦̿ͮ̂̀c̝̘̝͖̠̖͐ͨͪ̈̐͌ͩ̀e̷̥͇̋ͦs̢̡̤ͤͤͯ͜s͈̠̉̑͘a̱͕̗͖̳̥̺ͬͦͧ͆̌̑͡r̶̟̖̈͘ỷ̮̦̩͙͔ͫ̾ͬ̔ͬͮ̌?̵̘͇͔͙ͥͪ͞ͅ

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Do you use Win10 and if so, why?
« Reply #72 on: Tue, 11 December 2018, 20:58:02 »
Got one of them grey keys.. .. it seems to activate...
 time will tell..


What are recommended speed settings.

Offline Leslieann

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Re: Do you use Win10 and if so, why?
« Reply #73 on: Tue, 11 December 2018, 21:55:12 »
Not necessarily.  I get several keys as part of MSDN, and they are true keys, not beta tester keys.  It's not permitted to sell them, but they don't really check.  It's just a licensing issue.
I could have sworn they were locked  into beta, maybe that was only for people participating after the release. or it simply changed after I stopped using it. Not ready to burn a key just to test it.


So, Our beloved 'Murica selling weapons to stir up mid-est conflict , installing puppet regimes , 1raq war mainly killing civilians.
You're going way, way off topic.
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Offline Leslieann

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Re: Do you use Win10 and if so, why?
« Reply #74 on: Tue, 11 December 2018, 21:55:46 »
As you can see in the About Windows in the screen shot, it's version 1607 from August 2016.
Was it really 2015/1507? jeez. Though it was newer than that.
Guess I should have checked the numbers on my RTM copy after all.


This would have its origins on MSDN.  SHA1: 031ED6ACDC47B8F582C781B039F501D83997A1CF.  And you're right, this one isn't Enterprise, it's Enterprise LTSB (Long Term Servicing Branch).
You are correct, you definitely want LTSB or C not just plain Enterprise to avoid the garbage. You also want to avoid the education variants. Been a while since I dealt with anything but LTSB in terms of enterprise. I forgot they even had as many variants as they do. Blah.



While Microsoft's free Windows 10 push ended in 2016, they never turned off the activation servers.  If you have a legally activated copy of Windows 7 or 8 (or even an illegally activated copy for the most part, depending on exactly how you did it), you can still do the upgrade and get a proper Windows 10 license.  Grab the Media Creation Tool from the Microsoft website, run it on your Win 7/8 machine and watch Windows 10 magically appear.
This is supposed to only work on OEM installs where others have done the upgrade or your retail copy was upgraded in the past. It shouldn't work on just any Win7 or 8 install, but surprisingly it still does. I guess they realized data harvesting paid better than they thought, that or they REALLY just want to kill Win7 (which they do).

Here is an article detailing it and how to deal with issues if you run into an error. I just tested it on a virtual machine and yes, it worked.
https://www.zdnet.com/article/heres-how-you-can-still-get-a-free-windows-10-upgrade/

By the way, the amount of junk on a fresh system has reached epic proportions. Seriously, wtf
Stock is bad, but then pile on Lenovo or other stuff and it's becoming as bad as Win98 and XP used to be from terrible vendors. Funny how MS used to rail against companies doing that, even sold special edition computers for extra money that had nothing extra, now they do it themselves.

It's a feature, not a bug?
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Offline Leslieann

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Re: Do you use Win10 and if so, why?
« Reply #75 on: Tue, 11 December 2018, 22:01:57 »
What are recommended speed settings.
Go in disable all spying in personalization, disable sounds, disable visual effects you don't need (system settings in the old control panel)... Don't forget to unhide file extensions (this SHOULD be default!). Keep in mind, if you have a decent system, none of those will make a lick of difference in terms of performance. MS doesn't like people meddling and not only will it do little, they will reset a bunch of it next major update.

If you really want to make it better, look into some tools that manage updates and spying, maybe even remove some bloat, but again, remember they will mess with other parts of the system and of course, it will all be put back next major update and you get to do it all again.
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Offline chuckdee

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Re: Do you use Win10 and if so, why?
« Reply #76 on: Tue, 11 December 2018, 22:09:53 »
Not necessarily.  I get several keys as part of MSDN, and they are true keys, not beta tester keys.  It's not permitted to sell them, but they don't really check.  It's just a licensing issue.
I could have sworn they were locked  into beta, maybe that was only for people participating after the release. or it simply changed after I stopped using it. Not ready to burn a key just to test it.



And the ones that I install from there are pretty bare.  Not sure what junk you're getting in your installs.

Offline Leslieann

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Re: Do you use Win10 and if so, why?
« Reply #77 on: Wed, 12 December 2018, 05:44:47 »
And the ones that I install from there are pretty bare.  Not sure what junk you're getting in your installs.
I meant on Home and Pro editions, I did a Win8 Virtualbox install then upgraded it to Win10 to test what DDot said, and this is what I was left with.
Nothing but Virtualbox Guest Additions have been added to this and I may have disabled the "recommended apps" advertisement.

This drives me insane, worse, the laptop I worked on today had several tiles from Lenovo added to it as well as several menu entries.
208778-0

The full start menu is too large to be inline, click me
* win10stock .jpg (118.14 kB. 321x2794 - viewed 67 times.)

Edit
While I was putting this together two new menu entries appeared, "Video Editor" and "3d viewer".
« Last Edit: Wed, 12 December 2018, 05:56:00 by Leslieann »
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Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Do you use Win10 and if so, why?
« Reply #78 on: Wed, 12 December 2018, 14:09:53 »
Win 10..   so far...


Pros:

High CPU load is more stable

Avx code is more stable

Win10 installed faster than Win7, prolly due to usb3.0 driver



Cons:

UI is sluggish vs Win7

Obfuscation

Advertisement

Definitive tracking/spying (Big Brother)

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Do you use Win10 and if so, why?
« Reply #79 on: Sat, 15 December 2018, 10:38:51 »
UEFI vs Bios..

It doesn't seem to be booting any faster..

What am I doing wrong.

Offline Skull_Angel

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Re: Do you use Win10 and if so, why?
« Reply #80 on: Sat, 15 December 2018, 16:49:23 »
UEFI vs Bios..

It doesn't seem to be booting any faster..

What am I doing wrong.


C'mon TP, you know UEFI is the new standard because kids these days don't know how to use the navigation cluster.

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Do you use Win10 and if so, why?
« Reply #81 on: Sat, 15 December 2018, 17:09:32 »
UEFI vs Bios..

It doesn't seem to be booting any faster..

What am I doing wrong.


C'mon TP, you know UEFI is the new standard because kids these days don't know how to use the navigation cluster.

Hahahaha.. yea, but the documentation says it's supposed to boot faster because it can control more hardware directly.

Offline Leslieann

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Re: Do you use Win10 and if so, why?
« Reply #82 on: Sat, 15 December 2018, 18:12:32 »
UEFI CAN be faster, but rarely is, but that is because of expectations and default settings.

One way it's faster is Windows cold boots.
Just like Windows 8, if you use Windows shutdown, it technically only goes to sleep. This is only possible because of UEFI. Do a restart or hold shift when shutting down to do a real shutdown. You can also disable Windows fast boot to make it work this way. In other words, you think it's no better because you've been lied to.

The other half of this is your bios settings.
You need to into bios and enable Fast Boot, this tells UEFI to not scan the hardware and just boot. It can shave seconds off your bios boot time. HOWEVER... Some bios have different levels for this setting, some do not and knowing what this setting does is very important. Certain levels of Fast Boot disable USB during boot, by this I mean, your keyboard will not work, so you will be unable to get into bios without either resetting bios or boot into Windows and holding shift and telling it to reboot into the UEFI menu. Not all options do this and newer systems will ignore all usb except the keyboard, but you need to know what it does before you set it and are unable to enter bios.
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Offline Leslieann

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Re: Do you use Win10 and if so, why?
« Reply #83 on: Sat, 15 December 2018, 18:30:30 »
By the way, a revelation came out the other day that explains why techs have been having problems with Win10 than normal Windows users.

Apparently, a while back Microsoft made a change to Windows Update without telling anyone, well, they did, on a blog post, but nothing mainstream. What changed? If you manually click Windows Update, you will get BETA updates. This is actually not stupid, the system handles updates just fine, and really only needs to be used if you are trying to fix an issue with a normal update, however, this is not how Windows update has ever run in the past, and worse, MS never bothered to tell anyone and that is BS.

So, why does this explain the problem techs have been having?
Because when we build a system, we often will hammer that in order to make sure the system is up to date before shipping a system to a customer. We don't want to have to leave it running for hours waiting for the system to decide when it wants to update and we often want to monitor the update process to make sure the system did it properly. We also don;t want to hand it off to a customer, then have them get home or arrive on a site to find it immediately needs to install some massive update (something I run into almost every time I work on a win10 system).

So all this time we've been doing this, we've been unknowingly installing what amounts to alpha or beta updates on customer systems.
Thanks, Microsoft, thank you very f'ing much.
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Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Do you use Win10 and if so, why?
« Reply #84 on: Sat, 15 December 2018, 20:25:48 »

If you manually click Windows Update, you will get BETA updates.


Dayum! Who knew?
"I never understood wind. I know windmills very much, I have studied it better than anybody. I know it is very expensive. They are made in China and Germany mostly, very few made here, almost none, but they are manufactured, tremendous if you are into this tremendous fumes and gases are spewing into the atmosphere. You know we have a world, right? So the world is tiny compared to the universe. So tremendous, tremendous amount of fumes and everything. You talk about the carbon footprint, fumes are spewing into the air, right spewing, whether it is China or Germany, is going into the air.
A windmill will kill many bald eagles. After a certain number, they make you turn the windmill off, that is true. By the way, they make you turn it off. And yet, if you killed one, they put you in jail. That is OK. But why is it OK for windmills to destroy the bird population?"
- Donald Trump - Turning Point USA speech 2019-12-22

Offline csmertx

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Re: Do you use Win10 and if so, why?
« Reply #85 on: Sat, 15 December 2018, 20:29:58 »
More
 / another 3d keyboard model thread / BSD thread / github / falotalt
Quote
...Especially the Florida cousins, who obviously can't take a hint.

Offline chuckdee

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Re: Do you use Win10 and if so, why?
« Reply #86 on: Sat, 15 December 2018, 21:28:25 »
Apparently, a while back Microsoft made a change to Windows Update without telling anyone, well, they did, on a blog post, but nothing mainstream. What changed? If you manually click Windows Update, you will get BETA updates. This is actually not stupid, the system handles updates just fine, and really only needs to be used if you are trying to fix an issue with a normal update, however, this is not how Windows update has ever run in the past, and worse, MS never bothered to tell anyone and that is BS.

Link?


Offline csmertx

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Re: Do you use Win10 and if so, why?
« Reply #88 on: Sat, 15 December 2018, 21:42:05 »
Show Image


what is the meaning behind this ?

I wanted to slap together some clipart to fit the mood of this thread.
More
 / another 3d keyboard model thread / BSD thread / github / falotalt
Quote
...Especially the Florida cousins, who obviously can't take a hint.

Offline Leslieann

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Offline chuckdee

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Re: Do you use Win10 and if so, why?
« Reply #90 on: Sat, 15 December 2018, 23:09:20 »
Link?
Summary
https://www.pcworld.idg.com.au/article/650791/careful-windows-10-check-updates-button-may-download-beta-code/

Straight from the horses mouth...
https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexperience/2018/12/10/windows-monthly-security-and-quality-updates-overview/#LcV9lITe3UqkOpIC.97

Seems like looking at it they may have realized how it was being taken, and updated it since you first saw it, i.e.

Quote
Editors note: Edited on 12/14 to clarify that the C and D monthly releases are validated, production-quality optional releases.

Offline Leslieann

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Re: Do you use Win10 and if so, why?
« Reply #91 on: Sun, 16 December 2018, 01:23:48 »
Seems like looking at it they may have realized how it was being taken, and updated it since you first saw it, i.e.

Quote
Editors note: Edited on 12/14 to clarify that the C and D monthly releases are validated, production-quality optional releases.
That doesn't actually change anything despite how it sounds and frankly just ticks me off even more.

Basically, if you have a weird issue, you can click the button and if you are lucky some "optional" update will fix your problem?
Take for instance the example where they used it to fix the Surface tablets bluescreening, okay, great, but who told you to click the button to get the update? What happens to those without a Surface and click the button? Was it validated safe for them? Why do non surface owners need it? How about all the other updates that came with it that you may not need?

Look, if they wanted this as an optional update to fix a problem I have no problem with it, but it needs to be labeled as such (click me to try and fix your problem). This is Russian Roulette without bothering to tell people they are even playing. Will this fix your problem, will it brick your system? Who knows, but here is a patch labeled as an update we told you nothing about anyway.
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Offline chuckdee

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Re: Do you use Win10 and if so, why?
« Reply #92 on: Sun, 16 December 2018, 08:49:06 »
Seems like looking at it they may have realized how it was being taken, and updated it since you first saw it, i.e.

Quote
Editors note: Edited on 12/14 to clarify that the C and D monthly releases are validated, production-quality optional releases.
That doesn't actually change anything despite how it sounds and frankly just ticks me off even more.

Basically, if you have a weird issue, you can click the button and if you are lucky some "optional" update will fix your problem?
Take for instance the example where they used it to fix the Surface tablets bluescreening, okay, great, but who told you to click the button to get the update? What happens to those without a Surface and click the button? Was it validated safe for them? Why do non surface owners need it? How about all the other updates that came with it that you may not need?

Look, if they wanted this as an optional update to fix a problem I have no problem with it, but it needs to be labeled as such (click me to try and fix your problem). This is Russian Roulette without bothering to tell people they are even playing. Will this fix your problem, will it brick your system? Who knows, but here is a patch labeled as an update we told you nothing about anyway.

They've had optional updates since the whole Windows Updaye became a thing.  You have alwats had to look at release notes to see if optiinal updates were something that you wanted to install.  Admittedly, this is a bit less granular, i. e. you install the whole optional update package or nothing, but they are updates that most will not need.

Offline Leslieann

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Re: Do you use Win10 and if so, why?
« Reply #93 on: Mon, 17 December 2018, 03:28:02 »
They've had optional updates since the whole Windows Updaye became a thing.  You have alwats had to look at release notes to see if optiinal updates were something that you wanted to install.  Admittedly, this is a bit less granular, i. e. you install the whole optional update package or nothing, but they are updates that most will not need.

Yes, but win10 doesn't tell you about what the updates are anymore.
And these optional are not for everyone.
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Offline no, the other guy

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Re: Do you use Win10 and if so, why?
« Reply #94 on: Mon, 17 December 2018, 06:51:36 »
you know UEFI is the new standard because kids these days don't know how to use the navigation cluster.

And as with other trends ("standards"), I tend to disable it on most of my laptops.
<armin> i have the impression the only reason the mx red switch was invented was drunk people

       
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Offline csmertx

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Re: Do you use Win10 and if so, why?
« Reply #95 on: Sun, 23 December 2018, 12:35:36 »
Needed to use a laptop with Win10 on it so that I could install LineageOS on my Mom's Tab 3 10.1" 3g (rooting software, etc.).

(..had to install the earliest version of gapps 7.1 <2017-08-29> but worked beautifully once that was sorted. Haven't had a complaint yet, so it must be working fine.).

I feel for anyone running win10 home with a single 5400rpm HDD. I'd set-up updates for as late as possible and never turn the damn PC off  :confused:.
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Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Do you use Win10 and if so, why?
« Reply #96 on: Sun, 23 December 2018, 18:46:46 »
Needed to use a laptop with Win10 on it so that I could install LineageOS on my Mom's Tab 3 10.1" 3g (rooting software, etc.).

(..had to install the earliest version of gapps 7.1 <2017-08-29> but worked beautifully once that was sorted. Haven't had a complaint yet, so it must be working fine.).

I feel for anyone running win10 home with a single 5400rpm HDD. I'd set-up updates for as late as possible and never turn the damn PC off  :confused:.


Fresh install, it's not sooooo bad,  but give it about a week, sludge mode..

Offline TheNamesTy45

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Re: Do you use Win10 and if so, why?
« Reply #97 on: Sun, 23 December 2018, 20:38:26 »
Win 10 on all of my machines.

Reasons why:

  • I use Visual Studio at work, and I tend to use the code environment I have at work at home. I know there's a Mac version now, but I haven't tried that yet, and I'm curious to see how it stacks up.
  • I use Adobe Illustrator and Photoshop frequently. I have used GIMP and Inkscape, but I usually come back to the Adobe versions because it's more applicable to my work life.
  • I prefer to build my computers. I enjoy picking the aesthetic of the build and deciding which parts I actually want for what I'll be using the system for. Plus, it's fun for me to keep up with the latest happenings in computer hardware.
  • I don't own a console, so I like being able to play a wide library of games when the urge strikes.
  • For me, it's been extremely stable. The only issue I had was back in the early days of Skylake, but that got fixed relatively quickly.

I have run Ubuntu (standard and MATE), Elementary OS, and Mint, but it's a no-go for me because I want full Visual Studio and Adobe products without having to either virtualize or use WINE or some other emulator.

If I had an officially supported way to run Mac OS on a system that I put together AND the Mac version of Visual Studio is up to par with the Windows version, I'd probably end up switching over to that as I really like the aesthetic of the OS and integration with iOS.

Offline Leslieann

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Re: Do you use Win10 and if so, why?
« Reply #98 on: Sun, 23 December 2018, 21:43:07 »
I really like the aesthetic of the OS and integration with iOS.
Mac users often talk about this, but honestly, it's not nearly as great as they think it is and is far worse than outsiders think.

While it works fine, using OSX feels very clunky. It hasn't scaled well with technology (newer hardware bring expected increased speeds compared to Linux and Windows) and while the interface looks great, it was designed to be simple and look great sitting in a store or on a desk. If you're a person who has 3 or more things running at once, the interface quickly looses it's appeal, especially on a desktop with multiple screens and a mouse. In such a use case, the OS has more in common with XP than the slick functionality people rave about.

That said, if done right, a Hackintosh works perfectly fine, so well in fact that many Mac power users are building them instead of buying Apple computers, at least on the desktop. If you want a mac laptop, buy an Apple product, though I hesitate to recommend any Apple computer currently being sold.
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Offline TheNamesTy45

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Re: Do you use Win10 and if so, why?
« Reply #99 on: Sun, 23 December 2018, 21:52:25 »
I really like the aesthetic of the OS and integration with iOS.
Mac users often talk about this, but honestly, it's not nearly as great as they think it is and is far worse than outsiders think.

While it works fine, using OSX feels very clunky. It hasn't scaled well with technology (newer hardware bring expected increased speeds compared to Linux and Windows) and while the interface looks great, it was designed to be simple and look great sitting in a store or on a desk. If you're a person who has 3 or more things running at once, the interface quickly looses it's appeal, especially on a desktop with multiple screens and a mouse. In such a use case, the OS has more in common with XP than the slick functionality people rave about.

That said, if done right, a Hackintosh works perfectly fine, so well in fact that many Mac power users are building them instead of buying Apple computers, at least on the desktop. If you want a mac laptop, buy an Apple product, though I hesitate to recommend any Apple computer currently being sold.

Yeah, haven't loved the computer hardware from them, but I do like the way they handled multiple desktops better. My last job was a Mac shop, and it was nice being able to change the desktop on just one screen instead of all of them at once everytime like I have to do with Win 10. Also, for some reason if I'm in the task view on windows so that I can see all open apps on a virtual desktop, I can move a window from one virtual desktop to another on the same monitor, but never across monitors. Just something that needs a bit more polish on the windows side of things.