Author Topic: Transmission repair [Halp]  (Read 741 times)

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Online tp4tissue

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Transmission repair [Halp]
« on: Fri, 18 January 2019, 11:03:01 »
Guys, transmission problem..

Thoughts ?

Need to find repair shop.. 

is AAMCO type national brand better than the sketchier local shops ?


It just seems like EVERY shop has terrible online reviews (even AAMCO), and people claiming overcharged/ sell unnecessary service, etc..

How to deal with this ?




Offline katushkin

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Re: Transmission repair [Halp]
« Reply #1 on: Fri, 18 January 2019, 11:12:50 »
Transmissions are hard, especially automatic ones. Honestly I mostly ignore online reviews for garages, but they are largely hit and miss until you find a good one that you then stick to.

If you do know what the real issue is then at least you have an advantage and you can stop them selling you unnecessary ****.
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Online BlindAssassin111

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Re: Transmission repair [Halp]
« Reply #2 on: Fri, 18 January 2019, 11:32:46 »
You can also contact local performance shops to see if they have any recommendations for good local transmission shops, seeing as they usually have connections with the better shops if they don't do the work themselves.

I rebuilt my trans last year myself because I was quoted $1800 for labor alone.

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Re: Transmission repair [Halp]
« Reply #3 on: Fri, 18 January 2019, 11:43:59 »
Transmissions are hard, especially automatic ones. Honestly I mostly ignore online reviews for garages, but they are largely hit and miss until you find a good one that you then stick to.

If you do know what the real issue is then at least you have an advantage and you can stop them selling you unnecessary ****.

I don't know the precise issue, the car was leaking coolant and transmission fluid somewhere.. and the radiator's might be damaged.


You can also contact local performance shops to see if they have any recommendations for good local transmission shops, seeing as they usually have connections with the better shops if they don't do the work themselves.

I rebuilt my trans last year myself because I was quoted $1800 for labor alone.


What sort of lifting tools is required for this ?

Man,  this feels exactly like how people must feel when they take a broken computer to bestbuy,  ready for slaughter.

As a ManCard on probations individual,  should Tp4 learn to fix a transmission..  hrrmmm...

Online BlindAssassin111

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Re: Transmission repair [Halp]
« Reply #4 on: Fri, 18 January 2019, 12:45:20 »
What sort of lifting tools is required for this ?

Man,  this feels exactly like how people must feel when they take a broken computer to bestbuy,  ready for slaughter.

As a ManCard on probations individual,  should Tp4 learn to fix a transmission..  hrrmmm...


Well the difference may be that I have a degree in mechanical engineering and was on a formula race team for 4 years...so I may or may not know what I am doing lol.

Automatics also require a lot more knowledge to repair than manuals, as they implement much more complicated mechanisms to work as they do.

Not much is needed to do the job in a driveway(I have done it both on a lift and driveway) you need a jack and 4 jack stands, plus a lot of tools and time. To do the job on my car took 4 hours to remove it, 2-3 hours to rebuild and 8 hours to put it back in, this is on a FWD car where they didn't expect people to remove the trans while the whole from subframe(which connects suspension and drivetrain to the cars frame), so it required most of the front end to be dissassembled.

Offline Leslieann

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Re: Transmission repair [Halp]
« Reply #5 on: Fri, 18 January 2019, 17:52:31 »
I don't know the precise issue, the car was leaking coolant and transmission fluid somewhere.. and the radiator's might be damaged.
If it's leaking both it's the radiator, however you may have damaged the transmission if it ran hot and possibly dry. Dry is usually less of a concern.
Typically you can smell the dipstick, if it smells or tastes burnt or like paint varnish it's toast, if this is the case, do NOT change the fluid(!). When the clutch packs burn, all their friction material gets trapped in the burned fluid, allowing for some mobility, many people think replacing the fluid will fix things but what it really does is remove what is left of the friction material and the transmission starts to slip entirely right away. The damage is already done at that point, and it will fail, but you have a choice of it either failing slowly or it can fail fast.

As for getting it fixed if you've not dealt with automatic transmissions before, take it to a pro, preferably one who is A.T.R.A. certified (Automatic Transmission Rebuilders Association).

And no TP, you will not learn automatics in your driveway in a weekend. You might get it to work for a short time, but they are way, way more complicated than people realize. They are relatively simple once you understand them, but getting that understanding is not easy. Worse, on many newer cars you have to drop the entire front subframe and engine to get the transmission out and that means coming out the bottom while on a lift.
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Re: Transmission repair [Halp]
« Reply #6 on: Fri, 18 January 2019, 18:27:01 »
I don't know the precise issue, the car was leaking coolant and transmission fluid somewhere.. and the radiator's might be damaged.
If it's leaking both it's the radiator, however you may have damaged the transmission if it ran hot and possibly dry. Dry is usually less of a concern.
Typically you can smell the dipstick, if it smells or tastes burnt or like paint varnish it's toast, if this is the case, do NOT change the fluid(!). When the clutch packs burn, all their friction material gets trapped in the burned fluid, allowing for some mobility, many people think replacing the fluid will fix things but what it really does is remove what is left of the friction material and the transmission starts to slip entirely right away. The damage is already done at that point, and it will fail, but you have a choice of it either failing slowly or it can fail fast.

As for getting it fixed if you've not dealt with automatic transmissions before, take it to a pro, preferably one who is A.T.R.A. certified (Automatic Transmission Rebuilders Association).

And no TP, you will not learn automatics in your driveway in a weekend. You might get it to work for a short time, but they are way, way more complicated than people realize. They are relatively simple once you understand them, but getting that understanding is not easy. Worse, on many newer cars you have to drop the entire front subframe and engine to get the transmission out and that means coming out the bottom while on a lift.


Offline kurplop

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Re: Transmission repair [Halp]
« Reply #7 on: Fri, 18 January 2019, 18:39:19 »
TP shouldn’t have spent all his cash on DeWalt tools.


Offline JianYang

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Re: Transmission repair [Halp]
« Reply #9 on: Fri, 18 January 2019, 23:37:58 »
I don't know the precise issue, the car was leaking coolant and transmission fluid somewhere.. and the radiator's might be damaged.
If it's leaking both it's the radiator, however you may have damaged the transmission if it ran hot and possibly dry. Dry is usually less of a concern.
Typically you can smell the dipstick, if it smells or tastes burnt or like paint varnish it's toast, if this is the case, do NOT change the fluid(!). When the clutch packs burn, all their friction material gets trapped in the burned fluid, allowing for some mobility, many people think replacing the fluid will fix things but what it really does is remove what is left of the friction material and the transmission starts to slip entirely right away. The damage is already done at that point, and it will fail, but you have a choice of it either failing slowly or it can fail fast.

As for getting it fixed if you've not dealt with automatic transmissions before, take it to a pro, preferably one who is A.T.R.A. certified (Automatic Transmission Rebuilders Association).

And no TP, you will not learn automatics in your driveway in a weekend. You might get it to work for a short time, but they are way, way more complicated than people realize. They are relatively simple once you understand them, but getting that understanding is not easy. Worse, on many newer cars you have to drop the entire front subframe and engine to get the transmission out and that means coming out the bottom while on a lift.

Well, if coolant and transmission fluid mixed, you are looking at rebuilding the entire gearbox. The valvebody might be alright, but all the clutchpacks will need to be replaced as the glue that sticks the clutch material to the plates dissolve in water. You also need to do it in a very clean environment. Personally, even though I would be able to do it, I would rather pay somebody with experience to do it as it is not an easy task and one mistake means you do it again, and parts are the biggest part of the cost - basically what you said in the last paragraph

Offline Leslieann

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Re: Transmission repair [Halp]
« Reply #10 on: Sat, 19 January 2019, 01:55:08 »
Well, if coolant and transmission fluid mixed, you are looking at rebuilding the entire gearbox. The valvebody might be alright, but all the clutchpacks will need to be replaced as the glue that sticks the clutch material to the plates dissolve in water. You also need to do it in a very clean environment. Personally, even though I would be able to do it, I would rather pay somebody with experience to do it as it is not an easy task and one mistake means you do it again, and parts are the biggest part of the cost - basically what you said in the last paragraph

The only place coolant and trans fluids come together (with a thin wall between them) is in the radiator.
If both are leaking, it makes sense for it to be here, especially since the transmission runs at a much higher psi than the radiator does. I forget the exact pressures, but it's much higher than coolant. The odds of the radiator wall leaking fluid into the transmission and then both fluids leaking from the transmission is slim to none. The transmission would more than likely stop engaging clutches before you saw a leak.


Rebuild parts are usually only about 10-20% of the cost to rebuild a transmission.
Performance hard parts, yeah, things go up fast when you are talking billet parts, but even performance clutches are not that much more than a standard rebuild kit (usually a couple hundred bucks).  Where most go wrong is clutch pack tolerances and trying to purge the old fluid from the convertor and valve body, they either don't do it well enough, or they put something back together wrong in the valve body.
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Offline p_blaze

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Re: Transmission repair [Halp]
« Reply #11 on: Sat, 19 January 2019, 02:07:34 »
ask your friends for a good local mechanic recommendation

Offline Leslieann

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Re: Transmission repair [Halp]
« Reply #12 on: Sat, 19 January 2019, 02:16:06 »
TP,
Find out where the problem is first.

If it is the radiator, fix the radiator, sniff test the trans, then either fill (if burnt) or fill then flush the trans (if clean), if you are still worried or it's burnt, sell the car, ASAP.


If it's the transmission (or radiator and transmission):
If this is rear wheel drive, you can do it yourself if you have some mechanical ability. Pick one up from a salvage yard (they come with a short warranty) and put it in with some help. BEWARE the torque converter, if you install it wrong it will shatter the pump, it should pop into place 2-3 times depending on the model (turn and push, turn and push, turn and push, no forcing). If it was not removed, ensure it's still all the way in, don't pull the transmission into place with the bolts and crush things. Depending on the vehicle, you can often do this for a few hundred bucks and install it in an afternoon or weekend with fairly common tools, just make sure it's an identical match, and I do mean IDENTICAL. With today's computer controls, you have to be really careful about mixing and matching. A minor mid year change can create issues with compatibility and make it not want to shift.

If it's front wheel drive, it most likely can be done topside (through the hood) with a cherry picker if you are willing to pretty much gut the engine bay, but this is usually at least a week or more project for most people and not to be taken lightly. If you want to keep this car for some reason (sentimental, collector car or something), fix it, but take your time. Now is the time to do the front suspension and add some performance parts while it's down and easy to get to. You may also want to take your time and buy a cheap commuter you can sell again later to use while it's down.

If it's not a car you want to keep, trade it in or put it on Craigslist and be done with it. There are a slew of guys willing to buy a car like that to fix and sell for profit. Expect to get about half normal value, but that may be better than putting more money into an older car that may be starting to show it's age. This is not a project you want to tackle on something you have no attachment to.
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Offline Leslieann

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Re: Transmission repair [Halp]
« Reply #13 on: Sat, 19 January 2019, 02:37:07 »
It just seems like EVERY shop has terrible online reviews (even AAMCO), and people claiming overcharged/ sell unnecessary service, etc..
They all will given enough time.
People depend on their cars and when they get bad news (expensive bad news), they get angry. They also tend to make completely unreasonable demands and expect everything cheap, free, covered under warranty or blame the mechanic when other problems are inevitably found. Plus, it takes time out of their day to do all of this and usually at the most inopportune time (is there ever an opportune time for it to happen?).

Yes, shops do an inspection hoping to up-sell you into other things, but when they tell you your wheel bearings are shot and your wheel is wobbling all over the place wearing out the tire when you only came in for a brake repair, don't get pissed at the mechanic and expect him to fix the brakes and not the wheel bearing or tire. Any time you open something mechanical for a problem, that means something is either worn out from normal wear and tear or from collateral damage and other things are likely effected. Unfortunately people are irrational, especially when they are upset.

Add to this the shops that do ripoff customers and you have a customer base that doesn't trust the mechanic.
Car dealers are one of the least trusted people, and they rightly earned that reputation. They offer you too little for the car you've come to know and like, tell you things are bad that still work and then try and charge too much for a new car.. If you ever wanted bad business model, there you go.

I'm not saying those reviews are wrong, or right, just saying how the industry is. Given enough time, you will hear had things about every single mechanic and dealership. There is too much money, competition and sentimentality around cars for it to be all roses.


ask your friends for a good local mechanic recommendation
That depends on where you live.
In small town America you are likely to get a recommendation to their family friend who hooks them up, but not you.
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Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Transmission repair [Halp]
« Reply #14 on: Sat, 19 January 2019, 08:35:51 »

ask your friends for a good local mechanic recommendation


That depends on where you live.


I hear what you are saying, but personal recommendations are the best place to start. I have a trusted local mechanic that I have been going to for over 20 years, and I got that on a recommendation.

At this point we are even one generation on with the original owner's son now in charge. But I realize that I am lucky.


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I do not refer to the obvious and ineluctable fact that some people are smarter than others but, rather, to the fact that some people have the resources to try to understand our society while most do not. Late last year, Benjamin Schmidt, a professor of history at Northeastern University, published a study demonstrating that, for the past decade, history has been declining more rapidly than any other major, even as more and more students attend college.
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Offline JianYang

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Re: Transmission repair [Halp]
« Reply #15 on: Mon, 21 January 2019, 02:35:29 »
Well, if coolant and transmission fluid mixed, you are looking at rebuilding the entire gearbox. The valvebody might be alright, but all the clutchpacks will need to be replaced as the glue that sticks the clutch material to the plates dissolve in water. You also need to do it in a very clean environment. Personally, even though I would be able to do it, I would rather pay somebody with experience to do it as it is not an easy task and one mistake means you do it again, and parts are the biggest part of the cost - basically what you said in the last paragraph

The only place coolant and trans fluids come together (with a thin wall between them) is in the radiator.
If both are leaking, it makes sense for it to be here, especially since the transmission runs at a much higher psi than the radiator does. I forget the exact pressures, but it's much higher than coolant. The odds of the radiator wall leaking fluid into the transmission and then both fluids leaking from the transmission is slim to none. The transmission would more than likely stop engaging clutches before you saw a leak.


Rebuild parts are usually only about 10-20% of the cost to rebuild a transmission.
Performance hard parts, yeah, things go up fast when you are talking billet parts, but even performance clutches are not that much more than a standard rebuild kit (usually a couple hundred bucks).  Where most go wrong is clutch pack tolerances and trying to purge the old fluid from the convertor and valve body, they either don't do it well enough, or they put something back together wrong in the valve body.

It happens in some instances that the radiator corrodes and will mix water and transmission fluid. The radiator side of the transmission fluid is usually not on the high pressure side, and even if it is, the coolant will remain under pressure for a long time after shut down, where the ATF will not. So if there is a fault with the radiator, the water will enter the transmission. Cost does depend on the transmission, but usually it is more than 1/3 of the cost. Proper clutchpacks with quality comparable to OEM is expensive, unless you are looking at a 3 or 4 speed ancient box. That and the valve body usually gets replaced with a refurb and a lot of other bits and bobs.

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Re: Transmission repair [Halp]
« Reply #16 on: Tue, 22 January 2019, 18:49:47 »
Background:: During the -Incident-, Tp4 simply smelled something, and immediately stopped the car,  looked in, fluid gushing out


Back from the mechanic:

He says root cause was a cracked Transmission fluid/ coolant tank, leading to fluid loss, leading to some overheat..


Some alleged internal damage, but they haven't taken the transmission apart, they don't know for sure.

They put in a new radiator, the car is drivable.

They said there's a little bit of - chatter -,   Tp4 couldn't feel that while driving it..

And they said that their computer readout says there's some issue with -Lock Up- which doesn't engage going from 3rd to 4th, where it's suppose to engage..



Thoughts ??






 


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Re: Transmission repair [Halp]
« Reply #17 on: Tue, 22 January 2019, 19:26:36 »
What vehicle is it? That can help if someone happens to have knowledge of the platform.

So fluid(which type? both or just one?) leaked and they replaced the radiator, but did they mention anything about how much was missing? Because you could have had a leak that lost an amount that wouldn't cause issues or a large amount that would destroy it. I know you say it was gushing but that doesn't really tell an amount, if you don't know that is okay, but it helps to know if you lost a dangerous amount.

And the lockup issue is interesting, that would be more of a line pressure issue(lockup is when the transmission locks the torque converter to 1:1 drive so it is more efficient and transferring the power, line pressure being the pressure of the fluid in the trans used to activate lockup and even for shifting). But it is odd that it doesn't engage, I am not too familiar with when certain automatic transmissions lock up, but that doesn't sound like it would have anything to do with overheating.

Have you tried to floor it and see if the RPM rises really quickly without speed increasing like it would normally? This would be the trans slipping and is a more common result from overheating an automatic.

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Re: Transmission repair [Halp]
« Reply #18 on: Tue, 22 January 2019, 19:40:16 »
What vehicle is it? That can help if someone happens to have knowledge of the platform.

So fluid(which type? both or just one?) leaked and they replaced the radiator, but did they mention anything about how much was missing? Because you could have had a leak that lost an amount that wouldn't cause issues or a large amount that would destroy it. I know you say it was gushing but that doesn't really tell an amount, if you don't know that is okay, but it helps to know if you lost a dangerous amount.

And the lockup issue is interesting, that would be more of a line pressure issue(lockup is when the transmission locks the torque converter to 1:1 drive so it is more efficient and transferring the power, line pressure being the pressure of the fluid in the trans used to activate lockup and even for shifting). But it is odd that it doesn't engage, I am not too familiar with when certain automatic transmissions lock up, but that doesn't sound like it would have anything to do with overheating.

Have you tried to floor it and see if the RPM rises really quickly without speed increasing like it would normally? This would be the trans slipping and is a more common result from overheating an automatic.

This is an acura van.

yes, Tp4 floored it after leaving the shop when no one was looking/ in the way, works fine..

The mechanic said the lockup issue is past ~40mph, where it's suppose to reduce engine rpm by 500 or something to provide more fuel economy..

I am quite certain the leak happened catastrophically all at once, because it was certainly not leaking in the drive way..

The cracked coolant/transmission oil tank must've developed overnight in the cold,  and the INCIDENT was only 3 miles from the house.

As for the coolant getting into the transmission,  they said they did see a little bit in there, because the crack tank did cause some of it to mix.

But it hasn't operated in long term in this manner. only that day of, and then the whole system was flushed right away when they put in the new radiator..


Offline Leslieann

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Re: Transmission repair [Halp]
« Reply #19 on: Tue, 22 January 2019, 22:06:23 »
This is an acura van.
The mechanic said the lockup issue is past ~40mph, where it's suppose to reduce engine rpm by 500 or something to provide more fuel economy..
Flooring it disengages the lockup, it only engages while cruising when there is the least difference between engine rpm and the input shaft of the transmission. Cruising the highway is where it will happen, it will likely feel like you hit an old rumble strip on the road that they paved over (and not well).

Some converters chatter on lockup when they get old so it may have been there and you just never noticed. I'm not saying it's good (it's not), just that it may not be a sign of impending doom either, I know if at least one that had gone nearly 30k miles with a chattering lockup before being traded in.

If you feel lucky, roll with it, otherwise, get out now while the getting is good.
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Re: Transmission repair [Halp]
« Reply #20 on: Wed, 23 January 2019, 09:07:55 »
This is an acura van.
The mechanic said the lockup issue is past ~40mph, where it's suppose to reduce engine rpm by 500 or something to provide more fuel economy..
Flooring it disengages the lockup, it only engages while cruising when there is the least difference between engine rpm and the input shaft of the transmission. Cruising the highway is where it will happen, it will likely feel like you hit an old rumble strip on the road that they paved over (and not well).

Some converters chatter on lockup when they get old so it may have been there and you just never noticed. I'm not saying it's good (it's not), just that it may not be a sign of impending doom either, I know if at least one that had gone nearly 30k miles with a chattering lockup before being traded in.

If you feel lucky, roll with it, otherwise, get out now while the getting is good.

Just checked the transmission fluid levels, It's an inch higher than the indicator on the dipstick, so ~1quart more than should be in there.

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Offline Leslieann

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Re: Transmission repair [Halp]
« Reply #21 on: Wed, 23 January 2019, 21:05:04 »
How did you check it?

Check the manual for how to check transmission fluid levels, if you check it like engine oil it can (will) be very wrong due to converter drain back.
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Re: Transmission repair [Halp]
« Reply #22 on: Wed, 23 January 2019, 22:06:31 »
How did you check it?

Check the manual for how to check transmission fluid levels, if you check it like engine oil it can (will) be very wrong due to converter drain back.

It's a dip stick like the oil, only it's transmission

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Re: Transmission repair [Halp]
« Reply #23 on: Wed, 23 January 2019, 22:15:36 »
How did you check it?

Check the manual for how to check transmission fluid levels, if you check it like engine oil it can (will) be very wrong due to converter drain back.

It's a dip stick like the oil, only it's transmission

NO you need to remove the dipstick and then use your human trouser snake to check levels. The mechanic probably filled it to compensate for the fluid displacement that occurs when using a skin pen.

mechanic 101. always use blue vein cigars to check fluids.

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Re: Transmission repair [Halp]
« Reply #24 on: Wed, 23 January 2019, 22:30:02 »

NO you need to remove the dipstick and then use your human trouser snake to check levels. The mechanic probably filled it to compensate for the fluid displacement that occurs when using a skin pen.

mechanic 101. always use blue vein cigars to check fluids.



One can tell Fanpeep possess too much pent up secsual angst from working away from home, thereby unleashing it all over the internet just wherevers..

Go to that brothal Fanpeep, Surly  jesus would forgive Fanpeep,  better tame that energy before it destroys one's mind.

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Re: Transmission repair [Halp]
« Reply #25 on: Wed, 23 January 2019, 22:55:18 »

NO you need to remove the dipstick and then use your human trouser snake to check levels. The mechanic probably filled it to compensate for the fluid displacement that occurs when using a skin pen.

mechanic 101. always use blue vein cigars to check fluids.



One can tell Fanpeep possess too much pent up secsual angst from working away from home, thereby unleashing it all over the internet just wherevers..

Go to that brothal Fanpeep, Surly  jesus would forgive Fanpeep,  better tame that energy before it destroys one's mind.


Nah i got another job and am back home now, i'm just butt hurt that someone decided to actually start moderating GH again.

Apparently not allowed to hint at storing clacks in you foreskin.

Offline StickyBlueJuice

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Re: Transmission repair [Halp]
« Reply #26 on: Thu, 24 January 2019, 00:21:39 »
Apparently not allowed to hint at storing clacks in you foreskin.
At first I was like  :eek: then I was like  :))

Offline Leslieann

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Re: Transmission repair [Halp]
« Reply #27 on: Thu, 24 January 2019, 03:18:36 »
It's a dip stick like the oil, only it's transmission
Some of them need to be checked with the engine running, while in drive and warmed up, others want to be checked while cold.

It varies a lot.
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Re: Transmission repair [Halp]
« Reply #28 on: Thu, 24 January 2019, 07:33:41 »
It's a dip stick like the oil, only it's transmission
Some of them need to be checked with the engine running, while in drive and warmed up, others want to be checked while cold.

It varies a lot.

/Head scratch, are you guys sure ?  my stick has this range on it,  but the fluid is way above it.

Offline Leslieann

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Re: Transmission repair [Halp]
« Reply #29 on: Thu, 24 January 2019, 20:20:35 »
/Head scratch, are you guys sure ?  my stick has this range on it,  but the fluid is way above it.
Check your manual.

While there is often a cold measurement, it's recommended to do it hot because it's much more accurate due to convertor drainback.
Engines have a free flowing feedback to the pan, the torque converter drains back slowly and only about half way. While cold you have no idea how much remains in the convertor, it's a guessing game. It used to be you did it while in drive, but that is considered and a hassle since it requires two people, not to mention dangerous. Some professionals still do it this way because it's more precise.

Some manufacturers are pretty loose about it, others are quite precise, for example, Subaru wants you to drive 10-15 minutes, run through all the gears and then check with the engine still running. It can even vary by engine as well. You would be surprised what some even say about the engine oil and power steering fluid.
Filco MJ2 L.E. w/Vortex case, hand milled case, custom feet, custom paint, Klaxxon key caps, lubed and o-ringed Jailhouse Blues made from vintage Cherry MX Blues, HID Liberator, stainless steel universal plate, 3d printed adapters, removable cord, sound dampened. Winkey blockoff plate | Magicforce 68 w/Outemu Blues |KBT Race S L.E. w/Ergo-Clears, custom WASD keyset | Das Pro w/browns (Costar model) | IBM Model M (x2)