A 27" worth buying?

[iLLucionist]

Coming from a Dell U2413, Would like to upgrade to 27" but I cannot find a proper monitor that has no uniformity issues and that has no PWM (causes eyestrain for me). I would also like it to be "accurate enough" out of the box. I know, I should calibrate, but my budget currently does not allow me to do so, I'll keep that in mind for the future. I mainly develop software, digital music creation, writing (proper 2-3 pages up would be nice), data analysis (screen is always too small), and print design.

Any thoughts?

[Coreda]

There are a few to consider. One of the best I've read about is the Korean Crossover 2755AMG. Superb color (one of the most accurate of any, not just Korean), and no PWM. Only real negative is blacks aren't as deep or uniform as some, but that's typical of the H-IPS panels from any manufacturer. As you likely know several of the Korean monitors use the panels from LG, which are used in various Apple displays.

I have a long list I made of pros and cons of a plethora of monitors, can check it later.

[iLLucionist]

There are a few to consider. One of the best I've read about is the Korean Crossover 2755AMG. Superb color (one of the most accurate of any, not just Korean), and no PWM. Only real negative is blacks aren't as deep or uniform as some, but that's typical of the H-IPS panels from any manufacturer. As you likely know several of the Korean monitors use the panels from LG, which are used in various Apple displays.

I have a long list I made of pros and cons of a plethora of monitors, can check it later.

Thanks! Would be nice to see that list I should also mention I think that I would like it to be non-glossy. However, if PDC in real life is like Apple's new iMac 27" screen, that kind of glossiness is OK. But Apple's current Thunderbolt 27" Display is horrible. Thing is, when I code, I'm in the terminal with a black background. So a glossy monitor would be like a mirror

Do you have any experience with PDC-coatings? And it seems more like the question is what panel do you want and what manufacturer puts that in an acceptable housing without PWM..

I also thought about buying a NEC PA 272, but those things are so daaaaamn expensive.

[Coreda]

Very few 27-inchers, maybe two or three I can think of, come in matte versions. Unfortunately one of them is also among the best, but has PWM backlighting - the QNIX QX2710.

As for PDC displays they are less glossy than tempered glass glossy displays, as there is no gap between the glass and the panel. Not sure if my Macbook is PDC, but if you have windows behind your desk then it might be a PITA to have reflections.

With any monitor I've researched there will always be a balance of compromise, as negatives can be found for any of them. Still haven't decided on one myself, but the Crossover I mentioned will probably be it, even though it has a rather bright minimum brightness of 92 cd/m (another thing to consider).

Thanks! Would be nice to see that list

Heh, it's enormous with all the references. I'll have to trim it down. Btw damn login session expired wiping my previous draft of this post 

[Coreda]

For better or worse here's the last version I had of my long, rambling monitors list, stripped of all reference links, most notes, and other 23" displays. 'IPS' is used where I didn't write down the exact sub-type (eg: AH-IPS, S-IPS, etc). You can go slightly mad compiling all of this

All are glossy except where noted (a few of the Eizos I think are matte, though). Also buying Korean monitors from eBay is always a potential risk, sellers like green-sum and AccessoriesWhole are generally recommended (the latter only sells units with potentially 3 dead pixels as opposed to 5, although pixel-perfect versions are available at a higher cost).

It should also be noted that because I was considering the Crossover 2755AMG there are more pros, cons and comparisons.


Panel Types

"- VA panels produce deep blacks in the center of the screen in exchange for a radial drop in contrast towards the edges.

- IPS panels produce the most uniform contrast, but at the cost of weak overall blacks and "glow" [IPS glow, look it up  ] in the corners.

- TN panels produce moderately good blacks in a center rectangle of the screen in exchange for an overall vertical shift in contrast." - Mike63's summary of panel types


27" Monitors

Asus ROG SWIFT PG278Q - 1440p / TN / Matte / 120hz

NEW [haven't checked up on it yet]


QNIX QX2710 (or the identical X-Star DP2710) - 1440p / AH-IPS (?) / Glossy & Matte / Overclockable up to 120hz

Pros: Matte version available, overclockable to 96hz stably, superb stock color gamut and white balance, deeper and more uniform blacks than the Crossover 2755AMG

Cons: over-saturated colors due to extended gamut (is correctable w/ calibration), backlight bleed appears worse than Crossover but is fixable with electrical tape, temporary (2-3 hour) image retention if something on screen is left for too long, uses PWM/SHI @ 160hz, poor case build quality, no scaler so resolutions less than 1440p won't fit-to-width


Crossover 2755AMG - 1440p / AH-IPS (?) / PDC

Pros: most accurate colors of any Korean monitor, slightly less glare than full glossy, crystal-clear image with no crosshatching effect present, less ghosting of frames @ 60hz than similar monitors, I believe it has a scaler so lower resolutions fit-to-width, 100x100 VESA mount compatible

Cons: PDC semi-glossy coating is said to be inferior for blacks than full glossy (although still better than tempered glass), backlight bleeding / IPS glow is common (sometimes severe, due to H-IPS being the thinnest IPS), can't be overclocked to 120hz (regardless of seller's claims, skips frames due to being multi-input), 22ms input lag (actually pretty good), PWM-free, fingerprints show up easily on surface (duh), whites have a mild green tint out of the box, at minimum brightness the color accuracy degrades (like many displays), some report "hum and squeak" (buzzing) across all brightness levels, 90 cdm/m2 minimum brightness


Samsung S27A970D - 1440p / PLS (Samsung's version of IPS) / Matte

Pros: PWM-free, good-quality AG coat (the S27B970D version is glossy)
Cons: expensive ($800), backlight bleeding common although some have had none, relatively high input lag (28ms)


Dell U2713H - 1440p / IPS / Matte

Pros: some report being better than their QNIX QX2710, crosshatching-free AG (matte) screen, good exchange policy, less BLB than QNIX
Cons: poor quality control (varies a lot from unit to unit, although good return policy), image retention, expensive ($800), BLB can be bad


Philips 298P4QJEB - 1440p / AH-IPS / Matte

Pros: ultra-thin bezel, PWM-free, 4x USB 3.0 hub, DisplayPort & HDMI ports, "acceptable" black uniformity at 30% brightness, VESA mount compatible, base can be rotated, no audible hum or noise
Cons: 2650x1080 (21:9 ratio, leading to side black bars on fullscreen 16:9 content), inaccurate color (upon calibration "suitable" for color work), pricey ($700)
?: AG (matte) coating, 10% brightness is 77 cd/m


BenQ BL2710PT - 1440p / IPS / Matte

Pros: great quality IPS reference monitor, no backlight bleed, low input lag (~5-7ms), can be overclocked to 96hz
Cons: expensive (~$1000), color accuracy and contrast not the best (see TFTCentral)


Crossover 2730MD LED - 1440p / Glossy / IPS

Pros: ?
Cons: BLB / IPS glow, non-OC'able (regardless of seller's claims)


Crossover 2720MDP Gold - 1440p / Glossy / IPS

Pros: better input lag times than both QNIX and 2755AMG, better stand, no PWM backlighting (although unsure if the 2730MD does), deeper blacks than 2755AMG due to glossy screen (although Playware's review strongly disagrees), multi-input (still faster than 2755AMG)
Cons: gamma is 1.8 (washed-out colors), lack of 120hz OC, IPS glow can be much worse than 2755AMG on some units


Crossover 27QW - 1440p / IPS / PDC

Pros: similar quality to the 2755AMG, cheaper ($350, from eBay), improved lag due to single input, better blacks than 2755AMG
Cons: worse color presets and gamma than 2755AMG, lacks HDMI, [unconfirmed] no scaler for lower resolutions, lacks OSD
?: uses PDC screen
Notes: available from IPSLEDMonitors.com with 3 year warranty and shipping for $470


Tempest X270OC AG - 1440p / IPS / Matte / 120hz

Pros: 120hz, good BLB policy and warranty
Cons: PWM? [unconfirmed], unclear what exact panel is used, more expensive ($500 minus shipping for the OC version)


Yamasaki DS270 - 1440p / IPS

Pros: uses latest AH-IPS panel
Cons: ?


Asus PB278Q - 1440p / IPS

Pros: 1440p 27"
Cons: PWM backlighting, not as great color reproduction as Crossover 2755AMG, generally more pricey ($600, although I saw one at $460)


Achieva Shimian QH270-Lite - 1440p / IPS

Pros: less BLB than Crossovers (?), proper brightness control (only in the non-multi-input version), better than newer QH2700 version (acc. to NCX), cheap
Cons: ?
Notes: avoid lightnspace and astrobile eBay sellers


Yamasaki Catleap Q270 - 1440p / IPS / See the '2B' model for the OC'able 120hz version

Pros: possibly less backlight bleeding issues
Cons: no idea, older model, pricey ($600 now)


Eizo EV2736W - 1440p / IPS

Pros: PWM-free, better than Asus PB278Q, awesome minimum brightness of 0.6 cd/m2 (:O), high refresh rate (6ms), no IPS glow (if you get lucky)
Cons: expensive ($1000+), one user reported "massive" BLB and 2 exchanges


Viewsonic VP2770-LED - 1440p / IPS

Pros: considered by NCX to be the best 1440p gaming monitor, 7ms delay, USB hub
Cons: pricey ($900), bad IPS glow reported


Eizo CG276 - 1440p / IPS

Pros: pro-grade color monitor, A-TW polarizer to eliminate IPS glow
Cons: expensive
Notes: see also the S2433W for another recommended monitor without IPS glow


Asus PQ279Q - 1440p / IPS

Pros: unsure
Cons: pricey in the $800 range, wide gamut


Achieva Shimian QH270-IPSMS - 1440p / IPS

Cons: lacks proper brightness controls


Other sizes

Dell UP2414Q - 4k / IPS / 24" / Matte

Pros: 4k resolution (3840 x 2160) aka Ultra HD @ 183.58 ppi (60hz), matte
Cons: 24", expensive ($1000), 10-bit wide gamut , inbuilt scaler doesn't work well running at lower resolutions with games


Asus PB287Q - 4k / TN / 28"

Pros: Ultra HD 4k 28" @ 60hz, 1ms delay
Cons: expensive-ish ($800), TN panel


AOC Q2963PM - 1440p / IPS / 29"

Pros: recommended by PCMonitors.info
Cons:  2560x1080
Notes: $550

[blackbox]

Might I add to coredas excellent list the Philips 29" LED 298P4QJEB

http://www.philips.co.uk/c-p/298P4QJEB_00/brilliance-ultrawide-219-29-inch-73-cm-2560-x-1080/overview

A nice matte ah-ips monitor in 21:9.It is 29 so its slightly larger than 27. But it is considerably lower due to the aspect ratio.

[Coreda]

Woah, might want to cut out the large quote, haha. Looks interesting, might look more into it.

[blackbox]

Woah, might want to cut out the large quote, haha. Looks interesting, might look more into it.

Thanks for the suggestion. That was kinda unnecessary. Have two people that I know that has the monitor and they are really pleased with it (although they do not have a need for very uniform backlight or correct colours).

[Coreda]

Just read the Prad.de review (translated) and it's a pretty decent display. The color is quite inaccurate out of the box, but once calibrated is fine (one review mentioned a way to achieve similar results using only the RGB color sliders on the OSD).

Haven't read much else about it, but still added to the list.

[Sniping]

The Qnix is best if you're on a tight budget.

[iLLucionist]

Thanks for all the info! In my personal experience, I really hate Philips IMHO. I never had a monitor that lasted: noises, flickering, backlights failing, tinted, not always magnetically shielded. And I went through quite a lot during the years.

I'm not really on that a tight budget, more in between. I can easily spend 800 on it, but 1200+ on the other hand is over my budget. More thinking about 800-900.

The Korean Crossover sounds good, but I fear the stand and dead pixels if I have to buy it so far away. Uniformity appears to be on par, however black levels are not.

So far I still have the idea that for some reason it is difficult to make 27+ screens? It indeed sounds like there's always compromises to make. Anyway the search goes on..

[sebk]

I briefly had the Dell 27" but it made a really annoying humming/beeping sound. Eventually I sent it back and now I have two 24" Dells which I'm very happy with. Dell seems to have problems getting consistent quality on the 27"s.

[Coreda]

I'm not really on that a tight budget, more in between. I can easily spend 800 on it, but 1200+ on the other hand is over my budget. More thinking about 800-900.

The Korean Crossover sounds good, but I fear the stand and dead pixels if I have to buy it so far away. Uniformity appears to be on par, however black levels are not.

So far I still have the idea that for some reason it is difficult to make 27+ screens? It indeed sounds like there's always compromises to make. Anyway the search goes on..

The majority of users I've read on the mega threads about these Korean monitors experience very few reports of stuck pixels, most are perfect, and of course you can buy a a 'guaranteed' pixel-perfect version for about $450-500 for most models. The main problems reported are usually about backlight uniformity (not such an issue at ~30% brightness), or sometimes a misunderstanding of IPS glow. There is also IPSLEDMonitors.com, mentioned in the list, who offer a 3 year warranty on their Korean monitors.

You'll always hear negative reports about any monitor, even those that cost $1200 (including several in my list). My searches were heavily focused around backlight uniformity, so almost none of the monitors didn't have at least some reports of such, but honestly so long as there are enough positives and a good return policy it should be fine.

Ask on the Displays sub-forum over at HardForum.com if you want some more feedback. They are possibly the best place to ask about a mid-range budget monitor. Also NCX's (English) reviews are worth looking at, google eg: 'crossover 2755amg ncx review', as are =DEAD='s on overclockers.ru, and the Prad.de reviews - all with excellent images, benchmarks, and comparisons.

[iLLucionist]

I'm not really on that a tight budget, more in between. I can easily spend 800 on it, but 1200+ on the other hand is over my budget. More thinking about 800-900.

The Korean Crossover sounds good, but I fear the stand and dead pixels if I have to buy it so far away. Uniformity appears to be on par, however black levels are not.

So far I still have the idea that for some reason it is difficult to make 27+ screens? It indeed sounds like there's always compromises to make. Anyway the search goes on..

The majority of users I've read on the mega threads about these Korean monitors experience very few reports of stuck pixels, most are perfect, and of course you can buy a a 'guaranteed' pixel-perfect version for about $450-500 for most models. The main problems reported are usually about backlight uniformity (not such an issue at ~30% brightness), or sometimes a misunderstanding of IPS glow. There is also IPSLEDMonitors.com, mentioned in the list, who offer a 3 year warranty on their Korean monitors.

You'll always hear negative reports about any monitor, even those that cost $1200 (including several in my list). My searches were heavily focused around backlight uniformity, so almost none of the monitors didn't have at least some reports of such, but honestly so long as there are enough positives and a good return policy it should be fine.

Ask on the Displays sub-forum over at HardForum.com if you want some more feedback. They are possibly the best place to ask about a mid-range budget monitor. Also NCX's (English) reviews are worth looking at, google eg: 'crossover 2755amg ncx review', as are =DEAD='s on overclockers.ru, and the Prad.de reviews - all with excellent images, benchmarks, and comparisons.

Thanks! Seems like you went all the way, respect. I have no issue with dropping cash for something good. Thing is, most 27"-ers seem to be utter crap IMHO. I thought about going all the way and ordering a NEC 272w, but it seems bizarre to me that that has to be necessary to get a proper display. I suspect the PC industry from being too cheap to produce something good, because their main focus is on profit. For example, for what I've read, IPS Glow and/or some backlight bleed can be caused by the manufacturer having chosen to put white, translucent instead of black, solid tape around the panel. My thoughts then are: what, was it too expensive for production to spend like 10 cents more on a display and put proper tape in the display?

Time to check out overclockers and prad. I'm also thinking about just getting another 24" alongside my current one and waiting for a proper 27"-30" to emerge next year when they have sorted out issues (hopefully). What are your thoughts? Are you about to jump the bandwagon and try the Crossover?

[iLLucionist]

I briefly had the Dell 27" but it made a really annoying humming/beeping sound. Eventually I sent it back and now I have two 24" Dells which I'm very happy with. Dell seems to have problems getting consistent quality on the 27"s.

Do you like your new set up? I'm still hesitating between one 27" or going for a two 24" set up as well. How do you position the 24"'s? Do you sit right in the middle or in front of one with the other on the side? Like six years ago I had two 20"-ers next to each other, but those are a lot smaller, so it was easier to see them at the same time.

[Coreda]

Thing is, most 27"-ers seem to be utter crap IMHO. I thought about going all the way and ordering a NEC 272w, but it seems bizarre to me that that has to be necessary to get a proper display.

Utter crap? Doesn't sound like most of the quality reviews I've read of several of the monitors As for the Korean monitors though, the problem is that when buying from eBay sellers it can be difficult if someone ends up with a faulty panel. It's a risk, so some prefer the peace of mind of a better return policy.

For example, for what I've read, IPS Glow and/or some backlight bleed can be caused by the manufacturer having chosen to put white, translucent instead of black, solid tape around the panel. My thoughts then are: what, was it too expensive for production to spend like 10 cents more on a display and put proper tape in the display?

This is backlight bleeding (aka BLB). Most of the electrical tape fixes I've seen have been due to loose/cheap casing as well, exposing light near the corners of the display due to the panel not sealing off the light properly. I haven't read about many quality cases having this specific issue though.

IPS glow is completely different. It is inherent to all IPS panels, and is seen as a soft lighter glow around the edges of the screen when viewed at closer than 3-4 feet away. The wider the display the more apparent it can be, but only really in a dark room and above 30% brightness (some panels have little noticeable effect though). The glow is often confused as BLB with new IPS monitor users, but it's not a fault, although H-IPS panels are affected more being the thinnest type. A-TW polarizers eliminate the effect, although only a handful of displays have ever used one.

VA panels on the other hand do not suffer from IPS glow, and neither do TN panels (the cheapest and most common panel, typically used in most displays we're used to). Go with VA if you want silky rich blacks, or TN if you really don't mind either way.

Time to check out overclockers and prad. I'm also thinking about just getting another 24" alongside my current one and waiting for a proper 27"-30" to emerge next year when they have sorted out issues (hopefully). What are your thoughts? Are you about to jump the bandwagon and try the Crossover?

There are some good 24" monitors, and it's totally worth checking out the reviews I mentioned for some of the panels. Seeing the actual tests and conclusions is very helpful, and helps give sound advice to buyers. As for me the minimum brightness of the Crossover is the only real negative personally, as everything else is just about perfect. Seeing the new suggestion of the Philips and likely others has me waiting a little to see if anything else pops up   

[iLLucionist]

Thing is, most 27"-ers seem to be utter crap IMHO. I thought about going all the way and ordering a NEC 272w, but it seems bizarre to me that that has to be necessary to get a proper display.

Utter crap? Doesn't sound like most of the quality reviews I've read of several of the monitors As for the Korean monitors though, the problem is that when buying from eBay sellers it can be difficult if someone ends up with a faulty panel. It's a risk, so some prefer the peace of mind of a better return policy.

For example, for what I've read, IPS Glow and/or some backlight bleed can be caused by the manufacturer having chosen to put white, translucent instead of black, solid tape around the panel. My thoughts then are: what, was it too expensive for production to spend like 10 cents more on a display and put proper tape in the display?

This is backlight bleeding (aka BLB). Most of the electrical tape fixes I've seen have been due to loose/cheap casing as well, exposing light near the corners of the display due to the panel not sealing off the light properly. I haven't read about many quality cases having this specific issue though.

IPS glow is completely different. It is inherent to all IPS panels, and is seen as a soft lighter glow around the edges of the screen when viewed at closer than 3-4 feet away. The wider the display the more apparent it can be, but only really in a dark room and above 30% brightness (some panels have little noticeable effect though). The glow is often confused as BLB with new IPS monitor users, but it's not a fault, although H-IPS panels are affected more being the thinnest type. A-TW polarizers eliminate the effect, although only a handful of displays have ever used one.

VA panels on the other hand do not suffer from IPS glow, and neither do TN panels (the cheapest and most common panel, typically used in most displays we're used to). Go with VA if you want silky rich blacks, or TN if you really don't mind either way.

Time to check out overclockers and prad. I'm also thinking about just getting another 24" alongside my current one and waiting for a proper 27"-30" to emerge next year when they have sorted out issues (hopefully). What are your thoughts? Are you about to jump the bandwagon and try the Crossover?

There are some good 24" monitors, and it's totally worth checking out the reviews I mentioned for some of the panels. Seeing the actual tests and conclusions is very helpful, and helps give sound advice to buyers. As for me the minimum brightness of the Crossover is the only real negative personally, as everything else is just about perfect. Seeing the new suggestion of the Philips and likely others has me waiting a little to see if anything else pops up   

Thanks for the details. Still doing more research, difficult topic. If I go for 2x24", I basically get 48" for the same price (almost) as one 'good' 27". But I would also need a Matrox-thing (forgot the name) as I only have one DisplayPort connector on my Late 2010 MacBook Pro. Oh the compromises...

[feizor]

Coreda that's a very extensive list you got there, good work.

I briefly had a Qnix QX2710. I overclocked it to 96hz. I'm not an fps junkie so it didn't make too much difference to me. It makes the mouse cursor move more smoothly and high bit rate HD movies played better compared to a 60hz screen.

But placing it side by side with my much older Dell 2407wfp, the colors seemed muted, regardless of the color profile I used. It could be that the Dell is just over saturated but I really prefer the brighter fuller colors over more neutral Qnix. I don't have a calibrator so its purely based on my personal preference.

The size difference between 24" and 27", although evident, is not that substantial. The extra resolution is nice also. But again I don't do any photo editing so I can't really appreciate the increased DPI, just made fonts smaller.

I was very underwhelmed by the qx2710, lucky mine had a defect, there were dead pixels all along the the right edge (200+ pixels) so I returned it for a full refund (I did suffer a small loss in exchange rates during the whole process). Mind you, I got the pixel perfect 'version', so I confirm that pixel perfect models are just normal models with more lenient return policies.

If you need the extra resolution or fps then qx2710 is a good choice, but coming from a dell ultrasharp, it certainly didn't blow my mind.

[Coreda]

I briefly had a Qnix QX2710. But placing it side by side with my much older Dell 2407wfp, the colors seemed muted, regardless of the color profile I used. It could be that the Dell is just over saturated but I really prefer the brighter fuller colors over more neutral Qnix. I don't have a calibrator so its purely based on my personal preference.

Had the suspicion the Dell 2407WFP might be wide gamut based on that description, and turns out it is Edit: correction, turns out that's only the 'HC' version. A wide color gamut covers more of the color range, increasing the saturation in most apps. Many people have the opposite reaction, so it's great you like it 

I've heard occasionally some who've bought so-called pixel perfect versions of the panels have had defects, but it's good to know it's easier to get a return. Thanks for the impressions!

[jacobolus]

Dell UP2414Q - 4k / IPS / 24" / Matte

Pros: 4k resolution (3840 x 2160) aka Ultra HD @ 183.58 ppi (60hz), matte
Cons: 24", expensive ($1000), 10-bit wide gamut , inbuilt scaler doesn't work well running at lower resolutions with games

Why a frowny face at the 10 bit/channel color? That should be more than enough for human vision at a reasonable distance, with that kind of pixel density.

If you’re getting posterization or some similar artifacts, just add some dither and they should almost completely disappear. Even 8 bit/channel color should be basically sufficient once pixels get that small. It’s only a very acute observer who is going to notice any artifacts in a 12–16 bit/channel image reduced to 8 bit/channel using a good dithering algorithm, on a 250 DPI display (or whatever), even considering the relatively wide gamut involved here.

[iLLucionist]

Dell UP2414Q - 4k / IPS / 24" / Matte

Pros: 4k resolution (3840 x 2160) aka Ultra HD @ 183.58 ppi (60hz), matte
Cons: 24", expensive ($1000), 10-bit wide gamut , inbuilt scaler doesn't work well running at lower resolutions with games

Why a frowny face at the 10 bit/channel color? That should be more than enough for human vision at a reasonable distance, with that kind of pixel density.

If you’re getting posterization or some similar artifacts, just add some dither and they should almost completely disappear. Even 8 bit/channel color should be basically sufficient once pixels get that small. It’s only a very acute observer who is going to notice any artifacts in a 12–16 bit/channel image reduced to 8 bit/channel using a good dithering algorithm, on a 250 DPI display (or whatever), even considering the relatively wide gamut involved here.

But, does it HAVE a good dither algorithm? Look at color banding on gradients on some HP's for example. Or am I mistaken? Although I have to hand it to you that the increased pixel density should make it less noticeable.

My screen (Dell Ultrasharp U2413) is wide gamut and I believe that what I see on the screen more closely aligns with what I print. But perhaps I haven't a thorough understanding of how wide gamut would affect print. Aren't human tones and some green tones in nature better to differentiate amongst on wider gamut screens?

[IPT]

i personaly haven't gone all intense in the research, but i have had no issues with my U2711.
Thinking of getting a U3011 lol.

[digi]

Has anyone bought a monitor with g-sync yet? I might be in the market for a new 27" soon and I'm interested in hearing about it..

[Coreda]

Why a frowny face at the 10 bit/channel color? That should be more than enough for human vision at a reasonable distance, with that kind of pixel density.

It's perfect for photo/video editing applications, where the full range is supported, but outside of that typically wide gamut displays produce overly vibrant colors in most desktop apps from everything I've read about them. All the pros and cons are from a personal list only .

[jacobolus]

Why a frowny face at the 10 bit/channel color? That should be more than enough for human vision at a reasonable distance, with that kind of pixel density.

It's perfect for photo/video editing applications, where the full range is supported, but outside of that typically wide gamut displays produce overly vibrant colors in most desktop apps from everything I've read about them. All the pros and cons are from a personal list only .

Oh I see. The part you care about is the wide gamut, not the 10-bit color? Basically, the display is too good for the applications you plan to use?

Okay, that’s fair. It’s definitely true that many applications, especially on Windows (which has historically had piss-poor support for color management, and still doesn’t do much to enforce best practices), don’t do proper color management.

[iLLucionist]

Why a frowny face at the 10 bit/channel color? That should be more than enough for human vision at a reasonable distance, with that kind of pixel density.

It's perfect for photo/video editing applications, where the full range is supported, but outside of that typically wide gamut displays produce overly vibrant colors in most desktop apps from everything I've read about them. All the pros and cons are from a personal list only .

Oh I see. The part you care about is the wide gamut, not the 10-bit color? Basically, the display is too good for the applications you plan to use?

Okay, that’s fair. It’s definitely true that many applications, especially on Windows (which has historically had piss-poor support for color management, and still doesn’t do much to enforce best practices), don’t do proper color management.

Add OS X 10.9 (Mavericks) to that.. I don't know how they managed to screw up legacy code they didn't need to touch, somehow color management on OS X is really bad. Yes, it is there. But it behaves enormously unpredictable. At times, when you have color managed documents (like I do for print press, I typeset and do print media design), opening the same document native in Indesign, Illustrator, Preview or even Quicklook can give different results. And in the end you keep wondering: which app shows it up correctly? People have also notified that their calibrated screens were off colorwise since the upgrade, even people with Eizos and NECs. Luckily I can afford to make many preprints, but it is really annoying.

[jacobolus]

Add OS X 10.9 (Mavericks) to that.. I don't know how they managed to screw up legacy code they didn't need to touch, somehow color management on OS X is really bad. Yes, it is there. But it behaves enormously unpredictable. At times, when you have color managed documents (like I do for print press, I typeset and do print media design), opening the same document native in Indesign, Illustrator, Preview or even Quicklook can give different results. And in the end you keep wondering: which app shows it up correctly? People have also notified that their calibrated screens were off colorwise since the upgrade, even people with Eizos and NECs. Luckily I can afford to make many preprints, but it is really annoying.

What type of documents are we talking about? Indesign and Illustrator don’t use OS X APIs or the Apple color management engine (except for asking the OS which profile the current display is using). Adobe has its own color management tools.

If something looks different in InDesign, Illustrator, and Preview, that’s unrelated to Mac OS, per se (though it’s possible that the OS X PDF stack is having trouble with the profile embedded in the document, etc.). If something looks different between Preview and Quicklook, that’s probably a Quicklook bug. I haven’t used it much for color-sensitive stuff so I don’t really know the details though.

Have you tried this with various versions of PDFs (i.e. ones compatible with, say, Acrobat 5 or 6)? Other kinds of files? I’m sure we could get to the bottom of it if we could figure out which files were affected, and how. This may not be the best forum for it though.

[microsoft windows]

No. AS 27" flat panel is NOT worth buying UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES. You need to get THIS monitor instead--it's a MUCH better deal.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ViewMagic-CD-1038-10-CRT-Color-Monitor-for-POS-/351063009313?pt=Computer_Monitors&hash=item51bcfc6821

[SpAmRaY]

No. AS 27" flat panel is NOT worth buying UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES. You need to get THIS monitor instead--it's a MUCH better deal.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ViewMagic-CD-1038-10-CRT-Color-Monitor-for-POS-/351063009313?pt=Computer_Monitors&hash=item51bcfc6821

FREE SHIPPING, sweet!

[microsoft windows]

THAT'S WHY YOU SHOULD GET IT RIGHT NOW! BEFORE THE AUCTION IS OVER! AND WHILE YOU'RE AT IT, DON'T FORGET TO PICK UP A COPY OF WINDOWS 98.
0
 
This is bunny
 
(\__/) This is Bunny. Copy and paste Bunny into your
 (='.'=) signature to help him gain world domination!
 (")_(")

[Coreda]

I'm trolling, I'm trolling, I'm trolling, ~and no one can stop me~, I'm ....

Stahp.

[iLLucionist]

What just happened there? Too much internet for the day?

Anyways, regardless of spam or not, it got me thinking. A bit offtopic, but the best display I ever had IMHO was my IIyama diamontron 22". Damn those were the days. But enough nostalgia, back to 27" LCDs

[Coreda]

A bit offtopic, but the best display I ever had IMHO was my IIyama diamontron 22". Damn those were the days. But enough nostalgia, back to 27" LCDs

There are people who swear by the Sony FW900 CRT display. Most have a hard time finding one that is good enough to last more than a year though.

[iLLucionist]

A bit offtopic, but the best display I ever had IMHO was my IIyama diamontron 22". Damn those were the days. But enough nostalgia, back to 27" LCDs

There are people who swear by the Sony FW900 CRT display. Most have a hard time finding one that is good enough to last more than a year though.

Hmm.. so there are people still relying on CRTs today? That seems really outdated, but then again if it produces better colors and such, why not. I mean, some people I know think that my mechanical keyboards are outdated, being tech that was from "back in the days when we had DOS and those greenish screens", so who knows.

[Coreda]

Hmm.. so there are people still relying on CRTs today? That seems really outdated, but then again if it produces better colors and such, why not. I mean, some people I know think that my mechanical keyboards are outdated, being tech that was from "back in the days when we had DOS and those greenish screens", so who knows.

I think it's mainly for the lag-free input and black reproduction. Last CRT I had gave me headaches, which may have been due to the Hz, or something else. So for me it's LCD all the way .

[iLLucionist]

So after some waiting, this one pops up and looks reaaaaaallly interesting to me:

BenQ BL3200PT (AVA)

Tftcentral: http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/benq_bl3200pt.htm

It has NO PWM (literally zero, even at 0% brightness), good uniformity (especially given the size of this 32" screen), good black levels (if you adjust it using the OSD-menu), and appropriate color reproduction (if you calibrate, but I think we all should when working with print press). It seems that the only drawback is for gamers, with the input lag / ghosting a bit too high. But for me, as a designer / coder/ researcher, I do not really care.

The best thing IMHO is that it is 2560 x 1440 at 32", meaning almost the same PPI as my 24" Dell U2413, meaning that I can read everything comfortably. I always feel that 2560x1440 is a bit small on a 27"-er.

So after seeing all the comments here, I think I'm gonna give this screen a shot. It's also not too expensive IMHO ($688 on Amazon for a reference), comparing it to Dell's
27" and 30" offerings and of course the aging Cinema Display (where is that Retina one!).

So what are your thoughts on this one? Only thing I am wondering now is: which calibration device to use on a Mac?

[Matt3o]

I have a Viewsonic VP2770 and a HP ZR2740w. The viewsonic is simply fantastic, but the stand is HUGE (really), you have to get yourself a vesa arm, because the factory one takes half your desktop

The HP is very honest IPS monitor. No big + no big - (which is a good thing imho).

They both came with dead pixels, both changed, both returned with dead pixels (different monitor).

[microsoft windows]

No. AS 27" flat panel is NOT worth buying UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES. You need to get THIS monitor instead--it's a MUCH better deal.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ViewMagic-CD-1038-10-CRT-Color-Monitor-for-POS-/351063009313?pt=Computer_Monitors&hash=item51bcfc6821

Unfortuntaly, the listing for this monitor has ended. But don't worry--it's been relisted so it's not gone yet! Better pick it up soon while you still can:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ViewMagic-CD-1038-10-CRT-Color-Monitor-for-POS/351084562162

[kenmai9]

Two 23" is really nice. And a third Television monitor around 32". Its perfect, two for coding/browsing/gaming and one for Media.

[iLLucionist]

Two 23" is really nice. And a third Television monitor around 32". Its perfect, two for coding/browsing/gaming and one for Media.

Yeah, I also have a 24" but I cannot connect it to my Mid 2010 MacBook Pro. Oh well... I'll take it to the office. They still got 19"-ers at my office (yeah, for real) with CCFL, which basically means that at 100% brightness you are looking at what W-LED produces with 0% brightness. And essentially nobody questions the crappiness of those monitors. But hey, they also use stock Dell keyboards and they don't complain about them either.

23" for coding? I want to use the 32" for coding as I use vim + tmux with lots of split panes and buffers simultaneously. Or for data-analysis, with SPSS/R output and syntax next to Word (yeah.. I'm forced to use word at the office).

[tp4tissue]

for coding...  you'd want to buy those nice $150 40"  tvs..  they work just fine as monitors.. and you can sit really far away, reducing eye strain greatly


I actually think people buying the 27" and 24" monitors are stuck in a box from 2005....

SEriously why would you spend $300 on a 27"  when you can spend $150-200 and get a 40"...


Oh, resolution right?.. hahaha because you need 2560x1440 for smoother edges around text? give me a break..

I've been using my 3007wfphc since 2007...   I would NEVER go to a smaller monitor EVER...


resolution hardly matters.. at the right distance.

[jacobolus]

I personally am really looking forward to getting 1–2 4k displays within the next 6 months sometime, aiming for the highest possible pixel density: 3840 x 2160 at 24" should be great, but I’d also love to see slightly higher resolution at a 27" size.

Still waiting to see if other vendors step in, since it’s a new field, but the Dell ones look like they should be pretty sweet:
http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?c=us&l=en&cs=19&sku=860-BBCD

[Matt3o]

considering I always get a couple of dead pixels on standard monitors, on a 4k I should get at least 8? how flawed this technology is?!

[iLLucionist]

considering I always get a couple of dead pixels on standard monitors, on a 4k I should get at least 8? how flawed this technology is?!

Yeah, exactly. That's why I will be ordering with 'pixel warranty' which is only another 50$. Ridiculous it is common having to pay extra to get a monitor that is not broken. But at least it is cheaper than 'throwing away' 800 dollars for a faulty screen.

I once considered a professional NEC-screen. It would cost me 500$ extra to get a screen without defects (some kind of factory guarantee special selected panel thing of some kind). How about no? If I am already paying the premium for a screen and they won't even ensure that it is calibrated good enough out of the box and without dead pixels, how 'professional' is it really?

[bueller]

for coding...  you'd want to buy those nice $150 40"  tvs..  they work just fine as monitors.. and you can sit really far away, reducing eye strain greatly


I actually think people buying the 27" and 24" monitors are stuck in a box from 2005....

SEriously why would you spend $300 on a 27"  when you can spend $150-200 and get a 40"...


Oh, resolution right?.. hahaha because you need 2560x1440 for smoother edges around text? give me a break..

I've been using my 3007wfphc since 2007...   I would NEVER go to a smaller monitor EVER...


resolution hardly matters.. at the right distance.

Honestly sitting that far away from the screen isn't a positive for me if I'm working. I've already got a 55" in the living room with a PC hooked up to it if I want to game, much prefer working from a desk when I'm coding.

[Matt3o]

considering I always get a couple of dead pixels on standard monitors, on a 4k I should get at least 8? how flawed this technology is?!

Yeah, exactly. That's why I will be ordering with 'pixel warranty' which is only another 50$. Ridiculous it is common having to pay extra to get a monitor that is not broken. But at least it is cheaper than 'throwing away' 800 dollars for a faulty screen.

I once considered a professional NEC-screen. It would cost me 500$ extra to get a screen without defects (some kind of factory guarantee special selected panel thing of some kind). How about no? If I am already paying the premium for a screen and they won't even ensure that it is calibrated good enough out of the box and without dead pixels, how 'professional' is it really?

I believe dead pixels are not considered "flaws", but intrinsic to the technology.

[tp4tissue]

for coding...  you'd want to buy those nice $150 40"  tvs..  they work just fine as monitors.. and you can sit really far away, reducing eye strain greatly


I actually think people buying the 27" and 24" monitors are stuck in a box from 2005....

SEriously why would you spend $300 on a 27"  when you can spend $150-200 and get a 40"...


Oh, resolution right?.. hahaha because you need 2560x1440 for smoother edges around text? give me a break..

I've been using my 3007wfphc since 2007...   I would NEVER go to a smaller monitor EVER...


resolution hardly matters.. at the right distance.

Honestly sitting that far away from the screen isn't a positive for me if I'm working. I've already got a 55" in the living room with a PC hooked up to it if I want to game, much prefer working from a desk when I'm coding.

desk /move to living room

OR... move desk back towards your wall in the office, and put the tv further away..

[Prelim]

the HP 27xi is a decent AH-IPS true glossy, which is "apple type" eyecandy and should be a bargain.... the only problem is that's only 1080p

[Matt3o]

that's not the only problem. that's THE problem

[jacobolus]

the HP 27xi is a decent AH-IPS true glossy, which is "apple type" eyecandy and should be a bargain.... the only problem is that's only 1080p

So in other words, it’s only slightly fewer pixels (and therefore substantially worse pixel density) than the 23" display Apple released in 2002? (Or I think Dell & al. had similar ones in 2003–2004.)

Woo stagnant technology!