Reminder, dat Vote thing is Today.

[tp4tissue]

You is gon' do it? Or not?

Won't make a difference, but you probably should, old people love it, must be on to something if they're all dragging their severe-arthritis butts to the polls...

You can't get old people to buy or do anything 99% of the time, so we'd assume it's pretty important.

[fohat.digs]

must be on to something

The younger you are, the more important the future is to you.

If you think that something will be preferable (even incrementally) for your own future, then vote for it. Otherwise, don't complain.

[TomahawkLabs]

I vote, because it is important. Vocal minorities are a real thing.

[tp4tissue]

Not against the written text, but America has not done those things for anyone other than its own ruling class. It doesn't even treat most of its citizens by those ideals.

Not complaining, just want to be realistic. We are imperialists.

Tp4 can live with that, as long as we EAT MORE IMPERIALIST VEGGIES.


Kamala is more likely to eat a Vegetable than Trump. Therefore.......

[fohat.digs]

I will be slightly surprised and extremely disappointed if at least one of the hyper-crazies in the House (eg Greene, Gaetz, Bobert, etc) is not knocked out in this round.

[Findecanor]

If you think that something will be preferable (even incrementally) for your own future, then vote for it. Otherwise, don't complain.

No

Absolutely not.

It is not that simple. It is not just about you. It is about the world.

It is about preserving democracy in your country. It is about keeping international cooperation in security and trade alive. It is about at least keeping some hope alive that we could keep climate change under control.
It is about common decency vs. greed and debauchery.
It is about keeping the world from going under.

This sh*t is real.

[tp4tissue]

It is not that simple. It is not just about you. It is about the world.

It is about preserving democracy in your country. It is about keeping international cooperation in security and trade alive. It is about at least keeping some hope alive that we could keep climate change under control.
It is about common decency vs. greed and debauchery.
It is about keeping the world from going under.

This sh*t is real.

Democracy isn't real, what we have is just imperialism.

The modern CONCEPT of democracy, is like Diabetics voting for which chocolate company runs the government. Hershey Milkbar or Nestle Crunch.  They're both 50% calories from fat, neither is incentivized to reduce oil.  They want you to be phat and sick, then sell you insulin/ heart surgery, and irradiate you with Chemotherapy after their additives give you or your children cancer..

Every single country. Humans do not operate in any other way.

I very much hope we evolve past this, though it doesn't look it.

We agree Harris is probably a better person and more likely to eat vegetables, but she will change NOTHING about our capitalist-status-quo.

The system is this way, because the REAL vote is already cast in $Dollars and $Cents.

We all bought Tvs, Cars, Chocolate, Coffee, Alcohol, pr0n, murder simulators (video games), Drugs.   

By doing so, we've sealed our fate.  It's not just consumption, WHAT we're consuming matters.



Please eat more veggies..! /The real democracy.

[tp4tissue]

Hittn' refresh, Gettn' no sleep tonight..

[yuppie]

Hittn' refresh, Gettn' no sleep tonight..

(Attachment Link)

refresh

[tp4tissue]

It seems like it'd be trivial for a state to cheat.

Think we know the real reason people keep moving to Texas/Florida.  They're just sending poor people from the crappy states in there to make sure they don't flip.

[noisyturtle]

This is depressing

[tp4tissue]

Guys, it's ok.  "I told you so's " are bitter sweet. Tp4 is no happier about it.

This is the lesser desirable outcome in terms of veggies, but at least it proves democracy Does-Not work.


They absolutely cheated the election using social media AI tools. It's clear at this point that this stuff is a nightmare. Also as predicted by the Tp4.


The upper echelons of society continuously berated the lower income classes throughout this whole process. This is the outcome, Less educated people vote for Trump, there are more of them, these are facts.  Haughty educated/Wealthier people branding themselves as superior is what set this in motion.

The Rich has no empathy,

The Poor can't afford empathy.

This is where we are as a society. No empathy.

Forget politics for the moment,  If you don't start eating 100% Veggie, then it is TRULY OVER.


If anyone feels like they just needs a hug.   Tp4 is available 24/7, just PM the Tp4.


Fingers crossed, they demand a recount somewhere. FBI/CIA steps in on the cheating.

[tp4tissue]

Upcoming issues, Besides veggies, that are important.


America's Ukraine War.  (Generally positive) Capitulating to Putin has the benefit of not getting everyone drafted in the next few years.   We already lost it anyways.  This is the 1 thing Trump does right on, america should not have started the Ukraine war.

Wealth Gap, this was always going to grow, but it will grow much faster now. Please hit the books hard, Mathematics and Computer programming, These are the jobs that most people can't or won't do.. Wages side of things will probably get very rough.   But keep in mind, if you absolutely HATE those subjects, sitting in front of a computer, go to trade school for Welding/Electrician/Machining/Auto-mechanic.

Doctor/Lawyer/Biotech, not recommended, this stuff is a waste of your life regardless of how much it might pay in the short term. The medical industry is sick care, not health care. Lawyers spend more time arguing than solving problems. Biotech merely feeds back into people's worst health choices, Get phat, get sick, pay for surgery+medicine. Your life is your life, you can't buy that with any amount of money, why waste it cleaning up after people's stupid decisions.

Inflation is, sigh...

Getting Drafted in the near term is unlikely under Trump. But you always want to have a plan. If it happens, do your best to go anywhere else, outside of the American umbrella, like New Zealand. Play dead, play dumb. Don't involve yourself in a senseless meat grinder.

There is absolutely NO Point in dying for any reason. The military does not protect anything other than capitalism, don't do that. It's not worth your life.

Stay AWAY from marijuana.  This is highly problematic, the heavy investments GOP and DEMO tell you everything you need to know, it is designed to Heavy-Gate, Income barrier the lower class, dooming them forever in servitude. Lifetime education and earnings of marijuana users, On-Average, is severely degraded. If you use drugs and alcohol, social mobility becomes untenable.

We are likely to have another major pandemic soon. BE prepared.  Buy the antiviral prescriptions from the grey market teledoc sites EARLY,  Don't wait.  Refresh every year.

Always wear masks in a crowd,  Vaccinate if you are in a high contact industry.


Finally, Veggies is still 110% the most important democratic/economic decision a human can make.

[tp4tissue]

Don't believe it when Tp4 says it, OK, 

Here's an old white guy saying it.

Kamala, would've been among the-most-ineffectual presidents ever, Trump unfortunately IS simply the worst president ever..

[fohat.digs]

But so many of them don't understand what change it is that they want.

[tp4tissue]

Both the Democrats / Republicans are talking about INCONSEQUENTIAL issues, as a distraction from the Primary under-current of what they're BOTH doing, KLEPTOCRACY.

It doesn't even matter at this point that this is the reality of Imperialist America,   What matters is that we have a PLANET to Live-in AT ALL.

CLIMATE CHANGE is the only thing that matters, and yet, democrat are identical the republicans in maintaining the status quo capitalism, increase fossil fuel use, increase military expenditure.

Every other talking point is small-potatoes, relative to the BILLIONS of lives at risk due to climate change.

[fohat.digs]

"Donald Trump’s existential threat to US and global democracy raises the question of what the Democratic party was prepared to invest to avoid such an outcome. Judging by Kamala Harris’s campaign, the answer, it seems, was not very much. No Medicare for All, no Green New Deal, no mass provision of social housing (or just advocating rent caps). Not much, then, to win over the crucial segment of low-wage America that supports Trump.

Since Joe Biden’s victory in 2020, progressive voices have warned that to beat Trump next time, the Democratic party needed to drain the swamp of poverty and inequality that amplifies Trump’s faux populism. Instead, they repeatedly placed their hopes in legalist measures to put him out of the race, thereby “proving” to Trump’s base that they had more in common with elites than with the masses. The Democratic party has squandered this opportunity, and the poor and downtrodden will pay the price.

- Prof Benjamin Selwyn 2024-11-06

[tp4tissue]

Fohat,  when you say, TRUMP is an existential threat.  So is Harris.

They're both far right parties. I know you have rosy memories of what the Democratic party meant from your Youth, but that is NOT the democratic party today.

Both parties are identical, people farming, land-baron, Kleptocratic Imperialists.


Bernie 2028.. He Must Live.

[TomahawkLabs]

Even if Harris is not the savior of our planet, there are objective things that the Republicans want that will directly harm the planet and the people who inhabit it. You don't need to be a perfect solution, you just need to move the needle in the right direction. I believe the Democratic platform would do less harm, and that is the name of the game.

[tp4tissue]

I agree moving the needle would be good, but the Democrats have not done that. If anything they're just as bad as the republicans, I would say maybe even a little worse on starting the war with Russia..

All the "promise" of taking climate change seriously is bull****, they did not implement ANY effectual policies.

Fossil fuels went up, War went up.

[TomahawkLabs]

I would also agree the Dems didn't put forth any legislation or regulations that were felt/seen by the average person in a way they would see it as "moving the needle", but as someone who pays attentions just the smallest bit unless a party has control over all 3 branches nothing of substance will be done. Every attempt at bi-partisanship was met with "if we pass this, it makes <insert other side> look good and we can't have that".

We have two parties with different ways of solving issues (or ignoring them) and any amount of teamwork is met with, no, **** them.

[tp4tissue]

We have two parties with different ways of solving issues (or ignoring them) and any amount of teamwork is met with, no, **** them.

We have two right wing parties that have the exact same way of solving problems, aka not solving them, they only differ on how to split the tax revenue among their cronies, ala Kleptocracy.

This is the nature of every large human government.

This is not what upsets Tp4, Republicans+Democrats stealing from the people, so be it,   the PLANET is still important, rich or poor, right or wrong, we still have to live on EARTH.

The system is so corrupt at this point, they are so far up their own ...  that these mot**  won't even have a planet to spend all that stolen money on.

[yuppie]

We have two parties with different ways of solving issues (or ignoring them) and any amount of teamwork is met with, no, **** them.

We have two right wing parties that have the exact same way of solving problems, aka not solving them, they only differ on how to split the tax revenue among their cronies, ala Kleptocracy.

This is the nature of every large human government.

This is not what upsets Tp4, Republicans+Democrats stealing from the people, so be it,   PLANET is still important, everyone still has to live on EARTH.

Until we can grow veggies in space.

[tp4tissue]

Until we can grow veggies in space.

The problem is that until we have a materials breakthrough to construct a space elevator,  orbital transport is too expensive for space veggies.

[Leslieann]

If anything they're just as bad as the republicans

You have the luxury of saying that because you are not in their crosshairs, or at least you don't think you are.

[tp4tissue]

If anything they're just as bad as the republicans

You have the luxury of saying that because you are not in their crosshairs, or at least you don't think you are.

Tp4 fully agrees that there are going to be good people, possibly Tp4 himself, getting jesus-christ-ed, or vanilla racist lynch mobbed.

But Tp4 is merely speaking about Macro.  The net damage that their racism, religious zealotry /bigotry, kleptocracy will be at most death in the 10s of thousands.  Even if all women died of illegal backyard abortion, that would only be 1 million deaths a year (highly unlikely).

Climate change is 3 orders of magnitude larger a problem as that.

People are not grasping the concept of EXISTENTIAL-Threat relative to their daily struggles.

[Leslieann]

But Tp4 is merely speaking about Macro.  The net damage that their racism, religious zealotry /bigotry, kleptocracy will be at most death in the 10s of thousands.  Even if all women died of illegal backyard abortion, that would only be 1 million deaths a year (highly unlikely).

Have you seen Trump/Elon's economic plan?
Just wait till your food bill is enormous, they crash the economy, inflation skyrockets, and then they take away your Social Security.

We're being driven back to the 1800's in almost every way.
You won't care about the climate because you'll be too busy trying to keep food on the table.

[tp4tissue]

Have you seen Trump/Elon's economic plan?
Just wait till your food bill is enormous, they crash the economy, inflation skyrockets, and then they take away your Social Security.

We're being driven back to the 1800's in almost every way.
You won't care about the climate because you'll be too busy trying to keep food on the table.

Not saying that's impossible, but quite improbable, the Federal reserve is not something you can muscle against even if somehow they suddenly acquired legal power to do so.

[noisyturtle]

Between 2019 and 2024 my weekly grocery bill went from $90 to $150 buying basically the exact same products in the exact same amounts.

So what is the ****ing goal here? Create a generation of homeless people? Starve out the poor so there is no more working force to serve you? I don't understand the long term.

[tp4tissue]

We're all in a burning house, 30 seconds away from unconsciousness via smoke inhalation,  unfortunately, there is not-yet agreement that the house is even on fire.

Tp4 suspects, we're already unconscious, and this is the end.

[chyros]

Not much, then, to win over the crucial segment of low-wage America that supports Trump.

But honestly isn't it all just racism? Doesn't it all come down simply to that? I know I'm viewing it from very far away but that's just what it looks like to me.

They said the same thing about Brexit, that that was about economics and stuff, but the truth is the Brits knew damn well they were gonna get set back economically. They just didn't care, because racism was more important.

[fohat.digs]

to win over the crucial segment of low-wage America that supports Trump.

But honestly isn't it all just racism?

I think that Selwyn's point was to say that the Democratic Party has failed to convince low-wage Americans that their party is the champion of the working class, while the Republican Party managed to "win them over" by disingenuously pretending to "feel their pain" and express false anger on their behalf.

TP4 will undoubtedly pop up to turdpost and say that the parties are the same, but they are not.

     -   -   -   -   -   -   -

edit - I also came across this commentary that might help understand this fiasco

"This is the part that everyone missed, myself included, and it was in plain sight.  Sure, we got that it was why he was so appealing to racially anxious whites, particularly white men.  We didn’t see how that could extend to non-white men and even women.

But “we” are educated, informed, and not full of insecurities the way Trump’s audience is.  We are reality-based while MAGA is all about the denial of reality.  Part of that is a reflection of Trump’s malignant narcissism, and that he is a con man who is sliding into dementia.

The other thing is that because “we” are reality-based and a coalition of many out-groups, we can only deal with actual reality.  We can only play by the existing rules.  There is no avenue where we can break them or pretend that they don’t exist.

This is why Trump did not lose support as he was impeached, then charged, then found guilty.  What was a clear liability in reality is an asset when you’re playing a game where when you win you show the rules don’t apply to you.

MAGA, via Trump, is offering their supporters the chance to vicariously experience not just victory through Trump but what they want most of all: domination.

The double standard IS the point.  The domination is the drug that keeps MAGA enthralled."
- B. Lions 2024-11-08

[tp4tissue]

Even now, fohat, a right wing conservative himself, having witnessed 70 years of american history, still refuses to believe in reality.

Not only are the 2 parties IDENTICAL in almost every respect, they each try to out-do each other on environmental destruction every single election.

Fohat, you accuse the republican party of destroying the climate, AND yet, when pointed out to you, that the democratic party is an equal accelerant of net-carbon emissions, you casually ignore this fact, just as the average republican ignores how zenophobic/racist they are.

[Findecanor]

You know, the world did not think much of "Americans" before this. There common stereotype is that they are loud, stupid, ignorant, violent, selfish, self-centred and misogynistic.
By voting for Trump, they have in effect proven to the world that the stereotypes were true.

I'm lamenting the state of the world.

[tp4tissue]

"Americans"

common stereotype is that they are loud, stupid, ignorant, violent, selfish, self-centred and misogynistic.

they have in effect proven to the world that the stereotypes were true.

It's not just Americans, the whole world is ALL of those things.

Hypocrisy is what fuels conflict, the REFUSAL to self-evaluate.


We defer to What-about-ism,  as a weapon to attack others,  When in reality,  it's far more useful to RECOGNIZE that we're all selfish asses, and that EVERYONE is ****, and needs to change/do better.


Except, Germany, Germany gets it,  yea they still have alot of nazis,  but in general, They get it.

[fohat.digs]

Here is the Supreme Court decision that upheld "the Fairness Doctrine":

Question

Do the FCC's fairness doctrine regulations, concerning personal attacks made in the context of public issue debates and political editorializing, violate the First Amendment's freedom of speech guarantees?

June 9, 1969
Unanimous decision for Respondent.
Majority opinion by Byron R. White - The fairness doctrine does not violate the First Amendment.
     
In a unanimous decision, the Court held that the fairness doctrine was consistent with the First Amendment.
Writing for the Court, Justice White argued that it was "idle to posit an unabridgeable First Amendment right to broadcast comparable to the right of every individual to speak, write, or publish."
The Court held that the FCC's fairness doctrine regulations enhanced rather than infringed the freedoms of speech protected under the First Amendment.
With respect to the regulation of personal attacks made in the context of public issue debates, the FCC's requirement that the subject of the attack be provided with a tape, transcript, or broadcast summary, as well as an opportunity to respond without having to prove an inability to pay for the "air-time," insured a balanced and open discussion of contested issues.
The requirement that political editorializing be presented for and against both sides of the debated issues also contributed to the balanced discussion of public concerns.

    -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -

President Reagan and his FCC felt that the Fairness Doctrine should be abandoned, because it believed that "the doctrine chilled the speech of broadcasters and inhibited free and open debate on the public airwaves."

When Democrats pushed to enshrine the Fairness Doctrine into law with the "Fairness in Broadcasting Act of 1987", Reagan vetoed the bill.

[fohat.digs]

At least it is looking like "Whale Head" Kennedy will not be leading the Department of Health and Human Services after all.
Small victory - I got an RVS vaccination today to celebrate.

[noisyturtle]

So Elon is just a full-on Wormtongue at this point?
So it's cool with everyone that a non-citizen big business billionaire with private goals in mind is pouring ideas into the ears of the man who runs the country, and sitting in on meetings with World leaders? That's all good? Just wanted to check, cause I was feeling crazy for a second there.

[chyros]

to win over the crucial segment of low-wage America that supports Trump.

But honestly isn't it all just racism?

I think that Selwyn's point was to say that the Democratic Party has failed to convince low-wage Americans that their party is the champion of the working class, while the Republican Party managed to "win them over" by disingenuously pretending to "feel their pain" and express false anger on their behalf.

TP4 will undoubtedly pop up to turdpost and say that the parties are the same, but they are not.

     -   -   -   -   -   -   -

edit - I also came across this commentary that might help understand this fiasco

"This is the part that everyone missed, myself included, and it was in plain sight.  Sure, we got that it was why he was so appealing to racially anxious whites, particularly white men.  We didn’t see how that could extend to non-white men and even women.

But “we” are educated, informed, and not full of insecurities the way Trump’s audience is.  We are reality-based while MAGA is all about the denial of reality.  Part of that is a reflection of Trump’s malignant narcissism, and that he is a con man who is sliding into dementia.

The other thing is that because “we” are reality-based and a coalition of many out-groups, we can only deal with actual reality.  We can only play by the existing rules.  There is no avenue where we can break them or pretend that they don’t exist.

This is why Trump did not lose support as he was impeached, then charged, then found guilty.  What was a clear liability in reality is an asset when you’re playing a game where when you win you show the rules don’t apply to you.

MAGA, via Trump, is offering their supporters the chance to vicariously experience not just victory through Trump but what they want most of all: domination.

The double standard IS the point.  The domination is the drug that keeps MAGA enthralled."
- B. Lions 2024-11-08

I'm not sure how this disputes in any way that this is all just a 100% racism thing though.

But to add to your parallel, the thing that both the UK Labour and Conservative Party completely missed was that racism was really the only chip on the table, no other arguments actually mattered to anyone in the end. The Conservatives started the Brexit vote to prevent their own party from splitting up under internal strife, and thought they could win over the voters with a massive information campaign (TV, door-to-door information pamphlets, etc.) where they outlined in great detail what a huge detriment leaving the EU would be to everyone in Britain. They were confident that, faced with obvious economic ruin and other logical arguments and sane person would listen to, the British public would vote to remain, as they were supposed to. Labour and Lib Dems barely bothered to address the issue at all, again confident no-one would be stupid enough to vote Leave. Every single one of them overlooked that racism was the only argument that ever mattered to anyone, nobody gave even a quarter of a **** about economics or any of the other stuff. 

Our own Labour Party has recently merged with the Green Party because of the exact same reason. Poor people no longer care about unions, benefits, worker's rights, etc. All they care about is racism. So our Labour Party went from being one of the biggest parties to completely irrelevant. My family is in construction so virtually everyone that works for them votes for the racist party now. Our racist party won the last election with a pretty sizeable lead, and what's worse, if there were re-elections soon, the lead would probably be massively bigger. Racism is the ONLY political agenda, it doesn't matter how good your arguments in other fields are.

And how can they not think that? Both mainstream and social media is so unbelievably full of stuff, real or fake, that adds fuel to the fire. People are sick of the perceived problem of immigrants and will do anything and elect anyone to try and fix it. I'm on Twitter (mainly for YT-related purposes) abd the amount of stuff that's on there nowadays is just incredible. That 80% of it comes with a warning indicating that it's fake news doesn't even matter, people don't care. They just want change, ANY change, away from the former liberal and open-minded agenda.

To a lot of people, it IS a reality, as well. Our cleaning lady votes racist because she lives in a terrible neighbourhood, with much higher crime rate than where we live. If I lived there I'm not sure what I'd be voting. And almost all bad neighbourhoods have higher rates of immigrants in them. That these populations were excluded, not given proper support, not integrated properly, paid lower wages etc. and that that's what's causing the neighbourhoods to be bad rather than the colour of their skin making them evil is an easy-to-miss nuance if you live in a ghetto.

There is a religious component to this discussion as well but I'll leave that aside for the moment. My stance on that is a little bit different.

[noisyturtle]

Religion and racism go hand in hand, as most religions promote subtext of xenophobic and nationalist ideals.

[fohat.digs]

the chance to vicariously experience not just victory through Trump but what they want most of all: domination.

faced with obvious economic ruin and other logical arguments and sane person would listen to

Multiple concepts intertwined.

Drumpf and most of his minions are raging racists, to be sure. But he also, importantly, received a significantly larger measure of votes from blacks, Latinos, and other "others" across the board than ever before.

The message we are hearing more and more here in the US is that this is looking like more of an economic and intellectual divide than a racial one.
The rational reaction to epic problems is to ask: "What can we do to make this situation better?" and that was the focus of the Democratic message. Complex systems cannot be reduced to simple solutions, and proposals were on the table, but the emotion that we projected was calm but serious.

But that was not "satisfying" to profoundly frightened and angry people, and they gravitated toward a candidate who was seething with anger and expressed it with threats, boasts, fantasies, and curses. They felt some sort of kinship with him, even though his life is the absolute opposite of theirs in every conceivable way (not to mention that he holds them in utter contempt). The vast majority of Republican voters interviewed in the media stated that their greatest fears were financial, primarily prices and inflation.
 
Yet there is near-universal consensus that Republican plans will balloon the debt and drive prices and inflation much higher, yet the majority of "low information" voters fail to recognize the Democratic successes of the last 4 years and imagine that the Republican plans will somehow improve their lives.

And, perhaps like Brexit, they cannot imagine how an isolated US would not make them more secure.