Author Topic: Antivax ?  (Read 17889 times)

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Offline chyros

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Re: Antivax ?
« Reply #1 on: Wed, 21 July 2021, 08:42:05 »
Wait, how does that work, that doesn't make much sense to me Oo .
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Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Antivax ?
« Reply #2 on: Wed, 21 July 2021, 09:18:13 »
There are a small number of vaccinated people who do still get infected, but their symptoms are almost always mild and very rarely do they end up in hospital (or worse).
« Last Edit: Wed, 21 July 2021, 13:13:29 by fohat.digs »
Over the past few decades there has been a redistribution of dignity — upward. The Republicans valorized entrepreneurs, CEOs and Wall Street. The Democratic Party became dominated by people in the creative class, who attended competitive colleges, moved to affluent metro areas, married each other and ladled advantages onto their kids so they could leap even farther ahead. There was a bipartisan embrace of a culture of individualism, which opens up a lot of space for people with resources and social support but means loneliness and abandonment for people without. Four years of college became the definition of the good life, which left roughly two-thirds of the country out. And so came the crisis that Biden was elected to address — the poisonous combination of elite insularity and vicious populist resentment. A group of people so enraged by a lack of respect that they are willing to risk death by Covid if they get to stick a middle finger in the air against those who they think look down on them. They are willing to torch our institutions because they are so resentful against the people who run them. The Democratic spending bills are economic packages that serve moral and cultural purposes. They should be measured by their cultural impact, not merely by some wonky analysis. In real, tangible ways, they would redistribute dignity back downward. They would support hundreds of thousands of jobs for home health care workers, child care workers, construction workers, metal workers, supply chain workers. They would ease the indignity millions of parents face having to raise their children in poverty.  – David Brooks NYT 2021

Offline yui

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Re: Antivax ?
« Reply #3 on: Wed, 21 July 2021, 14:59:57 »
TP if those numbers were not purposefully misleading covid19 would be a miracle, killing off 99% of stupids would be great for the future of the human race, but i feel that those numbers, as tipycal with indicators, were carefully massaged, and incorrectly labeled. (i made indicators at my work and they ended up not using them because they could not massage the data... so yeah i do not trust random indicators).
Lying either way is bad, even for the right reasons, you will give ammo to the opposition by lying...
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Online pixelpusher

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Re: Antivax ?
« Reply #4 on: Wed, 21 July 2021, 16:25:18 »
I'm vaccinated and I think everyone should be vaccinated. However, aren't those numbers including all cases from before a vaccine was available?  Doesn't seem like good data representation if so.

EDIT-

Oh i see.  Since Jan 1 of this year.  What date was the vaccine available?  Don't remember.

EDIT AGAIN --

Looks like the first doses of vaccine landed in VA around mid Dec 2020.  7 months with only 18 breaktrhough deaths for 4.2million shots.  Holy smokes, those are pretty good numbers.  Hard to overlook that.  But what would the anti-vaxers say?  I'm sure something about sterile, baby-eating lizard people and space lasers.
« Last Edit: Wed, 21 July 2021, 16:57:44 by pixelpusher »

Offline cest73

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Re: Antivax ?
« Reply #5 on: Wed, 21 July 2021, 17:38:27 »
Sadly it's not a vaccine it's a gene therapy

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Antivax ?
« Reply #6 on: Wed, 21 July 2021, 17:46:36 »
Sadly it's not a vaccine it's a gene therapy

Gene therapy is not a protected term, so it can refer to alot of things/ medical procedures.

What is the beef with gene therapy, is it not still good ? it's got therapy in the name does it not ?

Your DNA changes all the time as it responds to environmental stimuli even if nothing was injected. Just from the food a person eats, it changes gene expression.

Online pixelpusher

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Re: Antivax ?
« Reply #7 on: Wed, 21 July 2021, 18:59:44 »
Sadly it's not a vaccine it's a gene therapy

Ha. Do enlighten why that's a sad thing.  Sadly, i got a bag full of gold instead of a bag full of peanuts?  Is it like that?
« Last Edit: Wed, 21 July 2021, 19:05:42 by pixelpusher »

Offline cest73

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Re: Antivax ?
« Reply #8 on: Thu, 22 July 2021, 03:33:58 »
Sadly it's not a vaccine it's a gene therapy

Ha. Do enlighten why that's a sad thing.  Sadly, i got a bag full of gold instead of a bag full of peanuts?  Is it like that?

It is not a bag of something, it is more like you paid for a bus ride ("get vaccine") but you took part in a massive car accident ("gene therapy")

Sadly it's not a vaccine it's a gene therapy

Gene therapy is not a protected term, so it can refer to alot of things/ medical procedures.

What is the beef with gene therapy, is it not still good ? it's got therapy in the name does it not ?

Your DNA changes all the time as it responds to environmental stimuli even if nothing was injected. Just from the food a person eats, it changes gene expression.

If my DNA (or RNA for that matter) changes by food and environment already, it does so by inputs that are consistent with at least several generations now even be it across the globe - food is surprisingly uniform chemistry and DNA - or you are on the quick way to ER or cemetery, depending on the particular case.

With synthesized industrial whatever - well, what can i say, it's not something your gran'pa ate and lived to procreate your father, we are yet to see how this all pans out in the long term, once smoking too was prescribed to pregnant woman by the very doctors of that time and DDT was advertised as safe as taking a shower, along asbestos, lead and FCKW (OG spray propellant gas)...

All i say is something is not good just because it is shiny and new, it has to be proven by time too.
« Last Edit: Thu, 22 July 2021, 03:35:29 by cest73 »

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Antivax ?
« Reply #9 on: Thu, 22 July 2021, 05:50:02 »
Of the 8,787 people who have died in Texas due to COVID-19 since early February

99.5% of people who died due to COVID-19 in Texas from Feb. 8 to July 14 were unvaccinated, while 0.5% were the result of “breakthrough infections,” which DSHS defines as people who contracted the virus two weeks after being fully vaccinated.

Thanks Gene Therapy. Some prefer death, owning the libs

Offline Leslieann

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Re: Antivax ?
« Reply #10 on: Thu, 22 July 2021, 22:24:27 »
If my DNA (or RNA for that matter) changes by food and environment already, it does so by inputs that are consistent with at least several generations now even be it across the globe - food is surprisingly uniform chemistry and DNA - or you are on the quick way to ER or cemetery, depending on the particular case.

With synthesized industrial whatever - well, what can i say, it's not something your gran'pa ate and lived to procreate your father, we are yet to see how this all pans out in the long term, once smoking too was prescribed to pregnant woman by the very doctors of that time and DDT was advertised as safe as taking a shower, along asbestos, lead and FCKW (OG spray propellant gas)...

All i say is something is not good just because it is shiny and new, it has to be proven by time too.

Yes, those chemicals were bad, yes, the companies all said they were safe,  our gov. (like many) doesn't pre-test industrial chemicals like it does drugs, it's reactive, not pro-active, it relies on the companies to tell it whether something is is safe and well, they lie.

Food and drugs however are are pro-active but that is relatively new. Doctors did used to prescribe that, the key word is used to, regulations have changed since then and today it's difficult to get a doctor to recommend an off-label use and when they do, they usually make darn sure they know what they're getting into before hand.
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Offline yui

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Re: Antivax ?
« Reply #11 on: Fri, 23 July 2021, 00:51:14 »
Sadly it's not a vaccine it's a gene therapy

Gene therapy is not a protected term, so it can refer to alot of things/ medical procedures.

What is the beef with gene therapy, is it not still good ? it's got therapy in the name does it not ?

Your DNA changes all the time as it responds to environmental stimuli even if nothing was injected. Just from the food a person eats, it changes gene expression.

i am not a biologist, but from the extensive reading and sci-show watching i did, i think you are both either very very wrong or partially wrong
it is not proper gene therapy, it does not have any long lasting DNA modification, just hijacking cells the produce fake viruses like a normal virus would do (well a normal one would not produce fakes).
and for TP, no your DNA does not change with what you eat, well not in a controlled manner, it get damaged by oxygen and random radiations as time goes on, (and it is a rather good thing that DNA does not change with the food you eat, imagine you hate and asparagus and grew 30cm and became blonde, well more likely eat something and get instant cancer), external stimuli can change some response over long times but not nearly as much as your response seem to imply, and only responses to the DNA changes not the DNA itself.
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Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Antivax ?
« Reply #12 on: Fri, 23 July 2021, 05:06:46 »
external stimuli can change some response over long times but not nearly as much as your response seem to imply, and only responses to the DNA changes not the DNA itself.

Incorrect, dna can be upregulated/downregulated. The LARGEST external chemical exposure any animal engages in is food intake, both in volume and contact area.

Even behavior such as paternal stress response can be tracked and correlated through offspring born in different time periods, clear indication of dna impact.

It wouldn't make ANY SENSE for dna to be non-modifiable by the body. We share the same genetic root as plants, humans are 70% in common with a tree.

Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Antivax ?
« Reply #13 on: Fri, 23 July 2021, 07:46:46 »

it's difficult to get a doctor to recommend an off-label use


Regulations are frighteningly lame. Fear of lawsuits is what actually holds them back, one of the rare instances where "the markets" are more influential than "regulations" in a positive way.
Over the past few decades there has been a redistribution of dignity — upward. The Republicans valorized entrepreneurs, CEOs and Wall Street. The Democratic Party became dominated by people in the creative class, who attended competitive colleges, moved to affluent metro areas, married each other and ladled advantages onto their kids so they could leap even farther ahead. There was a bipartisan embrace of a culture of individualism, which opens up a lot of space for people with resources and social support but means loneliness and abandonment for people without. Four years of college became the definition of the good life, which left roughly two-thirds of the country out. And so came the crisis that Biden was elected to address — the poisonous combination of elite insularity and vicious populist resentment. A group of people so enraged by a lack of respect that they are willing to risk death by Covid if they get to stick a middle finger in the air against those who they think look down on them. They are willing to torch our institutions because they are so resentful against the people who run them. The Democratic spending bills are economic packages that serve moral and cultural purposes. They should be measured by their cultural impact, not merely by some wonky analysis. In real, tangible ways, they would redistribute dignity back downward. They would support hundreds of thousands of jobs for home health care workers, child care workers, construction workers, metal workers, supply chain workers. They would ease the indignity millions of parents face having to raise their children in poverty.  – David Brooks NYT 2021

Offline yui

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Re: Antivax ?
« Reply #14 on: Fri, 23 July 2021, 18:37:19 »
external stimuli can change some response over long times but not nearly as much as your response seem to imply, and only responses to the DNA changes not the DNA itself.

Incorrect, dna can be upregulated/downregulated. The LARGEST external chemical exposure any animal engages in is food intake, both in volume and contact area.
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so you are just saying incorrect and talk about regulation, and then go back to food, although most chemicals that you eat do never reach your bloodstream at least not unmodified, and of that small part only very few interact with any DNA chemistry, and then only very few in a negative manner, and if they do it is randomly. although lack of some chemicals, like, by example, by excluding a whole half of what humans evolved eating, can lead to issues too.

Even behavior such as paternal stress response can be tracked and correlated through offspring born in different time periods, clear indication of dna impact.

so stress is one of the things we are pretty sure does affect how cells interpret the DNA, although last i checked it was still not fully proven and still debated... correlation != causation (for peoples not used to C-like languages != means not equal)

It wouldn't make ANY SENSE for dna to be non-modifiable by the body. We share the same genetic root as plants, humans are 70% in common with a tree.

well yes it would, plants and humans have a hell of a lot in common, both multicellular organisms moving chemicals to produce, store and use energy to stay alive, both use different means to achieve this but we have a huge base in common. and i still do not understand why that would make DNA modifiable. DNA is partially ignored under the right circumstances, it happens pretty much all of the time, your brain cells ignores the muscle cells part of the DNA, but they both have a full copy.
just as a quick example, if your DNA changed at will, how could you trace someone with their DNA decades later?
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Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Antivax ?
« Reply #15 on: Fri, 23 July 2021, 19:16:33 »
Justin Lessler, an epidemiologist at the University of North Carolina

In the most likely scenario, Lessler says, the U.S. reaches only 70% vaccination among eligible Americans, and the delta variant is 60% more transmissible.

In that scenario, at the peak in mid-October, there would be around 60,000 cases and around 850 deaths each day, Lessler says.

Each scenario also includes a range of how bad things could get — the very worst end of the range for the most likely scenario shows about 240,000 people getting infected and 4,000 people dying each day at the October peak, which would be almost as bad as last winter.



J.Lessler

PhD, Epidemiology, Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health, 2008
MHS, Biostatistics, Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health, 2008
MS, Computer Science, Stanford University, 2003
BS, Mathematical Sciences, University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, 1996

Offline Leslieann

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Re: Antivax ?
« Reply #16 on: Fri, 23 July 2021, 23:46:00 »
Oh we will reach that point and then some... Deaths, not vaccinations.

Want it to stop...
Don't mandate it, it will only galvanize the right and add fuel to the fire. The people who wanted the shot already got it, those who dont wont.

Here's an alternative idea.
Keep the free vaccines, next month they become fully approved, at that point employers, insurance, schools can all mandate it.  So what you do is make an announcement that as of Oct 1 no more federal assistance for anything other than the vaccine itself. This gives people 2 months to get the shot before medical coverage ends. This destroys the Right's claim that hospitals are pumping numbers for the cash by claiming non-covid patients are labeled covid, destroys the claim that the left will force them to get the shot and puts the burden on them.
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Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Antivax ?
« Reply #17 on: Sat, 24 July 2021, 07:38:56 »

insurance .... can all mandate it.

This gives people 2 months to get the shot before medical coverage ends.


That is a good idea, and it would work, but I don't think it can be done. First, health care providers will still be stuck with taking care of sick people regardless.

Second, I would speculate that the overwhelming majority of those who refuse a vaccine are the least-educated and lowest tier consumers to have been susceptible to anti-vax propaganda in the first place.

But the real danger is allowing insurance companies to start carving out exceptions again, kind of a pre-existing condition in reverse. That is a slippery slope that nobody wants to step out on.

What popped into my mind when I read your post was thinking about a life insurance policy that I took out years ago. As the agent was going through it with me, he got to the "suicide exception" and explained that it was a 2-year exception. That is, if I had committed suicide during the first 2 years it would not have paid out, but after 2 years it would have. What a thought!
   
Over the past few decades there has been a redistribution of dignity — upward. The Republicans valorized entrepreneurs, CEOs and Wall Street. The Democratic Party became dominated by people in the creative class, who attended competitive colleges, moved to affluent metro areas, married each other and ladled advantages onto their kids so they could leap even farther ahead. There was a bipartisan embrace of a culture of individualism, which opens up a lot of space for people with resources and social support but means loneliness and abandonment for people without. Four years of college became the definition of the good life, which left roughly two-thirds of the country out. And so came the crisis that Biden was elected to address — the poisonous combination of elite insularity and vicious populist resentment. A group of people so enraged by a lack of respect that they are willing to risk death by Covid if they get to stick a middle finger in the air against those who they think look down on them. They are willing to torch our institutions because they are so resentful against the people who run them. The Democratic spending bills are economic packages that serve moral and cultural purposes. They should be measured by their cultural impact, not merely by some wonky analysis. In real, tangible ways, they would redistribute dignity back downward. They would support hundreds of thousands of jobs for home health care workers, child care workers, construction workers, metal workers, supply chain workers. They would ease the indignity millions of parents face having to raise their children in poverty.  – David Brooks NYT 2021

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Antivax ?
« Reply #18 on: Sat, 24 July 2021, 08:48:11 »
From the perspective of climate change, this disastrous chain of events may be a net positive.  Thoughts ?

Offline suicidal_orange

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Re: Antivax ?
« Reply #19 on: Sat, 24 July 2021, 09:09:38 »
From the perspective of climate change, this disastrous chain of events may be a net positive.  Thoughts ?
I've said since day 1 - survival of the fittest in action.  Originally I thought 100% infection rate and only the strong/healthy would survive, then people with brains who bothered to wear masks and actually do social distancing but at the end of the day it may well be those who are sensible enough to get injected (which may work out better, as you always try to convince me a world with no stupid people doing menial jobs would not be a pleasant place to live)

Only problem is the rich people who have the most gas guzzling cars and biggest houses to heat and cool are not the ones dying.  Though it is likely those who ignore medical advice on vaccination also ignore warnings about too much red meat and such so it might help this angle too.
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Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Antivax ?
« Reply #20 on: Sat, 24 July 2021, 09:26:25 »
From the perspective of climate change, this disastrous chain of events may be a net positive.  Thoughts ?
I've said since day 1 - survival of the fittest in action.  Originally I thought 100% infection rate and only the strong/healthy would survive, then people with brains who bothered to wear masks and actually do social distancing but at the end of the day it may well be those who are sensible enough to get injected (which may work out better, as you always try to convince me a world with no stupid people doing menial jobs would not be a pleasant place to live)

Only problem is the rich people who have the most gas guzzling cars and biggest houses to heat and cool are not the ones dying.  Though it is likely those who ignore medical advice on vaccination also ignore warnings about too much red meat and such so it might help this angle too.

The uber-rich have a tremendously Criminal carbon foot print. But, relative to the whole, it is not nearly as damaging as every person eating 3-5 hamberdurs every day.    So, really its more so the social impact of their apparent bad-behavior that does the damage, less so their personal vehicles.   I agree these are not separate events, it's all 1 bad move.

The rich guy dines on artery clogging cancer meat, so the poor person thinks, hey I want some, where's my cancer meat.

Rich guy: so you WANT cancer meat
_Poor guy: YES
Rich guy: well here you go
_Poor guy: Awesome
Rich guy: btw, here's this $100,000-300,000 heart / cancer treatment you can also pay me for. The entirety of your lifesavings.
_Poor guy: Yippie, FREEE Healthcare.  (it ain't free, paid by other poor guys's children, and children's children)

Offline Leslieann

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Re: Antivax ?
« Reply #21 on: Sat, 24 July 2021, 21:28:09 »
That is a good idea, and it would work, but I don't think it can be done. First, health care providers will still be stuck with taking care of sick people regardless.
Second, I would speculate that the overwhelming majority of those who refuse a vaccine are the least-educated and lowest tier consumers to have been susceptible to anti-vax propaganda in the first place.
But the real danger is allowing insurance companies to start carving out exceptions again, kind of a pre-existing condition in reverse. That is a slippery slope that nobody wants to step out on.

The pre-existing condition thing is a wrinkle I missed, but it doesn't matter. Let insurance cover it then, it will push them to fight harder for people to get the shot (why wade into a firestorm for no reason) and you still have the copay which will be insane and force people to take notice. Heath care providers already get stuck footing bills and us bailing them out, no change there. They write off a ton on taxes, it's also why so many are run by religious groups, it lets them write off even more. Besides, it doesn't exactly bother me if insurance companies got raked over the coals for this.

As for being poor, cutting them off means employers will now be left holding the bag, no more handouts for employees being out sick, no more bailouts for lost sales... Employers will now have to deal with the idea of suddenly having 80% of their work force out sick due to Covid or mandate they get a shot to maintain employment.
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Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Antivax ?
« Reply #22 on: Sun, 25 July 2021, 06:01:07 »
Missouri, AGAIN...

Aaron Owen, general manager of Ozark Empire Fair, told CNN. "I've worried about it all, I know (the Delta variant) is real. But farmers and agriculture folks put their livelihood at stake on this. There's lots of factors that we have to take into consideration."

He said people won't be required to wear face masks

Owen said he sold 70,000 tickets in 2020 and says he believes that there was no evidence of Covid spread, based on conversations he had with some vendors after the fair. More vendors will be in attendance this year than last.

Greene County, MO, where the fair is held has a completed vaccination rate of about 35%

This will turn out great.

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Antivax ?
« Reply #23 on: Sun, 25 July 2021, 17:55:59 »
Missouri’s Republican Attorney General Eric Schmitt says he’ll sue to halt a mask mandate.

Fohat, you tell us, this guy work'n for the ruskies ?

Offline fohat.digs

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Over the past few decades there has been a redistribution of dignity — upward. The Republicans valorized entrepreneurs, CEOs and Wall Street. The Democratic Party became dominated by people in the creative class, who attended competitive colleges, moved to affluent metro areas, married each other and ladled advantages onto their kids so they could leap even farther ahead. There was a bipartisan embrace of a culture of individualism, which opens up a lot of space for people with resources and social support but means loneliness and abandonment for people without. Four years of college became the definition of the good life, which left roughly two-thirds of the country out. And so came the crisis that Biden was elected to address — the poisonous combination of elite insularity and vicious populist resentment. A group of people so enraged by a lack of respect that they are willing to risk death by Covid if they get to stick a middle finger in the air against those who they think look down on them. They are willing to torch our institutions because they are so resentful against the people who run them. The Democratic spending bills are economic packages that serve moral and cultural purposes. They should be measured by their cultural impact, not merely by some wonky analysis. In real, tangible ways, they would redistribute dignity back downward. They would support hundreds of thousands of jobs for home health care workers, child care workers, construction workers, metal workers, supply chain workers. They would ease the indignity millions of parents face having to raise their children in poverty.  – David Brooks NYT 2021

Offline jamster

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Re: Antivax ?
« Reply #25 on: Sun, 25 July 2021, 22:41:23 »
France has an interesting approach that seems to be working.

On top of the following, once school starts up again, students will either need to be vaccinated or do daily tests at at cost of EUR30.

Quote
Starting in August, anyone in France entering a café, restaurant, shopping center, or hospital, or taking a long-distance train, will have to show a special COVID-19 health pass, President Emmanuel Macron announced on July 12, 2021.

The increased restrictions in public spaces are aimed at containing the rapid spread of the highly transmissible Delta variant in the country.

The health pass — known officially as the EU Digital COVID Certificate — shows whether a person has been vaccinated against COVID-19, received a recent negative test result, or recovered from COVID-19.

Anyone over the age of 12 will also be required to show the pass to visit a movie theater, museum, live theater, theme park, or cultural center starting July 21.

Within 48 hours of Macron’s announcement, more than 2.2 million vaccination appointments were booked online, according to a tweet from Our World in Data’s Edouard Mathieu.

Offline yui

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Re: Antivax ?
« Reply #26 on: Mon, 26 July 2021, 01:28:36 »
being in france i can tell you that it is not working that well, with the relaxation of masks we saw a huge spike in cases, and Macron has a tendency of saying things but then nothing is actually done. although it worked to get peoples vaccinated, it also may hurt in the long run as vaccination does not fully prevent the disease and so tests still would have been an essential tool to control the spread of it and of the new variants, at least making it free to peoples with an appointment or vaccinated. but still better than being completely passive or denying the crisis.
vi vi vi - the roman number of the beast (Plan9 fortune)

Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Antivax ?
« Reply #27 on: Mon, 26 July 2021, 08:02:52 »

vaccination does not fully prevent the disease

an essential tool to control the spread of it and of the new variants


And the corollary to that is that the more that the spread is reduced, the fewer and slower will variants develop in the first place.
Over the past few decades there has been a redistribution of dignity — upward. The Republicans valorized entrepreneurs, CEOs and Wall Street. The Democratic Party became dominated by people in the creative class, who attended competitive colleges, moved to affluent metro areas, married each other and ladled advantages onto their kids so they could leap even farther ahead. There was a bipartisan embrace of a culture of individualism, which opens up a lot of space for people with resources and social support but means loneliness and abandonment for people without. Four years of college became the definition of the good life, which left roughly two-thirds of the country out. And so came the crisis that Biden was elected to address — the poisonous combination of elite insularity and vicious populist resentment. A group of people so enraged by a lack of respect that they are willing to risk death by Covid if they get to stick a middle finger in the air against those who they think look down on them. They are willing to torch our institutions because they are so resentful against the people who run them. The Democratic spending bills are economic packages that serve moral and cultural purposes. They should be measured by their cultural impact, not merely by some wonky analysis. In real, tangible ways, they would redistribute dignity back downward. They would support hundreds of thousands of jobs for home health care workers, child care workers, construction workers, metal workers, supply chain workers. They would ease the indignity millions of parents face having to raise their children in poverty.  – David Brooks NYT 2021

Offline yui

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Re: Antivax ?
« Reply #28 on: Mon, 26 July 2021, 16:43:24 »
vaccination does not fully prevent the disease

an essential tool to control the spread of it and of the new variants
And the corollary to that is that the more that the spread is reduced, the fewer and slower will variants develop in the first place.
what i mean is that both are needed, as neither are a full solution. you most definitely need to get vaccinated, but also getting tested so that vaccinated symptom-less cases can get detected and not spread at all, reducing overall spread even more.
vi vi vi - the roman number of the beast (Plan9 fortune)

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Antivax ?
« Reply #29 on: Tue, 27 July 2021, 08:15:51 »
Florida:

Dr. David De La Zerda, the ICU director at Jackson Memorial Hospital, says he’s seeing patients regretting not getting vaccinated. The majority that they are treating right now are between the ages of 25 and 45.

“Most of them are saying, ‘Why didn’t I get vaccinated?” he said. “Before we admit them to the ICU, we see them on the floor. That’s the No. 1 comment. ‘I am so so ashamed I didn’t get [the vaccine] before and it’s too late.’”

“These Delta variant cases are shedding thousand-fold (viral load) more virus than the original, and remember, any protection can be overwhelmed with an overwhelming dose,” Marty said. “And so now we’ve got the unvaccinated shedding outrageous amount of virus, and yes you’re vaccinated, but in an enclosed space, your immunity can be overwhelmed by these high-dose infections.

__within a week we could be back to the peak situation of a few months ago.



Seems like Delta has much stronger atk-p0wer, its DPS can kill young people, just imagine 1000x dps end game item


Research suggests, Delta has up-to 1250x viral load, heightened evasion of antibodies, 33% faster incubation 4 days vs 6 days, approximately 2x-3x as transmissible,.

Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Antivax ?
« Reply #30 on: Tue, 27 July 2021, 08:40:56 »

within a week we could be back to the peak situation of a few months ago


And Putin will be gratified knowing that his work was successful.
Over the past few decades there has been a redistribution of dignity — upward. The Republicans valorized entrepreneurs, CEOs and Wall Street. The Democratic Party became dominated by people in the creative class, who attended competitive colleges, moved to affluent metro areas, married each other and ladled advantages onto their kids so they could leap even farther ahead. There was a bipartisan embrace of a culture of individualism, which opens up a lot of space for people with resources and social support but means loneliness and abandonment for people without. Four years of college became the definition of the good life, which left roughly two-thirds of the country out. And so came the crisis that Biden was elected to address — the poisonous combination of elite insularity and vicious populist resentment. A group of people so enraged by a lack of respect that they are willing to risk death by Covid if they get to stick a middle finger in the air against those who they think look down on them. They are willing to torch our institutions because they are so resentful against the people who run them. The Democratic spending bills are economic packages that serve moral and cultural purposes. They should be measured by their cultural impact, not merely by some wonky analysis. In real, tangible ways, they would redistribute dignity back downward. They would support hundreds of thousands of jobs for home health care workers, child care workers, construction workers, metal workers, supply chain workers. They would ease the indignity millions of parents face having to raise their children in poverty.  – David Brooks NYT 2021

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Antivax ?
« Reply #31 on: Tue, 27 July 2021, 08:51:15 »
within a week we could be back to the peak situation of a few months ago

And Putin will be gratified knowing that his work was successful.

Don't like it when they use the timeline on Weeks, a week is 7 days,  Tp4 does basically nohting in 7 days, annnnd, bam everyone's already ded.

Offline fohat.digs

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Over the past few decades there has been a redistribution of dignity — upward. The Republicans valorized entrepreneurs, CEOs and Wall Street. The Democratic Party became dominated by people in the creative class, who attended competitive colleges, moved to affluent metro areas, married each other and ladled advantages onto their kids so they could leap even farther ahead. There was a bipartisan embrace of a culture of individualism, which opens up a lot of space for people with resources and social support but means loneliness and abandonment for people without. Four years of college became the definition of the good life, which left roughly two-thirds of the country out. And so came the crisis that Biden was elected to address — the poisonous combination of elite insularity and vicious populist resentment. A group of people so enraged by a lack of respect that they are willing to risk death by Covid if they get to stick a middle finger in the air against those who they think look down on them. They are willing to torch our institutions because they are so resentful against the people who run them. The Democratic spending bills are economic packages that serve moral and cultural purposes. They should be measured by their cultural impact, not merely by some wonky analysis. In real, tangible ways, they would redistribute dignity back downward. They would support hundreds of thousands of jobs for home health care workers, child care workers, construction workers, metal workers, supply chain workers. They would ease the indignity millions of parents face having to raise their children in poverty.  – David Brooks NYT 2021


Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Antivax ?
« Reply #34 on: Wed, 28 July 2021, 07:01:24 »
The Vaccine snapshot right now for <at least 1 dose> basically tells us what % of the population is kinda dum'

US vaccination rate has stalled.

It's pretty much half, which is frightening, these people are on the highway for heck


https://usafacts.org/visualizations/covid-vaccine-tracker-states/

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Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Antivax ?
« Reply #35 on: Wed, 28 July 2021, 19:51:45 »
Multiple children hospitals have reported ICU @ full capacity and covid-kids ON VENTILATORS.

Some have Died.


https://www.houstonpress.com/news/at-texas-childrens-some-kids-with-covid-need-ventilators-11610665

Parents should just buy Star Trek blurays,   There's nothing kids learn in school that isn't better taught by Star Trek.

Math might be the only subject that needs some home-schooling effort, everything else, just watch the blurays.

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Antivax ?
« Reply #36 on: Wed, 28 July 2021, 20:13:11 »
Based on preliminary research, Because Delta variant has 1000x the viral load.  Even infected vaccinated individuals produce enough shedding to cause infection.

This means, even if a person is vaccinated he should wear a mask.


That's pretty insane,  Between THIS, and trump voters, this is never going to end.

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Antivax ?
« Reply #37 on: Wed, 28 July 2021, 21:13:55 »
Oh man, this gif is a computer simulation, wayyy creepier than the friendly colorful version we've all seen.

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Offline wowaweewa

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Re: Antivax ?
« Reply #38 on: Thu, 29 July 2021, 06:12:10 »
Does 'notfully vaccinated' include people who have only had their first shot, not yet the second? In that case you can't really say these deaths are all anti vaxers.

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Antivax ?
« Reply #39 on: Thu, 29 July 2021, 06:32:29 »
Does 'notfully vaccinated' include people who have only had their first shot, not yet the second? In that case you can't really say these deaths are all anti vaxers.
It's a small enough difference that it wouldn't change the large picture, because it's not the only reason to get vaccinated.   

Yes we want to prevent death, but preventing direct death is secondary to preventing NEW INFECTIONS. The vaccine's primary goal is infection control.  NOT dying is a happy side effect of being part of that process.

Offline chyros

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Re: Antivax ?
« Reply #40 on: Thu, 29 July 2021, 10:06:39 »
Does 'notfully vaccinated' include people who have only had their first shot, not yet the second? In that case you can't really say these deaths are all anti vaxers.
It's a small enough difference that it wouldn't change the large picture, because it's not the only reason to get vaccinated.   

Yes we want to prevent death, but preventing direct death is secondary to preventing NEW INFECTIONS. The vaccine's primary goal is infection control.  NOT dying is a happy side effect of being part of that process.

I was under the impression that the priorities were the exact other way around Oo . As long as people don't end up in the hospital and overflow them.
Check my keyboard video reviews:


Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Antivax ?
« Reply #41 on: Thu, 29 July 2021, 12:37:23 »

I was under the impression that the priorities were the exact other way around


On the micro level we each want to avoid getting sick, but the macro goal is to blanket the entire society with protection and de-escalate spread and mutation.
Over the past few decades there has been a redistribution of dignity — upward. The Republicans valorized entrepreneurs, CEOs and Wall Street. The Democratic Party became dominated by people in the creative class, who attended competitive colleges, moved to affluent metro areas, married each other and ladled advantages onto their kids so they could leap even farther ahead. There was a bipartisan embrace of a culture of individualism, which opens up a lot of space for people with resources and social support but means loneliness and abandonment for people without. Four years of college became the definition of the good life, which left roughly two-thirds of the country out. And so came the crisis that Biden was elected to address — the poisonous combination of elite insularity and vicious populist resentment. A group of people so enraged by a lack of respect that they are willing to risk death by Covid if they get to stick a middle finger in the air against those who they think look down on them. They are willing to torch our institutions because they are so resentful against the people who run them. The Democratic spending bills are economic packages that serve moral and cultural purposes. They should be measured by their cultural impact, not merely by some wonky analysis. In real, tangible ways, they would redistribute dignity back downward. They would support hundreds of thousands of jobs for home health care workers, child care workers, construction workers, metal workers, supply chain workers. They would ease the indignity millions of parents face having to raise their children in poverty.  – David Brooks NYT 2021

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Antivax ?
« Reply #42 on: Fri, 30 July 2021, 07:51:26 »
Alabamr' ::

Sarah Nafziger, M.D., vice president of UAB Hospital Clinical Services, said Thursday that Alabama now has the highest COVID positivity rate in the country.

According to the Alabama Department of Public Health (ADPH), Alabama’s percent positive rate is 21.5% as of July 29, 2021.

Nafziger said people are starting to fill up hospitals again and 97 percent of the people who are being treated for COVID-19 are unvaccinated.

The average age of admitted COVID-19 patients is about 55 years old. She said the difference is Alabama’s older population, 65 and older, took the vaccine. That is keeping them out of the hospital.

“To me it’s like jumping out of an airplane without a parachute. We have a parachute, why would you jump out of an airplane without a parachute?” Asked Nafziger.


___  Tp4 would love a free parachute, they're super expensive.

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Antivax ?
« Reply #43 on: Fri, 30 July 2021, 08:00:16 »
CDC's new context on DELTA VARIANT..

The document strikes an urgent note, revealing the agency knows it must revamp its public messaging to emphasize vaccination as the best defense against a variant so contagious that it acts almost like a different novel virus, leaping from target to target more swiftly than Ebola or the common cold.



Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Antivax ?
« Reply #44 on: Fri, 30 July 2021, 08:19:24 »

leaping from target to target


The cold analogy is good but the Ebola comparison is spurious. Ebola requires body fluids.

https://www.cdc.gov/vhf/ebola/transmission/index.html

Airborne infections are the most frightening and difficult to control.
Over the past few decades there has been a redistribution of dignity — upward. The Republicans valorized entrepreneurs, CEOs and Wall Street. The Democratic Party became dominated by people in the creative class, who attended competitive colleges, moved to affluent metro areas, married each other and ladled advantages onto their kids so they could leap even farther ahead. There was a bipartisan embrace of a culture of individualism, which opens up a lot of space for people with resources and social support but means loneliness and abandonment for people without. Four years of college became the definition of the good life, which left roughly two-thirds of the country out. And so came the crisis that Biden was elected to address — the poisonous combination of elite insularity and vicious populist resentment. A group of people so enraged by a lack of respect that they are willing to risk death by Covid if they get to stick a middle finger in the air against those who they think look down on them. They are willing to torch our institutions because they are so resentful against the people who run them. The Democratic spending bills are economic packages that serve moral and cultural purposes. They should be measured by their cultural impact, not merely by some wonky analysis. In real, tangible ways, they would redistribute dignity back downward. They would support hundreds of thousands of jobs for home health care workers, child care workers, construction workers, metal workers, supply chain workers. They would ease the indignity millions of parents face having to raise their children in poverty.  – David Brooks NYT 2021

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Antivax ?
« Reply #45 on: Fri, 30 July 2021, 08:29:52 »
Airborne infections are the most frightening and difficult to control.


has fohat.oldman played Plague Inc ?

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Antivax ?
« Reply #46 on: Fri, 30 July 2021, 08:45:51 »
data from a July 4 outbreak in Provincetown, Mass. Genetic analysis of the outbreak showed that people who were vaccinated were transmitting the virus to other vaccinated people. The person said the data was “deeply disconcerting” and a “canary in the coal mine” for scientists who had seen the data.

Woah.. that's pretty serious..  Mass has among the highest vacc rates.

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Antivax ?
« Reply #47 on: Fri, 30 July 2021, 09:01:36 »
Florida Hospital declares CODE BLACK, as cases near last summer's peak.. ??

WTH, why do they call it that, so ominous

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Antivax ?
« Reply #48 on: Fri, 30 July 2021, 09:15:33 »
No way man,  Couldn't see this coming.....

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Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Antivax ?
« Reply #49 on: Fri, 30 July 2021, 09:43:22 »
Japan expands state of emergency as infections surpass 10,000,   3865(tokyo).

Delta variant responsible for 70% infections.

Any chance that the olympics will be interrupted ?