Author Topic: MX Zilents, How to make them?  (Read 3380 times)

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Offline Will_I_am344

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MX Zilents, How to make them?
« on: Tue, 13 April 2021, 09:22:06 »
Hi I am thinking of making MX Zilents.

I have MX Silent Red and Aliaz 70g, I also got tribosys 3203 lube. In order to make these, I would keep the housing from Aliaz, put in the stem from the Red, and I could pick either spring right? But I suppose the Red spring (I think 45g) is way too light? I got MX Brown Springs leftover as well, so maybe use them or the Aliaz 70g springs, what do you think, does it matter?

Also is the 3203 lube good? I've only lubed tactical switches before, should I not lube the legs of the stem on these linears?

Thanks

Offline Findecanor

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Re: MX Zilents, How to make them?
« Reply #1 on: Tue, 13 April 2021, 11:32:42 »
The "Zilent" are tactile. You're thinking of the linear Sakurio/RosÚlio/Healio?

The Aliaz has springs with a surface-treatment to make them fractionally smoother than stock Gateron Silent Brown switches. The Zeal PC switches' springs also have some surface treatment for the same reason,

The MX Brown's springs should be in-between the 70g Aliaz' and the 45g MX Silent Red's in weight.
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Offline Will_I_am344

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Re: MX Zilents, How to make them?
« Reply #2 on: Tue, 13 April 2021, 11:42:32 »
I am not talking about Zeal Zilent, I am talking about the mixed switch often referred to as MX Zilents, which is a linear switch, using the housings of a tactile switch (Zeal Zilent, Aliaz etc) with a linear stem (Silent Red or Black)

Offline Sup

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Re: MX Zilents, How to make them?
« Reply #3 on: Tue, 13 April 2021, 15:34:44 »
I am not talking about Zeal Zilent, I am talking about the mixed switch often referred to as MX Zilents, which is a linear switch, using the housings of a tactile switch (Zeal Zilent, Aliaz etc) with a linear stem (Silent Red or Black)

Lol in the MX clones line up there is no housing for a tactile switch it's all the same for linear and tactile. The stems makes it tactile,clicky or linear. Also Zilent was used back in the day for using Zeal housing with a Cherry MX silent stem. Zeal housing + silent stem = Zilents. Zilent isn't used to describe other modded switches that use a silent stem in a clone housing.
« Last Edit: Tue, 13 April 2021, 15:37:30 by Sup »
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Offline Will_I_am344

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Re: MX Zilents, How to make them?
« Reply #4 on: Tue, 13 April 2021, 15:44:06 »
Lol in the MX clones line up there is no housing for a tactile switch it's all the same for linear and tactile. The stems makes it tactile,clicky or linear. Also Zilent was used back in the day for using Zeal housing with a Cherry MX silent stem. Zeal housing + silent stem = Zilents. Zilent isn't used to describe other modded switches that use a silent stem in a clone housing.

Yes that is exactly what I said, and that's what I want to do. Or what did you think I meant?

Also can you help me out with it?

Which lube? I got 3203 but thinking krygos 205 instead, just super thin layer.

Lube legs and or dampeners? (First silent linear for me)

Which spring weight do you think? (I am thinking 70g might be the best)

EDIT: Oh now I see maybe you mean it's not Zilents because it's Aliaz instead of Zeal Zilent? Well in that case I can only say that in regards to the scarce material I can find on this subject, it seems to be very widely understood that Aliaz housings are also called Zilents since they are so similar that all I've seen who own both says it might be impossible to tell them apart. And also to cite another owner of Aliaz MX Zilents:

"Aliaz is a variant of the frankenswitch andnaliaz has gateron made housing. Reviews indicate the feeling is the same as zeal v1 housing (there is speculation the leaf on v2 is actually tuned for tactility and can make linears a little scratchy). There is no good term for aliaz made Zilents though so i refer to them as this and explain the parts specifically."

Here is a dedicated youtube video, referring to both Aliaz and Zeal Zilent as MX Zilents and comparing their sound:

In this thread, other owner(s) refer to Aliaz housings with MX Silent stems as MX Zilents as well: https://www.keebtalk.com/t/sneaky-mx-zilent-typing-when-everyone-asleep-but-you/3118/6

More youtube videos calling Aliaz housings with Silent stems for MX Zilents:
« Last Edit: Tue, 13 April 2021, 16:12:45 by Will_I_am344 »

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: MX Zilents, How to make them?
« Reply #5 on: Tue, 13 April 2021, 16:21:25 »
You'd want to put them in a Split + Tentable keyboard for maximum Ergonomicness

Offline Will_I_am344

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Re: MX Zilents, How to make them?
« Reply #6 on: Tue, 13 April 2021, 16:28:06 »
You'd want to put them in a Split + Tentable keyboard for maximum Ergonomicness

Thank you! Sadly that's not really the knowledge I am looking for. Can you help me with my request?

Offline Leslieann

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Re: MX Zilents, How to make them?
« Reply #7 on: Tue, 13 April 2021, 18:14:02 »
These people calling these MX Zilents are a**holes.
Zeal Zilents are an MX switch so using that name is just moronic and creates issues for everyone, especially Zeal.  Seriously guys, find a new name.

Why create this switch at all, Zeal makes dampened silent linear switches (again further muddying the water) which I can pretty much assure you use the same housing and above all else,  it's a linear stem, by the time you lube them the only difference between linears is dampened or not dampened. There's almost no difference between any of them. This is stupid and pointless and if it was me I wouldn't give any of these people any more publicity than you already have.




As for your questions,
Cherry brown, red and blue springs are the same spring, they have a different rating because Cherry doesn't actually rate the spring they tell you activation pressure, which is spring plus leaf. Too light? I'm not sure what the limit is on linears for spring pressure but I can assure you can go a LOT lower than Cherry light springs, it;s only a matter of if YOU want to.

That lube is fine. Thicker lube feels smoother, lighter feels more snappy, that is considered thick for switches but perfectly fine and is the most common (if over-priced) lube used.
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Offline Will_I_am344

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Re: MX Zilents, How to make them?
« Reply #8 on: Tue, 13 April 2021, 18:22:26 »
Helpful response!

Thank you very much for your response! It was helpful. I was quite intrigued about these Zeal dampened silent linears you mentioned. Do you know the name of their model? I tried googling but couldn't find anything except a post stating they are coming but will probably be inferior to Cherry linears: https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/9agyl7/forthcoming_zeal_silent_linear_switches_how_quiet/

Also, I don't cite sources to give them exposure, rather to avoid misunderstandings as there has already been WAY too many in this thread for my taste.

I will go for 3203 lube then, but should I lube the stems legs and/or dampeners? Also the question about spring was obviously if you would want to light, I didn't mean that it would be literally to light for the switch to function.

And finally, why I want to make them is because they are recognized by many to be one of the most quiet switch you can get your hands on, and after listening to many sound tests of them, I am quite fascinated by how beautifully deep the sound is. I will also study a lot in library so I want something that is as quiet as possible.

EDIT: Oh also remembered pure Zeal are as expensive as both the switches I am buying, so I would get louder linears and half the switch material, as I can use the housings and stems that aren't used in the build to make cheerios or in future builds!

EDIT: As you can hear in the following youtube video there is a HUGE sound difference between the MX Zilents and regular MX Cherry Silents:

EDIT Again: I think I found the Zeal you were talking about, Roselios, right? But as you can hear from the following clip they are much louder than MX Zilents as well:
« Last Edit: Tue, 13 April 2021, 18:44:18 by Will_I_am344 »

Offline Leslieann

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Re: MX Zilents, How to make them?
« Reply #9 on: Tue, 13 April 2021, 18:57:00 »
Zeal has 3 silent linears.
https://zealpc.net/

Couple things I see in those clips... He's comparing a modded switch to a stock switch, how much do you want to bet he lubed those when he put them together? Zeals are well lubed from the factory and while they do not get much if any smoother with more lube they can get more quiet with more lube because we lube for more than just friction. My Zeal Zilents which are lubed are closer to the hacked switches. The Rozealios in that second clip sound closer to my lubed non-dampenned stock Zealios, like I said, lube changes things. I call lube the great equalizer for a reason.

My advice, buy a few samples and see for yourself rather than listening to something that has been manipulated by humans and electronics.

On linears you lube everything but the leaf itself.
On tactile and clicky you avoid the legs and leaf or they become more linear.
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Offline Will_I_am344

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Re: MX Zilents, How to make them?
« Reply #10 on: Wed, 14 April 2021, 01:45:57 »
Great answer
Thank you very much. I will look up more info about the other linears you mentioned. I will go with this switch for this build however. I am very glad you told me how to lube them, thanks a lot for that!

Re: MX Zilents, How to make them?
« Reply #11 on: Wed, 14 April 2021, 10:03:24 »
These people calling these MX Zilents are a**holes.
Zeal Zilents are an MX switch so using that name is just moronic and creates issues for everyone, especially Zeal.  Seriously guys, find a new name.

Why create this switch at all, Zeal makes dampened silent linear switches (again further muddying the water) which I can pretty much assure you use the same housing and above all else,  it's a linear stem, by the time you lube them the only difference between linears is dampened or not dampened. There's almost no difference between any of them. This is stupid and pointless and if it was me I wouldn't give any of these people any more publicity than you already have.




As for your questions,
Cherry brown, red and blue springs are the same spring, they have a different rating because Cherry doesn't actually rate the spring they tell you activation pressure, which is spring plus leaf. Too light? I'm not sure what the limit is on linears for spring pressure but I can assure you can go a LOT lower than Cherry light springs, it;s only a matter of if YOU want to.

That lube is fine. Thicker lube feels smoother, lighter feels more snappy, that is considered thick for switches but perfectly fine and is the most common (if over-priced) lube used.

There is nothing ******** about it. Zeal's products were fine 3 or 4 years ago but these days they are way over priced compared to the competition (so many good linears and tactiles have come out since the early days of Zilent and Zealios) and dodgy quality control on Zeal, especially for the price.

The dampener on the silent Cherry MX slider is softer than Zeal's. The hybrid switch is quieter and has a more satisfying bottom out, in real life I think it just sounds better as well. If you like these characteristics the "MX Zilent" is a perfectly fine alternative. Cherry Zilent is probably a better name but MX Zilent is ubiquitous and everyone knows what it means.

MX Zilents would rank up there with my favorite linear switches. Zeal Zilents wouldn't.
« Last Edit: Wed, 14 April 2021, 10:07:34 by directheatedtriode »

Offline Leslieann

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Re: MX Zilents, How to make them?
« Reply #12 on: Wed, 14 April 2021, 16:50:49 »
The dampener on the silent Cherry MX slider is softer than Zeal's. The hybrid switch is quieter and has a more satisfying bottom out, in real life I think it just sounds better as well. If you like these characteristics the "MX Zilent" is a perfectly fine alternative. Cherry Zilent is probably a better name but MX Zilent is ubiquitous and everyone knows what it means.

None of that is justification.
MX Zilent is ubiquitous? You can't seriously beleive that nonsense, all you have to do is look at the confusion in this thread to know that's a massive pile of B.S.

Calling it MX Zilent is like Chevy naming a new car model "FordCar", imagine trying to search "FordCar", that's effectively what this does. It dilutes the brand and worse makes it harder for everyone trying to search for actual Zilents (which are TACTILE!). If I was Zeal I'd file a complaint to Youtube for IP infringement to shut this down because it screws with his trademark.

Your post and that name (MX Zilents) ranks up there with some of the dumbest things I've seen on this forum in quite a while.
« Last Edit: Wed, 14 April 2021, 17:46:12 by Leslieann »
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Offline Will_I_am344

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Re: MX Zilents, How to make them?
« Reply #13 on: Wed, 14 April 2021, 17:08:10 »
Your post and that name ranks up there with some of the dumbest things I've seen on this forum in quite a while.
Dude please get out of this thread. Your flame and attitude is unwarranted and extremely rude.

Offline Leslieann

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Re: MX Zilents, How to make them?
« Reply #14 on: Wed, 14 April 2021, 18:11:56 »
The flame was in reference to the name MX zilents and the justification for stealing the name which they even admit is bad (I added that clarification).  It causes confusion, which is why no one else here even knew what you were referring to when you posted this thread, pretty much proving my point.

At some point in the future, if you ever get into marketing, manufacturing and business you'll understand my frustration here. This doesn't help people it causes confusion and messes with a community based company. Zeal is owned by an enthusiast and GH member and pretty much kick started the whole boutique switch market. This is just doing him dirty.
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Offline Will_I_am344

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Re: MX Zilents, How to make them?
« Reply #15 on: Wed, 14 April 2021, 18:25:27 »
At some point in the future, if you ever get into marketing, manufacturing and business you'll understand my frustration here.
Thanks for the condescending comment. You don't know me and for all you know I could work in any or all of these fields. Although I suspect you don't work with people.

As for the name, I also think you're wrong. I will lay down simple arguments as to why, although I expect you might start calling me names, in which case I will never respond to you again.

- Zeal Zilents are MX compatible, but MX is more broadly used as a term for marketing Cherry switches. As you can see for example at https://kbdfans.com/collections/cherry-switches the cherry switches are named MX while Zeals aren't https://kbdfans.com/collections/zealios-switches even though Zeals are MX compatible.

- You refer to the confusion of two users as if "no one" understands, which to me doesn't make sense as it's first of all a hyperbole. And secondly, the first user comment couldn't have read my post since I even said specifically that I would combine a cherry mx silent red with an aliaz, and they asked if I meant other Roselios or other switches. The second one seemed to understand perfectly but didn't think that aliaz could substitute a zeal zilent housing

- Lastly, if you would research the name MX Zilents you will see that it's very widely known, and I think the confusion which happens is more due to it being a frankenswitch (which seemingly few people have experience with) and not its name, as I already stated before, I think the name makes perfect sense. At least until Zeal are rebranded as Zeal MX Zilents.

EDIT: Additionally, I am sure no damage is done to the founder of Zeal Zilent switches by one of the most quiet switches being associated with a Zeal Zilent housing, and I don't think you are in any position to state otherwise other than pure speculation.
« Last Edit: Wed, 14 April 2021, 18:30:28 by Will_I_am344 »

Offline Leslieann

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Re: MX Zilents, How to make them?
« Reply #16 on: Wed, 14 April 2021, 20:22:33 »
Sooo by your theory if we take a Cherry MX Black housing a Zilent stem should we call it it  "MX Black" or "Zilent Cherry"?

It doesn't really convey anything about what it actually is does and makes it an absolute nightmare to find any info, now imagine if every random switch combo was named this way. There's a reason Ergo Clears, Holy Pandas and Jailhouse Blues are named the way they are, so you can find them easily and not get confused with an existing product name.

More importantly...
US patent and trademark law (which is similar in other places) requires you to protect your name, brand, I.P. and trademark or risk losing it, that can mean lawyers and that costs money. He may be legally obligated to involve lawyers and shut that down once he hears about it. Both of you are trying to defend something that's well established business law and common marketing practices.

I expect you might start calling me names, in which case I will never respond to you again.
I attacked someone else's comment with reasoning and facts, so yeah, I guess it's totally reasonable to start calling you names. /S

And yes I do work with people but there's a difference between being the trained monkey who has to jump every time a customer tells them to and being the manager, technician or owner who actually tells you "No". I worked my way up through all of those positions.

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Offline Will_I_am344

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Re: MX Zilents, How to make them?
« Reply #17 on: Thu, 15 April 2021, 01:53:09 »
Sooo by your theory if we take a Cherry MX Black housing a Zilent stem should we call it it  "MX Black" or "Zilent Cherry"?

And yes I do work with people but there's a difference between being the trained monkey who has to jump every time a customer tells them to and being the manager, technician or owner who actually tells you "No".
I think those specific switches are referred to as Cheerios. MX Black doesn't make sense as it doesn't include any part from the Zilent in its name. Logically, even MX Zilents would make sense for that switch as well, as neither name specifies which part of the switch is the stem and which is the housing. If you are looking for a clear name that's the first part you should try to decide in my opinion.

There is a difference between telling someone no and being rude and saying someone's post is among the dumbest you have ever seen, even if it's true then you could help the person instead of being rude to them. Additionally, you told me that if I had more experience I would not only agree with you, but also feel your frustration, which is a manipulative debating argument by using a logical fallacy called argument from authority. And if you do not see why that is wrong then I can't help you.

EDIT: Grammar
« Last Edit: Thu, 15 April 2021, 01:55:14 by Will_I_am344 »

Offline Leslieann

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Re: MX Zilents, How to make them?
« Reply #18 on: Thu, 15 April 2021, 04:12:57 »
MX Black doesn't make sense as it doesn't include any part from the Zilent in its name.
That's exactly my point!
Where is the Zilent part in the MX Zilent?

You can't steal Zeal's product name and apply it to something entirely different in the same product category. If Zeal Zilents didn't exist, fine, but they do and therefore should not and cannot be used this way. Legally to maintain his trademark, ZEAL, once aware of this now has to defend his name. It doesn't matter if it's different, you cannot use a name in a way that causes confusion. Both being MX compatible switches very much violates that part of trademark law and it does not matter if it's a business or not and regardless it still causes confusion.

And I wasn't debating this, it's been settled many times over in courts of law.
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Costar model with browns
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Definitive Omron Guide.

Offline Will_I_am344

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 25
Re: MX Zilents, How to make them?
« Reply #19 on: Thu, 15 April 2021, 04:17:06 »
Where is the Zilent part in the MX Zilent?
MX Zilent <-- Right there lol

EDIT: Also you do realize MX Zilents isn't an actual product right? No company is selling these. It's just the most commonly known slang term for a specific frankenswitch. There is no one for Zeal to defend his trademark from, there is no one he could bring to court over this.
« Last Edit: Thu, 15 April 2021, 04:25:33 by Will_I_am344 »

Re: MX Zilents, How to make them?
« Reply #20 on: Thu, 15 April 2021, 06:01:38 »
The dampener on the silent Cherry MX slider is softer than Zeal's. The hybrid switch is quieter and has a more satisfying bottom out, in real life I think it just sounds better as well. If you like these characteristics the "MX Zilent" is a perfectly fine alternative. Cherry Zilent is probably a better name but MX Zilent is ubiquitous and everyone knows what it means.

None of that is justification.
MX Zilent is ubiquitous? You can't seriously beleive that nonsense, all you have to do is look at the confusion in this thread to know that's a massive pile of B.S.

Calling it MX Zilent is like Chevy naming a new car model "FordCar", imagine trying to search "FordCar", that's effectively what this does. It dilutes the brand and worse makes it harder for everyone trying to search for actual Zilents (which are TACTILE!). If I was Zeal I'd file a complaint to Youtube for IP infringement to shut this down because it screws with his trademark.

Your post and that name (MX Zilents) ranks up there with some of the dumbest things I've seen on this forum in quite a while.

In the future if you don't know what something is I suggest doing a simple Google search, there is unequivocally no ambiguity what they are. The highest viewed video on Youtube from TaehaTypes doesn't even have to mention what an MX Zilent is in his video, everyone just knows.

This lunatic rant about IP infringement and copyrights is mental, it's something that the community came up with, no one is setting up a Shopify store to sell them. This sort of simping to manufacturers (and subpar cash grab ones like Zeal) at the expensive the community is embarrassing.
« Last Edit: Thu, 15 April 2021, 06:11:04 by directheatedtriode »

Re: MX Zilents, How to make them?
« Reply #21 on: Thu, 15 April 2021, 06:09:34 »
How is Holy Panda a better name? It's not clear whether you take the stem or is it the housing from a "Holy" switch? What is a Holy switch?

Or is it the stem and housing from a Panda switch? Also aren't there like 4 or 5 different "Panda" switches?

Oh that's right I could do a Google search to figure it out.

Or I could use the argument that since two people don't know what they are, they are the universal truth.

Your argument on the poor naming falls apart even further, really just another excuse to simp for Zeal and anger over people mocking ****ty Zeal switches.




Too funny I forgot he sponsors the channel with the highest viewed MX Zilent video (with no mention of what an MX Zilent is in the description), quick Zeal file copyright infringement with Youtube like the simp says! Take his monetization money, go after his house! Some crazy person on GH says do it.

Edit: never mind, I'm clearly having an argument with a troll, why is it the trolls that have thousand posts on GH like that dude with the several thousand dollar one off Topre (that claims he died) or that other guy that replies to Topre threads having never used one.
« Last Edit: Thu, 15 April 2021, 06:49:43 by directheatedtriode »

Offline Will_I_am344

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 25
Re: MX Zilents, How to make them?
« Reply #22 on: Thu, 15 April 2021, 08:33:37 »
Things that makes sense
Hi dude did you have these switches, which housing and stem did you use? And also which spring weight did you use?

I am thinking of 70g from the Aliaz but I am not sure, what do you think?

Offline Domantas

  • Posts: 195
  • Location: Lithuania
Re: MX Zilents, How to make them?
« Reply #23 on: Fri, 06 August 2021, 09:26:18 »
I agree that mx zilent is a non sense name. In search engine it is nightmare to find. Just drop the "mx" which makes name confusing as f and call "silencios" (silent + tealios/zealios/healios/roselios) (zeal would not start with "s" as they are so with their Z)

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