GMK Olivetti vs IMSTO thick pbt

[lightsout714]

What do you guys think. Both with the blue legends and two tone caps. I have regretted selling my pbt dye sub set since I got it. But I love new Cherry DS's. Torn between the two.

Anyone got some nice pics to help me decide one or the other? I am leaning towards the DS's as I once had a brand new set of Cherry DS's and really liked them.

[calavera]

They're both awesome. You can't go wrong with either. Having said that, I'm a big fan for authentic cherry key caps.

[Jocelyn]

Thick PBT (Me no like shiny caps)
/thread

Edit - You see what's going to happen here?

[Dubsgalore]

GMK

ask CPT
or anyone else

[Michael]

Olivetti BSP Dye Sub. Just wait for it. Imsto isn't as great as cherry original PBT.

[Jocelyn]

Olivetti BSP Dye Sub. Just wait for it. Imsto isn't as great as cherry original PBT.

I can agree with this^

Edit - but no spacebar

[CPTBadAss]

I have both sets and I LOVE the GMK Olivetti so much. I'm actually seriously considering selling my IMSTO thick PBTs.

[lightsout714]

I have both sets and I LOVE the GMK Olivetti so much. I'm actually seriously considering selling my IMSTO thick PBTs.

Olivetti BSP Dye Sub. Just wait for it. Imsto isn't as great as cherry original PBT.

Isn't the price way hard on those? $110 is already pretty steep for me for a set of caps. Thats about my limit unless they were way special.

I have both sets and I LOVE the GMK Olivetti so much. I'm actually seriously considering selling my IMSTO thick PBTs.

Oh nice you have both, can you tell me why you prefer the DS's? Just curious.

Jocelyn I do agree with the shiny keys though thats the one thing that sucks about the DS's imo.

[Michael]

Olivetti BSP Dye Sub. Just wait for it. Imsto isn't as great as cherry original PBT.

Isn't the price way hard on those? $110 is already pretty steep for me for a set of caps. Thats about my limit unless they were way special.

You pay almost as much for an imsto set depending on where you get it. But there is a pretty noticeable difference in feel between imsto and cherry pbt.

[Jocelyn]

Jocelyn I do agree with the shiny keys though thats the one thing that sucks about the DS's imo.

You could always just put them in a box and store them in the closet

[CPTBadAss]

I have both sets and I LOVE the GMK Olivetti so much. I'm actually seriously considering selling my IMSTO thick PBTs.

Oh nice you have both, can you tell me why you prefer the DS's? Just curious.

I think the IMSTOs are a bit sandy and rough while the DoubleShots are smooth. IMSTO caps feel thick, but not as thick as the Cherry doubleshots. And they're not as heavy as the IMSTO caps. I like how heavy the DS' feel. Plus I really like how the legends look. The IMSTO ones are dye subbed or laser and aren't as clear.

[lightsout714]

Can someone link me to who will be selling the cherry pbt's?


And CPT I agree the legends on the pbts aren't great. Kind of fuzzy.

[Photekq]

I sold my imstos because I hated how blurry the legends were. Waiting for GMK Dolch & an old black on beige Cherry doubleshot set to arrive. The latter has really shiny alphanumeric keys but I still can't wait to get them.

[Goodfella]

PBT anything > *

I can't imagine going back to abs after using pbt thick or regular, they just shine so damn fast on the wasd with the games I play.

It's all personal preference, but shiny keys bother me.

[lightsout714]

I agree I hate shiny keys. I don't really game anymore so hopefully they last a while.

[Jocelyn]

I agree I hate shiny keys. I don't really game anymore so hopefully they last a while.

Well it's not like they're going to fall apart, but they'll shine up real fast

[lightsout714]

Hopefully real fast isn't all that fast. We'll see.

Cpt. How long have you had your gmks and are they shiny?

[Hyde]

Luckily I went through the same situation as you very recently.  Considering the choice I'd say you like blue and therefore has good taste so I will say bravo my friend LOL.

Anyway here's my opinion on this matter:

SHORT VERSION

Go with Imsto PBT.  In my opinion they're better made and fit my Filco better (read long version for the reason).

LONG VERSION

PRICE
I bought my imsto PBT set through group buy for $75, where as the Olivetti ABS Double Shot I got it for $95 from Originative.  Shipping I think cost about the same.  But if you buy it without group buy I think the price should be similar between the two.

COLOR
Personally I bought the all white with blue letter Imsto dyesub (no grey modifier), and I actually prefer this over the Olivetti's setup (grey modifier) as I think all white looks more "modern".  Another to keep in mind is that Imsto's "white" is more like neutral light grey.  Olivetti's "white" is more like light grey with a tint of creamy yellow.  I find Imsto's set match better with my beige Filco and the Olivetti just look very "old".  In this case I prefer the Imsto set but look is "preference".

TYPING FEEL
Like people said Olivetti Double Shot is very smooth, where as the Imsto PBT has a very fine texture to it.  I find I'm ok with either one.  Though  initially I wasn't a fan of PBT as I find it too harsh since the plastic is very hard and when you bottom out it's a very hard thock.  And I thought I like ABS better because it's a bit more forgiving, but I think PBT is growing on me and I kind of don't mind it now.  I find the typing feel is not too noticeable on the 1x1 keys but with the large keys, you start to notice how solid the thick keys are compare to the typical thin keycaps.  Oh and keep in mind that Imsto uses a dash on the F and J and Cherry set use a scoop.  I find scoop throws me off and I much prefer the dash.

COMPATABILITY
I have to say, Cherry profile is horrible for Costar stabilizer.  It grinds the stabilizer wire a little on certain keys because of very little clearance.  But somehow the Imsto set has less grinding than the Olivetti Double Shot.  So if you use a board with Costar stabilizer then you should beware of this.

BUILD QUALITY
This might shock a lot of people but I find the Imsto set is more "refined".  Like I think the GMK tooling is made a long time ago and has been continuously used until today.  You can tell from the uneven keycap thickness.  For example the top and bottom wall is 1 thickness, and the left and right wall is another thickness.  Where as the Imsto cap have uniform thickness on any side walls.  Also the plastic "nub" on the top side of the keycap is smaller and less noticeable on the Imsto cap too.  Oh also Imsto has the straightest spacebar I've seen on any set EVER.  Where as the spacebar from Olivetti is kind of warped.

CONCLUSION
So all things considered, Imsto PBT Set end up working better for me and it's the one I kept.  However I've only tried Cherry PBT very briefly before but it felt pretty nice.  So I'd probably suggest you get either Imsto or Cherry PBT over Cherry Double Shot.  But I also realize that things with keyboard is heavily influenced by personal preference.  So take our advice with an open mind lol.


EDIT:  Oh I think I might've liked the blue on Cherry Double Shot better.  I think it's closer to Sky Blue where as Imsto is more leaning towards Navy Blue.

[lightsout714]

Wow excellent review thank you very much.

[Hyde]

lol no problem.  Oh here are the pics I've posted before:

Imsto Thick PBT
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=31861.msg833747#msg833747

Cherry Double Shot Olivetti
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=44299.msg915486#msg915486

And this is the Cherry PBT Olivetti group buy
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=43104.msg876888#msg876888

[lightsout714]

Thanks for the info. Those cherry pbts look nice but at $150 shipped that's too much at this time.

Leaning towards the pbt a bit for longevity sake as far as shine goes. But I think I like the look of the cherries better.

First world problems.

[Lbeuol]

I picked up an IMSTO thick PBT set from the classified and can't wait to try PBTs for the first time. It wasn't anything close to $150 either so you should give it a shot lightsout714.

[UniClown]

COMPATABILITY
I have to say, Cherry profile is horrible for Costar stabilizer.  It grinds the stabilizer wire a little on certain keys because of very little clearance.  But somehow the Imsto set has less grinding than the Olivetti Double Shot.  So if you use a board with Costar stabilizer then you should beware of this.

Anyone else experience this issue?

[CPTBadAss]

COMPATABILITY
I have to say, Cherry profile is horrible for Costar stabilizer.  It grinds the stabilizer wire a little on certain keys because of very little clearance.  But somehow the Imsto set has less grinding than the Olivetti Double Shot.  So if you use a board with Costar stabilizer then you should beware of this.

Anyone else experience this issue?

I can test this later on my Filco if you're interested.

[lightsout714]

I picked up an IMSTO thick PBT set from the classified and can't wait to try PBTs for the first time. It wasn't anything close to $150 either so you should give it a shot lightsout714.

I actually owned one of the sets we're discussing here. You can see them in my avatar. I got some thick pbts in imstos first GB. I did like them. Brand new they are about 90 shipped. For the two tone. I don't really like any of the single color sets.

[CPTBadAss]

Cpt. How long have you had your gmks and are they shiny?

I've had my set for about a week. They're going on the Leopold this weekend. I've been playing with them for a review I've been working on. They're not shiny yet.

[lightsout714]

Oh I see. Lol they sure better not be shiny in a week.

[UniClown]

COMPATABILITY
I have to say, Cherry profile is horrible for Costar stabilizer.  It grinds the stabilizer wire a little on certain keys because of very little clearance.  But somehow the Imsto set has less grinding than the Olivetti Double Shot.  So if you use a board with Costar stabilizer then you should beware of this.

Anyone else experience this issue?

I can test this later on my Filco if you're interested.

Very interested. I don't want to get cherry profile keys just to have a horrible grinding experience.

[CPTBadAss]

COMPATABILITY
It grinds the stabilizer wire a little on certain keys because of very little clearance.  But somehow the Imsto set has less grinding than the Olivetti Double Shot.  So if you use a board with Costar stabilizer then you should beware of this.

Very interested. I don't want to get cherry profile keys just to have a horrible grinding experience.

As you can see I put a Red Alert (Thin SP ABS caps) backspace, Imsto Cherry replica enter (Thick PBT cap), and GMK Olivetti (Cherry doubleshots/thick ABS caps). I don't feel any grinding. Hyde are you sure you set your stabilizer correctly?

[Photekq]

Hyde you probably had the stabiliser insert the wrong way round, because the problem you described is exactly what it feels like when I have my inserts the wrong way round.

[WhiteFireDragon]

I have several sets of both (although only blanks for PBT). They both will feel different. For aesthetics, DS has sharper legends at the edges, and dyesub looks a tad dull in comparison. You said you care about shine, and ABS does shine fairly quick. You'll start to see wear (not actual shine yet) in only a few weeks, and it'll start to shine in a few months. One other thing that no one else mentioned, was that imsto's PBT caps will become loose as a goose after they've been on and off a few times. Cherry DS will retain the tight fitting longer. In the end, it comes down to which compromise you care about more.

If only there were thick PBT doubleshots....

Oh also Imsto has the straightest spacebar I've seen on any set EVER.  Where as the spacebar from Olivetti is kind of warped.

Are you sure about that? Most PBT spacebars are bent, including ALL of the imsto sets I have. All ABS cherry ones are straight, so I think you got that mixed around.

[lightsout714]

I have several sets of both (although only blanks for PBT). They both will feel different. For aesthetics, DS has sharper legends at the edges, and dyesub looks a tad dull in comparison. You said you care about shine, and ABS does shine fairly quick. You'll start to see wear (not actual shine yet) in only a few weeks, and it'll start to shine in a few months. One other thing that no one else mentioned, was that imsto's PBT caps will become loose as a goose after they've been on and off a few times. Cherry DS will retain the tight fitting longer. In the end, it comes down to which compromise you care about more.

If only there were thick PBT doubleshots....

Oh also Imsto has the straightest spacebar I've seen on any set EVER.  Where as the spacebar from Olivetti is kind of warped.

Are you sure about that? Most PBT spacebars are bent, including ALL of the imsto sets I have. All ABS cherry ones are straight, so I think you got that mixed around.

Thanks for the info. I didn't have my imsto set long enough to have them loosen but that does suck. SP's caps can be like that. The stabilizer clip just falls right out, annoying. Although I think I'd probably deal with it over shiny caps. Think I'm just going to go with the dyesubs this time around.

Definitely going to get some of the black DS's from GMK when they get them. Not super popular but I love them.

[WhiteFireDragon]

I meant that if you install the PBT once or twice and leave them on, loosened stems shouldn't be a problem. I'm talking about constantly taking them off and on again maybe more than 5 times, and they'll get loose, but not to the point that the stabilizer stem will just fall off. It's just a small thing that I've noticed, but worth mentioning in case that makes or breaks your decision.

[lightsout714]

No I'm with you I understand. Thanks for the input though.

[Photoelectric]

Use teflon tape (pipe tape) squares on top of the little stabilizer pieces before inserting them into your keycaps.  The stabilizers will fit tightly and will be easy to install onto the wires.

[lightsout714]

Great idea!

[Hyde]

Show Image

As you can see I put a Red Alert (Thin SP ABS caps) backspace, Imsto Cherry replica enter (Thick PBT cap), and GMK Olivetti (Cherry doubleshots/thick ABS caps). I don't feel any grinding. Hyde are you sure you set your stabilizer correctly?

Oh it only grinds when you nearly bottom out.  Like usually with Costar when you bottom out you feel a hard clack.  But in this case when you bottom out you'll feel a small resistance.  It's almost like using Cherry stabilizer lol.

It's also more noticeable on Enter and Right Shift key.

What happend is when the wire rotate 90 degrees as you press the key, the middle parts grinds the inside bottom wall of the enter key.  I had to shave it off a little to reduce the grinding.

Refer to this post:  http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=31861.msg827711#msg827711  and  http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=31861.msg836990#msg836990

Are you sure about that? Most PBT spacebars are bent, including ALL of the imsto sets I have. All ABS cherry ones are straight, so I think you got that mixed around.

Yeah I tried placing them on my table to check, all the imsto spacebar (I checked 3 sets) sits perfectly flat and the cherry double shot wobbles.  Unless my table surface is warped but otherwise I think imsto has fixed the warping issue on PBT.

It's actually one of the first things I checked after I got my PBT caps since I heard so much rumour about warped spacebar before hand.  But I do admit my imsto caps do feel looser on the stems compare to the cherry double shots.

[lightsout714]

I went with the imsto caps. I'm in love right now. Really like the feel and the big legends. I was using WASD caps man the legends are tiny compared to these. Don't know why I ever sold my first set but these are keepers. I love cherry caps but hate the shine of ABS. I think I'm am converted to pbt.

[Jocelyn]

Which set did you get?

I think I'm am converted to pbt.

[lightsout714]

Beige and white with blue legends. Only thing is my enter key is sticking with the costar stabs. It was happening with no other keys on so its not hitting anything. I saw a thread with the same issue the other day need to dig it up. The picks are actually old bit its the same exact setup except the new QFR has no branding.
I need to find someone to mod the stepped caps lock.

[Hyde]

Beige and white with blue legends. Only thing is my enter key is sticking with the costar stabs. It was happening with no other keys on so its not hitting anything. I saw a thread with the same issue the other day need to dig it up. The picks are actually old bit its the same exact setup except the new QFR has no branding.
I need to find someone to mod the stepped caps lock.

Congrats !!!  That was a good choice and the keycap is looking nicely on your board.

But yes I find really only enter key grinds (with imsto set, cherry set somehow almost all the big keys grinds).  Refer to the links I posted 3 posts up.  So what you want to do is take a small knife and shave off a little bit of the front side of the INSIDE of the keycap.  By front I mean the side that's close to you.

Refer to the pictures 3 posts up.  Good luck !!!

[lightsout714]

Oh great thanks I'll give it a look tomorrow.

[tp4tissue]

Luckily I went through the same situation as you very recently.  Considering the choice I'd say you like blue and therefore has good taste so I will say bravo my friend LOL.

Anyway here's my opinion on this matter:

SHORT VERSION

Go with Imsto PBT.  In my opinion they're better made and fit my Filco better (read long version for the reason).

LONG VERSION

PRICE
I bought my imsto PBT set through group buy for $75, where as the Olivetti ABS Double Shot I got it for $95 from Originative.  Shipping I think cost about the same.  But if you buy it without group buy I think the price should be similar between the two.

COLOR
Personally I bought the all white with blue letter Imsto dyesub (no grey modifier), and I actually prefer this over the Olivetti's setup (grey modifier) as I think all white looks more "modern".  Another to keep in mind is that Imsto's "white" is more like neutral light grey.  Olivetti's "white" is more like light grey with a tint of creamy yellow.  I find Imsto's set match better with my beige Filco and the Olivetti just look very "old".  In this case I prefer the Imsto set but look is "preference".

TYPING FEEL
Like people said Olivetti Double Shot is very smooth, where as the Imsto PBT has a very fine texture to it.  I find I'm ok with either one.  Though  initially I wasn't a fan of PBT as I find it too harsh since the plastic is very hard and when you bottom out it's a very hard thock.  And I thought I like ABS better because it's a bit more forgiving, but I think PBT is growing on me and I kind of don't mind it now.  I find the typing feel is not too noticeable on the 1x1 keys but with the large keys, you start to notice how solid the thick keys are compare to the typical thin keycaps.  Oh and keep in mind that Imsto uses a dash on the F and J and Cherry set use a scoop.  I find scoop throws me off and I much prefer the dash.

COMPATABILITY
I have to say, Cherry profile is horrible for Costar stabilizer.  It grinds the stabilizer wire a little on certain keys because of very little clearance.  But somehow the Imsto set has less grinding than the Olivetti Double Shot.  So if you use a board with Costar stabilizer then you should beware of this.

BUILD QUALITY
This might shock a lot of people but I find the Imsto set is more "refined".  Like I think the GMK tooling is made a long time ago and has been continuously used until today.  You can tell from the uneven keycap thickness.  For example the top and bottom wall is 1 thickness, and the left and right wall is another thickness.  Where as the Imsto cap have uniform thickness on any side walls.  Also the plastic "nub" on the top side of the keycap is smaller and less noticeable on the Imsto cap too.  Oh also Imsto has the straightest spacebar I've seen on any set EVER.  Where as the spacebar from Olivetti is kind of warped.

CONCLUSION
So all things considered, Imsto PBT Set end up working better for me and it's the one I kept.  However I've only tried Cherry PBT very briefly before but it felt pretty nice.  So I'd probably suggest you get either Imsto or Cherry PBT over Cherry Double Shot.  But I also realize that things with keyboard is heavily influenced by personal preference.  So take our advice with an open mind lol.


EDIT:  Oh I think I might've liked the blue on Cherry Double Shot better.  I think it's closer to Sky Blue where as Imsto is more leaning towards Navy Blue.

tp4 likes this

[Hyde]

tp4 likes this

Woot I got my tp4approval 

[lightsout714]

Have to say I'm in love with these PBT caps. Really like the feel. They are beautiful. Can't say enough about them. I love the roughish feel that they have. Definitely in for a couple more sets when my finances allow.

[josh]

Olivetti BSP Dye Sub. Just wait for it. Imsto isn't as great as cherry original PBT.

Isn't the price way hard on those? $110 is already pretty steep for me for a set of caps. Thats about my limit unless they were way special.

I have already talked to imsto, I said we want 7x spacebar and 1.5 keycaps... but he did't think there is a huge amount of need..so ...maybe he will make them some time but not recently

You pay almost as much for an imsto set depending on where you get it. But there is a pretty noticeable difference in feel between imsto and cherry pbt.

[Hypersphere]

I know it's rather late to reply to this post, but I did not want to start a new thread just to add my opinion about GMK Olivetti doubletshot ABS vs IMSTO thick PBT in particular or doubleshot ABS vs thick PBT in general.

I have been doing my own comparison of doubleshot ABS vs dye sub PBT keycaps. After sampling various sets of both kinds (including GMK Olivetti and IMSTO thick PBT) on a number of different keyboards, I agree with some of the other posters that some doubleshot ABS keycaps may look nicer than some dye sub PBT keycaps, but I find that the feel of PBT is better than that of ABS. To me, ABS feels sticky or clammy, whereas PBT feels dry, even after prolonged typing sessions.

In addition, I have found that the best combination of appearance and feel among all the keycaps I have tried is embodied in the dye sub PBT keycaps on the IBM Model M and IBM SSK.

 

[Photoelectric]

I am also a convert to PBT keycaps.  Ducky Shine caps are the only caps I prefer that are not PBT.  But otherwise, I like thin and thick PBT--depending on the switch type, because of the profile difference.  The dry powdery feel is very pleasant, and of course the resistance to shine is nice on the cosmetic side.  I still appreciate and want ABS caps when they are in nice-looking sets, but wish they were made of PBT instead.

I have tried thick GMK doubleshots on modifiers, SP's thin doubleshots, old WYSE caps, various Filco caps, Ducky Shine caps, thin PBT caps (OEM profile), a set of thick dye sub Vortex PBT caps (Cherry profile), zinc keycaps, and aluminum spacebars.

[Hypersphere]

I am also a convert to PBT keycaps.  Ducky Shine caps are the only caps I prefer that are not PBT.  But otherwise, I like thin and thick PBT--depending on the switch type, because of the profile difference.  The dry powdery feel is very pleasant, and of course the resistance to shine is nice on the cosmetic side.  I still appreciate and want ABS caps when they are in nice-looking sets, but wish they were made of PBT instead.

I have tried thick GMK doubleshots on modifiers, SP's thin doubleshots, old WYSE caps, various Filco caps, Ducky Shine caps, thin PBT caps (OEM profile), a set of thick dye sub Vortex PBT caps (Cherry profile), zinc keycaps, and aluminum spacebars.

Looks like you have also taken a long and circuitous path to arrive at the conclusion that PBT caps are the best for typing. It is strange, but I am still allowing myself to be seduced by the visual appeal of good double shots, knowing full well that I will not enjoy typing on them. Recently, I bought several old Wyse and Cherry keyboards for their double shot keycaps (and special keycap sizes) to decorate some new contemporary keyboards. I populated the new boards with the venerable caps, hoping that something might have magically changed and that the ABS would somehow feel right this time. Wrong!

Nevertheless, I also cannot remain satisfied with the appearance of the stock PBT keycaps on, say, my new Poker II or Leopold FC660M, because I still have to look at my keyboards at least some of the time as well as make physical contact with them while typing. Unfortunately, dye sub PBT keycaps are not nearly as plentiful as ABS keycaps with various modes of legend printing.

Looks like I will be compromising soon on some of the dye sub PBT sets that are currently available for my new keyboards in order to get something that looks perhaps reasonably okay but feels good for typing. Otherwise, I am fortunate to have my trusty old IBMs to fall back upon.

[jonathanyu]

Beige and white with blue legends. Only thing is my enter key is sticking with the costar stabs. It was happening with no other keys on so its not hitting anything. I saw a thread with the same issue the other day need to dig it up. The picks are actually old bit its the same exact setup except the new QFR has no branding.
I need to find someone to mod the stepped caps lock.

I have the exact same problem with the enter key. The first time I put my thick pbt enter Key on my filco, the enter key get stuck at the bottom after I press down. The costar stabilizer get stuck with the keycap. I use a knife to plane it a little bit, it feel better. But there it is still horrible when I press to the bottom. The final solution is put the keycap in some really hot water, and fix the shape of it.
And I didn't  get a non-straight space bar too. Actually, the space bar is the best large key.(I mean the key that have stabilizer)

Btw, where can I get a  GMK Olivetti set ?