Author Topic: Windows 11 (to be announced June 24, due in October)  (Read 6750 times)

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Offline Leslieann

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Windows 11 (to be announced June 24, due in October)
« on: Mon, 14 June 2021, 00:29:20 »
Windows 11?
But I thought Windows 10 was the last Windows, well it was according to Microsoft but plans change (and branding is hard and expensive).

Edit: I got a test copy last night, confirmed things now marked, yes with an image, strike when false.

So what's expected?
No one's actually put out anything (announcement is June 24) but we can probably make some predictions based on what was/is scheduled for Windows 10 and other ideas they've floated and where the market is headed. MS isn't really that innovative which makes them rather predictable.

The easy:
We know there is new icons coming, and that they plan to make a new push on the app store but those are planned for Win10, I suspect app store will be VERY prominent. There's also long (too long) talk of finally killing the old control panel . While I and probably you would like to say good riddance be careful what you wish for (Edit: not so bad!). There is quite a few areas of the new layout that is quite bad and being a control panel I suspect this is left to the lowest programmers because it just needs to function which is a low bar. Most of this was slated for Win10 they just hadn't been rolled it out, will they hit Win10 before Win11 is difficult to say but odds are they will be in Win11. (Edit: So far all pretty good)

The more difficult guess:
The most likely and the reason for the name change though is also the most radical, Windows is going web based and/or subscription based. It's long been rumored to be going subscription based but why web based? Because Chrome. The biggest threat to Windows in the last 30 years is not Mac, not Linux, not IOS or Android, it's Chrome. It runs on cheap devices and more importantly it's KILLING them in schools. What happens when those students are making buying decisions for companies? MS is close to losing an entire generation of Windows users and they need it to stop. This also ties those users to their app store which is like a built in monopoly, and this is one fight MS doesn't even have to fight, Apple is doing that for them. Going web based would allow them to put back the last missing bit of spyware, key logging. It was in Win10 early on but removed after France started asking questions.

My bet is they planned on a whole new name but creating a new brand from scratch is hard (and expensive) which is why the Galaxy name encompasses almost every Samsung phone and tablet instead of just the high end model, why we have a SUV based For Mustang. MS is equally bad if not worse Windows S, Windows X, Windows RT or better still just look at the Xbox naming system, It's pretty much a given they at least considered calling this Windows 365 but speculation points to it having a final name of Windows 11 based on a Youtube post put up by MS.

Edit: Starting to look like the UI is some similar to several newer OS, Gnome, Chrome etc... You will either love or HAAAATE the start menu changes. Mostly it looks like Windows 10X or a slight reskinned Win10. Why they needed a new OS name, who knows.


Other predictions:
Soft locked to the App store - Similar to current macs, it will heavily rely on the app store. It may or may not default to this but it will have a toggle.
Spyware - if web based it will allow them to re-enable the keylogger which is pretty much the only thing missing.
Possibly Linux kernel based - A very long shot but more likely on a web based version.

Edit: Mostly Win10 (10X) all over again with a slightly different look.


Will it be good?
Generally every other Windows version is good, personally I think this is a poor metric but people like to use it. XP was good, Vista was bad, 7 was good, 8 was bad, but do we count 8.1? The other problem is the very nature of Win11, if it's web based it will be something very different so it could be a home run or a complete and utter flop depending on who you ask, the one is you will have even less control of your computer. Personally, I want it to be good and I'm sure a lot of people will love it but there is almost zero chance this will be good for end users as a whole or even the industry, maybe even the planet to be honest. Extreme? How many laptops on the market are disposable and irreparable as of now? If this is web based and all your data is online you have even less reason to repair an older system and stores will just encourage you more and more to just replace it, just as Apple does now. Like Apple, MS is fighting right to repair legislation and this would fall right into that trap. After all, why fix it when you can get a shiny new computer for only a little more, and it comes with a new Windows license. Want to switch to Mac, sorry all your data is in the cloud so it won't be an easy move. So again, will it be good? Absolutely not, but it won't be obvious to most right away because all they will see is shiny.

Edit, I have always said Win10 was good, it was just MS policies that make it bad, this is no different.



More info:
Limits on remote access, not sure if unique to this)
Lots of arbitration clauses, again not sure if unique.
No mention of subscription, unlikely given it;s just Windows 10X.

Nice new installer, faster, simpler, nicer look.
Looks really nice, probably best out of box looking OS in a long time.

New start menu is love or hate. Apps are now an extra click with a button at top right of the window. MS is determined to bury it. Once clicked it's as disorganized as Win10. Sorry, i just don;t get or like that setup. It's just jumbled. You can divorce start from window lists and both can be left or centered, it's a bit buggy however at the moment. Many seem to dislike the centered start, which moves as apps are loaded, many like the consistent location and ease of access in the corner.

More Bing integration.
Setup/control panel simplified with removal of almost all of the old control panel. Looks and functions well except when you stumble onto an old panel from the old one, not all are reskinned but overall an improvement with less things buried so you can;t find them. Like show extensions in file explorer, which is actually defaulted to on(!) if you can believe it. Will that stay, we can hope, it's a security issue MS has always ignored.

Note: Nvidia also announced no more Win 7 or 8 drivers as of October this year, if you want to game you WILL be needing Win10 or 11 or switch to Linux.
« Last Edit: Wed, 16 June 2021, 21:26:03 by Leslieann »
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Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Windows 11 (to be announced June 24, due in October)
« Reply #1 on: Mon, 14 June 2021, 00:48:14 »
Prolly something around a custom cpu.  There's no way windows can continue to compete in the mobile space as is.   Apple's m1 and ios is a knock out.

Offline Findecanor

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Re: Windows 11 (to be announced June 24, due in October)
« Reply #2 on: Mon, 14 June 2021, 01:10:47 »
I'm expecting a total ****-show, in typical Microsoft fashion. Forced subscription-based Windows RT, or something like it.
Something that nobody wants.
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Offline noisyturtle

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Re: Windows 11 (to be announced June 24, due in October)
« Reply #3 on: Mon, 14 June 2021, 01:24:50 »
Since Win10 has taken to holding my pc hostage to force updates I don't want I'll be switching to Linux

Offline fanpeople

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Re: Windows 11 (to be announced June 24, due in October)
« Reply #4 on: Mon, 14 June 2021, 02:36:43 »
Just the other day I was thinking about how long it has been since windows has tried to shill a new OS. Well now I know.

If it is subscription based, I am out. If I am forced to deal with an app store daily, I am out.

Then again I was literally looking at the new macs thinking about over paying for one simply because it comes in purple and I do **** all gaming now. Potentially, looking at being locked into 4 years of intensive tertiary education so only need a word processor and basic internet access. At least it would look pretty. Oh **** what happened to me.


Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Windows 11 (to be announced June 24, due in October)
« Reply #5 on: Mon, 14 June 2021, 07:26:53 »
Potentially, looking at being locked into 4 years of intensive tertiary education so only need a word processor and basic internet access. At least it would look pretty. Oh **** what happened to me.

Kekekekeke, fanpeeps gon' be aruond all them tertiary education females.

Offline fanpeople

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Re: Windows 11 (to be announced June 24, due in October)
« Reply #6 on: Mon, 14 June 2021, 07:47:46 »

Kekekekeke, fanpeeps gon' be aruond all them tertiary education females.


Yeah unfortunately these arn't the party every weekend types.

Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Windows 11 (to be announced June 24, due in October)
« Reply #7 on: Mon, 14 June 2021, 07:51:14 »

If it is subscription based, I am out. If I am forced to deal with an app store daily, I am out.


Windows has tended to support versions after they are superseded, for some reasonable amount of time at least.

How long do you think that the "last" Windows version will be supported and used - realistically?

The installed base is obviously vast.
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Offline Leslieann

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Re: Windows 11 (to be announced June 24, due in October)
« Reply #8 on: Mon, 14 June 2021, 07:58:31 »
There's no way windows can continue to compete in the mobile space as is.   Apple's m1 and ios is a knock out.
Doesn't matter how good it is, it's the default.
If you only knew how hard it was to get companies to spend more than even $300 on laptops and desktops you would understand why Mac has zero chance in those offices and that was just ones that sit on a desk, they switched to laptops because they were "cheaper than desktops".  It took 10 years to up-sell an owner from Emachines to a modest core I5 with 1300 resolution. That doesn't even get into the hassles of printers, scanners and various software suites, there's still A TON of industry specific websites that require Internet Explorer to function. No Edge, no Chrome or Chrome Edge and hell no to FIrefox, ONLY I.E. runs them.

Nor does it cover the training necessary to switch an office over. I spent 5 years getting an office to switch to a file server so at least they could say organized rather than all the data spread out over shared drives systems across 6 different systems. Getting them to agree to it took 5 years. I never got them off that before they broke the backup system and decided to switch to a Google Drive, which would have been a lot easier had they finally put all their data on the file server, but they hadn't. At this point things are spread across 3 systems, plus Google drive and the only backup is what's on Google and the Quickbooks which is backed up on two thumbdrives like it always has.

There is zero chance either of those offices will switch to anything Apple.
You have as much luck switching a photography shop to PC as you do switching an office over to Apple products, it just won't happen because the walls of the garden are just too tall for them to overcome even when they want to.

I'm expecting a total ****-show, in typical Microsoft fashion. Forced subscription-based Windows RT, or something like it.
Something that nobody wants.
There's long been rumors that if they did there would be a traditional license as well.
However many have speculated a free ad based version as well, which I guess you could almost say that's sort of how Win10 is currently done.


Then again I was literally looking at the new macs thinking about over paying for one simply because it comes in purple and I do **** all gaming now. Potentially, looking at being locked into 4 years of intensive tertiary education so only need a word processor and basic internet access. At least it would look pretty. Oh **** what happened to me.
They do look tasty and I do like the idea of ARM.
I'd want to see how some specific apps run as well as a couple specific WINE apps before I committed. I would also wait for M2, 16 or 32 cores, plus 32gigs ram in a long battery life laptop? Yes please!

More and more is geared toward the web, at this point we really only need a beefy GPU for a few things as even a laptop can manage 6 cores and 16 gigs of ram these days and power even the most hungry GPU. In fact Chrome on Windows is more resource intensive than almost any AAA game title. So yeah, it;s not surprising you can get away without a gpu and some of the new IGPUs are really not bad even then.
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Offline Leslieann

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Re: Windows 11 (to be announced June 24, due in October)
« Reply #9 on: Mon, 14 June 2021, 08:20:45 »
How long do you think that the "last" Windows version will be supported and used - realistically?

The installed base is obviously vast.

How long will Win10 last?
The license says 10 years but I give it 2 years tops, in fact I give it 50/50 odds than Win7 outlives Win10 which is also going to plummet on users.

Why? Because Win10 has forced updates.
That OS is going to put you on Win11 probably by early next year whether you like it or not and when Win10 user base plummets like the Hindenburg so will support from vendors. That OS will be dead in no time because MS has full control over almost every installation of it.

Don't like it, you'll delay the update? Ha, MS can bypass that. You disabled updates entirely, great... What will you do when hardware and software vendors run away from it like it has a terminal case of Covid because everyone else left the platform? Go find drivers for Windows 8 on the AMD website, it's DEAD. You can get Win7 drivers, but no Windows 8 drivers because it has less  users than Linux and they even gave users somewhat of a chance to stop that update. Win10 is going to killed off and butchered faster than you can imagine.
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Offline ddrfraser1

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Re: Windows 11 (to be announced June 24, due in October)
« Reply #10 on: Mon, 14 June 2021, 08:25:21 »
I would have switched to Linux a long time ago if it weren't for Office.

Offline Leslieann

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Re: Windows 11 (to be announced June 24, due in October)
« Reply #11 on: Mon, 14 June 2021, 08:30:25 »
I would have switched to Linux a long time ago if it weren't for Office.
Older versions can run just fine in WINE and it wouldn't surprise me if they have newer versions running in Lutris.

You can always use seamless on virtualbox.

Edit: nope.
« Last Edit: Mon, 14 June 2021, 08:36:49 by Leslieann »
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Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Windows 11 (to be announced June 24, due in October)
« Reply #12 on: Mon, 14 June 2021, 08:43:04 »

That OS is going to put you on Win11 probably by early next year whether you like it or not

Win10 is going to killed off and butchered faster than you can imagine.


I have a current desktop with a legit Windows 10 full retail disc all purchased new in 2020, a laptop legitimately updated from 7 OEM, and a couple of semi-retired "backup" desktops updated from legit 7 and 8 retail discs. One of them is now dedicated to the TV and I do connect it to the interwebs from time to time.

Does this "subscription model" mean that I will have to start paying a subscription fee even if MS incarcerates me against my will? And pay a separate fee for each box?
 

« Last Edit: Mon, 14 June 2021, 10:27:05 by fohat.digs »
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Offline rowdy

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Re: Windows 11 (to be announced June 24, due in October)
« Reply #13 on: Mon, 14 June 2021, 15:47:56 »
I'm wondering what will happen when buying a new PC with a subscription-based Win11 installed.

You pay for the PC - would you have to sign up for a subscription for the OS there and then?  Or maybe get a month or two of "free" use before it locks up and/or starts nagging you to pay to keep it up to date.  MS could frighten a lot of non-technical users - "If you don't pay this subscription your system will not be updated and your private data will be at risk."

So maybe there will be a pay-once option plus a subscription, like with Office 365 (there is still a pay-once and install version of that, right?).

But there again I use a Mac at home and a Mac at work.  I have a Win10 PC but strictly only for games.
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Offline noahf

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Re: Windows 11 (to be announced June 24, due in October)
« Reply #14 on: Mon, 14 June 2021, 19:20:10 »
I heard windows 11 will introduce the feature that allows it to connect to your Covid vaccine chip. It won't be able to control the chip but you can get certain info from it. If you want logs though, you got to be a top tier business customer.

Im not sure I agree with the subscription model. It would be hard to go from a license fee to a subscriber fee on something used across so many platforms. Chrome and IOS are both free, windows is not. But paying monthly for windows would be a big move towards free os's.

More realistically I would see a tighter integration with the App Store + increased adds and a cheaper home version. Im not sure how worried they are about the "generation gap" of users using netbooks. You wouldn't see that at enterprise level workforces and thats where the real money is.

Offline Sintpinty

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Re: Windows 11 (to be announced June 24, due in October)
« Reply #15 on: Mon, 14 June 2021, 21:49:44 »
Windows 11?
But I thought Windows 10 was the last Windows, well it was according to Microsoft but plans change (and branding is hard and expensive).

So what's expected?
No one's actually put out anything (announcement is June 24) but we can probably make some predictions based on what was/is scheduled for Windows 10 and other ideas they've floated and where the market is headed. MS isn't really that innovative which makes them rather predictable.

The easy:
We know there is new icons coming, and that they plan to make a new push on the app store but those are planned for Win10, I suspect app store will be VERY prominent. There's also long (too long) talk of finally killing the old control panel. While I and probably you would like to say good riddance be careful what you wish for. There is quite a few areas of the new layout that is quite bad and being a control panel I suspect this is left to the lowest programmers because it just needs to function which is a low bar. Most of this was slated for Win10 they just hadn't been rolled it out, will they hit Win10 before Win11 is difficult to say but odds are they will be in Win11.

The more difficult guess:
The most likely and the reason for the name change though is also the most radical, Windows is going web based and/or subscription based. It's long been rumored to be going subscription based but why web based? Because Chrome. The biggest threat to Windows in the last 30 years is not Mac, not Linux, not IOS or Android, it's Chrome. It runs on cheap devices and more importantly it's KILLING them in schools. What happens when those students are making buying decisions for companies? MS is close to losing an entire generation of Windows users and they need it to stop. This also ties those users to their app store which is like a built in monopoly, and this is one fight MS doesn't even have to fight, Apple is doing that for them. Going web based would allow them to put back the last missing bit of spyware, key logging. It was in Win10 early on but removed after France started asking questions.

My bet is they planned on a whole new name but creating a new brand from scratch is hard (and expensive) which is why the Galaxy name encompasses almost every Samsung phone and tablet instead of just the high end model, why we have a SUV based For Mustang. MS is equally bad if not worse Windows S, Windows X, Windows RT or better still just look at the Xbox naming system, It's pretty much a given they at least considered calling this Windows 365 but speculation points to it having a final name of Windows 11 based on a Youtube post put up by MS.


Other predictions:
Soft locked to the App store - Similar to current macs, it will heavily rely on the app store. It may or may not default to this but it will have a toggle.
Spyware - if web based it will allow them to re-enable the keylogger which is pretty much the only thing missing.
Possibly Linux kernel based - A very long shot but more likely on a web based version.

Will it be good?
Generally every other Windows version is good, personally I think this is a poor metric but people like to use it. XP was good, Vista was bad, 7 was good, 8 was bad, but do we count 8.1? The other problem is the very nature of Win11, if it's web based it will be something very different so it could be a home run or a complete and utter flop depending on who you ask, the one is you will have even less control of your computer. Personally, I want it to be good and I'm sure a lot of people will love it but there is almost zero chance this will be good for end users as a whole or even the industry, maybe even the planet to be honest. Extreme? How many laptops on the market are disposable and irreparable as of now? If this is web based and all your data is online you have even less reason to repair an older system and stores will just encourage you more and more to just replace it, just as Apple does now. Like Apple, MS is fighting right to repair legislation and this would fall right into that trap. After all, why fix it when you can get a shiny new computer for only a little more, and it comes with a new Windows license. Want to switch to Mac, sorry all your data is in the cloud so it won't be an easy move. So again, will it be good? Absolutely not, but it won't be obvious to most right away because all they will see is shiny.

forced apps and ads i prob won't be upgrading until i absolutely have to

Offline Leslieann

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Re: Windows 11 (to be announced June 24, due in October)
« Reply #16 on: Tue, 15 June 2021, 00:47:22 »
forced apps and ads i prob won't be upgrading until i absolutely have to
Better block updates now.

Not later.
Based on what they've done in the past, they will start slipping in bits of code so even if you block them now, it will wake up something later and pull in the update.


I'm wondering what will happen when buying a new PC with a subscription-based Win11 installed.

You pay for the PC - would you have to sign up for a subscription for the OS there and then?  Or maybe get a month or two of "free" use before it locks up and/or starts nagging you to pay to keep it up to date.  MS could frighten a lot of non-technical users - "If you don't pay this subscription your system will not be updated and your private data will be at risk."

When it expires I would imagine it will default to a nag screen similar to Win10 because locking out a user from all of their data is not a good policy and could lead to lawsuits. Imagine your whole office being down because of it, you're basically being held for ransom. The subscription will mostly work for people building their own systems, at least at first, over time it wouldn't be too surprising to see major vendors offer it as an option and eventually as the default but not right away. They would want to build trust in the system and wait for the bottom to fall out on prices before they do it.


I could also be wrong, it could go full web based and be entirely free to compete with Chrome*, but given Microsoft's track record I just don't see them doing it. There's too many old Microsoft people on the board and those guys only understand one thing, take every penny you can from anyone you can. It's old thinking, I'd even say it may have been why they failed in tablets and phones, they just can't let go of the idea of nickle and dime-ing vendors and users as much as possible. Have they learned and decided to change, I guess we find out later this month.

*They could also do as they have in the past where it's free on smaller screens.
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Offline chadrezzar

  • Posts: 16
Re: Windows 11 (to be announced June 24, due in October)
« Reply #17 on: Tue, 15 June 2021, 15:06:52 »
Just the other day I was thinking about how long it has been since windows has tried to shill a new OS. Well now I know.

If it is subscription based, I am out. If I am forced to deal with an app store daily, I am out.

Then again I was literally looking at the new macs thinking about over paying for one simply because it comes in purple and I do **** all gaming now. Potentially, looking at being locked into 4 years of intensive tertiary education so only need a word processor and basic internet access. At least it would look pretty. Oh **** what happened to me.

Honestly it's all so tiresome... At this point I'm waiting for me to open notepad one day and be given a popup about how I'm not paying my notepad subscr.  whilst spamming me with 2003 style popup ads with sounds playing in 15 different tabs :mad:

Windows 10 already had(has) a ridiculous amount of telemetry build in which was a pain in the ass to disable... Then there are the simple things you could get to in a couple clicks at most on windows 7 being hidden in 15 different unintuitive menu's...
I'm not looking forward to see what kind of cluster**** they've cooked up this time around.
« Last Edit: Tue, 15 June 2021, 15:11:41 by chadrezzar »

Offline Darthbaggins

  • Posts: 476
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Re: Windows 11 (to be announced June 24, due in October)
« Reply #18 on: Tue, 15 June 2021, 15:21:14 »
If it weren't for a mass of games and the Adobe suite, I would be on a Linux Debian based distro.  But until Adobe and Bungie (and many other game launchers/studios get their head out of their nether regions) I will be sitting on w10 for now.  Also I guess once it's rolled out I will have to get used to it due to the company I work with and wonder how well this will work for schools and other entities that we mass deploy for.  I know for our Azure based imaging program it would simplify things to a degree or make things worse.

 bkrownd:"Those damned rubber chiclet keys are the devil's nipples."   >:D


Offline rowdy

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Offline MajorKoos

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Re: Windows 11 (to be announced June 24, due in October)
« Reply #20 on: Tue, 15 June 2021, 17:49:27 »
Every time someone mentions a new version of windows GeekHack be like

Offline kizuna

  • Posts: 25
Re: Windows 11 (to be announced June 24, due in October)
« Reply #21 on: Tue, 15 June 2021, 20:03:02 »
wow for ms going this route. I remember the days when you bought you os and owned it with updates for free and when you bought a video games you owned it and got updates for free.

When are the masses gonna wake up see that we are being forced into these subscriptions for every single type of software now.

Offline Leslieann

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Re: Windows 11 (to be announced June 24, due in October)
« Reply #22 on: Tue, 15 June 2021, 23:08:10 »
Every time someone mentions a new version of windows GeekHack be like
I said at launch Win10 was a good OS, it was just MS policies screwing it up.

I'll make the same prediction here, it will be a great OS, web based or not, it's going to be how MS controls and manages it that will be the problem.
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Offline mylordie

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Re: Windows 11 (to be announced June 24, due in October)
« Reply #23 on: Wed, 16 June 2021, 04:27:39 »
Windows 10 was released in 2015 and I started to use it only in 2018. THe same will be with Win 11. Tons of crashes and freezes initially are guaranteed. So why do we need to endure all developer mistakes to enjoy usual OS. I will definitely install it in 2023. Well, I'm interested in Android emulators actually. Will they add some of them on built-in basis? It is a great option as seems to me. Modded games and apps are welcome too. I will really enjoy playing Dragon city installed through third-party mod apk, for example. Hope it would be some kind of independent emulator with no connection to official sources. Not every PC is available for playing cool games, so such an approach can solve this issue. 
« Last Edit: Thu, 17 June 2021, 05:08:39 by mylordie »

Offline Leslieann

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Re: Windows 11 (to be announced June 24, due in October)
« Reply #24 on: Wed, 16 June 2021, 08:05:29 »
Windows 10 was released in 2015 and I started to use it only in 2018. THe same will be with Win 11. Tons of crashes and freezes initially are guaranteed. So why do we need to endure all developer mistakes to enjoy usual OS. I will definitely install it in 2023.
It's starting to look more like just a skinned Win10, so probably not.

Win10 has always actually been quite stable in beta and release, and it should, it was heavily based on Win8.1, it was just as stable as Win7 in beta, the only reason it's had such news worthy screw ups is because of how Win10 handles updates. On older systems you updated at your convenience, this meant it went in small phases and as such it gave time for word to get out when there was a problem, experts could watch news feeds and know a problem was coming and avoid it. With Win10 there is very little you can do to avoid a bad update, sure you can delay updates but if MS decides it's not worth pausing and fixing that update all you can do is sit waiting around for it to finally reach you and then either remove and disable it and hope they don't simply re-issue it again (THANKS!) or hope they immediately send out a secondary patch (saw one system boot loop for 3 days then self correct).

Imagine being the poor S.O.B. who maintains several offices with 80+ systems without volume licensing when a bad patch rolls out...  Or you go to make a minor change on a customer's system and it spends 45 minutes installing updates on reboot that the customer kept putting off (which often fixes the problem you were called out for, the restart, not the update, still going to charge you). There is never a 5 minute fix anymore. Ever. It's going to be 45 minutes at least and if they have 5 systems you can bet that what should be 15 minute job just became 3+hours because even if you think you will be smart and stagger them expecting it to take only an single hour it's going to take 3. It's just how Win10 is.  It's because of things like this that industry people rail against it while the average person says it runs great. Say what you want but from my perspective it hasn't gotten any better since launch it's just that techs and media are tired of screaming about it and nothing changing. We have a few more tools to use, but the underlying problems remain.


If MS operates how they did with Win10, they probably already pre-seeded the Win11 install script several months ago under the guise of a security patch so even if you disable updates now you're probably too late by several months and you will be fighting to keep Win11 off your system. My guess is that a year after launch non-corporate Win10 user base will be close to single digit market share, which is effectively dead in the Windows ecosystem. Also if Microsoft returns to old formulas, by end of 2023 we will see Windows 12, so no point in using 11 at that point, heck, they could even adopt a fast cycle like web browsers and we could see Win12 by end of next year and and Win13 by 2023. Why would you switch to 11 then?

You have far less choice on what Windows you use than you think.
Software and hardware limitations, real or imposed, really do limit your options, for example try doing VR in Win7. Sorry. Want a new AMD GPU, no Win 8 drivers exist for the RX series, Win7 or Win10 only and since no VR in Win7 that leaves only Win10.  Want a new Intel or AMD CPU, Win10 only for several generations now. There's workarounds for them but it's limited and it gets more and more difficult as the hardware ages and software doesn't. Even finding the tools to do this gets more difficult as many companies removed the software, Gigabyte used to offer one that made it easy, it's gone.
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Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Windows 11 (to be announced June 24, due in October)
« Reply #25 on: Wed, 16 June 2021, 08:51:05 »

It's starting to look more like just a skinned Win10

there is very little you can do to avoid a bad update, sure you can delay updates

If MS operates how they did with Win10, they probably already pre-seeded the Win11 install script several months ago

by end of 2023 we will see Windows 12


So, when I foolishly imagined that when MS said that Windows 10 would be the last version of Windows that meant that there would not be a Windows 11, I was misunderstanding the word "last" - OK.

Regardless of the provenance or future trajectory for Windows, the real issue for me is whether I will have to start paying. Will there be an announcement followed by intense screaming and crying (with "x" percentage of the base peeling off and going elsewhere), and then the majority of users will just send in credit card numbers so that they can get dinged for $10 per month?

And since I like and very regularly use desktop icons and the Control Panel, and I keep all my important files on local disks rather than sending them off into the cloud, MS has already written me off as a customer?

PS - "the cloud is secure" - when (not if) we get the next major solar flare (the one just before the Civil War melted telegraph wires and exploded terminals!) it could take months or years, not days or weeks, to get planet-wide communications back to "normal"
"We're playing for real here."
- Joe Biden 2021-09-10

Offline Leslieann

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Re: Windows 11 (to be announced June 24, due in October)
« Reply #26 on: Wed, 16 June 2021, 21:32:49 »
So, when I foolishly imagined that when MS said that Windows 10 would be the last version of Windows that meant that there would not be a Windows 11, I was misunderstanding the word "last" - OK.
You didn't imagine it, they said it.
"I am altering the deal. Pray I don't alter it any further. "


And since I like and very regularly use desktop icons and the Control Panel, and I keep all my important files on local disks rather than sending them off into the cloud, MS has already written me off as a customer?

This has tighter integration of web services and they have killed all but a few remnants of the old control panel. Fear not, they have fixed a lot of the "setup" issues. It's better than Win10 in this aspect, still not as nice as the old style, but better than Win10.
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Offline Leslieann

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Re: Windows 11 (to be announced June 24, due in October)
« Reply #27 on: Wed, 16 June 2021, 21:38:36 »
Going back to what I said about having a choice in your OS...
Nvidia announced yesterday that as of October they will discontinue Win7 and Windows 8 drivers.

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Offline Leslieann

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Re: Windows 11 (to be announced June 24, due in October)
« Reply #28 on: Wed, 16 June 2021, 21:58:02 »
All of this was integrated into the first post except my last comment about using it.


I got a test copy last night.

Not web based
and the license has no mention of subscription, but it also does not rule it out.
Mostly seems a reskin and new start menu, mostly based on Windows X, why they needed a new name, who knows. Especially odd since they claimed this was the last Windows.

In the T.O.S.
Limits on remote access, not sure if unique to this.
Lots of arbitration clauses, again not sure if unique.

The U.I.
Nice new installer, faster, simpler, nicer look.
Looks really nice, probably best out of box looking OS in a long time.

New start menu is love or hate.
Apps are now an extra click with a button at top right of the window. MS is determined to bury it. Once clicked it's as disorganized as Win10. Sorry, i just don't get or like that setup. It's just jumbled. You can divorce start from window lists and both can be left or centered, it's a bit buggy however at the moment. Many seem to dislike the centered start (a la Mac), which moves as apps are loaded, many like the consistent location and ease of access in the corner. If you like a traditional start menu you will hate it, if you like Chrome, KDE (default) or Gnome you will like it.

More Bing integration.
Setup/control panel simplified with removal of almost all of the old control panel. Looks and functions well except when you stumble onto an old panel from the old one, not all are reskinned but overall an improvement with less things buried so you can;t find them. Like show extensions in file explorer, which is actually defaulted to on(!) if you can believe it. Will that stay, we can hope, it's a security issue MS has always ignored.

App store has not changed much, but is expected to and play a bigger part.
I also wouldn't put it past them for more nag screens when you change default apps.


Will I use it?
Just like Win10, absolutely not. I can appreciate the changes and I'll have to know it and how to fix it, but I won't be switching to it. Windows is easy and able to do just about anythin, that doesn't mean efficient. These days I prefer efficiency, privacy and safety.  None of which is Windows these days.
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Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Windows 11 (to be announced June 24, due in October)
« Reply #29 on: Thu, 17 June 2021, 08:20:37 »

Apps are now an extra click with a button at top right of the window. MS is determined to bury it.

You can divorce start from window lists

If you like a traditional start menu you will hate it

More Bing integration.

Setup/control panel simplified with removal of almost all of the old control panel.

Like show extensions in file explorer, which is actually defaulted to on(!) if you can believe it.


It sounds like they read my mind and answered with the middle finger.

Pretty much everything I regularly do involving programs and web sites is with desktop icons (many associated with keyboard shortcuts) and everything having to do with "housekeeping" on the computer itself is done through the Control Panel. I deeply resent the extra mouse-clicking involved with Start menus, and other "buried" zones because I prefer to minimize mouse use whenever possible.

I do love File Explorer and use it many times every day, and file extensions are essential.

Bing? When I install Windows my first priority is to bury Cortana and Bing as deep as I can dig the hole.
"We're playing for real here."
- Joe Biden 2021-09-10

Offline Darthbaggins

  • Posts: 476
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Re: Windows 11 (to be announced June 24, due in October)
« Reply #30 on: Thu, 17 June 2021, 10:13:52 »
Windows 10 was released in 2015 and I started to use it only in 2018. THe same will be with Win 11. Tons of crashes and freezes initially are guaranteed. So why do we need to endure all developer mistakes to enjoy usual OS. I will definitely install it in 2023.
It's starting to look more like just a skinned Win10, so probably not.

Win10 has always actually been quite stable in beta and release, and it should, it was heavily based on Win8.1, it was just as stable as Win7 in beta, the only reason it's had such news worthy screw ups is because of how Win10 handles updates. On older systems you updated at your convenience, this meant it went in small phases and as such it gave time for word to get out when there was a problem, experts could watch news feeds and know a problem was coming and avoid it. With Win10 there is very little you can do to avoid a bad update, sure you can delay updates but if MS decides it's not worth pausing and fixing that update all you can do is sit waiting around for it to finally reach you and then either remove and disable it and hope they don't simply re-issue it again (THANKS!) or hope they immediately send out a secondary patch (saw one system boot loop for 3 days then self correct).

Imagine being the poor S.O.B. who maintains several offices with 80+ systems without volume licensing when a bad patch rolls out...  Or you go to make a minor change on a customer's system and it spends 45 minutes installing updates on reboot that the customer kept putting off (which often fixes the problem you were called out for, the restart, not the update, still going to charge you). There is never a 5 minute fix anymore. Ever. It's going to be 45 minutes at least and if they have 5 systems you can bet that what should be 15 minute job just became 3+hours because even if you think you will be smart and stagger them expecting it to take only an single hour it's going to take 3. It's just how Win10 is.  It's because of things like this that industry people rail against it while the average person says it runs great. Say what you want but from my perspective it hasn't gotten any better since launch it's just that techs and media are tired of screaming about it and nothing changing. We have a few more tools to use, but the underlying problems remain.


If MS operates how they did with Win10, they probably already pre-seeded the Win11 install script several months ago under the guise of a security patch so even if you disable updates now you're probably too late by several months and you will be fighting to keep Win11 off your system. My guess is that a year after launch non-corporate Win10 user base will be close to single digit market share, which is effectively dead in the Windows ecosystem. Also if Microsoft returns to old formulas, by end of 2023 we will see Windows 12, so no point in using 11 at that point, heck, they could even adopt a fast cycle like web browsers and we could see Win12 by end of next year and and Win13 by 2023. Why would you switch to 11 then?

You have far less choice on what Windows you use than you think.
Software and hardware limitations, real or imposed, really do limit your options, for example try doing VR in Win7. Sorry. Want a new AMD GPU, no Win 8 drivers exist for the RX series, Win7 or Win10 only and since no VR in Win7 that leaves only Win10.  Want a new Intel or AMD CPU, Win10 only for several generations now. There's workarounds for them but it's limited and it gets more and more difficult as the hardware ages and software doesn't. Even finding the tools to do this gets more difficult as many companies removed the software, Gigabyte used to offer one that made it easy, it's gone.

Actually the w11 has already shown it's signs in the 21H1 updates that MSFT started rolling out the past couple of months.  11 will just be a re-skin of 10 but I know they are adding the Win-Get command to Command Prompt/Terminal for those of us that need it for mass deployment of machines and scripts.

   I personally have had minimal issues w/ 10 but again when there is one, it has made sure to be a big issue and sometimes is a wipe and re-install or a command based rebuild (normally it's due to a corrupt or bad update package).  I really do miss the ability to pick and choose my updates.

 bkrownd:"Those damned rubber chiclet keys are the devil's nipples."   >:D


Offline Leslieann

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Re: Windows 11 (to be announced June 24, due in October)
« Reply #31 on: Fri, 18 June 2021, 00:06:53 »
It sounds like they read my mind and answered with the middle finger.
I'm not sure if we were just the minority or they ignored us but every forum i saw discussing Win10 was seemingly the same thing, every suggestion was either ignored or they did the opposite, so no surprise there.

Remember they made start difficult then did a survey to see how often it was used, noticed it dropped then used that to justify burying it further. Well yeah we use it less, you made it a pain in the neck!

Bing? When I install Windows my first priority is to bury Cortana and Bing as deep as I can dig the hole.
And MS doesn't like when you do that so now they will force it on you even more. Edge will always run in background feeding your weathrr and widgets from Bing.

The beatings will continue until moral improves!!!
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Offline Leslieann

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Re: Windows 11 (to be announced June 24, due in October)
« Reply #32 on: Fri, 18 June 2021, 00:10:36 »
Actually the w11 has already shown it's signs in the 21H1 updates that MSFT started rolling out the past couple of months.  11 will just be a re-skin of 10 but I know they are adding the Win-Get command to Command Prompt/Terminal for those of us that need it for mass deployment of machines and scripts.

I have the leaked copy, as released is lacks those features.
They are expected to appear later and may already be in the latest updates but they were not in the leaked copy as shipped and I'm not going to allow a leaked copy found through dubious methods to run outside a sandbox, not with the current state of Windows malware. There's never been a more perfect opportunity for inserting malware.
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Offline rowdy

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Re: Windows 11 (to be announced June 24, due in October)
« Reply #33 on: Fri, 18 June 2021, 18:39:00 »
https://www.osnews.com/story/133564/windows-11-with-new-ux-confirmed-in-a-leak/

Quote
If this is the “next generation of Windows”, Microsoft is delusional.

From the screenshots in The Verge article, it looks more macOS-like to me - "dock" icons in the middle of the screen and rounded corners are two of the first things that strike a macOS user.  I remember when Windows 95 came out and it looked very Mac-like with its recycle bin and long filenames.

https://www.theverge.com/2021/6/15/22535123/microsoft-windows-11-leak-screenshots-start-menu
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

Ị̸͚̯̲́ͤ̃͑̇̑ͯ̊̂͟ͅs̞͚̩͉̝̪̲͗͊ͪ̽̚̚ ̭̦͖͕̑́͌ͬͩ͟t̷̻͔̙̑͟h̹̠̼͋ͤ͋i̤̜̣̦̱̫͈͔̞ͭ͑ͥ̌̔s̬͔͎̍̈ͥͫ̐̾ͣ̔̇͘ͅ ̩̘̼͆̐̕e̞̰͓̲̺̎͐̏ͬ̓̅̾͠͝ͅv̶̰͕̱̞̥̍ͣ̄̕e͕͙͖̬̜͓͎̤̊ͭ͐͝ṇ̰͎̱̤̟̭ͫ͌̌͢͠ͅ ̳̥̦ͮ̐ͤ̎̊ͣ͡͡n̤̜̙̺̪̒͜e̶̻̦̿ͮ̂̀c̝̘̝͖̠̖͐ͨͪ̈̐͌ͩ̀e̷̥͇̋ͦs̢̡̤ͤͤͯ͜s͈̠̉̑͘a̱͕̗͖̳̥̺ͬͦͧ͆̌̑͡r̶̟̖̈͘ỷ̮̦̩͙͔ͫ̾ͬ̔ͬͮ̌?̵̘͇͔͙ͥͪ͞ͅ

Offline fanpeople

  • Posts: 969
Re: Windows 11 (to be announced June 24, due in October)
« Reply #34 on: Fri, 18 June 2021, 20:07:47 »
https://www.osnews.com/story/133564/windows-11-with-new-ux-confirmed-in-a-leak/

Quote
If this is the “next generation of Windows”, Microsoft is delusional.

From the screenshots in The Verge article, it looks more macOS-like to me - "dock" icons in the middle of the screen and rounded corners are two of the first things that strike a macOS user.  I remember when Windows 95 came out and it looked very Mac-like with its recycle bin and long filenames.

https://www.theverge.com/2021/6/15/22535123/microsoft-windows-11-leak-screenshots-start-menu

This is Windows sticking to tradition. Wait for Windows 12 6 months after the release of 11, it will be magical.


Offline rowdy

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Re: Windows 11 (to be announced June 24, due in October)
« Reply #35 on: Sat, 19 June 2021, 20:33:47 »
https://www.osnews.com/story/133564/windows-11-with-new-ux-confirmed-in-a-leak/

Quote
If this is the “next generation of Windows”, Microsoft is delusional.

From the screenshots in The Verge article, it looks more macOS-like to me - "dock" icons in the middle of the screen and rounded corners are two of the first things that strike a macOS user.  I remember when Windows 95 came out and it looked very Mac-like with its recycle bin and long filenames.

https://www.theverge.com/2021/6/15/22535123/microsoft-windows-11-leak-screenshots-start-menu

This is Windows sticking to tradition. Wait for Windows 12 6 months after the release of 11, it will be magical.



Microsfot sticking with the "every second release" mantra :))
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

Ị̸͚̯̲́ͤ̃͑̇̑ͯ̊̂͟ͅs̞͚̩͉̝̪̲͗͊ͪ̽̚̚ ̭̦͖͕̑́͌ͬͩ͟t̷̻͔̙̑͟h̹̠̼͋ͤ͋i̤̜̣̦̱̫͈͔̞ͭ͑ͥ̌̔s̬͔͎̍̈ͥͫ̐̾ͣ̔̇͘ͅ ̩̘̼͆̐̕e̞̰͓̲̺̎͐̏ͬ̓̅̾͠͝ͅv̶̰͕̱̞̥̍ͣ̄̕e͕͙͖̬̜͓͎̤̊ͭ͐͝ṇ̰͎̱̤̟̭ͫ͌̌͢͠ͅ ̳̥̦ͮ̐ͤ̎̊ͣ͡͡n̤̜̙̺̪̒͜e̶̻̦̿ͮ̂̀c̝̘̝͖̠̖͐ͨͪ̈̐͌ͩ̀e̷̥͇̋ͦs̢̡̤ͤͤͯ͜s͈̠̉̑͘a̱͕̗͖̳̥̺ͬͦͧ͆̌̑͡r̶̟̖̈͘ỷ̮̦̩͙͔ͫ̾ͬ̔ͬͮ̌?̵̘͇͔͙ͥͪ͞ͅ

Offline atarione

  • Posts: 141
Re: Windows 11 (to be announced June 24, due in October)
« Reply #36 on: Mon, 21 June 2021, 22:53:22 »
Meh....  running a vm of 21996.1  If it is indeed windows 11 rather than a win 10 update... i don't really see why exactly... I'm pretty sure once you activate it (which I'm not doing) you can move the start menu to the left where it belongs... but I still see a lot of Hodgepodge mash up of old windows interfaces  with newer settings stuff and overlap / annoying having to open one or the other to do what you want..  the UI is still a cluster at least in this build...    In fairness I have used it for about exactly 20minutes.. so not very extensively  .... why ??? I don't see the point so far...

271021-0

« Last Edit: Tue, 22 June 2021, 13:28:55 by atarione »

Offline Darthbaggins

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Re: Windows 11 (to be announced June 24, due in October)
« Reply #37 on: Wed, 23 June 2021, 13:39:49 »
wonder if they added new win key short cuts with 11 (10+), but from what I've been seeing in my preview builds of 21h1 most of 11 just looks like visual changes that they are starting to implement already w/in the current update stream (more than likely trying to get users used to it ahead of time). 

 bkrownd:"Those damned rubber chiclet keys are the devil's nipples."   >:D



Offline Leslieann

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Re: Windows 11 (to be announced June 24, due in October)
« Reply #39 on: Wed, 23 June 2021, 23:43:10 »
If it is indeed windows 11 rather than a win 10 update... i don't really see why exactly...

It's Win11, the installer and system info confirms as much (as does the video MS made of startup sounds dragged out for 11 minutes) but it is heavily based on Win10.
It started off as Win10X, which was meant for a dual screen, keyboard-less laptop (pics are here) intended to debut at end of this year but that project flopped in reviewer testing (I'm shocked!). How do you snatch success in the face of defeat, re-brand! If you can't sell a new laptop design to create OS sales, rebrand it as Win11 and sell it as a new OS.

We may not see a subscription or web based OS this time round, but I still think MS has something in the works that goes down that path, if it was supposed to be the last before they switched to this new non-Windows OS it would explain "Win10 is the last Windows" comment when it was said. There's no way MS is so short sighted to think they wouldn't need a new OS at some point, and if it was the last, why label it with "10", why not just call it Windows or Windows Perpetual or something, once all other Windows were extinct the number means nothing, it can just be Windows.

So regardless of what this license holds I still think they have something else coming and I suspect we will see it with a year or two.
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Offline Leslieann

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Re: Windows 11 (to be announced June 24, due in October)
« Reply #40 on: Fri, 25 June 2021, 10:08:58 »
WOW
Something missing in the win11 coverage is system requirements... You need 64bit, 4gigs of ram(!) and 64gigs drive space, but you will also require(!) an internet connection and MS account to setup Home Edition or switch out of S mode (which is only supported in Home), and for all instances you will need Secure Boot and TPM 1.2 hardware and 2.0 software or better. Secure boot is a joke, a hassle but most anything made in a decade supports it.

TPM 2.0 however is a BIG problem, according to Microsoft you will need AT LEAST Ryzen 2000 or Intel 7th Gen in order to run Win11.]
List of supported AMD processors
List of supported Intel processors
This may or may not be the entirety, it may only be what they tested (or tested so far), but this is the approved list far and even if this grows it's still cutting off a massive amount of older systems and I'm sure hardware makers and e-waste recyclers are salivating at this. BTW, if your system doesn't work they merely give you a meaningless incompatible error message.


Other major changes that Linus Tech Tips dug out...
Start menu can't be resized
Start menu no longer had support for folders and groups
Taskbar is now locked to bottom of the screen
Live tiles are gone, they want you to use the news and widgets
Pinned apps and system tray apps will or may not migrate when you upgrade but are at least still supported.
Tablet mode is gone, a new system will auto switch modes automatically.
The complete list is here.

Anyone else getting Win 8.0 flashbacks?
No worries, just keep using Win10 right? Except that they plan to retire Win10 in 2025 and I'm willing to bet Win10 support is dried up well before that. Well, I was, until I saw these new hardware requirements, there's going to be a ton of stranded users. Microsoft just went full Apple on you and from the sounds of it they're going to be pushing this hard, especially if you game. You're going to be on Win11, hardware not supported? Oh well, buy a new system you pleb!

Granted, I get it, by the time Win10 support ends the newest unsupported cpus will be around 9 years old but those systems are perfectly capable of running this system because other than TPM support there's almost zero difference between a 6th gen Intel cpu  and a 7th gen. We can run Win10 on 800mhz original Atom cpus, this is not a performance issue it's about DRM. You thought Win10 allowed MS to own your system, welcome to Windows 10 version 2.0 where you have even less control.
« Last Edit: Fri, 25 June 2021, 10:11:01 by Leslieann »
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Offline suicidal_orange

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Re: Windows 11 (to be announced June 24, due in October)
« Reply #41 on: Fri, 25 June 2021, 11:18:59 »
Thanks for the update, says all I need to know to not even be curious to see it for myself.
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Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Windows 11 (to be announced June 24, due in October)
« Reply #42 on: Fri, 25 June 2021, 11:47:56 »

I'm sure hardware makers and e-waste recyclers are salivating at this.


Hardware makers of course, but won't this kill the market for US discards in the third world?
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Offline suicidal_orange

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Re: Windows 11 (to be announced June 24, due in October)
« Reply #43 on: Fri, 25 June 2021, 12:23:59 »

I'm sure hardware makers and e-waste recyclers are salivating at this.


Hardware makers of course, but won't this kill the market for US discards in the third world?
Fast hardware for them to run Linux on sounds good to me, if there's plenty available they should actually get a good deal too (not that I'm saying someone must be exploiting them but they probably are)
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Offline noisyturtle

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Re: Windows 11 (to be announced June 24, due in October)
« Reply #44 on: Fri, 25 June 2021, 13:59:06 »
Wonder how MS will hold hostage and force 10 users to switch over. Send robots with guns to each home? Shut down integral apps or services? Make comparability intentionally worse? Can't wait to find out.

Offline Darthbaggins

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Re: Windows 11 (to be announced June 24, due in October)
« Reply #45 on: Fri, 25 June 2021, 15:10:40 »
I was ticked to see that TPM 2.0 requirement, those of us on HEDT hardware (Intel's x99/x299 or TR40/x) are not compatible w/ w11 due to this requirement.  I'm not downgrading my hardware for an OS compatibility - so they lost me for their testing pool.  I have a feeling they will eventually drop this but that would be for the more workstation/enterprise focused desktops.  I would fully cross over to Linux, but again game developers refuse to support it (a majority of them, not all).

Considering Linux (mainly a modded Ubuntu 19.10 or 18.** variant) I think I now have a use for my old 960 EVO 500GB, might just toss a copy on it and let 'er rip.
« Last Edit: Fri, 25 June 2021, 15:19:10 by Darthbaggins »

 bkrownd:"Those damned rubber chiclet keys are the devil's nipples."   >:D


Offline rowdy

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Re: Windows 11 (to be announced June 24, due in October)
« Reply #46 on: Fri, 25 June 2021, 19:59:29 »
Windows 11 Supported Intel Processors
06/24/2021
9 minutes to read


This is idiocy taken to a new level.

If Microsfot are going to make a relatively large percentage of old systems incompatible, why not just drop all the legacy crap out of the operating system and support 10 for a bit longer.  That way people who do not want to or cannot afford to upgrade can continue to use 10, and everyone else can embrace the brave new 11 world without backwards compatibility, which is more like what Apple does.
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

Ị̸͚̯̲́ͤ̃͑̇̑ͯ̊̂͟ͅs̞͚̩͉̝̪̲͗͊ͪ̽̚̚ ̭̦͖͕̑́͌ͬͩ͟t̷̻͔̙̑͟h̹̠̼͋ͤ͋i̤̜̣̦̱̫͈͔̞ͭ͑ͥ̌̔s̬͔͎̍̈ͥͫ̐̾ͣ̔̇͘ͅ ̩̘̼͆̐̕e̞̰͓̲̺̎͐̏ͬ̓̅̾͠͝ͅv̶̰͕̱̞̥̍ͣ̄̕e͕͙͖̬̜͓͎̤̊ͭ͐͝ṇ̰͎̱̤̟̭ͫ͌̌͢͠ͅ ̳̥̦ͮ̐ͤ̎̊ͣ͡͡n̤̜̙̺̪̒͜e̶̻̦̿ͮ̂̀c̝̘̝͖̠̖͐ͨͪ̈̐͌ͩ̀e̷̥͇̋ͦs̢̡̤ͤͤͯ͜s͈̠̉̑͘a̱͕̗͖̳̥̺ͬͦͧ͆̌̑͡r̶̟̖̈͘ỷ̮̦̩͙͔ͫ̾ͬ̔ͬͮ̌?̵̘͇͔͙ͥͪ͞ͅ

Offline fanpeople

  • Posts: 969
Re: Windows 11 (to be announced June 24, due in October)
« Reply #47 on: Fri, 25 June 2021, 20:29:26 »
Windows 11 Supported Intel Processors

Well turns out I won't be migrating to Windows 11, but not due to choice apparently.

Think I will buy that overpriced purple mac just because.

Offline Leslieann

  • * Elevated Elder
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 3973
Re: Windows 11 (to be announced June 24, due in October)
« Reply #48 on: Fri, 25 June 2021, 20:41:16 »
Wonder how MS will hold hostage and force 10 users to switch over. Send robots with guns to each home? Shut down integral apps or services? Make comparability intentionally worse? Can't wait to find out.
Same way they did it with Win8.1 and Win10.
If your system can't be upgraded they will offer you $100 towards a new system in the Microsoft store.
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Offline Leslieann

  • * Elevated Elder
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  • Posts: 3973
Re: Windows 11 (to be announced June 24, due in October)
« Reply #49 on: Fri, 25 June 2021, 21:46:01 »

TL/DR at the bottom regarded expanded compatibility... More do qualify.
------------------------------------------------------------------

So I decided to do some digging and see if anything else would qualify.
What a rabbit hole that was.

TPM is on the board, it's a separate chip not controlled by AMD or Intel and there's no guarantee your motherboard has it, and they manufacturer may not even disclose if it does, where it is or what version. Laptops very often do have them and disclose this but on a desktop, good luck. I started off looking at Intel 6th gen to see if anything was mentioned and found nothing. The TPM page on Wikipedia discusses when and how standards were set but nothing regarding implementation. Intel ARK says nothing about it. So I decided to check on motherboards, first stop, my motherboard, it's a Gigabyte 370 hosting an 8700k, so it technically qualifies according to Microsoft. Gigabyte doesn't mention TPM in the specs, Intel lists nothing in the specs, and this is a problem. If no one says it, how will you know your system actually qualifies?

So I decided to check my laptop, I know they tend to list that spec right? Well they used to, not anymore. I've been using a Lenovo T450 lately, which is a 5th gen Intel (I sold off my Macbook). Checking the Lenovo website and I can't find it listed at all and I know it has a TPM chip. A bit more digging reveals a TPM chip driver, but no listing for what version it has. A bunch more digging shows the TPM 1.2 dates back as far as 2017 for Lenovo, unfortunately that means it could be an early 8th gen laptop they referred to, or it can mean it's a 6th gen, but even if it is 1.2 that doesn't mean it has a 2.0 driver available. And if I can't find it after nearly an hour of digging (for all of this), good luck average users finding out this info. Now it's possible if it just needs a driver Lenovo could crank one out, but I can guarantee you Asus will NOT backport a driver for this, I already dealt with recycling a really nice laptop because of Asus not backporting a minor update to allow Windows 8.1 to run on a 1st gen Core series. Asus does NOT care one bit about older systems, I experienced issues with Sony doing similar years ago as well. If it's not a corporate supplier count on nothing.


This is a mess.
I suspect Microsoft initially planned on this being a laptop OS, specifically for new laptops with very limited back portability and when that idea morphed they just left that requirement in place completely ignoring the realities of users. Normally I would say don't sweat it, they will roll this back for release and many have stated as much but with MS posting that compatibility list you can probably kiss that idea goodbye.


More info TL/DR
So after all that mess, just as I went to post this I decided to do something different, I fired up my laptop (Lenovo T450 / 5th gen I5) and went into bios, where, thankfully in there Lenovo disclosed what it had in it, a 1.2 TPM chip with 2.0 software. Doing more digging I found that the T440 (4th gen Intel) I have also has a similar setup, so at least in theory they can both run Win11, however the 1st gen Asus ROG gaming laptop doesn't mention a TPM chip at all in bios or the website and best i can tell it lacks it entirely. This means at least some older systems, mostly corporate grade laptops and OEM workstations, should be able to run Win11. Ironically, older Apples all included it, Apple used it to lock MacOs to their hardware.

I still think this whole thing is one big mess and going to generate a lot of e-waste.
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