Author Topic: Just got my thick PBT Caps but they're just in a plastic bag! Help! (Read 7563 times)

Keytrun · « **on:** Mon, 18 November 2013, 16:15:31 »

I just got these in the mail : http://www.ebay.com/itm/330950281295 but they were just thrown together in a plastic bag! I have no idea which one goes where. Also, a bunch of them have little marks on them, like a small dent on one of the sides in the shape of a circle. Any ideas?

Tym · « **Reply #1 on:** Mon, 18 November 2013, 16:17:55 »

You can lay them all down, get the mods pretty easily. IMO, get your mods off, compare the mods in the bag to your mods work out which is which then plonk them on.

Next take your 1,q,a,z keys as these are the 4 different rows. Next line up the keys which match the profile of these keys and you have each of the rows sorted and ready to go.

Keytrun · « **Reply #2 on:** Mon, 18 November 2013, 16:19:00 »

Mods? What?

Also, my current keyboard is OEM, these caps are cherry so they won't match.

Also what about the f key row? the arrow keys? ins/home/ page up/del/end / page down/ print screen / scr lock / pause?

I honestly thought they would come on a board layed out in the proper order since they're blanks..

Also, I'm assuming that little plastic circle nick in each key signifies that its the back of the key?

Photekq · « **Reply #3 on:** Mon, 18 November 2013, 16:21:17 »

Mods = modifiers : e.g ctrl, alt, enter (all keys that aren't alphabet/numerics)

Could you provide photos of the marks?

rowdy · « **Reply #4 on:** Mon, 18 November 2013, 16:21:50 »

Mods = modifiers - the 1.25x width Alt, Ctrl etc. They should be the shortest keycaps.

The highest ones go at the top of the keyboard - Esc, F1 .. F12

Everything else should be graduated between. When you have them laid out on a flat surface, it will soon be pretty obvious if you have one in the wrong place.

MsYutai · « **Reply #5 on:** Mon, 18 November 2013, 16:21:57 »

I think sometimes the key has the row number engraved on the underside (R1, R2, etc). Then you can refer to this layout to put the keys in the correct place:

Keytrun · « **Reply #6 on:** Mon, 18 November 2013, 16:25:40 »

Nothing under the key. So I need to measure all of the keys to fit them on that diagram? Or at least the 4 different ones and then match accordingly...
http://i.imgur.com/JutvPUE.jpg is the dot on the back of the keys.

EDIT: According to your graphic, Yutai, all of the letter, number and f keys are the exact same size? I thought that WASNT the case?

absyrd · « **Reply #7 on:** Mon, 18 November 2013, 16:28:33 »

The "dots on the back of keys" are sprue marks. Created by part of the injection process. Some keys have them more prominent than others.

Keytrun · « **Reply #8 on:** Mon, 18 November 2013, 16:33:56 »

I'm extremely confused. Why would http://www.ebay.com/itm/231021228608 say that that key is for r4 is all the rows have the same size keys?

Edit - I have a lot of these two different size keys: http://i.imgur.com/VaZBwHV.jpg Also, does that dot go on the back or front? As in shout the dot be on the front of the key or back when I place it?

t2russo · « **Reply #9 on:** Mon, 18 November 2013, 16:42:54 »

Dot goes to the back. The R# in the chart shows which match each other in height. A keyboard has a natural curve to the profile of the keys, so what you need to do is identify the large keys (backspace, enter, shifts, tab, etc) and then use the chart and find enough of the small 1x1 keys to complete the row. The top two rows of the keyboard are the same profile, and the bottom two match each other, so it's easy to start from there and fill it in, as the keys go from taller (R4) to shorter (R1)

I had also not realized until just now that both of my IMSTO sets don't have identifiers on the underside, I'd never checked since mine are printed.

Photekq · « **Reply #10 on:** Mon, 18 November 2013, 16:54:54 »

Does this help? Ignore A and F, you don't have any keys that correspond to those profiles.

B = R1
C = R2
D = R3
E = R4

Keytrun · « **Reply #11 on:** Mon, 18 November 2013, 16:55:01 »

What do you mean they go from taller to shorter? According to that chart all of the keys except the modifiers are the exact same size. I have a decent amount of keys in 3 different sizes. http://i.imgur.com/1RerZgF.jpg are the 3 sizes I have that aren't modifier keys. I'll count exactly how many I have of each, but its really difficult as the two smaller ones are so similar. This is REALLY frustrating. I'm really dissapointed that I wasn't sent these keys in a chart of some kind. And all of the information in this thread is confusing and conflicting. The chart shows one thing, but my keys and what some of you are showing say something else. Please help!

Photekq · « **Reply #12 on:** Mon, 18 November 2013, 16:58:36 »

Okay, so the chart MsYutai posted shows the sizes of the keys. Use that, along with the picture of the side profiles of each keycap row I posted, and you should be able to arrange them correctly.

Keytrun · « **Reply #13 on:** Mon, 18 November 2013, 17:01:12 »

I figured out the r4 keys. There are 36 of them - they're the largest keys, correct?

Photekq · « **Reply #14 on:** Mon, 18 November 2013, 17:02:33 »

Quote from: Keytrun on Mon, 18 November 2013, 17:01:12

I figured out the r4 keys. There are 36 of them - they're the largest keys, correct?

Correct. Now just try and match up the other rows.

Also, I edited my post so that it corresponds to the R1, R2, R3, R4 in the photo msyutai posted. Hope this helps.

Keytrun · « **Reply #15 on:** Mon, 18 November 2013, 17:16:53 »

I'm really confused. Minus modifiers, I only have 3 different size keys. I have the big r4s, and then what i assume is r3 and r2. Can someone tell me how many i should have of each ( r) for a full board? I'm pretty sure he sent me enough keys for a full board, even though i'm only going to be putting them on a tkl.

So biggest to smallest is r4/3/1/2?

Binge · « **Reply #16 on:** Mon, 18 November 2013, 17:31:55 »

Quote from: Keytrun on Mon, 18 November 2013, 17:16:53

I'm really confused. Minus modifiers, I only have 3 different size keys. I have the big r4s, and then what i assume is r3 and r2. Can someone tell me how many i should have of each ( r) for a full board? I'm pretty sure he sent me enough keys for a full board, even though i'm only going to be putting them on a tkl.

So biggest to smallest is r4/3/1/2?

omfg so hard to explain >,..,< ... not all profiles are created equally. Sometimes the first two and last two rows will be the same profile. so there it goes

R3
R3
R2
R1
R1

If we are talking F-rows-- then you have Function Keys and Number Keys which should all be the most tall.

Keytrun · « **Reply #17 on:** Mon, 18 November 2013, 17:34:10 »

I understand that! The problem is figuring out which key is which r! R4 is easy to distinguish but the rest are really hard to figure out which is which. Especially r1 / 2! I can't tell them apart!

Photekq · « **Reply #18 on:** Mon, 18 November 2013, 17:35:23 »

Please look at this post it shows diagrams of the sides profiles of the various rows....

Binge · « **Reply #19 on:** Mon, 18 November 2013, 17:35:24 »

Quote from: Keytrun on Mon, 18 November 2013, 17:34:10

I understand that! The problem is figuring out which key is which r! R4 is easy to distinguish but the rest are really hard to figure out which is which. Especially r1 / 2! I can't tell them apart!

So put them all on.... and use your senses to figure out if the profile is correct

Dubsgalore · « **Reply #20 on:** Mon, 18 November 2013, 17:40:15 »

I remember my first time putting on blanks...they were black too...

It's really not hard, Photekq and Binge are giving you good advice and diagrams

) I wish I had that when I was doing it

Keytrun · « **Reply #21 on:** Mon, 18 November 2013, 17:50:07 »

Yea, I'm sure once I get my filco and start putting them on it'll be easier. I'm just laying them out on my desk and figuring out the difference between r3/2/1 is a nightmare.

Also, for these keys here: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Protoss-PBT-R4-Cherry-MX-Keycap-/331043011457?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4d13b37b81 will they fade if I use them? Or should I put them all the way to the right side where they won't be used?

Okay, I've got r4 and r1 really easily figure out. R4 is big and r1 has like, this noticeable raised front. Now I've just got to stack every r2 and 3 up against one another to figure out which is which lol

EDIT: Okay! I got everything organized (I think). I have the correct amount of r1s, 3's and 4's but it seems like I have way more r2's than I need! Unless I'm missing something. I haven't really looked at the modifier keys yet. Maybe I have more r2's because some keyboards use r2's for more than what's on the wasd diagram linked here? Not sure. According to that diagram, I should have 14 r2s (excluding the modifier keys) for a full sized board. I have 23! A little confused, but I guess extras can't hurt ey?

Keytrun · « **Reply #22 on:** Tue, 19 November 2013, 05:09:35 »

Well I got impatient and decided to put all my new caps on my blackwidow. I thought my filco would be coming sooner since I ordered it the same day I ordered the caps, but the tracking number finally popped up and said I won't be getting it until next monday! I decided I couldn't wait that long and put my new thick caps on. Holy crap these are night and day. They feel SO much different than the **** plastic razer put on this thing. I swear I was scared to break the razer caps just taking them off they're so thin. The only issue with these caps on the razer is the bottom row (space bar alt / control) isn't compatible. So it feels really odd pressing this space bar with all of my other keys being a different material. Thanks a ton for the help!

Edit: At least I can't put in the spacebar according to this link here http://www.wasdkeyboards.com/keycap-compatibility (down @ blackwidow). All of the other keys are obvious that I can't change on that row but my space bar looks like its the same size. Maybe I'll try it in the morning.

goobus · « **Reply #23 on:** Tue, 19 November 2013, 06:22:22 »

Some general advice for you.. If you lay them on your desk correctly you should see a slight U shape that is created by the tops of the keys, i.e. The second row from the bottom should be sloping away from the bottom of the keyboard.

Another easy way to figure out the rows is to compare them to the mods. So the right shift would have the same profile as the other keys in that row. If you look at it from the side this is quite apparent. Same goes for tab and the backstroke key, as well as caps lock and enter. Hope you can figure it out!

terran5992 · « **Reply #24 on:** Tue, 19 November 2013, 07:24:27 »

Quote from: MsYutai on Mon, 18 November 2013, 16:21:57

I think sometimes the key has the row number engraved on the underside (R1, R2, etc). Then you can refer to this layout to put the keys in the correct place:

Show Image

Thiss ^^

Keytrun · « **Reply #25 on:** Tue, 19 November 2013, 08:41:35 »

I got it all figured out last night. I figured out that R1 had this weird, defining slope. R4 was just considerably bigger than everything else, r3 vs r2 was sort of an issue but I got it all figured out.

One thing I've noticed now, which I just need to get used to I guess is that the keys actually look like they're different sizes on the board. With the stock keys on the blackwidow, while they were on the board, I couldn't tell that they were different sizes in the slightest. Is that just a cherry profile thing? Or maybe because they're blanks?

Also - not sure if its a thick pbt thing but these keys are a little stiffer to press. It'll be okay because I'm putting them on browns in a few days, but its definetly something I've noticed. Granted these caps are much heavier than the thin plastic razer put on the board, but I guess I just never assumed that heavier caps = harder to press.

strafe · « **Reply #26 on:** Tue, 19 November 2013, 16:42:53 »

For a Typical Full Size Keyboard, refer to the keyboard layout at the top of this thread:

Row 4 - 36 1x Keys (Top 2 Rows)
Row 3 - 18 1x Keys
Row 2 - 14 1x Keys (Some of them have Nubs, Dots, Etc)
Row 1 - 18 1x Keys (Bottom 2 Rows)

Compare the slope of the modifiers to the 1x keys to figure out the correct rows for the Row 1 and Row 3 keys.

kenmai9 · « **Reply #27 on:** Tue, 19 November 2013, 16:45:01 »

After all that effort.. please post a picture of the final result haha

rowdy · « **Reply #28 on:** Tue, 19 November 2013, 17:12:43 »

And maybe put a small dot underneath the keycaps for row 1, 2 dots for row 2 and so on in case you take them all off at some stage.

mashby · « **Reply #29 on:** Tue, 19 November 2013, 17:45:53 »

Blanks can really be hard to sort out if you don't have another set to compare them to. Good job getting it all figured out.

Should you ever take them off, I'd recommend putting each row in a separate zip-lock back to help you keep it straight. That's what I recently did with mine when I swapped out some alphas. This way you don't have to go through that pain and anguish again.

)

rowdy · « **Reply #30 on:** Tue, 19 November 2013, 17:57:48 »

Quote from: mashby on Tue, 19 November 2013, 17:45:53

Blanks can really be hard to sort out if you don't have another set to compare them to. Good job getting it all figured out.

Should you ever take them off, I'd recommend putting each row in a separate zip-lock back to help you keep it straight. That's what I recently did with mine when I swapped out some alphas. This way you don't have to go through that pain and anguish again. )

Or this, which would not require to mark the keycaps. But do write on the bags what row they came from

Keytrun · « **Reply #31 on:** Tue, 19 November 2013, 18:10:18 »

Quote from: rowdy on Tue, 19 November 2013, 17:12:43

And maybe put a small dot underneath the keycaps for row 1, 2 dots for row 2 and so on in case you take them all off at some stage.

Here is a picture of the caps on my Razer.

I didn't bother doing the number pad, just because I don't really use it and some of the keys were just too hard to pry off with my hands. I'm pretty sure my Filco will come with a cap puller so in a few days I'll be transferring these caps to the Filco. I just got impatient and wanted to use them

rowdy · « **Reply #32 on:** Tue, 19 November 2013, 18:15:47 »

Quote from: Keytrun on Tue, 19 November 2013, 18:10:18

Quote from: rowdy on Tue, 19 November 2013, 17:12:43
And maybe put a small dot underneath the keycaps for row 1, 2 dots for row 2 and so on in case you take them all off at some stage.

Here is a picture of the caps on my Razer.
Show Image

I didn't bother doing the number pad, just because I don't really use it and some of the keys were just too hard to pry off with my hands. I'm pretty sure my Filco will come with a cap puller so in a few days I'll be transferring these caps to the Filco. I just got impatient and wanted to use them :)

Makes a difference to the look and feel, doesn't it! :)

Keytrun · « **Reply #33 on:** Tue, 19 November 2013, 18:21:55 »

Quote from: rowdy on Tue, 19 November 2013, 18:15:47

Quote from: Keytrun on Tue, 19 November 2013, 18:10:18
Quote from: rowdy on Tue, 19 November 2013, 17:12:43
And maybe put a small dot underneath the keycaps for row 1, 2 dots for row 2 and so on in case you take them all off at some stage.

Here is a picture of the caps on my Razer.
Show Image

I didn't bother doing the number pad, just because I don't really use it and some of the keys were just too hard to pry off with my hands. I'm pretty sure my Filco will come with a cap puller so in a few days I'll be transferring these caps to the Filco. I just got impatient and wanted to use them :)

Makes a difference to the look and feel, doesn't it! :)

They feel amazing. The razer caps are so thin in comparison. I dented one just by pulling it off the board. They're literally paper thin. The surface of these are really smooth and gripping.

tbc · « **Reply #34 on:** Tue, 19 November 2013, 18:25:10 »

can't believe you did a whole board with just your fingers lol. not even the paperclips?

kenmai9 · « **Reply #35 on:** Tue, 19 November 2013, 18:47:25 »

Quote from: tbc on Tue, 19 November 2013, 18:25:10

can't believe you did a whole board with just your fingers lol. not even the paperclips?

Srsly this man must have spider fingers

Keytrun · « **Reply #36 on:** Tue, 19 November 2013, 20:48:49 »

Took me most of the night but I did it with just fingers. Sad thing is I have nerve issues and an extremely weak right hand. Even more fun.

rowdy · « **Reply #37 on:** Tue, 19 November 2013, 22:11:50 »

Quote from: Keytrun on Tue, 19 November 2013, 20:48:49

Took me most of the night but I did it with just fingers. Sad thing is I have nerve issues and an extremely weak right hand. Even more fun.

y u no use keycap puller?

Suggestion: get one before you try to remove these keycaps!

tp4tissue · « **Reply #38 on:** Tue, 19 November 2013, 22:22:54 »

WOW.. this thread is so n00b.. how did I miss it...

keytrun is crazy...

nice to meet thee!

Keytrun · « **Reply #39 on:** Tue, 19 November 2013, 23:54:09 »

The Filco comes with one, so I'll use that to pull these back off, as well as the caps that come stock on the Filco.

MsYutai · « **Reply #40 on:** Wed, 20 November 2013, 17:24:43 »

Quote from: Keytrun on Tue, 19 November 2013, 18:10:18

Quote from: rowdy on Tue, 19 November 2013, 17:12:43
And maybe put a small dot underneath the keycaps for row 1, 2 dots for row 2 and so on in case you take them all off at some stage.

Here is a picture of the caps on my Razer.
Show Image

I didn't bother doing the number pad, just because I don't really use it and some of the keys were just too hard to pry off with my hands. I'm pretty sure my Filco will come with a cap puller so in a few days I'll be transferring these caps to the Filco. I just got impatient and wanted to use them :)

That looks sweet!! You did that all with your fingers? You can make a keycap puller outta a paperclip you know? XD

Keytrun · « **Reply #41 on:** Wed, 20 November 2013, 21:21:52 »

I honestly didn't think the backlight would shine through at all. I'm honestly not sure if I would have ordered a different board even if I knew that, though. When I ordered my Filco a few days ago I didn't know that the ducky shine 3 had better than standard cherry stabilizers, and the WASD Code is sold out for months. Those are the only two mainstream backlit TKLS that I'd be interested in. I'll get a ducky shine 3 soon enough and put another set of blue caps on it and it'll look just as sweet

. Unfortunately I'll likely be getting rid of the Blackwidow when I get my filco in a few days. Its honestly just not very well made and I'd much rather have that money and put it towards another board (or accessories for my Filco). My real ideal board is something like a korean custom with a black aluminum case (a really nice one) and LEDs. I think some website will be selling thick PBT black caps soon (according to that group buy thread), but even if they don't I'll have a few sets of black blank caps to mix in with my blue ones from the GB. I think adding some black caps to these blue ones ontop of a white backlight would look really sweet. I wish I could get some other color thick PBT, but I honestly haven't seen any.

rowdy · « **Reply #42 on:** Wed, 20 November 2013, 21:24:40 »

Quote from: Keytrun on Wed, 20 November 2013, 21:21:52

I honestly didn't think the backlight would shine through at all. I'm honestly not sure if I would have ordered a different board even if I knew that, though. When I ordered my Filco a few days ago I didn't know that the ducky shine 3 had better than standard cherry stabilizers, and the WASD Code is sold out for months. Those are the only two mainstream backlit TKLS that I'd be interested in. I'll get a ducky shine 3 soon enough and put another set of blue caps on it and it'll look just as sweet . Unfortunately I'll likely be getting rid of the Blackwidow when I get my filco in a few days. Its honestly just not very well made and I'd much rather have that money and put it towards another board (or accessories for my Filco). My real ideal board is something like a korean custom with a black aluminum case (a really nice one) and LEDs. I think some website will be selling thick PBT black caps soon (according to that group buy thread), but even if they don't I'll have a few sets of black blank caps to mix in with my blue ones from the GB. I think adding some black caps to these blue ones ontop of a white backlight would look really sweet. I wish I could get some other color thick PBT, but I honestly haven't seen any.

Interesting.

A lot of people say that the BW is made well enough, but when you compare it to some of the other leading keyboards you realise that it really is not that well made.

Keytrun · « **Reply #43 on:** Wed, 20 November 2013, 21:27:22 »

Quote from: rowdy on Wed, 20 November 2013, 21:24:40

Quote from: Keytrun on Wed, 20 November 2013, 21:21:52
I honestly didn't think the backlight would shine through at all. I'm honestly not sure if I would have ordered a different board even if I knew that, though. When I ordered my Filco a few days ago I didn't know that the ducky shine 3 had better than standard cherry stabilizers, and the WASD Code is sold out for months. Those are the only two mainstream backlit TKLS that I'd be interested in. I'll get a ducky shine 3 soon enough and put another set of blue caps on it and it'll look just as sweet . Unfortunately I'll likely be getting rid of the Blackwidow when I get my filco in a few days. Its honestly just not very well made and I'd much rather have that money and put it towards another board (or accessories for my Filco). My real ideal board is something like a korean custom with a black aluminum case (a really nice one) and LEDs. I think some website will be selling thick PBT black caps soon (according to that group buy thread), but even if they don't I'll have a few sets of black blank caps to mix in with my blue ones from the GB. I think adding some black caps to these blue ones ontop of a white backlight would look really sweet. I wish I could get some other color thick PBT, but I honestly haven't seen any.

Interesting.

A lot of people say that the BW is made well enough, but when you compare it to some of the other leading keyboards you realise that it really is not that well made.

I don't have experience with other boards, but this one just feels crappy when moving it. It creeks everytime I pick it up, I feel like the cord is going to fall out the back, and omg the stock keycaps are so thin I dented a few just by pulling them out of the board.

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Author Topic: Just got my thick PBT Caps but they're just in a plastic bag! Help! (Read 7563 times)