What's closest to Browns but also close to silent?

[keyjay]

I'm a power business user. Been using Browns for years and can't imagine liking anything different more than I like the Browns. (I've also seen a pattern where Browns are the keyboard of choice by some of those with insane experience with keyboards and by at least one owner of a well-known company that sells great boards.)

I always install o-rings on my Browns. I like the difference in feel, quieter sound, and slightly shorter travel.

I want to see if there's a really similar-feeling alternative that is really quiet -- so I can type while on the phone and people don't feel insulted (some people tend to feel that way even if I'm diligently listening to and typing virtually every word they're saying; it's just human nature).

I tried a Topre board (not silent) and it's not for me at all. Maybe I'm just too used to the Browns. I love the feel of the Topre keys as far as feel goes, like walking in fresh, soft, powdery snow. Someone described it as a buttery feel, and that's a good way to put it. I just don't want to be on soft, powdery snow or in butter when running for my life... which IS life! Browns with o-rings just work for me to get work done.

I only use standard full-sized layouts. Ideally, I prefer a black board with white lettering.

I'm wondering if there's a different Cherry switch that's really, really close in feel to the Browns yet also close to being silent, or ends up close to silent once o-rings are added.

Thanks!

[smknjoe]

I don't think you can get much quieter unless you get some kind of rubber dome (other than Topre.)

[reziak]

My quietest board (I have Topre, browns, clears, blues, and reds) is my 55g lubed and stickered red board. I'm not sure if its because it's PCB mounted, the stickers, or both, but it has the softest bottoming out sound I've ever heard on a mech. I didn't believe in the stickers, except that one of the switches isn't stickered and is noticeably louder and pingier when it bottoms out.

[keyjay]

My quietest board (I have Topre, browns, clears, blues, and reds) is my 55g lubed and stickered red board. I'm not sure if its because it's PCB mounted, the stickers, or both, but it has the softest bottoming out sound I've ever heard on a mech. I didn't believe in the stickers, except that one of the switches isn't stickered and is noticeably louder and pingier when it bottoms out.

I'm curious what "stickers" refers to. I'm not familiar. (I'm not going to mod a board -- the most I'll do is have someone like Weyman at WASD install o-rings for me even if I buy, say, a Leopold from EK).

Reds has occurred to me to possibly consider from vague memories of all I've read here over the years, but I'm guessing 55g will be a bit much for me. The 45g of the Browns really seems to be the sweet spot for me. (I tried a buckling springs from Unicomp once and after a few days or a week I was unable to use it -- just way too firm for my liking.)

[smknjoe]

Have you ever tried a linear switch? There's nothing smoother or more "buttery" than that. More than Topre (HHKB.)

[tbc]

there's really nothing you can do except learn to not bottom out.  especially if you're not willing to even take off your own keycaps.

you'll just have to get a different mic (this is a pretty futile endeavor so i'm told).

[keyjay]

there's really nothing you can do except learn to not bottom out.  especially if you're not willing to even take off your own keycaps.

you'll just have to get a different mic (this is a pretty futile endeavor so i'm told).

Let me clarify that: I am certainly willing to pay someone else to mod a board (or two) for me. As long as it's something that's not so out of the norm that well-known people in the field would shy away from doing it.

[rowdy]

You could try placing the keyboard on a rubber mat.  That might help to absorb some of the sound resulting from bottoming out, and maybe from when the switch returns to the up position too.

[Belfong]

What about Matias alps quiet switch? They are really quiet .. as quiet as a mechanical keyboard can get.

[Grim Fandango]

One thing that kind of helps as well is to put some kind of cloth (a towel, mousepad or something similar) under the keyboard. It really dampens the sound you make when you bottom out. I use o-rings and a mousepad cut to size of the keyboard, and the difference in the amount of noise it makes is quite noticeable.

[reziak]

My quietest board (I have Topre, browns, clears, blues, and reds) is my 55g lubed and stickered red board. I'm not sure if its because it's PCB mounted, the stickers, or both, but it has the softest bottoming out sound I've ever heard on a mech. I didn't believe in the stickers, except that one of the switches isn't stickered and is noticeably louder and pingier when it bottoms out.

I'm curious what "stickers" refers to. I'm not familiar. (I'm not going to mod a board -- the most I'll do is have someone like Weyman at WASD install o-rings for me even if I buy, say, a Leopold from EK).

Reds has occurred to me to possibly consider from vague memories of all I've read here over the years, but I'm guessing 55g will be a bit much for me. The 45g of the Browns really seems to be the sweet spot for me. (I tried a buckling springs from Unicomp once and after a few days or a week I was unable to use it -- just way too firm for my liking.)

Stock reds have the same springs as browns and are 45g. They're a completely linear switch (smooth all the way until you bottom out).

Stickers refer to putting vinyl stickers in the switch. Some people swear by them, other people say they don't do anything. I wasn't a believer until I experienced what I described above. It supposedly reduces any wiggle or movement the switch might have. Stickering a lubing are very common things to do to switches (around here, at least!), and I'd definitely at least recommend the lubing to make the reds as smooth as butter.

[davkol]

Is this your thread?

Just get a good noise-blocking mic.

I want to see if there's a really similar-feeling alternative that is really quiet -- so I can type while on the phone and people don't feel insulted (some people tend to feel that way even if I'm diligently listening to and typing virtually every word they're saying; it's just human nature).

I like offending people, because I think people who get offended should be offended.

[jdcarpe]

I'm guessing the problem is not the "bottoming out" sound, as you have o-rings installed. I think the noise which remains is the "topping out" sounds when the keys return to the unactuated position after release. There's not a whole lot that can be done about that, unfortunately. You can try things like:

- PCB mounted (non-plate-mounted) keyboard, such as a Cherry G80 series.
- Shelf liner or other dampening material under the PCB in the case to reduce keystroke volume
- Thicker keycaps, to further reduce vibrations which cause noise

[davkol]

...or latex mod.

[tp4tissue]

impossible.  rebound sound un-dimmable. 

[davkol]

[neun_sechs_zwei]

How about clears with fatter o-rings?

Feels like less travel/less bottoming.

[Findecanor]

What about Matias alps quiet switch? They are really quiet .. as quiet as a mechanical keyboard can get.

That was my first thought too.

I would describe the feel as being somewhere in-between that of Cherry MX Brown and Topre, but maybe a bit more raspy.
There may be some good rubber dome keyboard out there with a feel more similar to MX Brown, but the Matias Quiet switch is also dampened on the upstroke which is very unusual.

[Oobly]

If you're okay with a little modding work yourself (opening switches, adding stickers, some rubber pieces and a couple drops of latex) you can get a PCB mounted board (no plate) and trampoline and latex mod the switches: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=50632.msg1117334#msg1117334

The video gives some idea of how quiet they are afterwards.

[EDIT] Oops, Davkol already linked the video. They're even quieter with POM caps on, the ones in the video are PBT.[/EDIT]

[spiceBar]

I'm guessing the problem is not the "bottoming out" sound, as you have o-rings installed. I think the noise which remains is the "topping out" sounds when the keys return to the unactuated position after release. There's not a whole lot that can be done about that, unfortunately. You can try things like:

- PCB mounted (non-plate-mounted) keyboard, such as a Cherry G80 series.
- Shelf liner or other dampening material under the PCB in the case to reduce keystroke volume
- Thicker keycaps, to further reduce vibrations which cause noise

Jdcarpe is absolutely right.

You guys after all this time still do not get that the problem with silencing Cherry MX is not the bottoming out noise.

O-rings, or even better, landing pads, take care of the bottoming out (as long as you are not hammering your keyboard).

The problem is that there is almost nothing we can do to silence the upstroke. Once you have silenced the bottoming out, the upstroke is louder than the downstroke. And it's a very annoying high-pitched sound (plastic against plastic).

The best method I know to silence the upstroke is to put non-conductive grease inside the switch. Not oil. The grease must have lower viscosity than oil. This limits the speed of the plunger on the upstroke and dampens the sounds rather well, but it also changes the feel of the switch. I find it acceptable to my taste, but I'm not sure you would like it.

Silencing the upstroke is possible on Topre switches, and the result is very good. Silenced Topre switches (on a Realforce) are so quiet that I can use it in a room where two people are sleeping (yes, I really do that). It works only with plate-mounted Topres (it's not as effective on the HHKB for example).

[tp4tissue]

^^  oobly says liquid latex works towards silencing the upstroke...

I shall buy some and find out.. once the new Credit card gets here.. gotta spend $1000 this month to get bonus points..

[jdcarpe]

Jdcarpe is absolutely right.

This is all you ever needed to know. Trust the JD.

[tp4tissue]

Jdcarpe is absolutely right.

This is all you ever needed to know. Trust the JD.

Lies... all of it.......

[jdcarpe]

Jdcarpe is absolutely right.

This is all you ever needed to know. Trust the JD.

Lies... all of it.......

Too late, it's in my signature now.

[SpAmRaY]

I'm guessing the problem is not the "bottoming out" sound, as you have o-rings installed. I think the noise which remains is the "topping out" sounds when the keys return to the unactuated position after release. There's not a whole lot that can be done about that, unfortunately. You can try things like:

- PCB mounted (non-plate-mounted) keyboard, such as a Cherry G80 series.
- Shelf liner or other dampening material under the PCB in the case to reduce keystroke volume
- Thicker keycaps, to further reduce vibrations which cause noise

Jdcarpe is absolutely right.

You guys after all this time still do not get that the problem with silencing Cherry MX is not the bottoming out noise.

O-rings, or even better, landing pads, take care of the bottoming out (as long as you are not hammering your keyboard).

The problem is that there is almost nothing we can do to silence the upstroke. Once you have silenced the bottoming out, the upstroke is louder than the downstroke. And it's a very annoying high-pitched sound (plastic against plastic).

The best method I know to silence the upstroke is to put non-conductive grease inside the switch. Not oil. The grease must have lower viscosity than oil. This limits the speed of the plunger on the upstroke and dampens the sounds rather well, but it also changes the feel of the switch. I find it acceptable to my taste, but I'm not sure you would like it.

Silencing the upstroke is possible on Topre switches, and the result is very good. Silenced Topre switches (on a Realforce) are so quiet that I can use it in a room where two people are sleeping (yes, I really do that). It works only with plate-mounted Topres (it's not as effective on the HHKB for example).

My HHKB is very much silent when I type on it, its glorious actually, typing on clears makes too much noise for me now

[spiceBar]

I'm guessing the problem is not the "bottoming out" sound, as you have o-rings installed. I think the noise which remains is the "topping out" sounds when the keys return to the unactuated position after release. There's not a whole lot that can be done about that, unfortunately. You can try things like:

- PCB mounted (non-plate-mounted) keyboard, such as a Cherry G80 series.
- Shelf liner or other dampening material under the PCB in the case to reduce keystroke volume
- Thicker keycaps, to further reduce vibrations which cause noise

Jdcarpe is absolutely right.

You guys after all this time still do not get that the problem with silencing Cherry MX is not the bottoming out noise.

O-rings, or even better, landing pads, take care of the bottoming out (as long as you are not hammering your keyboard).

The problem is that there is almost nothing we can do to silence the upstroke. Once you have silenced the bottoming out, the upstroke is louder than the downstroke. And it's a very annoying high-pitched sound (plastic against plastic).

The best method I know to silence the upstroke is to put non-conductive grease inside the switch. Not oil. The grease must have lower viscosity than oil. This limits the speed of the plunger on the upstroke and dampens the sounds rather well, but it also changes the feel of the switch. I find it acceptable to my taste, but I'm not sure you would like it.

Silencing the upstroke is possible on Topre switches, and the result is very good. Silenced Topre switches (on a Realforce) are so quiet that I can use it in a room where two people are sleeping (yes, I really do that). It works only with plate-mounted Topres (it's not as effective on the HHKB for example).

My HHKB is very much silent when I type on it, its glorious actually, typing on clears makes too much noise for me now

I have an HHKB Type-S that makes a hell of noise compared to the Realforce I have silenced myself.

I don't think it's something I can fix, even if I replace the silicone rings inside by landing pads, as I did for the Realforce.

The problem is that the HHKB is all plastic. The case makes a hollow noise when bottoming out and also on the upstroke. In the Realforce you have a metal plate, and it makes all the difference. I'm not saying I don't like the sound of the HHKB, but the modded Realforce is much more silent.

My silenced FC660C also has a metal plate, and is much more silent than the HHKB Type-S.

I think the OP should really consider a Topre. A silenced 45g full size Realforce could be extremely silent and not too alien compared to browns. Okay, yes, this is debatable, but if you don't want people to hear you typing over the phone, I really don't see what other mechanical keyboard would do the job.

[SpAmRaY]

I'm guessing the problem is not the "bottoming out" sound, as you have o-rings installed. I think the noise which remains is the "topping out" sounds when the keys return to the unactuated position after release. There's not a whole lot that can be done about that, unfortunately. You can try things like:

- PCB mounted (non-plate-mounted) keyboard, such as a Cherry G80 series.
- Shelf liner or other dampening material under the PCB in the case to reduce keystroke volume
- Thicker keycaps, to further reduce vibrations which cause noise

Jdcarpe is absolutely right.

You guys after all this time still do not get that the problem with silencing Cherry MX is not the bottoming out noise.

O-rings, or even better, landing pads, take care of the bottoming out (as long as you are not hammering your keyboard).

The problem is that there is almost nothing we can do to silence the upstroke. Once you have silenced the bottoming out, the upstroke is louder than the downstroke. And it's a very annoying high-pitched sound (plastic against plastic).

The best method I know to silence the upstroke is to put non-conductive grease inside the switch. Not oil. The grease must have lower viscosity than oil. This limits the speed of the plunger on the upstroke and dampens the sounds rather well, but it also changes the feel of the switch. I find it acceptable to my taste, but I'm not sure you would like it.

Silencing the upstroke is possible on Topre switches, and the result is very good. Silenced Topre switches (on a Realforce) are so quiet that I can use it in a room where two people are sleeping (yes, I really do that). It works only with plate-mounted Topres (it's not as effective on the HHKB for example).

My HHKB is very much silent when I type on it, its glorious actually, typing on clears makes too much noise for me now

I have an HHKB Type-S that makes a hell of noise compared to the Realforce I have silenced myself.

I don't think it's something I can fix, even if I replace the silicone rings inside by landing pads, as I did for the Realforce.

The problem is that the HHKB is all plastic. The case makes a hollow noise when bottoming out and also on the upstroke. In the Realforce you have a metal plate, and it makes all the difference. I'm not saying I don't like the sound of the HHKB, but the modded Realforce is much more silent.

My silenced FC660C also has a metal plate, and is much more silent than the HHKB Type-S.

I think the OP should really consider a Topre. A silenced 45g full size Realforce could be extremely silent and not too alien compared to browns. Okay, yes, this is debatable, but if you don't want people to hear you typing over the phone, I really don't see what other mechanical keyboard would do the job.

Now your making me want to silence my realforce

[spiceBar]

I'm guessing the problem is not the "bottoming out" sound, as you have o-rings installed. I think the noise which remains is the "topping out" sounds when the keys return to the unactuated position after release. There's not a whole lot that can be done about that, unfortunately. You can try things like:

- PCB mounted (non-plate-mounted) keyboard, such as a Cherry G80 series.
- Shelf liner or other dampening material under the PCB in the case to reduce keystroke volume
- Thicker keycaps, to further reduce vibrations which cause noise

Jdcarpe is absolutely right.

You guys after all this time still do not get that the problem with silencing Cherry MX is not the bottoming out noise.

O-rings, or even better, landing pads, take care of the bottoming out (as long as you are not hammering your keyboard).

The problem is that there is almost nothing we can do to silence the upstroke. Once you have silenced the bottoming out, the upstroke is louder than the downstroke. And it's a very annoying high-pitched sound (plastic against plastic).

The best method I know to silence the upstroke is to put non-conductive grease inside the switch. Not oil. The grease must have lower viscosity than oil. This limits the speed of the plunger on the upstroke and dampens the sounds rather well, but it also changes the feel of the switch. I find it acceptable to my taste, but I'm not sure you would like it.

Silencing the upstroke is possible on Topre switches, and the result is very good. Silenced Topre switches (on a Realforce) are so quiet that I can use it in a room where two people are sleeping (yes, I really do that). It works only with plate-mounted Topres (it's not as effective on the HHKB for example).

My HHKB is very much silent when I type on it, its glorious actually, typing on clears makes too much noise for me now

I have an HHKB Type-S that makes a hell of noise compared to the Realforce I have silenced myself.

I don't think it's something I can fix, even if I replace the silicone rings inside by landing pads, as I did for the Realforce.

The problem is that the HHKB is all plastic. The case makes a hollow noise when bottoming out and also on the upstroke. In the Realforce you have a metal plate, and it makes all the difference. I'm not saying I don't like the sound of the HHKB, but the modded Realforce is much more silent.

My silenced FC660C also has a metal plate, and is much more silent than the HHKB Type-S.

I think the OP should really consider a Topre. A silenced 45g full size Realforce could be extremely silent and not too alien compared to browns. Okay, yes, this is debatable, but if you don't want people to hear you typing over the phone, I really don't see what other mechanical keyboard would do the job.

Now your making me want to silence my realforce

Well I'm pretty sure you had seen my thread about it already, but just in case here it is again. How-to:
  http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=49046.msg1056220#msg1056220

The result of silencing on a FC660C (only the top two rows are silenced):
  http://www.chesstiger.com/images/keyboards/Silenced_FC660C.mp4

Standard Realforce vs silenced FC660C:
  http://www.chesstiger.com/images/keyboards/RF88_vs_Silenced%20FC660C.mp4

Silenced RF87U vs non-silenced one:
  http://www.chesstiger.com/images/keyboards/RF87_silenced_before_after.mp4

[tp4tissue]

Jdcarpe is absolutely right.

This is all you ever needed to know. Trust the JD.

Lies... all of it.......

Too late, it's in my signature now.

[jacobolus]

I also say go for the Matias quiet click switches. In my opinion these feel much nicer than MX browns to type on [sharper tactility, higher actuation point], and are quieter too.

[SonOfSonOfSpock]

I just compared my red and brown switches. The rebound seems louder on my reds. Not sure if that is because of keycaps differences or not.

If I were in your situation I'd try a Matias quiet board. I need to head over to Microcenter and try one out. The other thing I'd consider would be to have an Apple chiclet board just for the phone. That's the quietest board I've ever used.

[Oobly]

 Jer. 5:21 (King James version): "Hear now this, O foolish people, and without understanding; which have eyes, and see not; which have ears, and hear not."



http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=50632.msg1113167#msg1113167

[tp4tissue]

Jer. 5:21 (King James version): "Hear now this, O foolish people, and without understanding; which have eyes, and see not; which have ears, and hear not."

Show Image

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=50632.msg1113167#msg1113167

Preach oh wise one....  sadly... new card's still not here...

[komar007]

I have recently found that using an acrylic case minimizes the noise very well.
I'm currently typing on clears in an acrylic case, which has no empty space inside (thick acrylic plate, instead of steel, and a rubber pad between the PCB and the bottom layer). I think if you used lubed browns with that, it could be even more silent.

[tp4tissue]

I have recently found that using an acrylic case minimizes the noise very well.
I'm currently typing on clears in an acrylic case, which has no empty space inside (thick acrylic plate, instead of steel, and a rubber pad between the PCB and the bottom layer). I think if you used lubed browns with that, it could be even more silent.

i think if you do oobly's latex mod + trampoline, it'll be pretttty much ultra silent..

because you've then worked at the "source" of the noise.. rather than only dampening reverberation.

[C5Allroad]

You can try clears maybe? They are heavier so that theoretically means that you won't bottom out as easily.

[Wildcard]

I used to have reds at work. I could have done a silencing mod, but I thought it was quiet enough that no one said anything. I also use a heavy case to absorb some of the shock and IMO it makes the board a little quieter.

[terrpn]

my black space invaders

[kilogeek]

Lubing switches will surely make them more silent.

I personally don't like silent keyboards, that's my taste, I love clicky noisy kb

But black ALPS feel quite close to brown MX, and once lubed they are  silent, the only sound I have is when the keycap hurts the switch case. I have 1st gen complicated ALPS, someone said next gen are not so good...

If lubed brown with a ring is not silent enough for you than maybe you should use gloves

Noise can also be due to keycaps, some cheap plastic keycaps atc like a drum, even with ring they may be noisy, just test without and with keycaps, you may see a difference. Heavier keycaps or keycap using a best quality plastic shall produce less noise IMO, perhaps some kind of hard rubber keycaps may exist... IDK

[kilogeek]

Oh and you can also fill the inside of your keyboard shell with glass fiber, this is known as a great sound absorber.