Topre VS MX Clear VS Ergo Clear

[snarfarlarkus]

So I own a RF 87U 55g and Omnikey 102  and they're getting no use due to my baby Model F being my primary keyboard. So I am about to go out and get a MX clear or ergo clear keyboard but I just don't know which one to get. How do they all compare? Thanks!

[Bucake]

dude, save yourself. stick to the model f. model f is the best. stop spending cash. i am that angel on your shoulder, listen to me!

[snarfarlarkus]

Hahaha I always tell myself that the Model F is the best... But as we all know, there is no end game so I shall continue my search for another keyswitch that may feel better than my Model F

[jamster]

IMO ergoclear is the best implementation of an inherently cruddy switch design, but then I prefer the 'collapse' feeling that comes with rubber dome/topre/BS. I started off with a clear board, and absolutely hated the big ramp up in resistance as the switches approached bottom. And the ****ty feeling of the rough slider surfaces sandpapering against each other which just seemed to scream "poor production tolerances."

Ergoclear (65g, lubed) is the only MX switch I can use consistently without wanting to defenestrate, but if I had any of the other keyboard options you mention, I'd not spend the money on MX. Even now I'm typing this on fake Topre (RC930), and this board feels so much smoother- key travel feels both tighther (less rattly) and smoother, with a similar amount of tactility.

Of course, switch preference is highly personal, but if you're used to and like Topre, the Onmikey (I had one too) and BS, then MX is going to be really, really different and probably not in a great way.

I'm partway through changing out a Black board to Zelio switches, and can tell that I prefer them to the original MX already, but I still think that the linearly compressed spring design is the limiting factor in the design.

[E3E]

Zealios are the easiest way to try out "ergo clears" right now. Ergo clears are amazing if you can find some old MX Clear boards to harvest switches from. They are super smooth and have a great tactility. Personally, I'm more of an Alps fan, but properly lubed vintage ergos at a 62g bottom out weight have a combination of smoothness and tactility that is very unique to them.

That said, it's a tedious process if you want a full board of ergos, so be prepared for that.

[moshimalloe]

dude, save yourself. stick to the model f. model f is the best. stop spending cash. i am that angel on your shoulder, listen to me!

Guardian Angel. hehe.

On topic, though, I have an Ergo Clear and a Novatouch, and I much prefer the novatouch over the ergo clear.

[jerue]

In order of personal preference...

62g Vintage ergoclear (lightly lubed, preferably) > 55g Topre > regular/new 62g ergoclear (lubed) > Model F > Model M > non-lubed 62g ergoclear/65g Zealio (they're too new so not worn in yet)

TL;DR - ergoclear! If you want stock clears, I would recommend lubing them, in which that case, why not just get some 62g springs and make them 1000x better.


 

[Aengus]

I learned a new word today -- defenestrate.  Looking forward to using that in a conversation haha.  I have only typed on topre for the most part.  I want to try out some Zealios but am a bit intimidated by the project. 

[sitch]

Try everything, who knows which one you like  I personally prefer 55g topre > ergo clear, have not tried model F before though..

[snarfarlarkus]

THanks for all the replies guys! The reason why I want a new keyboard is because I am really underwhelmed by the RF 87U. I am using it now just to try to make myself like it but honestly, its just a very boring switch in my opinion. Yes, its buttery smooth after coming from the Model F or blue alps but gosh, after 5 minutes or so its just so plain and boring. To me, there just isn't much tactility and it just feels like a very worn in rubber dome almost like my 10 year old Logitech G15. I like my heavy, stiff, LOUD switches hence why I want to try something like the ergo clear. I have tried mx brown which is my least favourite switch next to rubber dome and scissor and I know the clear is just a stiffer version of it but I hear great things about it.

Do you guys have any other recommendations on other switches to try? Besides beamspring, the ergo clear is the only switch that intrigues me as of yet.

And also, do any of you guys have any ergo clears you are wanting to sell to me? hehe.

[jerue]

You might like 45g Topre. I can see why some people feel 55g Topre is similar to a rubber dome (well, besides the obvious mechanism, 55g is closer to the actuation of a regular rubber dome). 45g Topre is a bit different; I would recommend a HHKB because it doesn't have the metal plate the Realforce does and is a unique experience. You might even want to swap your 55g Topre domes if you find 45g to be too light.

I don't know if anyone would be selling ergo-clears as is, it might be easier to buy regular MX clears and then a pack of 62g springs from the classifieds here. Or, just buy a bunch of 65g Zealios, they are a little similar to 62g ergo-clears. Don't forget switch lube

[E3E]

THanks for all the replies guys! The reason why I want a new keyboard is because I am really underwhelmed by the RF 87U. I am using it now just to try to make myself like it but honestly, its just a very boring switch in my opinion. Yes, its buttery smooth after coming from the Model F or blue alps but gosh, after 5 minutes or so its just so plain and boring. To me, there just isn't much tactility and it just feels like a very worn in rubber dome almost like my 10 year old Logitech G15. I like my heavy, stiff, LOUD switches hence why I want to try something like the ergo clear. I have tried mx brown which is my least favourite switch next to rubber dome and scissor and I know the clear is just a stiffer version of it but I hear great things about it.

Do you guys have any other recommendations on other switches to try? Besides beamspring, the ergo clear is the only switch that intrigues me as of yet.

And also, do any of you guys have any ergo clears you are wanting to sell to me? hehe.

Hmm. If you like stiffer switches, then Ergo Clears might not be for you. While they do provide an increase in tactility compared to normal MX Clears, this is mainy because most people put lighter spring weights in them. The popular 62g spring weight is a touch heavier than MX reds, which supposedly bottom out at 60g.

MX Greens are always getting compared to BS by a lot of people on here (or on reddit at least). I really don't know. I have MX Greens, but I have never typed on a Model M or anything of the sort. My immediate impression was that they didn't really feel heavy.

You could get some heavy springs and put them in clears or try and find some Amber Alps out of an Apple IIc, which are supposedly quite stiff but also smooth like Blue Alps. Er, but if you want to go that route, you'd have to either put the switches in another Alps board or build one yourself!

Probably way more of a hassle than you're looking for. xD

[absyrd]

65 or 67g zealios if you can manage it.

[tp4tissue]

I've thought about switches for a long time.


My conclusion from a utilitarian perspective is that Topre is poorly designed.


In engineering it's all about precision and tolerances..   TOPRE doesn't have that ,  it is varies greatly between keys, ONTOP of being inconsistent over time due to the rubber becoming denatured.. .


Cherry, is by far the most simplistic application of tactile and linear switches.  And it's fantastic because there are fewer parts and therefore fewer tolerances to consider..



So mechanically speaking.. Topre is very far from ideal.... 

[jamster]

THanks for all the replies guys! The reason why I want a new keyboard is because I am really underwhelmed by the RF 87U. I am using it now just to try to make myself like it but honestly, its just a very boring switch in my opinion. Yes, its buttery smooth after coming from the Model F or blue alps but gosh, after 5 minutes or so its just so plain and boring. To me, there just isn't much tactility and it just feels like a very worn in rubber dome almost like my 10 year old Logitech G15. I like my heavy, stiff, LOUD switches hence why I want to try something like the ergo clear. I have tried mx brown which is my least favourite switch next to rubber dome and scissor and I know the clear is just a stiffer version of it but I hear great things about it.

Do you guys have any other recommendations on other switches to try? Besides beamspring, the ergo clear is the only switch that intrigues me as of yet.

And also, do any of you guys have any ergo clears you are wanting to sell to me? hehe.

I also prefer stiff, loud switches. I only went to EC (with o-rings) and topre clone (with a RF 55 on the way) because loud switches would annoy people around me.

I was tempted to try the quiet Matias switches, but they are impossible to find locally.

Hmm.... Having tried RF 55 and Clear/Ergoclear to compare to MX.

Ergoclear is tactility (much more than brown) with little bottom out resistance. Still feels reasonably snappy.
Clear is tactility with a lot of bottom out resistance, to the extent that bottom out to me feels mushy and non-snappy.

[rowdy]

I learned a new word today -- defenestrate.  Looking forward to using that in a conversation haha.  I have only typed on topre for the most part.  I want to try out some Zealios but am a bit intimidated by the project. 

I manage to use that every now and again, mainly at work.

From the French, fenetre.

Extraforaneous is another good word to drop casually into conversation from time to time.

[ideus]

I've thought about switches for a long time.


My conclusion from a utilitarian perspective is that Topre is poorly designed.


In engineering it's all about precision and tolerances..   TOPRE doesn't have that ,  it is varies greatly between keys, ONTOP of being inconsistent over time due to the rubber becoming denatured.. .


Cherry, is by far the most simplistic application of tactile and linear switches.  And it's fantastic because there are fewer parts and therefore fewer tolerances to consider..



So mechanically speaking.. Topre is very far from ideal....

I concurred with this explanation; however, in fairness, it does not answer the OP question.

[TimIsABat]

I own both a Topre board (HHKB Pro 2) and a MX Clear board (Ducky Shine 4 Community Edition).

I switch between the two weekly (one week on my HHKB and one week on my Ducky).

I tried making an ergoclear board, but I suck and messed it all up so I can't really compare on that.

From experience though, I do have to say that both are really great boards. I prefer the resistance I get from the MX Clear board because it feels more like a pillow and I do notice that I make less mistakes when I type. The tactile bump is so much better than a MX Brown board. Having a lighter switch with the tactility of a clear would definitely be a benefit especially if you are lighter on the fingers or game a lot more (FPS mostly). My HHKB on the other hand has a really nice tactility and bottoming out really doesn't matter as it is much softer than a typical keyboard or MX board (depending on modifications). I prefer it when I game because I worry less about bottoming out and since the switches use a lighter spring, it makes moving faster much easier. I am getting more used to gaming on my Ducky though. You really don't have to press that much harder to reach the bump. They are two completely different feeling really. It all comes to preference on your end.

If anyone can help me find a modded Ergoclear cause I don't want to spend another 200+ (total with all the switches and equipment which I gave to a friend) on modding a Poker, that would be great  .