So, In Independence Day..

[tp4tissue]

Wouldn't a nuke do absolutely Nothing to the alien mother-ship, even from the inside, since it's 1/4 the size of the moon ? 

[appleonama]

Can you guys mute tp again? Gh was sane for a couple days

[Computer-Lab in Basement]

pressure

space vehicles are airtight to contain an atmosphere, so the massive release of pressure from a nuke could destroy it

[tp4tissue]

Can you guys mute tp again? Gh was sane for a couple days

I'm just saying.. 

Even if we assume the alien ship is Air tight, which it wouldn't be...   it'd be like filling a giant balloon with 1 more drop of air..

that really wouldn't do anything, and certainly not burst it.



The only way I could possibly imagine that plan working , is if there were high density energy storage nearby where they planted the nuke.. and that caused a chain reaction.


But honestly.... i mean.. These are aliens,, they would've designed the ship better just in case the fuel cell storage blew up no ?

[appleonama]

Can you guys mute tp again? Gh was sane for a couple days

I'm just saying.. 

Even if we assume the alien ship is Air tight, which it wouldn't be...   it'd be like filling a giant balloon with 1 more drop of air..

that really wouldn't do anything, and certainly not burst it.

They all have a weak spot. Just sayin

[Halverson]

GH just feels right seeing several new tp threads everyday


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[FoxWolf1]

Depends on what the alien ship is filled with, and how much that stuff likes to explode.

If it's got a bunch of antimatter tanks, and you set your nuke off next to them, gg.

[rowdy]

Doesn't matter what fuel it uses, it would have a lot in it.  As long as you explode something near the fuel.

The death star WAS the size of as moon, and Luke took that out with one little torpedo, probably wasn't even a nuke.

[tp4tissue]

Also..

Wouldn't something so explosively powerful happening so close to earth blow away our atmosphere, thus killing life on the planet.. 

See, silly humans not thinking things through..

[chyros]

Who says their fuel would have to be combustible?

[tp4tissue]

Who says their fuel would have to be combustible?

Ye,  that's also important...


It just seems so unlikely that the alien ship would be so poorly constructed where one area blows up, the WHOLE THING blows up..

This is simply an observation based on its size..




Think about it another way,   To travel through space, you would need warp engines that either matches or exceeds the speed of light..   Because if you didn't,  why bother going anywhere, just stay home and grow food....

It's like if your only mode of transport is on the back of turtles,  foggettabouit.

---- This is a valid comparison given the vast distances in space between any objects.

---- Sublight engine is a no go..


So, This giant ship, has to be rigid enough to be accelerated and decelerated at those speeds..   The construction material must be an order of magnitude more inert than matter-composites..   

It has to be something like neutron star matter..   


You can blow nukes at it all day,  a nanometer coating of that stuff can withstand any current human weapon including nukes..


So, if the aliens has this material,  they would surely build core-containment with it.... (the core being likely a miniature black hole)..



And... if we breached containment around  even a miniature black hole so close to earth..   Good bye solar system..

[chyros]

That movie is craptastic anyway, the plot not making any sense is the least of its worries .

[tp4tissue]

That movie is craptastic anyway, the plot not making any sense is the least of its worries .

Lies..

Independance day..  Best movie of 1996..   Right behind Startrek First Contact..

[Olumin]

Who says their fuel would have to be combustible?

Ye,  that's also important...


It just seems so unlikely that the alien ship would be so poorly constructed where one area blows up, the WHOLE THING blows up..

This is simply an observation based on its size..




Think about it another way,   To travel through space, you would need warp engines that either matches or exceeds the speed of light..   Because if you didn't,  why bother going anywhere, just stay home and grow food....

It's like if your only mode of transport is on the back of turtles,  foggettabouit.

---- This is a valid comparison given the vast distances in space between any objects.

---- Sublight engine is a no go..


So, This giant ship, has to be rigid enough to be accelerated and decelerated at those speeds..   The construction material must be an order of magnitude more inert than matter-composites..   

It has to be something like neutron star matter..   


You can blow nukes at it all day,  a nanometer coating of that stuff can withstand any current human weapon including nukes..


So, if the aliens has this material,  they would surely build core-containment with it.... (the core being likely a miniature black hole)..



And... if we breached containment around  even a miniature black hole so close to earth..   Good bye solar system..

From what I've heard, real UFO's (well, alien spacecraft's whish are intended for not only atmospheric flight but interstellar or interplanetary, or even inter-dimensional travel) are often constructed out of a silicon based material (some sort of "intelligent matter"), so soft and brittle you could punch a hole through them (just like our planes). If you read about the few crashed UFO's, their wrack's usually look like a pile of aluminium foil. These crafts are not designed to withstand significant impacts or force, like our cars for example are. These craft's usually don't experience any force exerted on them in the same way our crafts do. If they do, they have probably some energetic fields around these crafts whish would protect them from that. They don't even make contact with the atmosphere, which is why most of them don't emit any noise or sonic booms and such, its also the reason why they don't need to be aerodynamically shaped. Their shape has something to do with the way their "engines" work, some energetic and multidimensional stuff. I also think they use multidimensional portals (or teleportation) for this kind of travel. They are also usually not as big, like the Tardis form Doctor Who, they are bigger on the inside (again, multidimensional or some time-space bending stuff).

[tp4tissue]

^^^  All good points..

However..     You need lots of power to move fast..   Especially so, if the object is massive.. Massive objects NEED to be rigid, other wise they can't be accelerated or decelerated..


If you're saying that the rigidity is a function of this material's interaction with the reactor's energy...

Ok, that's also possible..   But SOME WHERE along this pipeline, multi-dimensional or not.. is a Containment system around the reaction chamber..

That system must be pretty bullet proof..  which is why it seems quite unlikely that at the scale we're talking about, is that mechanism could be breached by mere nukes..

To move that much mass at the speed of light would mean trillions of nukes..

Something which could contain and channel that much energy certainly can't be taken out by nukes..

[Olumin]

^^^  All good points..

However..     You need lots of power to move fast..   Especially so, if the object is massive.. Massive objects NEED to be rigid, other wise they can't be accelerated or decelerated..


If you're saying that the rigidity is a function of this material's interaction with the reactor's energy...

Ok, that's also possible..   But SOME WHERE along this pipeline, multi-dimensional or not.. is a Containment system around the reaction chamber..

That system must be pretty bullet proof..  which is why it seems quite unlikely that at the scale we're talking about, is that mechanism could be breached by mere nukes..

To move that much mass at the speed of light would mean trillions of nukes..

Something which could contain and channel that much energy certainly can't be taken out by nukes..

I think this is more a problem we face at the moment with our current limitations of technology and understanding, the technology and knowledge of these beings would be millions of years ahead of ours. If you think of a warp drive, you think of the craft being inside some sort of bubble with the time-space bending around it, that allows the craft to "move" faster then light but it actually doesn't, and therefore don't have to face these kinds of problems that would go with it. There are better explanations out there, I'm no expert, but I think its the same principle with these crafts. Besides, if they would "simply" teleport, they wouldn't even need to accelerate to the speed of light in the first place, there wouldn't be any "speed" to speak of. I don't know where they get the energy from, perhaps they just suck it out of time-space. There is a pretty much unlimited amount of energy all around us, and that's not even taking access to multiple dimensions into consideration. I don't know for a fact how they do it, but I do know that their crafts are not very tough. But then again, there is more then just one type of craft and more then just one species whish builds them out there. There are so many different shapes and proposes that go with it for them. For example, the cigar shaped craft whish we see most often in our sky's, are I THINK mostly intended for atmospheric flight, or interplanetary at best (there are OF CAUSE exceptions), while saucer shaped crafts often serve interstellar or inter-dimensional proposes. Them crashing is a very, very rare occasion, but if they do, its usually the saucer type crafts whish crash, since these are not specifically designed and adapted to our environment and planet. They are designed on their home planets, whish are very often completely environmentally controlled, not so untamed and "wild" like earth is.

[Olumin]

^^^  All good points..

However..     You need lots of power to move fast..   Especially so, if the object is massive.. Massive objects NEED to be rigid, other wise they can't be accelerated or decelerated..


If you're saying that the rigidity is a function of this material's interaction with the reactor's energy...

Ok, that's also possible..   But SOME WHERE along this pipeline, multi-dimensional or not.. is a Containment system around the reaction chamber..

That system must be pretty bullet proof..  which is why it seems quite unlikely that at the scale we're talking about, is that mechanism could be breached by mere nukes..

To move that much mass at the speed of light would mean trillions of nukes..

Something which could contain and channel that much energy certainly can't be taken out by nukes..

I think this is more a problem we face at the moment with our current limitations of technology and understanding, the technology and knowledge of these beings would be millions of years ahead of ours. If you think of a warp drive, you think of the craft being inside some sort of bubble with the time-space bending around it, that allows the craft to "move" faster then light but it actually doesn't, and therefore don't have to face these kinds of problems that would go with it. There are better explanations out there, I'm no expert, but I think its the same principle with these crafts. Besides, if they would "simply" teleport, they wouldn't even need to accelerate to the speed of light in the first place, there wouldn't be any "speed" to speak of. I don't know where they get the energy from, perhaps they just suck it out of time-space. There is a pretty much unlimited amount of energy all around us, and that's not even taking access to multiple dimensions into consideration. I don't know for a fact how they do it, but I do know that their crafts are not very tough. But then again, there is more then just one type of craft and more then just one species whish builds them out there. There are so many different shapes and proposes that go with it for them. For example, the cigar shaped craft whish we see most often in our sky's, are I THINK mostly intended for atmospheric flight, or interplanetary at best (there are OF CAUSE exceptions), while saucer shaped crafts often serve interstellar or inter-dimensional proposes. Them crashing is a very, very rare occasion, but if they do, its usually the saucer type crafts whish crash, since these are not specifically designed and adapted to our environment and planet. They are designed on their home planets, whish are very often completely environmentally controlled, not so untamed and "wild" like earth is.

Also, from the kind of manoeuvrability you see on some footage of UFO's, they most likely (definitely) have some sort of anti "moment of inertia" device . I just guess that these crazy property's of these crafts are archived by these kinds of devices and energetic fields whish hold them together and "cheat" some laws of physics, rather then some neutron star material.

[tp4tissue]

Why did they even send fighter jets against the ships in the first place..

I don't understand..

We have NON-Nuclear payload ballistic missiles..

 Why didn't they use those missiles first to test the water..

[tp4tissue]

woah.. u could watch it here today it seems for free..

http://www.fandangonow.com/details/movie/independence-day-1996/1MVcb9b60fe3e92f7571788b2092a35c22d

don't know what fandango now is.. but it says free..

[Volucris]

..so is this the resident crazy person every forum has?

[tp4tissue]

..so is this the resident crazy person every forum has?

[katushkin]

..so is this the resident crazy person every forum has?

Yes.

[tp4tissue]

..so is this the resident crazy person every forum has?

Yes.

Just a reminder guys..

You gotta watch the Director's cut..

otherwise you miss alot of alien detail.

[ANightOnCloudNine]

Also..

Wouldn't something so explosively powerful happening so close to earth blow away our atmosphere, thus killing life on the planet.. 

See, silly humans not thinking things through..

Show Image

the atmosphere has a very long reach, yes this would damage it more than usual but it wouldn't destroy the entire atmosphere, the use of hairspray has done more damage than the mothership ever would

[tp4tissue]

Also..

Wouldn't something so explosively powerful happening so close to earth blow away our atmosphere, thus killing life on the planet.. 

See, silly humans not thinking things through..

Show Image

the atmosphere has a very long reach, yes this would damage it more than usual but it wouldn't destroy the entire atmosphere, the use of hairspray has done more damage than the mothership ever would

The shockwave of something 6% the mass of the earth exploding at the same place as the moon..

pretty sure the atmosphere's gone.. if not all the water too,.. 

[tp4tissue]

Hrrrmmm...

The humans used morse code to coordinate the alien counter attack..

Wouldn'tttt the alien decrypt that instantly, and know exactly what we're up to.

I mean.. there's no encoding whatsoever..

[ANightOnCloudNine]

Hrrrmmm...

The humans used morse code to coordinate the alien counter attack..

Wouldn'tttt the alien decrypt that instantly, and know exactly what we're up to.

I mean.. there's no encoding whatsoever..

wouldnt they need to understand english to understand when they decrypt it?

[tp4tissue]

Hrrrmmm...

The humans used morse code to coordinate the alien counter attack..

Wouldn'tttt the alien decrypt that instantly, and know exactly what we're up to.

I mean.. there's no encoding whatsoever..

wouldnt they need to understand english to understand when they decrypt it?

In the beginning of the movie, they alluded to the fact that the early captured ships were spy ships/scout ships..


But overall,  if you'd invade a planet, you'd at least learn about the enemy first..

There's gotta be some protocol for intelligence gathering..

Which would certainly involve language conversion..


Plus...   if WE have google translate... Surely they got Alien Translate...   and assuming they're more advanced than we are..  Their AI could probably program the whole thing automatically without manual involvement.

[ANightOnCloudNine]

Hrrrmmm...

The humans used morse code to coordinate the alien counter attack..

Wouldn'tttt the alien decrypt that instantly, and know exactly what we're up to.

I mean.. there's no encoding whatsoever..

wouldnt they need to understand english to understand when they decrypt it?

In the beginning of the movie, they alluded to the fact that the early captured ships were spy ships/scout ships..


But overall,  if you'd invade a planet, you'd at least learn about the enemy first..

There's gotta be some protocol for intelligence gathering..

Which would certainly involve language conversion..


Plus...   if WE have google translate... Surely they got Alien Translate...   and assuming they're more advanced than we are..  Their AI could probably program the whole thing automatically without manual involvement.

all depends.

[Olumin]

Also..

Wouldn't something so explosively powerful happening so close to earth blow away our atmosphere, thus killing life on the planet.. 

See, silly humans not thinking things through..

Show Image

the atmosphere has a very long reach, yes this would damage it more than usual but it wouldn't destroy the entire atmosphere, the use of hairspray has done more damage than the mothership ever would

The shockwave of something 6% the mass of the earth exploding at the same place as the moon..

pretty sure the atmosphere's gone.. if not all the water too,.. 

Show Image

The US detonated 3 nuclear missiles over the north pole not many decades ago, they got taken out mid flight before they could reach their target by "someone". That ripped a big hole into the ozone layer, but our atmosphere is still there as you can see. In the end, short sighted actions like these will always also affect us. In the end, we didn't damage the "enemy", we only damaged our self. Fighting a war against such beings only means fighting against yourself, it is pointless.

Why did they make the nukes explode, why did there not dispose of them safely if they are so advanced so humanity didn't had to suffer the consequences, consequences caused by a decision made by only a hand full of people? Because that is how our universe works, action follows reaction, that is a law. We have to take responsibility for our actions. Just solving these problems for us would take away form our lessons to be learned there. It is a game.

[katushkin]

The US detonated 3 nuclear missiles over the north pole not many decades ago, they got taken out mid flight before they could reach their target by "someone".

Uhhhhh....

[Olumin]

The US detonated 3 nuclear missiles over the north pole not many decades ago, they got taken out mid flight before they could reach their target by "someone".

Uhhhhh....

The US government suspected German military bases on and under the north pole after WW2. That suspicion was back up by several militarily operations in that area. Their target was where they suspected these basses to be. The 3 missiles where not lunched simultaneously, they never reached their target. I suspect the Germans not being the ones who took out the missiles themselves. The German government at that time, and even after WW2 had several contracts and agreements with "other forces". These forces helped developing technology and provided information as well as "help" in certain cases. Agreements like this existed before with other groups and governments and still exist to this day.

[katushkin]

The US government suspected German military bases on and under the north pole after WW2. That suspicion was back up by several militarily operations in that area. Their target was where they suspected these basses to be. The 3 missiles where not lunched simultaneously, they never reached their target. I suspect the Germans not being the ones who took out the missiles themselves.

Uhhhhh....

I thought tp was our resident conspiracy theorist. But apparently not.

[Olumin]

The US government suspected German military bases on and under the north pole after WW2. That suspicion was back up by several militarily operations in that area. Their target was where they suspected these basses to be. The 3 missiles where not lunched simultaneously, they never reached their target. I suspect the Germans not being the ones who took out the missiles themselves.

Uhhhhh....

I thought tp was our resident conspiracy theorist. But apparently not.

I added a bit more. I suspect this help was provided to the Germans because similar agreements existed before with other governments, that imbalanced the energy, and therefore this time it served to equalise the energy again. Everything in nature always seeks balance. You must know that disasters as we would call them don't exist for these beings. Even war serves a purpose, even though we cannot always see the bigger picture. Humans are by far not the only ones who fight wars.

[katushkin]

Dude I have no idea what you are talking about.

[xtrafrood]

Will Smith's fist weakened the mothership's defense system; obviously.

[Olumin]

Will Smith's fist weakened the mothership's defense system; obviously.

Many of these crafts, especially the ones intended for interstellar and inter dimensional travel also feature a multidimensional layout and design. The way they work is not comparable to anything we know. It would be like describing a modern smartphone to somebody living in the middle ages. These ships "live", they are intelligent. Their "systems" are a living, breathing consciousness. They have a "soul". They are not like any machines as we make them. Our technology is "dead".  It is not possible to simply "hack" into these ships. They are managed by "computers" who wok on multiple levels, they are more then just a computer. These beings connect telepathically to these ships. 

[xtrafrood]

Will Smith's fist weakened the mothership's defense system; obviously.

Many of these crafts, especially the ones intended for interstellar and inter dimensional travel also feature a multidimensional layout and design. The way they work is not comparable to anything we know. It would be like describing a modern smartphone to somebody living in the middle ages. These ships "live", they are intelligent. Their "systems" are a living, breathing consciousness. They have a "soul". They are not like any machines as we make them. Our technology is "dead".  It is not possible to simply "hack" into these ships. They are managed by "computers" who wok on multiple levels, they are more then just a computer. These beings connect telepathically to these ships.

You missed the point of what I said. Will Smith damaged the extra-terrestrial psyches that were connected to the ET that Will Smith punched in the face. He literally weakened the mothership from within with one punch because the mothership is connected to all the ETs that Will smith effected. C'mon.

[fohat.digs]

like the Tardis form Doctor Who,

It irritated the crap out of me when David Tennant "flew" the Tardis along side a car driving down the highway.

[Olumin]

Will Smith's fist weakened the mothership's defense system; obviously.

Many of these crafts, especially the ones intended for interstellar and inter dimensional travel also feature a multidimensional layout and design. The way they work is not comparable to anything we know. It would be like describing a modern smartphone to somebody living in the middle ages. These ships "live", they are intelligent. Their "systems" are a living, breathing consciousness. They have a "soul". They are not like any machines as we make them. Our technology is "dead".  It is not possible to simply "hack" into these ships. They are managed by "computers" who wok on multiple levels, they are more then just a computer. These beings connect telepathically to these ships.

You missed the point of what I said. Will Smith damaged the extra-terrestrial psyches that were connected to the ET that Will Smith punched in the face. He literally weakened the mothership from within with one punch because the mothership is connected to all the ETs that Will smith effected. C'mon.

The ships "defensive system" would not allow access in the first place, not only physically with a force field or something, but they would literally block opportunity's from opening up for you to "attack" in any way. It is also very easy to manipulate humans mentally. There is no way something like that could ever realistically happen. Also aliens would never attack like that, it dosan't many any sense. The way we fight wars is very, very primitive. They don't shoot lasers and drop bombs on each other. Aliens don't bomb anyone.

There was once a Medium who was channelling a alien being and one in the audience asked: "If they are so advanced they have better weapons right? What if they simple come and kill us?". The being replied: "we don't need weapons to kill you, we would simply need to show you the truth."

[xtrafrood]

Will Smith's fist weakened the mothership's defense system; obviously.

Many of these crafts, especially the ones intended for interstellar and inter dimensional travel also feature a multidimensional layout and design. The way they work is not comparable to anything we know. It would be like describing a modern smartphone to somebody living in the middle ages. These ships "live", they are intelligent. Their "systems" are a living, breathing consciousness. They have a "soul". They are not like any machines as we make them. Our technology is "dead".  It is not possible to simply "hack" into these ships. They are managed by "computers" who wok on multiple levels, they are more then just a computer. These beings connect telepathically to these ships.

You missed the point of what I said. Will Smith damaged the extra-terrestrial psyches that were connected to the ET that Will Smith punched in the face. He literally weakened the mothership from within with one punch because the mothership is connected to all the ETs that Will smith effected. C'mon.

The ships "defensive system" would not allow access in the first place, not only physically with a force field or something, but they would literally block opportunity's from opening up for you to "attack" in any way. It is also very easy to manipulate humans mentally. There is no way something like that could ever realistically happen. Also aliens would never attack like that, it dosan't many any sense. The way we fight wars is very, very primitive. They don't shoot lasers and drop bombs on each other. Aliens don't bomb anyone.

There was once a Medium who was channelling a alien being and one in the audience asked: "If they are so advanced they have better weapons right? What if they simple come and kill us?". The being replied: "we don't need weapons to kill you, we would simply need to show you the truth."

The extraterrestrials did not anticipate Will Smith's right hook.

[tp4tissue]

The ships "defensive system" would not allow access in the first place, not only physically with a force field or something, but they would literally block opportunity's from opening up for you to "attack" in any way. It is also very easy to manipulate humans mentally. There is no way something like that could ever realistically happen. Also aliens would never attack like that, it dosan't many any sense. The way we fight wars is very, very primitive. They don't shoot lasers and drop bombs on each other. Aliens don't bomb anyone.

There was once a Medium who was channelling a alien being and one in the audience asked: "If they are so advanced they have better weapons right? What if they simple come and kill us?". The being replied: "we don't need weapons to kill you, we would simply need to show you the truth."

Hrrrrrmmmmmmm......................................................

good stuff