Author Topic: Recertified hard drives - do you buy those refurbished drives?  (Read 1283 times)

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Online phinix

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I saw some good priced hard drives on Western Digital website.
Would you buy a recertified hd from manufacturers site?

It comes with 1 year warranty, instead of 3 years for brand new.
Price £100 vs £170 new.
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Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Recertified hard drives - do you buy those refurbished drives?
« Reply #1 on: Sun, 08 June 2025, 07:24:48 »
Maybe ....

Many times object are returned immediately after being purchased and cannot legally be sold as "new" even though they are, more or less. That could be a good deal.

Otherwise, if "re-certified" means "used but still works" I would be careful, particularly if you are planning to use it for long-term archival service.
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Re: Recertified hard drives - do you buy those refurbished drives?
« Reply #2 on: Sun, 08 June 2025, 07:38:31 »
Tp4 uses them because he doesn't spin up very often for large isos.

If you want something that you keep spun up, or even in a nas with a zfs,  you'll need enterprise rated drives, and you can't use used-drives, because they're at the end of their reliability lifespan.

But it depends on how much you care about data integrity, for general use, it doesn't really matter unless you take Archivist-to-heart as a hobby.

Online phinix

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Re: Recertified hard drives - do you buy those refurbished drives?
« Reply #3 on: Sun, 08 June 2025, 14:38:09 »
Plan is to plug it in to my living room mini-PC and keep all my movies and tv shows collection on it, so practically be on 24/7 ( I would set it to go to sleep during idle).
I would also have second one for backup, kept in drawer, not plugged.
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Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Recertified hard drives - do you buy those refurbished drives?
« Reply #4 on: Sun, 08 June 2025, 16:42:10 »

my living room mini-PC and keep all my movies and tv shows collection on it

have second one for backup, kept in drawer


That is easy. Buy a new high-quality drive for backup and use it as little as possible. Consider the one that gets all the wear and tear to be expendable.
"However, even though I was born in the Mesozoic, I do know what anyone who wants to reach out to young people should say: Billionaires took your money. They took your chance to buy a home. They took your chance at a good education. They stole your opportunities. Billionaires took the things you want in life. If you really want those things, you have to take them back.
That's the message. That's the whole message. Say that every day, not just to reach America's frustrated young white men, but people of every age, race, and gender.
Late-stage capitalism is a wealth-concentration engine, focused on vacuuming up every dollar and putting it in as few hands as possible. Republicans are helping that vacuum suck.
How does a tiny fraction of the population get away with this? They do it by dividing the other 99% of Americans against themselves."
- Marc Sumner 2025-05-30

Offline noisyturtle

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Re: Recertified hard drives - do you buy those refurbished drives?
« Reply #5 on: Sun, 08 June 2025, 18:29:33 »
HDDs are one of the few things I always get new because they usually come with a 2-3 year data guarantee if the drive fails. Used drives are a risk because of that.

Plus it is one of the cheapest and most important parts, no reason to skimp out on it.

Offline Leslieann

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Re: Recertified hard drives - do you buy those refurbished drives?
« Reply #6 on: Sun, 08 June 2025, 19:36:33 »
Use drives are just sketchy, no thanks.
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Re: Recertified hard drives - do you buy those refurbished drives?
« Reply #7 on: Sun, 08 June 2025, 20:07:03 »
Plan is to plug it in to my living room mini-PC and keep all my movies and tv shows collection on it, so practically be on 24/7 ( I would set it to go to sleep during idle).
I would also have second one for backup, kept in drawer, not plugged.

I wouldn't set it to idle on windows,  windows spins up the drive and will put 10s of spin ups on it per day, Drives are only rated for about 3000-10000 starts.

If you're on a storage system, that keeps it spun off, that's fine.

Maybe leslieann has better info on how to config a system for your use.

Offline ddot

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Re: Recertified hard drives - do you buy those refurbished drives?
« Reply #8 on: Tue, 10 June 2025, 14:25:14 »
It depends on how you use them and your expectations.  If you're storing a single copy of data on a single drive, then reliability is key.  You probably shouldn't though.  Any drive can fail at any time.  See the bathtub curve concept.
https://www.backblaze.com/blog/drive-failure-over-time-the-bathtub-curve-is-leaking/

If you're storing your data across several drives with redundancy, then you can start looking at it from a cost benefit analysis.

Let's say Person A buys 8 new drives and builds an array.  2 drives worth of space are reserved for redundancy and 6 for actual data.  If 1 or even 2 of the drives die at the same time, your data is safe while you rebuild the array.

Now let's say Person B buys 10 refurbished drives and builds an array.  6 drives are for data and 4 are for redundancy.  While the odds of a refurbished drive failure goes up, the odds of 5 drives dying simultaneously brings the failure rate of the overall array way down.  Don't forget you'll need more space for those extra drives and they'll consume more electricity etc.  But in the end, you should get better reliability for a lower cost.

If you really want to go down the rabbit hole, try lurking at reddit.com/r/DataHoarder/.  One of their favourite sources is cast off parts from data centres.  Just like lots of office equipment, data centres often cycle out hard drives after 3ish years.  There's a bunch used enterprise grade drives out there with 25k hours on them.  Although pricing seems to have gone up recently.  Everyone in DataHoarders were pretty pissed off when Linus advertised to the world their favourite suppliers on ebay.

Hard drive shucking is another path to cheaper drives with pros and cons.

Offline Hak Foo

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Re: Recertified hard drives - do you buy those refurbished drives?
« Reply #9 on: Tue, 10 June 2025, 23:32:58 »
I bought one of the cheap 12TB "enterprise" drives and threw it in a little Atom box as a next-tier of backup storage.

As I understand it, a big source of it is hyperscalers, who have racks full of storage that they cycle out either for increased density or because it's cycling past the warranty period.

So far it's working (uptime 6 months) but only a few hundred gigs on it.  It needed a special patch cable because most non-server PSUs identify a specific pin on the standard SATA power plug as "+3.3" and the drives treat it as "shut down and go into power-save mode".
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Offline Leslieann

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Re: Recertified hard drives - do you buy those refurbished drives?
« Reply #10 on: Wed, 11 June 2025, 07:29:20 »
Maybe leslieann has better info on how to config a system for your use. [/size][/color]
Personally, I never let them spin down for faster access.

I'm not sure I'd want windows siting idle without sleep controlling a drive spin up/down for the reasons TP4 mentioned. Either make the whole system sleep, or leave it all on.  Modern Windows is really geared towards SSDs at this point.



Let's say Person A buys 8 new drives and builds an array.  2 drives worth of space are reserved for redundancy and 6 for actual data.  If 1 or even 2 of the drives die at the same time, your data is safe while you rebuild the array.

Now let's say Person B buys 10 refurbished drives and builds an array.  6 drives are for data and 4 are for redundancy.  While the odds of a refurbished drive failure goes up, the odds of 5 drives dying simultaneously brings the failure rate of the overall array way down.  Don't forget you'll need more space for those extra drives and they'll consume more electricity etc.  But in the end, you should get better reliability for a lower cost.

You want your drives from multiple batches for any array. The thinking goes that drives from a batch will typically die at a similar rate, so once one fails the rest are almost sure to follow, and I have seen it happen. So you get some drives from one batch, others from (several) others. Admisn will often buy from different retailers from different parts of the country to get a mixed batch.

Another issue is safety.
If several drives have failed, I don't care how much redundancy you have, you're on the tipping point because of batches, even if mixed, you're rolling the dice if more than one has failed. More importantly though, with the transfer speed of spinner drives and capacity of todays drives, it can literally take DAYS to rebuild an array at 100% load. Todays drives s*ck for this reason and something needs to change for them to really remain viable in the future for any use really.


Lastly...
Backblaze should never be used for reliability ratings on desktop drives, the duty cycle is completely different. Backblaze fills a drive (quickly) then it mostly just sits, whereas a desktop drive gets an initial modest load (windows, maybe a backup) and then lots and lost of start/stops, add remove... for years. Even with a home server, it's likely not run like what the Backblaze duty cycle is. No one should bother with those reports except backup service providers.

The report you want to look at was the old Google drive report where they found drive brand and size was less a prediction of failure than several key S.M.A.R.T. functions, (If I remember right) the most important ones being if a drive showed lots of corrected/read errors (can also signify a sata cable failure) or almost ANY reallocated sectors, events or uncorrectable errors.  I have seen some with a few bad sectors live a long life, but the moment I see more than about half a dozen I replace the drive. Beware, once that number crosses a dozen or few dozen, it starts to climb VERY fast and I've seen drives fail as I was copying off the data more than a few times.

BTW, these days, shucked drives may not have a sata connector and over a USB connection a drive may not have S.M.A.R.T. functionality.
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Re: Recertified hard drives - do you buy those refurbished drives?
« Reply #11 on: Wed, 11 June 2025, 08:28:23 »
The climbing replaced sectors is almost always a broken seal, so moisture is getting in, and it's rusting. unfixable.

Online phinix

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Re: Recertified hard drives - do you buy those refurbished drives?
« Reply #12 on: Wed, 11 June 2025, 08:35:06 »
The one that would be plugged in to 24/7 mini PC, would be accessed sporadically, like maybe once a week, as I would not pick a file from it that often (I have another drive with movies I will watch soon).
2nd one would be kept in drawer as a backup.

I guess I could keep 1st one also unplugged and plug it in, or turn it on only when I would like to check my movies collection or something.

So far, i think I could do one brand new and 2nd backup one, refurbished. What do you guys think?
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Re: Recertified hard drives - do you buy those refurbished drives?
« Reply #13 on: Wed, 11 June 2025, 10:12:49 »
If you keep it cool, around 30C with active fan, it can stay up 24/7 spinning and be ok, the start and stop is what can kill it fast.

The seal wears out faster HOT. And the motor driver gets killed over time by the start stop current.

For movies you'll watch sooon, a 4tb or 8tb ssd might be enough.

If you want a big library, and you want it to spin down, just don't use windows. Use a storage OS, something you know will spin down and stay down. You'll still want active cooling because drives still get warm.


I wouldn't bother with redundancy arrays for movie libraries, flip bits are not noticeable in most video scenarios, and you're not an archivist, there are also 100x data hoardering bros online you can pick files from.