Author Topic: ASETGHNIOP  (Read 13830 times)

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Offline ASETNIOP

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ASETGHNIOP
« on: Tue, 07 January 2020, 14:56:19 »
Greetings! I'm experimenting with a new layout I've put together and thought I'd share the concept here.  It's a very simple change; for each finger, the home row key becomes the most common letter that is already typed using that finger.  This leads to the following key arrangement, where six of the original home row keys (D,F,J,K,L,;) are swapped (E,T,N,I,O,P):



I'm just getting started, but I thought I'd toss it out here for folks to check out if anyone is interested.  My typing speed dropped from ~90 wpm with QWERTY to ~20 with this new method (I am thinking of calling it the "poinsettia" layout) and is now back up to ~60 wpm after approximately four hours of practice.
« Last Edit: Tue, 07 January 2020, 15:04:25 by ASETNIOP »

Offline ASETNIOP

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Re: ASETGHNIOP
« Reply #1 on: Fri, 10 January 2020, 14:09:09 »
Six hours of direct practice along with using it for some coding and my average tested speed is now in the low seventies. 

Probably not particularly interesting, but I'm tracking my progress on a Google spreadsheet:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1e4wPakQVC5a9u2dCzs9a5dk9nO4EWyy61Hpn_FrTQkM/edit?usp=sharing.

Offline jacethesaltsculptor

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Re: ASETGHNIOP
« Reply #2 on: Fri, 10 January 2020, 19:24:44 »
This is interesting to watch someones progress with this granularity, I've always wondered how I'd do on another layout, I may someday try it for awhile to see.

It'd probably something like Colemak, I'm not as brave as you.

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Offline ASETNIOP

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Re: ASETGHNIOP
« Reply #3 on: Sat, 18 January 2020, 17:01:11 »
I'm into the high seventies now, and pretty much have returned to regular productivity.  I'm pretty happy with it.  Every now and again I'll slip into an older progression, but that's been happening less and less frequently.  I expect that sooner or later it will vanish entirely. 

Offline jacethesaltsculptor

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Re: ASETGHNIOP
« Reply #4 on: Sun, 26 January 2020, 14:40:48 »
In another month, I'd love to see a comparison to your older type speed to see differences.

Also, you named the set: ASETGHNIOP

which I can appreciate, because at least that is pronounceable.

But in my heart of hearts, this will always be: QWDRF. (quid-derf)

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Offline ASETNIOP

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Re: ASETGHNIOP
« Reply #5 on: Sat, 08 February 2020, 15:19:53 »
I'm not sure there's going to be a huge difference in speed - at least for another couple months until I have fully eliminated mistakes (or at least, am making no more mistakes than I used to with QWERTY - I'm a pretty messy typist).  But it already scores points when it comes to comfort, which is nice.

Offline batfink

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Re: ASETGHNIOP
« Reply #6 on: Sun, 09 February 2020, 05:51:55 »
I have seen ideas like this a few times before, it's certainly a quick way to make Qwerty more logical in terms of the most common keys being in better places.

Take a look at layouts like Minimak, Asset, Norman, they try a similar approach.

The big drawback with this approach is that it doesn't improve bigrams. For example LO is common letter pair (in English), but is awkward to type quickly, especially as both keys are on the ring finger. DE is another awkward one.  This is where a more comprehensively changed layouts (e.g. Colemak) shines: As well as optimizing key placements based on frequency, it also places huge emphasis on comfortable bigram typing, which makes your typing flow more comfortable.

I started out with similar approach: wanting a large benefit for small learning cost. But once you start getting into keyboard layout optimization, you tend to find you can never stay satisfied with only getting the job half done.

Good luck in your layout journey!

« Last Edit: Sun, 09 February 2020, 05:53:29 by batfink »

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: ASETGHNIOP
« Reply #7 on: Mon, 10 February 2020, 23:05:03 »
It always comes down to the sub-set of things you personally type often.

If you have an optimized set for the entirety of the english dictionary, it will not be optimal for the set of 10,000 commonly used words.

If you optimize the set for natural language, it will not be optimized for programming.


Here's hoping thought input comes along with Elon's electrode implants

Offline ASETNIOP

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Re: ASETGHNIOP
« Reply #8 on: Thu, 13 February 2020, 15:22:59 »
Woo hoo!  Just hit 98 wpm. 

My only real goal with this is to maximize the benefit while minimizing the difficulty of the transition.  I'm hoping that a layout like this would make it easier for people to learn my chorded system (ASETNIOP), which is designed to transition away from physical keyboards entirely.

Offline ASETNIOP

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Re: ASETGHNIOP
« Reply #9 on: Mon, 11 May 2020, 15:47:12 »
Time to pull the plug on this experiment.  I got pretty quick with it but not enough to be worth having to reconfigure every keyboard I ever encounter going forward.

Offline Magas

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Re: ASETGHNIOP
« Reply #10 on: Tue, 12 May 2020, 16:33:10 »
Just started reading this and found it VERY interesting.

I was starting to think that you had found something amazing but then you just stopped? I mean, it sure would be a pain to use someone elses keyboard but man... you sure improved!

Offline batfink

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Re: ASETGHNIOP
« Reply #11 on: Thu, 14 May 2020, 08:53:12 »
Time to pull the plug on this experiment.

Noooo... surely you can't go back to Qwerty now after experiencing something better, even if it was only minor changes!

The "other keyboards problem" for is generally a non-issue for most people (but might depend on your job). I switched to Colemak years ago, and yes, it makes me "different", but the benefits of using something functional easily outweigh the disadvantages. How often do I really need to type on other people's keyboards? Rarely. For those occasions where I do, if it's just a small amount, I just type Qwerty (slowly). But I also have all my layout stuff in Dropbox, it's pretty trivial to set up when I need it, without the need to install anything permanent. I could never go back to Qwerty now, it would be like eating the most delicious meals for a while, but then being only allowed to eat gruel for the rest of your life.
« Last Edit: Thu, 14 May 2020, 08:58:12 by batfink »

Offline ASETNIOP

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Re: ASETGHNIOP
« Reply #12 on: Sun, 21 June 2020, 15:26:11 »
In all honestly, it wasn't significantly better.  I had hoped it would be, but it just wasn't. 

The good thing is that the transition back to QWERTY was really, REALLY easy.

Offline karmakaze

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Re: ASETGHNIOP
« Reply #13 on: Wed, 01 July 2020, 20:00:51 »
This is such an interesting thread. I wish I'd been here at the time.

I recently have been running a similar experiment, and fortunately still progressing forward with it. I was never a touch typist before so I can't offer comparable speed feedback.

The layout I made starts exactly as ASETGHNIOP with the same reasoning that I want something better than QWERTY that's easy to learn.

I didn't stop there though, that was only step 1. I moved a few more keys, keeping them on the same finger or same hand except for R-U swap.

I've put the description and macOS/Windows installers on the Qwickly Github repo with perf stats.

I wrote a blog post about it.

I started a new thread with a picture.
« Last Edit: Wed, 01 July 2020, 20:13:14 by karmakaze »