Author Topic: Hisense LMCL, the OLED DESTROYER. [CES 2020 txt wall]  (Read 2455 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline tp4tissue

  • * Destiny Supporter
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 13378
  • Location: Official Geekhack Public Defender..
  • OmniExpert of: Rice, Top-Ramen, Ergodox, n Females
Hisense LMCL, the OLED DESTROYER. [CES 2020 txt wall]
« on: Mon, 13 January 2020, 17:18:08 »
It's Coming 3rd quarter 2020.  XD9G

Even Tp4 predicted 2-3 years, but no, THIS YEAR.. (Price,  LOWER than Oled)

Light Modulating Cell Layer, (Dual layer LCD panel), 1x greyscale layer beneath color layer, Literal 2 Million dimming zones, that's a physical hard characteristic, no joke, not effectively xxx, it's really 2 million zones.  3840x2160 color layer ontop of 1920x1080 backlight control layer. 8K model also exists (not 2020).

From the flyer, the Hisense LMCL TV is quoting ~150,000 : 1 contrast ratio.  Now, Sony's HX310 HDR Mastering monitor (31inch $40,000) only achieves 125,000:1 contrast. So it remains to be seen whether Hisense is just loose with the number, but it's WELL within the very real / physical ability of the technology, so it's not a bull**** dynamic contrast number like 1million to 1 contrast ratio that we see LG's ips tvs lying about.

This will be their top of the line, So, at 1000nits, we're gonna have 0.0066 nit black lvl, as you know 0.01 is more than dark enough to represent black in the Majority of viewing cases, indistinguishable from Oled's real black.



What makes OLED truly irrelevant and a dead end ??


1,  Oled will burn in and wear unevenly, eventually culminating in spotty discolorations

2,  LG is the only makers of the big Oled panels,  This is bad, because they carry the entire investment load in the technology.
       
-The reason LCD has moved forward so quickly is because everyone has a stake in it, if you're the sole maker and developer, you carry all of the risk from the investment standpoint, especially in the tooling up phase.
-Same situation with Fuel Cell cars, Outside money does not like this kind of risk.

3,  LMCL can do FULL FIELD HDR Luminance.  If you sent a 1000nit white screen to an OLED tv, it will output at best ~200nits due to power limitations,  an LMCL LCD will blast you with the full field 1000nit exactly as intended.

4,  LMCL is backlit, it can utilize Ultra Low Motion Blur (ULMB) and All other backlight strobe technologies which will eventually match the motion clarity that of CRT.

- While it is theoretically also doable on OLED, It will be significantly Lagging behind the possible brightness outputs of an LCD for quite some time. OLED will simply BURN OUT too quickly even at 1000nits at the moment, while LCDs can already do 3000-10,000 nits (the entire rec2020 spec) if you have the wallet to pay for such a tv.. A technology that's well understood and ALREADY POSSIBLE. Whereas such technology isn't even close to existing from the self emmisive OLED side.

- This goes back to the money side, As LMCL absorbs consumer dollars, OLED will be left in the dust. OLED tech can not be developed quickly enough against the already superior prospects of LMCL.

5,  Critically, MOST IMPORTANTLY,  ALL Hollywood Studio MASTERING Monitors in the future will be LMCL

-  Sony has already discontinued the HX300 Oled master mon,  replaced with HX310, LMCL (a panasonic panel).   

-  Panasonic also released their 55 inch LMCL Mastering Monitor named Megacon for mega-contrast. 

-  These LMCL monitors will be the Tools from the creator side.  NONE of the content creators will be using OLEDs,  Why should the Consumers buy anything else. 

-  The Video content both streaming and Bluray(4KHDR) are NOT color graded on or for OLED.


OLED = Dead


Offline tp4tissue

  • * Destiny Supporter
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 13378
  • Location: Official Geekhack Public Defender..
  • OmniExpert of: Rice, Top-Ramen, Ergodox, n Females
Re: Hisense LMCL, the OLED DESTROYER. [CES 2020 txt wall]
« Reply #1 on: Mon, 13 January 2020, 20:36:46 »
OMG, hisense and tcl are both doing miniled wall panels too.  If only Tp4 had $5,000,000.. Would get wall panels.

Offline noisyturtle

  • * Exalted Elder
  • Posts: 6198
  • comfortably numb
Re: Hisense LMCL, the OLED DESTROYER. [CES 2020 txt wall]
« Reply #2 on: Mon, 13 January 2020, 21:39:34 »
No normal person is gonna buy a tv that's much more than $2k

That's why Samsung has warehouses of Q series they can't move. Zero people are buying their $15k tvs, and what did they expect?

Offline tp4tissue

  • * Destiny Supporter
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 13378
  • Location: Official Geekhack Public Defender..
  • OmniExpert of: Rice, Top-Ramen, Ergodox, n Females
Re: Hisense LMCL, the OLED DESTROYER. [CES 2020 txt wall]
« Reply #3 on: Tue, 14 January 2020, 00:45:14 »
No normal person is gonna buy a tv that's much more than $2k

That's why Samsung has warehouses of Q series they can't move. Zero people are buying their $15k tvs, and what did they expect?

where all dat Rich Gekhrs @ ??

I didn't know about this warehouse full of Qled,  hopefully they letum' loose soon, would buy one.

Offline Coreda

  • Posts: 743
Re: Hisense LMCL, the OLED DESTROYER. [CES 2020 txt wall]
« Reply #4 on: Tue, 14 January 2020, 00:52:50 »
Searched DDG for 'Hisense LMCL' first result is from doom9, I read the result text, Soon, LMCL LCD from Hisense.. Affordable + no burnin. Oled can finally die.

Think to myself, 'could this be tp?' Sure enough it was. You seem to be the only one abbreviating the tech like that :P

Very interesting development if they've achieved that many dimming zones. Truly what it really needed to benefit the most tbh, though I doubt it'd become mainstream if there's a 'good enough' alternative.

Offline tp4tissue

  • * Destiny Supporter
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 13378
  • Location: Official Geekhack Public Defender..
  • OmniExpert of: Rice, Top-Ramen, Ergodox, n Females
Re: Hisense LMCL, the OLED DESTROYER. [CES 2020 txt wall]
« Reply #5 on: Tue, 14 January 2020, 10:01:32 »
Searched DDG for 'Hisense LMCL' first result is from doom9, I read the result text, Soon, LMCL LCD from Hisense.. Affordable + no burnin. Oled can finally die.

Think to myself, 'could this be tp?' Sure enough it was. You seem to be the only one abbreviating the tech like that :P

Very interesting development if they've achieved that many dimming zones. Truly what it really needed to benefit the most tbh, though I doubt it'd become mainstream if there's a 'good enough' alternative.

Tp4 on the forefront of Videographic Critique..

The reason it's only 2 million zones right now, instead of say full 8 million zones,  is because of Power requirement laws.

If they made the light occlusion lcd layer 8 million pixels, they would lower light transmission efficiency significantly.   it'll still be way BRIGHTER than OLED,  but given the regulations where it is, using a 1920x1080 grid makes for a more power efficient system.

But all the tech (tooling + infrastructure) already exists to do full 8 million zones on 4K , 33.1 million zones on 8K.  They could release such a thing this year if people had the money for it.  Of course, it would be classified under Industrial display to get around the power limitation laws of consumer line tv.


Offline Sintpinty

  • Carbon Based Life Form
  • Posts: 1604
  • Location: A can of beans in the cupboard
  • She/they
    • My promotion link
Re: Hisense LMCL, the OLED DESTROYER. [CES 2020 txt wall]
« Reply #6 on: Wed, 15 January 2020, 07:55:49 »
No normal person is gonna buy a tv that's much more than $2k

That's why Samsung has warehouses of Q series they can't move. Zero people are buying their $15k tvs, and what did they expect?

where all dat Rich Gekhrs @ ??

I didn't know about this warehouse full of Qled,  hopefully they letum' loose soon, would buy one.


No normal person is gonna buy a tv that's much more than $2k

That's why Samsung has warehouses of Q series they can't move. Zero people are buying their $15k tvs, and what did they expect?

My parents got that for their home theatre

Offline yui

  • Posts: 967
  • Location: 127.0.0.1 (in azerty)
Re: Hisense LMCL, the OLED DESTROYER. [CES 2020 txt wall]
« Reply #7 on: Wed, 15 January 2020, 09:11:47 »
If they made the light occlusion lcd layer 8 million pixels, they would lower light transmission efficiency significantly.   it'll still be way BRIGHTER than OLED,  but given the regulations where it is, using a 1920x1080 grid makes for a more power efficient system.

[/size][/color][/font]

the thing i am wondering about is will they make a 1080p monitor with that tech in it would be great for doom and cyberpunk (or other high contrast games), if it can handle high frames that is. It seems that it may from what i see on the internet.

vi vi vi - the roman number of the beast (Plan9 fortune)

Offline tp4tissue

  • * Destiny Supporter
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 13378
  • Location: Official Geekhack Public Defender..
  • OmniExpert of: Rice, Top-Ramen, Ergodox, n Females
Re: Hisense LMCL, the OLED DESTROYER. [CES 2020 txt wall]
« Reply #8 on: Wed, 15 January 2020, 09:58:51 »

the thing i am wondering about is will they make a 1080p monitor with that tech in it would be great for doom and cyberpunk (or other high contrast games), if it can handle high frames that is. It seems that it may from what i see on the internet.


Right now, the only legit use case for 1080p is 240hz, 300hz esports gaming.

For every other use of the PC, including casual gaming, 2560x1440 or 4K are better resolutions.

We haven't had too many high refresh 4K monitors because of hdmi 2.0 limit, but come 2.1, that problem will be solved.

Most esports titles can reach 120fps+ @ 4K on the latest cards, and come hdmi 2.1 cards, that will definitely be the case.

LMCL's role in gaming is a certainty when LMCL becomes ubiquitous. For near future,  Timing 2 lcds is definitely more difficult and there will be a slight motion blur penalty because the first and second panel have different response times.

Even if that's true though, ~100-120hz still produces the best motion clarity on the latest 240hz SINGLE ips panels.   Which means, we're going to ride out 120hz for a very long time.

Because cards will be able to do 120fps @ 4K (esport titles), it might not make much sense to market the 1080p lmcl BY THE TIME hdmi 2.1 fills the bandwidth gap.

Offline yui

  • Posts: 967
  • Location: 127.0.0.1 (in azerty)
Re: Hisense LMCL, the OLED DESTROYER. [CES 2020 txt wall]
« Reply #9 on: Thu, 16 January 2020, 08:19:48 »

Right now, the only legit use case for 1080p is 240hz, 300hz esports gaming.

For every other use of the PC, including casual gaming, 2560x1440 or 4K are better resolutions.

We haven't had too many high refresh 4K monitors because of hdmi 2.0 limit, but come 2.1, that problem will be solved.

Most esports titles can reach 120fps+ @ 4K on the latest cards, and come hdmi 2.1 cards, that will definitely be the case.

LMCL's role in gaming is a certainty when LMCL becomes ubiquitous. For near future,  Timing 2 lcds is definitely more difficult and there will be a slight motion blur penalty because the first and second panel have different response times.

Even if that's true though, ~100-120hz still produces the best motion clarity on the latest 240hz SINGLE ips panels.   Which means, we're going to ride out 120hz for a very long time.

Because cards will be able to do 120fps @ 4K (esport titles), it might not make much sense to market the 1080p lmcl BY THE TIME hdmi 2.1 fills the bandwidth gap.


well not everyone has the latest and greatest card, and there is places (smaller screens, 22in or under) where 4k may just be adding power consumption(pc and dsp working harder to processes more data) and not really improving much of anything else, why would this kind of benefit only for peoples who have the beast pc capable of pushing the 4k and paying the electricity bill at the end of the month?
vi vi vi - the roman number of the beast (Plan9 fortune)

Offline tp4tissue

  • * Destiny Supporter
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 13378
  • Location: Official Geekhack Public Defender..
  • OmniExpert of: Rice, Top-Ramen, Ergodox, n Females
Re: Hisense LMCL, the OLED DESTROYER. [CES 2020 txt wall]
« Reply #10 on: Thu, 16 January 2020, 11:02:15 »

well not everyone has the latest and greatest card, and there is places (smaller screens, 22in or under) where 4k may just be adding power consumption(pc and dsp working harder to processes more data) and not really improving much of anything else, why would this kind of benefit only for peoples who have the beast pc capable of pushing the 4k and paying the electricity bill at the end of the month?


You're right, For Mobile, 1080p still make sense for battery.

A super gud' laptop screen may not be much of a priority though because it's just too small to fully enjoy movies and games on.

SO, it's like having a really fast car while driving in 3rd world dirt roads, you're not goin' very fast.

Then there's cost.

The way they're pricing the UPSELL on premium laptop screens is + $700 for OLED + $300 for high-quality IPS.

If you took $300 and bought a TV you can get a 50inch 4K HDR

If you took $700,  you can get 65-75 inch 4K HDR

So... it doesn't make sense to spend the extra cash on a Better 15inch laptop screen for Gaming/ Movies.