Wow, this is worse than Civil War Stats.

[tp4tissue]

Between 50-88% of Patients who require Ventilators didn't make it. <New York>

In comparison, Civil War surgeons had mortality rates of ~25-30%.. in the 1860s

//Gasp...!!

[Coreda]

They've been finding that the use of ventilators may be detrimental but it doesn't seem there's a consensus just front line observations.

One reason is that contrary to expectations, a number of doctors at New York hospitals believe intubation is helping fewer people with Covid-19 than other respiratory illnesses and that longer stays on the mechanical ventilators lead to other serious complications. The matter is far from settled.

“Intubated patients with Covid lung disease are doing very poorly, and while this may be the disease and not the mechanical ventilation, most of us believe that intubation is to be avoided until unequivocally required,” Dr. Strayer said.

I read a similar cautionary article elsewhere but unlike this NYT piece it didn't cite its sources.

[Maledicted]

Between 50-88% of Patients who require Ventilators didn't make it. <New York>

In comparison, Civil War surgeons had mortality rates of ~25-30%.. in the 1860s

//Gasp...!!

I had heard the same about the dubious benefits of a ventilator. Another thing I have read is that most of the people who have died have a combination of serious illnesses, like heart disease, diabetes, etc. Some are even saying that many of the people who have succumbed to the illness may have had little time left either way. People who are overweight also apparently are more likely to have breathing difficulties than others.

Isn't it hard to compare this to the Civil War? I imagine most of the mortalities in Civil War surgeries were from infection, since we hadn't really figured out sterilization and antiseptics.

[tp4tissue]

From a German Article (on Covid Autopsies):

The majority of the patients were very overweight, says the expert
In Switzerland, pathologists, depending on the equipment of the autopsy rooms and "depending on the courage", have so far autopsied, as Alexandar Tzankov says, head of the autopsy department at the university hospital in Basel. So far 20 people who died of Covid 19 have been autopsied there, and Tzankov already wants to recognize patterns in the diagnoses. "All those examined had high blood pressure," says the professor, "a large proportion of the patients were also severely obese, ie clearly overweight. And it was mainly men. More than two thirds had previously damaged coronary arteries, a third had diabetes.

In addition to clarifying the previous illnesses, the doctors around Tzankov also examined damage to the lung tissue of the deceased. "Few patients had pneumonia," he says, "but what we saw under the microscope was a serious disruption to the lung's microcirculation." That means that the oxygen exchange no longer works, and explain the difficulties in ventilating Covid-19 patients in the intensive care units: "You can give the patient as much oxygen as you want, and he will simply not be transported any further. " It is unclear whether the findings could have been taken into account earlier in the treatment of intensive care patients.

[Maledicted]

From a German Article (on Covid Autopsies):

The majority of the patients were very overweight, says the expert
In Switzerland, pathologists, depending on the equipment of the autopsy rooms and "depending on the courage", have so far autopsied, as Alexandar Tzankov says, head of the autopsy department at the university hospital in Basel. So far 20 people who died of Covid 19 have been autopsied there, and Tzankov already wants to recognize patterns in the diagnoses. "All those examined had high blood pressure," says the professor, "a large proportion of the patients were also severely obese, ie clearly overweight. And it was mainly men. More than two thirds had previously damaged coronary arteries, a third had diabetes.

In addition to clarifying the previous illnesses, the doctors around Tzankov also examined damage to the lung tissue of the deceased. "Few patients had pneumonia," he says, "but what we saw under the microscope was a serious disruption to the lung's microcirculation." That means that the oxygen exchange no longer works, and explain the difficulties in ventilating Covid-19 patients in the intensive care units: "You can give the patient as much oxygen as you want, and he will simply not be transported any further. " It is unclear whether the findings could have been taken into account earlier in the treatment of intensive care patients.

Good stuff, nice find.

[Coreda]

From a German Article (on Covid Autopsies):

Do you have a link to the original? I'd be interested as I tried searching and all I could find was a single English article but searching for names and quotes didn't return anything else.

[fohat.digs]

I read a similar cautionary article elsewhere

This one gives a relatively simple explanation of how the lung damage caused by the disease is different and why intubation is more harmful:

https://www.statnews.com/2020/04/21/coronavirus-analysis-recommends-less-reliance-on-ventilators/

[tp4tissue]

From a German Article (on Covid Autopsies):

Do you have a link to the original? I'd be interested as I tried searching and all I could find was a single English article but searching for names and quotes didn't return anything else.

https://www.sueddeutsche.de/politik/coronavirus-covid-19-tote-1.4884154

[fohat.digs]

Here is another clear and concise explanation that I just came across:

https://www.livescience.com/silent-hypoxia-killing-covid-19-coronavirus-patients.html

[tp4tissue]

Here is another clear and concise explanation that I just came across:

https://www.livescience.com/silent-hypoxia-killing-covid-19-coronavirus-patients.html

Article says 90% oxygenation is getting Dicey,  and even some patients at 80% seems well-conscious, despite being in the Danger Zone.

Hrrrrrm......  Well oxygenation is pretty easy to track.. the little meters are ~$50 on amaz

Is there a reputable brand for these ?


Wait.... a minute.. OMG, almost forgot,  Samsung fones have a health meter, and it measures oxygenation under the stats tab.

This is the same type of meter used in the little finger clips. 

[tp4tissue]

Just measured, Tp4 @ 98% oxygenation.

On the latest Samsung Health software update, the Oxygenation is under the "Stress Measurement Tab"

[Maledicted]

Just measured, Tp4 @ 98% oxygenation.

On the latest Samsung Health software update, the Oxygenation is under the "Stress Measurement Tab"

Show Image

I'm still rocking an S5 with daily builds of Lineage OS 16.0 (Android 9). I like having that IR blaster for turning on random crap in the district that I have no idea where a remote may be for it. I doubt it has that functionality. How would a phone even measure such a thing?

[tp4tissue]

Just measured, Tp4 @ 98% oxygenation.

On the latest Samsung Health software update, the Oxygenation is under the "Stress Measurement Tab"

Show Image

I'm still rocking an S5 with daily builds of Lineage OS 16.0 (Android 9). I like having that IR blaster for turning on random crap in the district that I have no idea where a remote may be for it. I doubt it has that functionality. How would a phone even measure such a thing?

Tp4 haz an S5 as well,  just checked, it has the heart rate measurement, but no oxygenation.

But according to hardware specs, the part they used should be able to do both, the Note4 for example can do it and it has the same part.

Sooo... yea, seems like s6 or newer is required for the oxygenation feature.

Phones can do it because of Pulse oximetry,  you have 2 leds one red, one infrared, and you have a photosensor assembly tuned to those wavelengths, and you can get penetrative reading on thin parts of skin, such as earlobes and fingers.

[Maledicted]

Just measured, Tp4 @ 98% oxygenation.

On the latest Samsung Health software update, the Oxygenation is under the "Stress Measurement Tab"

Show Image

I'm still rocking an S5 with daily builds of Lineage OS 16.0 (Android 9). I like having that IR blaster for turning on random crap in the district that I have no idea where a remote may be for it. I doubt it has that functionality. How would a phone even measure such a thing?

Tp4 haz an S5 as well,  just checked, it has the heart rate measurement, but no oxygenation.

But according to hardware specs, the part they used should be able to do both, the Note4 for example can do it and it has the same part.

Sooo... yea, seems like s6 or newer is required for the oxygenation feature.

Phones can do it because of Pulse oximetry,  you have 2 leds one red, one infrared, and you have a photosensor assembly tuned to those wavelengths, and you can get penetrative reading on thin parts of skin, such as earlobes and fingers.

Interesting. It is too bad nobody seems to make phones with features people want/need anymore. It would be just my luck that my phone of choice is the cutoff in the Samsung line to help detect Covid difficulties.

[tp4tissue]

Interesting. It is too bad nobody seems to make phones with features people want/need anymore. It would be just my luck that my phone of choice is the cutoff in the Samsung line to help detect Covid difficulties.

Hahahahaha. just buy a meter off amazon dawg.. The budget ones run $20-30, xpensive one ~$50..   

Sigh.... If only we both had 2080Tis,  the world would be right.

[Maledicted]

Interesting. It is too bad nobody seems to make phones with features people want/need anymore. It would be just my luck that my phone of choice is the cutoff in the Samsung line to help detect Covid difficulties.

Hahahahaha. just buy a meter off amazon dawg.. The budget ones run $20-30, xpensive one ~$50..   

Sigh.... If only we both had 2080Tis,  the world would be right.

I'll consider it. I know I kind of want one of those UV wands. I have wanted one for the flu seasons even before this mess hit the fan. I touch way too many student devices. I'm not sure how effective a hand-held one would be though, without giving me Melanoma. You win some you lose some I suppose.

I have a 1070, and I'm still gaming in 1920x1080. I may look at an upgrade once I build a new rig in a converted XPS 720 chassis though, especially if I get a Valve Index.

[tp4tissue]

UV wands.

Tp4 just bought the UV bulb, and threw it in a box lined with Aluminum foil.

Picked some grass and flowers outside. Put them in the box.  It killed them within an hour, so I'm reasonably sure these bulbs work.

[Coreda]

https://www.sueddeutsche.de/politik/coronavirus-covid-19-tote-1.4884154

https://www.livescience.com/silent-hypoxia-killing-covid-19-coronavirus-patients.html

Thanks.

[Kavik]

I am wondering how I would fare in this situation. I have a hereditary blood disorder that makes my resting O2 saturation in the 70% range (I've seen it as low as 50%), but it causes no deleterious effects. I don't know if my adaptation to low blood oxygen would help me resist death or if this disease would just make my O2 saturation go *even lower* and just outright kill me.

[Maledicted]

I am wondering how I would fare in this situation. I have a hereditary blood disorder that makes my resting O2 saturation in the 70% range (I've seen it as low as 50%), but it causes no deleterious effects. I don't know if my adaptation to low blood oxygen would help me resist death or if this disease would just make my O2 saturation go *even lower* and just outright kill me.

Whatever the case, I wish you luck. I hope you don't have to go out into the apocalypse very often.

[tp4tissue]

I am wondering how I would fare in this situation. I have a hereditary blood disorder that makes my resting O2 saturation in the 70% range (I've seen it as low as 50%), but it causes no deleterious effects. I don't know if my adaptation to low blood oxygen would help me resist death or if this disease would just make my O2 saturation go *even lower* and just outright kill me.