The which switch is best thread.

[FerretBuster]

/discuss. Pro's and con's.

Please don't let this be a repeat of my previous thread


IMO: Browns, epic lightness, but with the subtle bump to make for responsive ergonomic typing.

[PixelVandalism]

Blues and ergo clears please.

[FerretBuster]

Blues and ergo clears please.

But why?

[PixelVandalism]

But why?

Because I enjoy how they feel? why else?

[Aranair]

Because I enjoy how they feel? why else?

But surely, there must be a reason why you enjoy how they feel?

Anyways, browns for now: for just about the same reason as above. They are extremely light yet still provide that tactile bump so I don't have to bottom out.

[limmy]

There is no objective best. If you like it best, it is best for you. I am guessing what you want to know is why a person chose certain switch as their best.

I like Topre the best because
1. it comes with nice PBT key caps (not all PBT key caps are the same. I certainly prefer Topre caps to PBT caps on Poker. I think Signature plastics PBT caps are comparable to that of Topre)
2. it has tactile feel that is not linear -- or any other linear like upward trending tactile feel from Cherry switches
3. when I bottom out it is softer because the sliders are hitting rubber sheet instead of hard plastic
4. it is easy to do maintenance -- you don't have to desolder to open up and do cleaning and do stuff

I like Cherry switches as well.. I just like Topre switches better.
I moded my Poker to have similar feel to Topres by changing keycaps, doing o-ring mod, and like the outcome so far.

[hella]

After five months of being on geekhack I would have guessed the OP would have enough common sense to avoid posting a series of newbish threads.  Anyway, we haven't had a thread like this for a while so I'll play along.

While I'm using a Cherry MX Blue board right now my favorite switch is the buckling spring.  It's smooth, seamless tactility (unlike the MX Blues, which "notch" on the upstroke) is second to none and I love the actuation force.  I personally love it's "thocky" sound.  Blues are too light for my taste, and while they're not bad switches they don't quite satisfy my needs.  Don't get me wrong, I still prefer blues over any other cherry switch.

They're cheap, well made, and last forever.  PBT keycaps are also a plus.  Too bad the ergonomic M15 versions aren't more common as I'd love to use that board as a daily driver.

[PixelVandalism]

But surely, there must be a reason why you enjoy how they feel?

Anyways, browns for now: for just about the same reason as above. They are extremely light yet still provide that tactile bump so I don't have to bottom out.

Tactility > Almost no tactility > Linear

[HaiiYaa]

I like topre switches the best because there's nothing to dislike about them and they are fun to type on. They feel very smooth and bottoming out feels great

All the cherry switches feel "hard" when you bottom out and there is always some kind of friction from the spring you can feel.

Blues are annoying for gaming.

Browns are boring but pretty good for both gaming and typing but very boring.

Reds makes you bottom out all the time and make spelling errors

Blacks are good for gaming but for typing they can get annoying after a while.

Ghetto reds are like reds, they just feel a little smoother or maybe I tried a lubricated one.

Clears are very tiring to type on.

MX Clears with Brown springs felt annoying to type on.

MX Greens are too tiring to type on.

[Autolyze]

All the switches are the best. We're all winners! :smile:

It depends on my mood, but right now I feel like Topre for typing, MX reds for gaming, and BS for expressing nerdrage on the Internet.

[thegunner100]

There's plenty of newbie threads asking about which mech keyboard they should get. There really isnt much of a reason for this thread, but I'll go along as well...

I like blues for the tactility and the clicking, but there really isnt a "best" switch.

[Battou62]

I have been enjoying my Rosewill reds more than my Leopold browns.

[Chobopants]

Guess we're in that stage of the Geekhack cycle. The winter lurkers are getting saucy and posting threads like this. Ripster has given up and doesn't even mention the wikis anymore.

P.S. to the OP...the wikis are pretty good also there is so much established discussion and knowledge on these forums that nothing useful can come from this thread.

[funkymeeba]

Right now, I would have to say that clears are my favorite. People say they're too stiff, but I find that they do half the work for me when it comes to typing. I just float across them like it's nothing. To me, browns feel like falling off a god damn cliff, and they aren't comfortable. Blues are pretty fantastic, I just wish they were a slight bit heavier.

[Glukos]

I like topre switches the best because there's nothing to dislike about them and they are fun to type on. They feel very smooth and bottoming out feels great

All the cherry switches feel "hard" when you bottom out and there is always some kind of friction from the spring you can feel.

Blues are annoying for gaming.

Browns are boring but pretty good for both gaming and typing but very boring.

Reds makes you bottom out all the time and make spelling errors

Blacks are good for gaming but for typing they can get annoying after a while.

Ghetto reds are like reds, they just feel a little smoother or maybe I tried a lubricated one.

Clears are very tiring to type on.

MX Clears with Brown springs felt annoying to type on.

MX Greens are too tiring to type on.

this

[tp4tissue]

Right now, I would have to say that clears are my favorite. People say they're too stiff, but I find that they do half the work for me when it comes to typing. I just float across them like it's nothing. To me, browns feel like falling off a god damn cliff, and they aren't comfortable. Blues are pretty fantastic, I just wish they were a slight bit heavier.

I like your analogy of falling down a damn cliff.

Blues are indeed the best MX switch.. I've yet to try topre,, looking for a place to try ....

[Magna224]

My favorites are MX Clears, ALPS, and MX Blacks. I like the Clears because they have a heavy tactile feeling and are not easy to bottom out on. Even with their toughness they have a soft feel to them though. I love ALPS because of that REALLY strong tactile feel and I can pound on them. The MX Blacks because of that smoooth empty feel, I kind of like it as a change of pace from my usual tactile keyboards. The amount of force doesn't really matter to me unless its something ridiculous like 90g+. I pretty much like every switch but the Futaba switch, sorry any lovers out there, and black ALPS didn't impress me all that much but it was kind of a neutral feel.

[fohat.digs]

My big ole Model F 122-key terminal beats everything else's pants off.

I test drove a couple of my immaculate bolt-modded Model Ms for a few days, before handing one off to my son, and there was this huge "Ahhhhh" when I got back on the F, no comparison.

This battleship is the ****. Model Ms are wimpy toys in comparison.

You can imagine where I will go from here. I need tactile feedback, and I have a bunch of other keyboards.

Cherry blues are decent but chintzy in comparison to buckling springs. Alps can be good, especially white and pink, and I have never typed on the blues.

I have a real soft spot for Monterey blues, but the Chicony 5181 is poorly made and the SIIG MiniTouch has a weird uncomfortable layout.

At the other end of the spectrum, my wife, a writer, only wants the most recent product from Apple, and is totally attached to this tiny thin aluminum thing that has flat keys that travel of a couple of angstroms at most. She hates my keyboards ("big ole clicky things" she calls them) and you would have to admit that her opinion is valid, too.

Lastly, since I have never gamed, there is a whole other realm out there that I know nothing about.

[daerid]

Right now I like the Topre 45g switch best. It's just solid and easy to type on. I didn't think I'd like the mushiness of bottoming out on rubber, but somehow Topre has made it feel awesome. And the sound is quite addicting.
After that would be Cherry MX Brown, followed by Cherry MX Red. Browns have a great feel to them. Going to try mine today with the 40A o-rings and see how it feels. Reds are just an amazing switch for gaming on. Not so much for typing. I tend to make more mistakes with them. I have to be in the mood for blues, but when I am, they are satisfying as hell.

I'm going to wait for Unicomp to release a tenkeyless buckling spring, order a new one, and then see where it fits in the hierarchy.

[sordna]

Cherry MX reds is the best cherry switch if you are concerned about RSI.

[mehkat1974]

In order of preference, keyboards I have owned:
Topre 55g (current main board only 4 days old) > Blues (Filco) > Topre variable (sold it) > Reds (Poker, using right now btw) > Blacks - only switch I really don't like, sold it after 2 days use

[sordna]

Maltron did and still does use black cherries. Probably one of the reasons they are not very popular keyboards (along with their pricing). They have been around for years, before cherry reds came about... their choice to go with linears for this type of board was good by the way, and I wouldn't be surprised if they actually offer reds upon request nowdays.

Datahand is a completely different beast and uses special ultra light switches (non cherry), way lighter than cherry reds. Google datahand images and you'll understand why.

[hella]

Cherry MX reds is the best cherry switch if you are concerned about RSI.

This is not necessarily true.  The only clinical studies on keyswitches and their effects on RSI concluded that buckling springs reduced joint and muscle fatigue in comparison to rubber dome keyboards.

While this doesn't sound surprising on the surface, I was somewhat surprised with these results since the rubber dome keyboard has a 50g actuation force while the buckling spring keyboard had a 70g actuation force.  You can speculate that this infers that actuation forces are not the only factors that contribute to joint and muscle fatigue, which the authors inferred to cause RSI.

The authors hypothesized that the tactility of the buckling spring boards had a huge part to do with the reduced muscle fatigue because the typist would know when their switch had fired and when to stop applying pressure to the keys.  Conversely, they hypothesized that the non-tactility of the rubber dome made users more likely to bottom out which transferred more stress to the muscles and joints.

Interesting read.  As a kinesiology major it was interesting finding this article.  If you're interested in reading it I can dig and find it somewhere.  It should be available on pubmed.

There's a lot of other **** on geekhack that goes by heresay.  Trulyergonomic keyboards included.  Their wavy pattern is no better than a regular split, un-wavy and regular staggered keyboard, no matter what their poorly drawn keyboard comparison says.

[limmy]

This is not necessarily true.  The only clinical studies on keyswitches and their effects on RSI concluded that buckling springs reduced joint and muscle fatigue in comparison to rubber dome keyboards.

While this doesn't sound surprising on the surface, I was somewhat surprised with these results since the rubber dome keyboard has a 50g actuation force while the buckling spring keyboard had a 70g actuation force.  You can speculate that this infers that actuation forces are not the only factors that contribute to joint and muscle fatigue, which the authors inferred to cause RSI.

The authors hypothesized that the tactility of the buckling spring boards had a huge part to do with the reduced muscle fatigue because the typist would know when their switch had fired and when to stop applying pressure to the keys.  Conversely, they hypothesized that the non-tactility of the rubber dome made users more likely to bottom out which transferred more stress to the muscles and joints.

Interesting read.  As a kinesiology major it was interesting finding this article.  If you're interested in reading it I can dig and find it somewhere.  It should be available on pubmed.

There's a lot of other **** on geekhack that goes by heresay.  Trulyergonomic keyboards included.  Their wavy pattern is no better than a regular split, un-wavy and regular staggered keyboard, no matter what their poorly drawn keyboard comparison says.

So, there is only one study and no other studies on this topic? That is surprising.. The rubber-dome membrane keyboards require you to push down and bottom out for the keys to be actuated so I could understand the conclusion of the study, but the study's hypothesis that non-tactility of rubber dome causing to bottom out hence causing stress doesn't seem to be a good explanation to me. I think most stress is coming from exerting force onto hard surface, which is not necessary in Cherry or Topre switches(see exceptions below). By the time you bottom out, you are not putting extra force, but your finger is moving due to inertia, which in my opinion wouldn't cause too much pain in muscles. I am not an expert in this topic, so I might as well be wrong, but that is what I feel is going on.

I am using Cherry Reds when my fingers get tired, and from my experience it is pretty comfortable. It could be that I feel comfort because I am using different muscles than the ones I use for my HHKB, but one thing I know is that my fingers don't hurt from bottoming out on Reds. However, for certain keys linear switches are tiring for the reason mentioned in the study. For instance, control and shift keys that I press longer than momentary period, the reds were indeed tiring. I replaced the red switches with blues for tactile feedback and I like the combination pretty much.

[yttrium]

I like browns - light, but not too light, and they provide a good tactile bump without the sacrifice of being good for gaming.

It's only a preference, though.

Blacks require too much force and I hate linear, and blues provide a little bit too much feedback to me - not to mention they're not too good for games (especially an RTS).

[Shogunner]

Blues because they sound like OFFICE~

[sordna]

I can believe that buckling spring are healthier than rubber domes, but perhaps not because of the tactility, but rather the sound. I use reds, perfectly linear, in a Kinesis Advantage which produces an electronic "click" sound from a piezo speaker when the key actuates, and find myself bottoming out much more if I turn the sound off. There's a lot of factors at play here, it would be really interesting if someone made a serious study about all this!
What I can say for sure is my hands feel much better after a long session on reds rather than browns.

[kps]

This thread is silly. Everyone knows IBM beam springs are the best switches.

[noisyturtle]

Another vote for mx Browns, best of both worlds. Blues are far too noisy, and Reds feel much too light for my tastes, and Blacks... well, **** mx Black. I've never tried Clears, or even seen any in stores to test so I can't speak on them.

[megnin]

MX Browns are best.  So say we all.

[hashbaz]

Personally I dislike browns.  The "bump" just feels gritty.  I like blues because they are loud, and reds because they are light.  Don't like clears or blacks, too heavy for my taste.  Strangely though I do like buckling springs, again mainly because of the noise.

Topre switches are lovely but I still enjoy cycling between my Realforce/HHKB and my Cherry switch keyboards.

[yttrium]

So say we all!

[tehsprayer]

Blues. If you don't like the click get o-rings!

-- Sent from my Palm Pre using Forums

[tp4tissue]

Blues. If you don't like the click get o-rings!

-- Sent from my Palm Pre using Forums

My experience so far, I feel like the blues are perceptively louder now that I put in my orings. While the bottoming sound is gone, the higher frequency clicks now come through loud and clear,,

O-rings make blues perceptively louder

[Bird]

high frequency? ever did a fourier transform to prove?

[hella]

Ripster, I know you used to be a buckling spring fanatic way back in the day.  What made your preferences change to the cherry mx blues?

[daerid]

Oh boy. I can officially say now: Cherry MX keys (red/blue/brown) with O-rings feel absolutely horrible. SO WRONG.

[Awful]

Dunno if it's been said but


My switch choice is best.

Yours is the worst.

[captain]

Despite their being rubber domes, the Topres are pretty nice. All of the whack, none of the clack.

I think I will be removing the orings from my blues. The reduced travel is not worth the slight reduction in clack. Orings should be battered and fried, and kept far away from my keyboards!

[demik]

blues and greens.

[hashbaz]

Oh boy. I can officially say now: Cherry MX keys (red/blue/brown) with O-rings feel absolutely horrible. SO WRONG.

Agreed, they are nasty.

[sordna]

Oh boy. I can officially say now: Cherry MX keys (red/blue/brown) with O-rings feel absolutely horrible. SO WRONG.

Agreed, they are nasty.

What type/size did you use? I find them simply wonderful! They just soften the very last half milimiter of travel, and have no effect whatsoever if you don't bottom out.

[daerid]

What type/size did you use? I find them simply wonderful! They just soften the very last half milimiter of travel, and have no effect whatsoever if you don't bottom out.

While true, they remove everything I love about Cherry MX keys: the feel of bottoming out. Granted, I don't do it that hard, but that tiny little bit translates into a feel of the key being very solid. The 40A o-rings kinda made my skin crawl.

[demik]

While true, they remove everything I love about Cherry MX keys: the feel of bottoming out. Granted, I don't do it that hard, but that tiny little bit translates into a feel of the key being very solid. The 40A o-rings kinda made my skin crawl.

we're talking about cherry corp keys right? i completely agree. they felt like crap when i put them on. there was like no travel and it just felt dull.

[thegunner100]

we're talking about cherry corp keys right? i completely agree. they felt like crap when i put them on. there was like no travel and it just felt dull.

Interesting point there. I took off the 40A o-rings from my imsto thick keycaps(cherry profile) and noticed the significance difference between the travel distance. Its alot more noticeable on keycaps with cherry keycaps than on keycaps with filco profile.

[daerid]

I had them on a set of white engraved PBT's that I bought off imsto. Just couldn't get into it. On a key like Topre, the soft bottom-out actually is part of the overall feel and adds to the experience. However, IMO rubber has no place getting near a Cherry MX key.

[tp4tissue]

I had them on a set of white engraved PBT's that I bought off imsto. Just couldn't get into it. On a key like Topre, the soft bottom-out actually is part of the overall feel and adds to the experience. However, IMO rubber has no place getting near a Cherry MX key.

Damn it dude,, this is just getting silly now....

[sordna]

Interesting point there. I took off the 40A o-rings from my imsto thick keycaps(cherry profile) and noticed the significance difference between the travel distance. Its alot more noticeable on keycaps with cherry keycaps than on keycaps with filco profile.

Yup, cherry corp keycaps need thinner o-rings because they have shorter stems. Try 5mm x 1.5mm thick (metric) o-rings, which are a bit thinner than the usual 008 ones.