Author Topic: Why the difference in activation/reset point on blue switches?  (Read 1951 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline karljs

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 84
Why the difference in activation/reset point on blue switches?
« on: Fri, 14 September 2012, 21:32:44 »
I disassembled a blue switch today, just to check it out, and was surprised to note that the white plastic bits that rub against the metal are not symmetric. I imagine this is what causes the reset and activation points to differ somewhat. Unless I'm wrong, that means it was an intentional design decision, right?

I've always found it a bit of an annoyance and it's one of the main reasons I don't really like typing on blues.

Offline tp4tissue

  • * Destiny Supporter
  • Posts: 13721
  • Location: Official Geekhack Public Defender..
  • OmniExpert of: Rice, Top-Ramen, Ergodox, n Females
Re: Why the difference in activation/reset point on blue switches?
« Reply #1 on: Fri, 14 September 2012, 22:34:02 »
I disassembled a blue switch today, just to check it out, and was surprised to note that the white plastic bits that rub against the metal are not symmetric. I imagine this is what causes the reset and activation points to differ somewhat. Unless I'm wrong, that means it was an intentional design decision, right?

I've always found it a bit of an annoyance and it's one of the main reasons I don't really like typing on blues.

which part are you referring to that's "not" symmetrical.

post pics and circle.

Offline jeroplane

  • Posts: 547
  • Location: Australia
Re: Why the difference in activation/reset point on blue switches?
« Reply #2 on: Fri, 14 September 2012, 23:07:32 »
^This. Which part do you mean on this diagram:


My signature hasn't changed since 2012. I should really update it.

Offline karljs

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 84
Re: Why the difference in activation/reset point on blue switches?
« Reply #3 on: Fri, 14 September 2012, 23:40:43 »
Sorry for the poor description. I'm talking about the plastic part touching the spring circled in red.



From the angle shown here you can't tell, but there are two tabs that make contact. They appear to have a bump in slightly different places.

Offline rowdy

  • HHKB Hapster
  • * Erudite Elder
  • Posts: 21175
  • Location: melbourne.vic.au
  • Missed another sale.
Re: Why the difference in activation/reset point on blue switches?
« Reply #4 on: Sat, 15 September 2012, 00:10:26 »
Actually in comparison to the other MX switches, in the blue the white bit is not fixed, and moves of its own accord.  It is when this white bit hits the bottom that the audible click sounds.  Having pushed the key down to make the click, you have to let it all teh way up so the white part can retract, ready for the next downward stroke.

I am guessing what it looks like from your description - maybe the plastic bits are offset to avoid it sticking?
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

Ị̸͚̯̲́ͤ̃͑̇̑ͯ̊̂͟ͅs̞͚̩͉̝̪̲͗͊ͪ̽̚̚ ̭̦͖͕̑́͌ͬͩ͟t̷̻͔̙̑͟h̹̠̼͋ͤ͋i̤̜̣̦̱̫͈͔̞ͭ͑ͥ̌̔s̬͔͎̍̈ͥͫ̐̾ͣ̔̇͘ͅ ̩̘̼͆̐̕e̞̰͓̲̺̎͐̏ͬ̓̅̾͠͝ͅv̶̰͕̱̞̥̍ͣ̄̕e͕͙͖̬̜͓͎̤̊ͭ͐͝ṇ̰͎̱̤̟̭ͫ͌̌͢͠ͅ ̳̥̦ͮ̐ͤ̎̊ͣ͡͡n̤̜̙̺̪̒͜e̶̻̦̿ͮ̂̀c̝̘̝͖̠̖͐ͨͪ̈̐͌ͩ̀e̷̥͇̋ͦs̢̡̤ͤͤͯ͜s͈̠̉̑͘a̱͕̗͖̳̥̺ͬͦͧ͆̌̑͡r̶̟̖̈͘ỷ̮̦̩͙͔ͫ̾ͬ̔ͬͮ̌?̵̘͇͔͙ͥͪ͞ͅ

Offline dorkvader

  • Posts: 6289
  • Location: Boston area
  • all about the "hack" in "geekhack"
Re: Why the difference in activation/reset point on blue switches?
« Reply #5 on: Sat, 15 September 2012, 01:22:25 »
As far as I know, there is Hyserisis (difference is activation and reset points, or a loop in the force curve) present in all audibly tactile switches. They need to get the energy somewhere!

Good theory, rowdy If Cherry did make them asymmetrical on purpose, I bet it's for that reason. I'll have to open up a blue, green, and white again to look at them. If they were asymmetrical, I didn't notice it last time I had one open.

Offline limmy

  • Posts: 352
Re: Why the difference in activation/reset point on blue switches?
« Reply #6 on: Sat, 15 September 2012, 03:52:38 »
For your information, the asymmetrical shapes of the legs are same for all other MX switches. I am not really sure why they designed them that way, but I am pretty sure there must be a reason for it.

Offline tp4tissue

  • * Destiny Supporter
  • Posts: 13721
  • Location: Official Geekhack Public Defender..
  • OmniExpert of: Rice, Top-Ramen, Ergodox, n Females
Re: Why the difference in activation/reset point on blue switches?
« Reply #7 on: Sat, 15 September 2012, 08:52:54 »
For your information, the asymmetrical shapes of the legs are same for all other MX switches. I am not really sure why they designed them that way, but I am pretty sure there must be a reason for it.

So you're saying the two little nubs sticking out are not symmetrical??

Please circle


Offline limmy

  • Posts: 352
Re: Why the difference in activation/reset point on blue switches?
« Reply #8 on: Sat, 15 September 2012, 10:29:34 »
I think the asymmetry is pretty obvious from the pic.. No?
4273-0

Offline karljs

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 84
Re: Why the difference in activation/reset point on blue switches?
« Reply #9 on: Sat, 15 September 2012, 11:16:59 »
I think the asymmetry is pretty obvious from the pic.. No?
(Attachment Link)

Indeed. Limmy's circles are what I was getting at.

Offline tp4tissue

  • * Destiny Supporter
  • Posts: 13721
  • Location: Official Geekhack Public Defender..
  • OmniExpert of: Rice, Top-Ramen, Ergodox, n Females
Re: Why the difference in activation/reset point on blue switches?
« Reply #10 on: Sat, 15 September 2012, 17:04:37 »
Oh.. that.... Yea the reason for that is because you never hit the keys perfectly square in the middle. So there's always a chance that you hit the keys off center, which means with staggered nubs, there is a higher percentage of times where they will line up, where as if you have perfectly matched nubs, they would almost NEVER line up.