Author Topic: Filco or Cooler Master  (Read 22569 times)

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Offline NDA

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Filco or Cooler Master
« on: Thu, 20 December 2012, 19:34:04 »
Hi,

  I have a question about these keyboards. I have read that Cooler Master uses the same OEM costar for one of CM keyboards as Filco for their keyboards but are they built to similar standards. For instance the Filco keyboard I am looking at http://www.diatec.co.jp/en/det.php?prod_c=805 claims to use a through hole key switch and diodes for every key switch to prevent "ghosting" which I feel would be somewhat important for the gaming and typeing I do. I have looked around and I can't find any other keyboards built like the filco I guess thats why they demand the premium they do unless it's just marketing nonsense.

  The Cooler master keyboard I am interested in is the CM Storm Quick fire pro and claims to be a USB 2.0 keyboard but is it a true usb 2.0 interface as this is the only keyboard I have seen that has this. So basically my question would be are these two brands similar and quality and are filco keyboards really worth the premium?

Offline ValerieV

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Re: Filco or Cooler Master
« Reply #1 on: Thu, 20 December 2012, 19:50:48 »
I have both. I personally like the Cooler Master because i like the detachable USB cord. It doesn't get in the way when i put the keyboard on my laptop and type. The cord doesn't rub against the screen. People say the Filco is better quality but honestly i don't see it. They both feel the same. I think the Cooler Master is fine and you are saving a lot of money as well. In fact, i think i am going to sell my Filco Red because WASD is coming out with a tenkeyless model and i will try that one. Filco isn't all its cracked up to be in my opinion. I am curious as to what other members think though.  :)

Offline JPG

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Re: Filco or Cooler Master
« Reply #2 on: Thu, 20 December 2012, 19:55:24 »
I don't know for the CM, but I really like my filco. Still, I haven't read a bad review on a CM and it cost much less. So both are good I think.
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Offline Vintage

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Re: Filco or Cooler Master
« Reply #3 on: Thu, 20 December 2012, 19:58:59 »
Well, I don't think Filco has any advantages in terms of the ghosting. They both have NKRO which is more than enough for anyone.

IMost will say that the Filco has a more standard look, slightly nicer stock keycaps, a non-detachable and maybe a higher quality PCB and soldering. Otherwise they are pretty similar. Also the filco is better if you want to get a aluminium case because everything is designed for it.

But I went with the CM QFR, because I feel the difference is not worth 2x the price. That's just me though.
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Offline TheQsanity

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Re: Filco or Cooler Master
« Reply #4 on: Thu, 20 December 2012, 20:02:52 »
Ghosting is just marketing terms for nothing at all.

Does not mean anything nor is it better in anyway.

CMstorm is cheaper so I would buy those.
SmallFry! <3

Offline nullstring

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Re: Filco or Cooler Master
« Reply #5 on: Thu, 20 December 2012, 20:06:33 »
CM Pro is not made by Costar, so you don't want that one.

Choose from either CM QFR or CM storm trigger. Both are made by costar.

Rosewill RK9000 series is also made by Costar.
If you're looking for a full size keyboard, this is what I would recommend.

Offline Sifo

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Re: Filco or Cooler Master
« Reply #6 on: Thu, 20 December 2012, 20:06:34 »
Filco is worth the premium if you're going to be sticking to the hobby. Why get the knock off when you can just get the real thing. Plus it has a higher quality PCB... but the quality of the PCB isn't worth the price difference. Filco feels better than a QFR, by a very minuscule and unnoticeable amount (which is also an opinion). CM Storm if you're on a budget.
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Offline TotalChaos

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Re: Filco or Cooler Master
« Reply #7 on: Thu, 20 December 2012, 20:14:44 »
For instance the Filco keyboard I am looking at http://www.diatec.co.jp/en/det.php?prod_c=805 claims to use a through hole key switch and diodes for every key switch to prevent "ghosting" which I feel would be somewhat important for the gaming and typeing I do.
Lots of keyboards have no ghosting.  For instance, the Rosewill keyboards, which are frequently on sale for $55.00 or less have NKRO and no ghosting.  Any keyboard with NKRO will have no ghosting.

It really does suck to get a keyboard with ghosting.  I had one once before many years ago it was highly annoying.

Just make sure whatever keyboard you get that it says NKRO and you will be safe.
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Offline TheQsanity

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Re: Filco or Cooler Master
« Reply #8 on: Thu, 20 December 2012, 20:37:39 »
again... anti-ghosting is marketing term
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Offline esoomenona

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Re: Filco or Cooler Master
« Reply #9 on: Thu, 20 December 2012, 20:45:34 »
...Filco feels better than a QFR, by a[n] ...unnoticeable amount...

Offline rowdy

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Re: Filco or Cooler Master
« Reply #10 on: Thu, 20 December 2012, 20:45:41 »
There are no ghosts in my keyboard, but you can get one here if you want: http://www.techkeys.us/custom-keys.php
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

Ị̸͚̯̲́ͤ̃͑̇̑ͯ̊̂͟ͅs̞͚̩͉̝̪̲͗͊ͪ̽̚̚ ̭̦͖͕̑́͌ͬͩ͟t̷̻͔̙̑͟h̹̠̼͋ͤ͋i̤̜̣̦̱̫͈͔̞ͭ͑ͥ̌̔s̬͔͎̍̈ͥͫ̐̾ͣ̔̇͘ͅ ̩̘̼͆̐̕e̞̰͓̲̺̎͐̏ͬ̓̅̾͠͝ͅv̶̰͕̱̞̥̍ͣ̄̕e͕͙͖̬̜͓͎̤̊ͭ͐͝ṇ̰͎̱̤̟̭ͫ͌̌͢͠ͅ ̳̥̦ͮ̐ͤ̎̊ͣ͡͡n̤̜̙̺̪̒͜e̶̻̦̿ͮ̂̀c̝̘̝͖̠̖͐ͨͪ̈̐͌ͩ̀e̷̥͇̋ͦs̢̡̤ͤͤͯ͜s͈̠̉̑͘a̱͕̗͖̳̥̺ͬͦͧ͆̌̑͡r̶̟̖̈͘ỷ̮̦̩͙͔ͫ̾ͬ̔ͬͮ̌?̵̘͇͔͙ͥͪ͞ͅ

Offline Sifo

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Re: Filco or Cooler Master
« Reply #11 on: Thu, 20 December 2012, 20:48:18 »
snip

Almost unnoticeable*? Everyone else thinks I'm crazy :)
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Offline esoomenona

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Re: Filco or Cooler Master
« Reply #12 on: Thu, 20 December 2012, 20:50:20 »
I'm just messing with you. It made me laugh.

Offline rowdy

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Re: Filco or Cooler Master
« Reply #13 on: Thu, 20 December 2012, 20:58:41 »
CM QFR if cost is important (and you don't mind the keycaps).

Filco if cost is less of a concern.

Personally I went QFR and intend on getting a set of custom keycaps.  Total price approxaimtely the same as a Filco.
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

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Offline PointyFox

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Re: Filco or Cooler Master
« Reply #14 on: Thu, 20 December 2012, 22:57:31 »
Filco due to awesome customer service.  They (Diatec) mailed me free replacement parts twice now while my keyboard was out of warranty.

Offline sleepy916

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Re: Filco or Cooler Master
« Reply #15 on: Thu, 20 December 2012, 23:37:22 »
I have both and I would choose the Filco if I had to make a choice. They are very similar though, so it's not that big of a difference to me.

Offline TheQsanity

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Re: Filco or Cooler Master
« Reply #16 on: Thu, 20 December 2012, 23:39:45 »
Mainly looks and aesthetics is the main differnec.
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Offline rowdy

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Re: Filco or Cooler Master
« Reply #17 on: Fri, 21 December 2012, 03:59:35 »
OTOH Carter from CoolerMaster lurks around this forum from time to time.  Anyone from Filco here?
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

Ị̸͚̯̲́ͤ̃͑̇̑ͯ̊̂͟ͅs̞͚̩͉̝̪̲͗͊ͪ̽̚̚ ̭̦͖͕̑́͌ͬͩ͟t̷̻͔̙̑͟h̹̠̼͋ͤ͋i̤̜̣̦̱̫͈͔̞ͭ͑ͥ̌̔s̬͔͎̍̈ͥͫ̐̾ͣ̔̇͘ͅ ̩̘̼͆̐̕e̞̰͓̲̺̎͐̏ͬ̓̅̾͠͝ͅv̶̰͕̱̞̥̍ͣ̄̕e͕͙͖̬̜͓͎̤̊ͭ͐͝ṇ̰͎̱̤̟̭ͫ͌̌͢͠ͅ ̳̥̦ͮ̐ͤ̎̊ͣ͡͡n̤̜̙̺̪̒͜e̶̻̦̿ͮ̂̀c̝̘̝͖̠̖͐ͨͪ̈̐͌ͩ̀e̷̥͇̋ͦs̢̡̤ͤͤͯ͜s͈̠̉̑͘a̱͕̗͖̳̥̺ͬͦͧ͆̌̑͡r̶̟̖̈͘ỷ̮̦̩͙͔ͫ̾ͬ̔ͬͮ̌?̵̘͇͔͙ͥͪ͞ͅ

Offline MissMurd3r84

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Re: Filco or Cooler Master
« Reply #18 on: Fri, 21 December 2012, 04:04:12 »
Filco due to awesome customer service.  They (Diatec) mailed me free replacement parts twice now while my keyboard was out of warranty.

^^That suggests you had something break on your Filco twice. Wonder if many have needed CM replacements yet?
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Offline TheQsanity

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Re: Filco or Cooler Master
« Reply #19 on: Fri, 21 December 2012, 04:07:10 »
Haha, good one. So I heard you are in flames, is that true? Or was it an unknown vortex?
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Offline WhiteFireDragon

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Re: Filco or Cooler Master
« Reply #20 on: Fri, 21 December 2012, 05:35:50 »
Filco and CM may look and feel the same... until you open it up. This video below (mine btw) shows exactly what the differences are. I did mention a few things about the PCB, but what I did NOT mention was that even though they're both made by Costar, they are not made to the same standards. Filco has the higher quality PCB. But Coolermaster wins in the value aspect though.


Offline CPTBadAss

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Re: Filco or Cooler Master
« Reply #21 on: Fri, 21 December 2012, 08:07:10 »
I was just deciding between the two of these as well. I went to MicroCenter multiple times to play with the CM QFR and just really didn't like the tenkeyless setup. Also that rubberized coating had me worried about retaining dust/grime and I didn't really feel like buying a keyboard and immediately sanding it down. Call me lazy lol.

I also didn't like the storm trigger's extra edging. There's like half an inch of extra plastic from where the keys end to the edge of the board. And there's that slight cutout near the arrows. If I'm already paying good money for a board, I'd rather get something that's perfect for me.

So I picked up a Filco Ninja ^_^. Filco has a nice simple layout with no extra edging and it's really good quality. Plus the Ninja caps are sweet.


Offline alaricljs

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Re: Filco or Cooler Master
« Reply #22 on: Fri, 21 December 2012, 09:03:07 »
Filco has the higher quality PCB. But Coolermaster wins in the value aspect though.

Are you claiming this based on the single layer in the CM?  Because if you hunt through Carter's posts this was a deliberate choice they made because in testing they felt the double layer negatively impacted something... feel or noise or some such.
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Offline esoomenona

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Re: Filco or Cooler Master
« Reply #23 on: Fri, 21 December 2012, 09:51:45 »
The one thing that turns me off about Diatec / Filco is they won't let a solid seller like MechanicalKeyboards.com sell their keyboards in the US.  They hand it off to KeyboardCompany to take care of which are good sellers but take forever to keep Amazon well stocked.
To be fair to them, they don't HAVE to sell on Amazon. They're basically running a second store for our convenience. I can imagine one store being tough to run as is.

Offline linuxid10t

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Re: Filco or Cooler Master
« Reply #24 on: Fri, 21 December 2012, 10:06:22 »
CM Pro is not made by Costar, so you don't want that one.

Choose from either CM QFR or CM storm trigger. Both are made by costar.

Rosewill RK9000 series is also made by Costar.
If you're looking for a full size keyboard, this is what I would recommend.

Not being made by Costar doesn't make the QuickFire Pro badly built.  In fact it is very well built (depends on how you feel about the stiff microusb plug.)  I can say it is significantly better built than the Costar built Rosewills.

Offline esoomenona

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Re: Filco or Cooler Master
« Reply #25 on: Fri, 21 December 2012, 10:45:08 »
I don't believe it's for our convenience - they are making a lot of money off it.  If it is an inconvenience they should step aside and let a US company handle it - as long as MechanicalKeyboards doesn't sell to the UK.
How do you figure they're making a lot of money off of it? First, prices are higher on KeyboardCo's site (may change due to variations in currency exchange rates), if even only slightly. Second, there is Prime 2-day shipping on Amazon. As far as I know, that comes out of their cut, which already means less money for them. The only thing it does for them is make it more efficient to ship around the US and probably helps them make more sales around here as well. That being said, if people wanted a Filco and there was only one place to get them, then people would buy them regardless. So, it may be in their favor, but I do think it is for our convenience that they are sold as such.

Offline esoomenona

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Re: Filco or Cooler Master
« Reply #26 on: Fri, 21 December 2012, 10:49:58 »
But they're handling it. It may not be up to your standards, but it's getting done. How would it be any different if MechanicalKeyboards was handling it? The point of the matter is Filco has an arrangement with KeyboardCo. Until that changes or someone else can get in on the action, then this is the way it is.

Offline swagpiratex

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Re: Filco or Cooler Master
« Reply #27 on: Fri, 21 December 2012, 11:00:42 »
If you were getting a revenue stream, and had the sole right to that revenue stream for a specific market, and then someone told you to let your competitor handle it?

HAHAHA you'd laugh and carry on. Merry Christmas.


Offline esoomenona

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Re: Filco or Cooler Master
« Reply #28 on: Fri, 21 December 2012, 11:03:08 »
^Exactly. And as I said, they also offer an extra convenience (which admittedly may be beneficial to them as well) of selling from inside the US via Amazon, whereas in all reality, they could just ship everything from the UK.

Offline WhiteFireDragon

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Re: Filco or Cooler Master
« Reply #29 on: Fri, 21 December 2012, 13:47:41 »
Filco has the higher quality PCB. But Coolermaster wins in the value aspect though.

Are you claiming this based on the single layer in the CM?  Because if you hunt through Carter's posts this was a deliberate choice they made because in testing they felt the double layer negatively impacted something... feel or noise or some such.

No, single vs dual layer PCB was not a factor. You can have high quality single-layer PCBs. Anyways, PCB material seems different, with Filco having a higher quality. What the PCB is made of might be the same, but the quality seems different. Also, the through-holes for the switch pins has pads only on the top surface for CM, while Filco has pads that are on the top surface and goes all the way inside the holes. The trace/pads are less prone to being ripped out, but of course this probably only affects desoldering.

I'm not discrediting what Carter said, but I think the move for single-layer and cheaper material is more of a business decision to save on costs for mass production. These savings could then be passed on to end users. It sounds more pleasing to say that they purposely choose cheaper manufacturing processes to prevent negative effects, than it is to say they did it to save money.

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Filco or Cooler Master
« Reply #30 on: Fri, 21 December 2012, 13:56:34 »
Filco has the higher quality PCB. But Coolermaster wins in the value aspect though.

Are you claiming this based on the single layer in the CM?  Because if you hunt through Carter's posts this was a deliberate choice they made because in testing they felt the double layer negatively impacted something... feel or noise or some such.

No, single vs dual layer PCB was not a factor. You can have high quality single-layer PCBs. Anyways, PCB material seems different, with Filco having a higher quality. What the PCB is made of might be the same, but the quality seems different. Also, the through-holes for the switch pins has pads only on the top surface for CM, while Filco has pads that are on the top surface and goes all the way inside the holes. The trace/pads are less prone to being ripped out, but of course this probably only affects desoldering.

I'm not discrediting what Carter said, but I think the move for single-layer and cheaper material is more of a business decision to save on costs for mass production. These savings could then be passed on to end users. It sounds more pleasing to say that they purposely choose cheaper manufacturing processes to prevent negative effects, than it is to say they did it to save money.

If you look at it this way... even if failure rate was twice as high on the "lower quality" pcb, which is still "unlikely". The fact that you can buy 2 cm for 1 filco would make up for it..

Offline PointyFox

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Re: Filco or Cooler Master
« Reply #31 on: Fri, 21 December 2012, 13:58:42 »
Filco due to awesome customer service.  They (Diatec) mailed me free replacement parts twice now while my keyboard was out of warranty.

^^That suggests you had something break on your Filco twice. Wonder if many have needed CM replacements yet?

One problem was a slight misalignment of the case, another may possibly be a problem with the IC, but may be a Windows problem.

As for CM, I've had 4 of them, and all had warped space bars.  The CM Storm Pro I got wobbled when I typed on it.
« Last Edit: Fri, 21 December 2012, 14:00:19 by PointyFox »

Offline PointyFox

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Re: Filco or Cooler Master
« Reply #32 on: Fri, 21 December 2012, 14:19:45 »
CM makes unbranded keyboards now for people who dislike branding.

Offline Hyde

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Re: Filco or Cooler Master
« Reply #33 on: Fri, 21 December 2012, 17:24:56 »
I bought a Filco because I need a full size version, and CM Storm currently doesn't have that.

And no CM Storm Trigger/TK/Pro are not the same.  Though Carter did mentioned it somewhere that "It might be worth the wait", so maybe they'll have it someday  :P

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Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Filco or Cooler Master
« Reply #34 on: Fri, 21 December 2012, 18:12:50 »
I bought a Filco because I need a full size version, and CM Storm currently doesn't have that.

And no CM Storm Trigger/TK/Pro are not the same.  Though Carter did mentioned it somewhere that "It might be worth the wait", so maybe they'll have it someday  :P

Why didn't you get the Rosewill 9000 then, same $64 price tag in the USA.

Offline Hyde

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Re: Filco or Cooler Master
« Reply #35 on: Sat, 22 December 2012, 11:18:40 »
I bought a Filco because I need a full size version, and CM Storm currently doesn't have that.

And no CM Storm Trigger/TK/Pro are not the same.  Though Carter did mentioned it somewhere that "It might be worth the wait", so maybe they'll have it someday  :P

Why didn't you get the Rosewill 9000 then, same $64 price tag in the USA.

I didn't want to take the risk with the mini b connector.  No one knows for sure if it's fixed or not yet.

That and I prefer less quantity and more quality  :P

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Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Filco or Cooler Master
« Reply #36 on: Sat, 22 December 2012, 11:54:31 »
I bought a Filco because I need a full size version, and CM Storm currently doesn't have that.

And no CM Storm Trigger/TK/Pro are not the same.  Though Carter did mentioned it somewhere that "It might be worth the wait", so maybe they'll have it someday  :P

Why didn't you get the Rosewill 9000 then, same $64 price tag in the USA.

I didn't want to take the risk with the mini b connector.  No one knows for sure if it's fixed or not yet.

That and I prefer less quantity and more quality  :P

Um... that is a none issue, it is such an easy fix... like the keyboard is unaffected, only the connector.. at worst you'll have to solder 4 wires directly to the keyboard...

you might not even have to solder, just strip the ends of the connectors, and twist.. and put some tape on it... seriously, that USB issue is way way overblown.

Offline iri

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Re: Filco or Cooler Master
« Reply #37 on: Sat, 22 December 2012, 12:24:38 »
cm qf pro is rubbish
(...)Whereas back then I wrote about the tyranny of the majority, today I'd combine that with the tyranny of the minorities. These days, you have to be careful of both. They both want to control you. The first group, by making you do the same thing over and over again. The second group is indicated by the letters I get from the Vassar girls who want me to put more women's lib in The Martian Chronicles, or from blacks who want more black people in Dandelion Wine.
I say to both bunches, Whether you're a majority or minority, bug off! To hell with anybody who wants to tell me what to write. Their society breaks down into subsections of minorities who then, in effect, burn books by banning them. All this political correctness that's rampant on campuses is b.s.

-Ray Bradbury

Offline Lizzardborn

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Re: Filco or Cooler Master
« Reply #38 on: Sat, 22 December 2012, 12:43:42 »
If you call everything but the best rubbish it soon devalues the term and people soon are not able to distinguish between bad, mediocre and good products. CM Quckfire pro is not a rubbish keyboard. It is with cheap finish and definitely not the keyboard to end all keyboards, and there are improvements to be made, but it is okish if you are on a tight budget. And in the prices it is sold currently in the USA it is worthed even if you buy it as a donor board. I am somewhat pleased with my new one with reds.

Offline HarryPalms

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Re: Filco or Cooler Master
« Reply #39 on: Sat, 22 December 2012, 13:48:39 »
Filco!

Offline stonejoint

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Re: Filco or Cooler Master
« Reply #40 on: Sat, 22 December 2012, 14:51:36 »
If you are going to buy only one keyboard and you want mechnical keyboard buy filco but if you like mechanical keyboard youll have both soon or later.
CM QFR Black Filco MJ2 Red
Vortex Poker 2 Brown

Offline tauburn

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Re: Filco or Cooler Master
« Reply #41 on: Sat, 22 December 2012, 15:10:51 »
cooler master doesnt give you the same sense of superiority

Offline urbanus

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Re: Filco or Cooler Master
« Reply #42 on: Sat, 22 December 2012, 19:36:45 »
For instance the Filco keyboard I am looking at http://www.diatec.co.jp/en/det.php?prod_c=805 claims to use a through hole key switch and diodes for every key switch to prevent "ghosting" which I feel would be somewhat important for the gaming and typeing I do.
Lots of keyboards have no ghosting.  For instance, the Rosewill keyboards, which are frequently on sale for $55.00 or less have NKRO and no ghosting.  Any keyboard with NKRO will have no ghosting.

It really does suck to get a keyboard with ghosting.  I had one once before many years ago it was highly annoying.

Just make sure whatever keyboard you get that it says NKRO and you will be safe.


You've confused two different concepts.  NKRO and no ghosting are only slightly related.

NKRO means the keyboard can send more than 6 keys at once to the host.  The USB HID spec defines 7 bytes for sending active keys to the host: 6 non-modifier keys, plus one byte of bit-flags for the modifiers. 

"NKRO" is typically implemented in a couple of ways.  One is to support PS/2 mode, which places no constraints on the number of active keys when the keyboard is physically connected via PS/2 (under USB, the 6 keys + modifiers limit still remains).  The other way is to implement a USB hub within the keyboard and to break the keys up into multiple USB keyboards (e.g. Noppoo Choc Mini).

Anti-ghosting refers to the measures used to remove (or mitigate) ghost keystrokes.  Ghosts occur when 3 active keys make up three points of a rectangle on the physical matrix.  This causes the fourth "corner" to go hot.  This is why keyboards with no anti-ghosting measures are called "2KRO": although not every combination of 3 or more keys will cause ghosts, you can only be guaranteed to avoid ghosts if 2 or less keys are active.

Anti-ghosting is done in a few ways.  On keyboards with a PCB (i.e. not membrane) the best and most reliable way is to fit diodes between the switches, to prevent the back-flow of current.  This is a 100% complete solution.  Partial solutions include implementing a sparse matrix (i.e. empty points in the logical matrix to help avoid making rectangles), arranging the matrix strategically such that keys that are commonly held down (especially the modifiers) don't share the same rows and columns, and firmware logic to remove the fourth key given that three keys known to be prone to ghosting are active (obviously this is a hit-and-miss approach).

So your rule has a couple of exceptions.  A keyboard may be 100% guaranteed to have no ghosting because of diodes, but this doesn't necessarily mean that it must support PS/2 and in that case you only get 6KRO.  Conversely, a keyboard may support PS/2 and so be advertised as "NKRO" but may only have partial solutions to ghosting -- not the full diode-based solution.

Offline TheQsanity

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Re: Filco or Cooler Master
« Reply #43 on: Sat, 22 December 2012, 19:37:42 »
cooler master doesnt give you the same sense of superiority
Probably because you pay 50 to 100 dollars the price of a Filco. Which is okay with me, Filco in my book isn't worth 50 to 100 dollars more than any mechanical keyboard.
SmallFry! <3

Offline TotalChaos

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Re: Filco or Cooler Master
« Reply #44 on: Sat, 22 December 2012, 20:12:20 »
@Urbanus

I say that in the real world, any keyboard you can buy today that is NKRO will have no ghosting.

Are you saying differently?


I think u r right that it is possible to construct an NKRO keyboard with ghosting.  All I am saying is that they thankfully do not exist.  Although now that u have given them the idea I am sure they are hard at work to make such a deformed creature.  :'(

If there really exists an NKRO keyboard that has ghosting problems then I really want to know about it so I can warn ppl about it.  I hate ghosting.  I type really fast and can trigger ghosts.  Ghosting is unacceptable in the 21st century.

If u know of an NKRO ghosting keyboard then please state the brand and model # for all to beware.
Rosewill RK-9000RE #1 (Broke on day 26, fixed with Scotch Tape on day 42, barely holding together)
Rosewill RK-9000RE #2 (Lubed, still in the box.  I am afraid to use it because it will break like the first one)

Offline urbanus

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Re: Filco or Cooler Master
« Reply #45 on: Sat, 22 December 2012, 23:31:15 »
If u know of an NKRO ghosting keyboard then please state the brand and model # for all to beware.

Cherry's G80 PS/2 models are NKRO but don't use diodes against ghosting.  (I believe they use firmware to filter out *some* ghosts -- can anyone confirm?)

I'd be inclined to agree with you that keyboards which are mechanical, support NKRO and are marketed for "gaming" are likely to use diodes.  Most of the modern mechanical boards certainly are.  But Cherry's boards are targeted at the office/industrial market, so I suppose it's not such a high priority for them.  There may be others.

Offline TheQsanity

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Re: Filco or Cooler Master
« Reply #46 on: Sun, 23 December 2012, 00:43:07 »
Um, Doesn't the term NKRO mean no keys will be missed.....
SmallFry! <3

Offline MissMurd3r84

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Re: Filco or Cooler Master
« Reply #47 on: Sun, 23 December 2012, 07:54:34 »
Um, Doesn't the term NKRO mean no keys will be missed.....

Rollover is the ability of a computer keyboard to correctly handle several simultaneous keystrokes.
An entire thread on that sort of stuff. http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=10063.0
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Offline uJalled

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Re: Filco or Cooler Master
« Reply #48 on: Sun, 23 December 2012, 09:52:55 »
Either one you decide to get you won't regret. There's a reason why people jump immediately to the CM QFR if their budget isn't loose enough for the Filco. I recommend buying a CM QFR and then switching out the ugly keycaps with better ones.

Offline rowdy

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Re: Filco or Cooler Master
« Reply #49 on: Sun, 23 December 2012, 19:06:53 »
^ and ^^ - twins?
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

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