Author Topic: What is it: "Tactile Peripherals R77"?  (Read 5640 times)

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Offline FoxWolf1

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What is it: "Tactile Peripherals R77"?
« on: Tue, 08 January 2013, 14:28:35 »
See here...

Seems to use a shell similar (but not quite identical to) Corsair K60, and MX Brown switches. Also makes a lot of seemingly ambitious promises, such as doubleshot keycaps and adjustable-color backlighting. Anyone know more about this one? Is it for real? The website seems kind of sketchy, but then, it'd hardly be the only company selling a top-end keyboard with that issue...

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Offline aesthetics1

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Re: What is it: "Tactile Peripherals R77"?
« Reply #1 on: Tue, 08 January 2013, 18:00:41 »
Definitely looks like the Corsairs.

Are there any actual photos of the keyboard? (The image looks like a render?)
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Offline IvanIvanovich

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Re: What is it: "Tactile Peripherals R77"?
« Reply #2 on: Tue, 08 January 2013, 18:24:01 »
Just looks like tweaked version of Corsair 2nd gen version that is full MX. Defineatly same OEM.

Offline rootwyrm

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Re: What is it: "Tactile Peripherals R77"?
« Reply #3 on: Tue, 08 January 2013, 22:30:18 »
I love the extremely low quality render they used instead of an actual product photo. So basically ignore the photo entirely because chances are it's not even remotely representative.
Believe this exists when I see it - and rest assured it's no $200 keyboard.
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Offline jabar

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Re: What is it: "Tactile Peripherals R77"?
« Reply #4 on: Tue, 08 January 2013, 23:02:40 »
I thought the ultimate mechanical keyboard featured double shot PBTs and a choice of any MX switch type  :p
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Offline TactilePeripherals

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Re: What is it: "Tactile Peripherals R77"?
« Reply #5 on: Sun, 10 February 2013, 12:50:58 »
Hey guys, my name is Ryan and I'm the co-owner of Tactile Peripherals. I wanted to address some of what you guys have said, and also ask for suggestions.

Our current site was designed to do market research and see if people were interested in a keyboard with the feature list we had come up with, so I apologize for the very basic state that it's in. Rest assured that once we're ready to move forward with sales, we'll be redesigning the site to look significantly better.

It is true that it is a concept render of our keyboard, we do not have any photos as the keyboard has not yet been manufactured.

We are very serious about making this keyboard, as I'm a bit of an enthusiast myself. (I have a Thermaltake Meka G1, Thermaltake Meka G UNIT, Corsair K60, Corsair K90, CM Storm Quickfire TK, CM Storm Trigger, Logitech G710+, and a Monoprice MX Blue Switch Gaming Keyboard [ID: 9433]).

We are in talks with manufacturers such as Costar at the moment and are looking for other interested manufacturers as well. If any of you happen to know some smaller, high quality keyboard manufacturers, please feel free to let me know, as we're looking to start out with a small, limited run of the R77 Ultimate.

We also will likely offer the keyboard with MX switches other than MX Browns, but we need to determine which ones people might most be interested in. We chose Browns initially because they're a good middle ground. We're considering Brown, Blue, Red, and Green. If any of you have a preference, also feel free to let me know.

Also, as far as the materials go, we'll be limited to what the manufacturers can provide us. If we can find a manufacturer that would produce reasonably prices Double Shot PBTs instead of ABS, we'd definitely consider it.

If you guys have any other feature requests or suggestions, please let me know. Thanks for the feedback!

Ryan

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: What is it: "Tactile Peripherals R77"?
« Reply #6 on: Sun, 10 February 2013, 13:10:09 »
Hey guys, my name is Ryan and I'm the co-owner of Tactile Peripherals. I wanted to address some of what you guys have said, and also ask for suggestions.

Our current site was designed to do market research and see if people were interested in a keyboard with the feature list we had come up with, so I apologize for the very basic state that it's in. Rest assured that once we're ready to move forward with sales, we'll be redesigning the site to look significantly better.

It is true that it is a concept render of our keyboard, we do not have any photos as the keyboard has not yet been manufactured.

We are very serious about making this keyboard, as I'm a bit of an enthusiast myself. (I have a Thermaltake Meka G1, Thermaltake Meka G UNIT, Corsair K60, Corsair K90, CM Storm Quickfire TK, CM Storm Trigger, Logitech G710+, and a Monoprice MX Blue Switch Gaming Keyboard [ID: 9433]).

We are in talks with manufacturers such as Costar at the moment and are looking for other interested manufacturers as well. If any of you happen to know some smaller, high quality keyboard manufacturers, please feel free to let me know, as we're looking to start out with a small, limited run of the R77 Ultimate.

We also will likely offer the keyboard with MX switches other than MX Browns, but we need to determine which ones people might most be interested in. We chose Browns initially because they're a good middle ground. We're considering Brown, Blue, Red, and Green. If any of you have a preference, also feel free to let me know.

Also, as far as the materials go, we'll be limited to what the manufacturers can provide us. If we can find a manufacturer that would produce reasonably prices Double Shot PBTs instead of ABS, we'd definitely consider it.

If you guys have any other feature requests or suggestions, please let me know. Thanks for the feedback!

Ryan

Don't bother with whatever you have going right now.. Corsair has that exact thing, and it DOES NOT appeal to the keyboard community....

You might sell a few to kids, but it ends there, and you'll be competing with all the other dregs of the industry, namely corsair, thermaltake, filco, who also push the same products year after year after year....



As I've mentioned in several other threads..

ALL keyboard enthusiasts CONVERGE on a key features... Pretty much what the GH60 project has been about

Firmware level Programmable
____Program keys at a hardware level to DO exactly what you want it to do

Easy access plate mounting
____Plate mounted keyboard with special holes that lets you open the top of the switch to customize spring and slider

Options:

LED Option + bundled with a few extra leds in case a few dies

FULL- Aluminum Chassis Option

PBT keycaps option would be nice, but we can always buy aftermarket, so don't worry too much about this... DOUBLE shot is unnecessary because not everyone agrees on color... This adds unnecessary cost..



If you make this keyboard, EVERYONE will "eventually" buy one..


DO NOT use that aluminum top design, it's terrible for several reasons... Dirt collects on the keyboard no matter how clean a user.... and that chassis makes the dirtiness of keyboards OBVIOUS...


Also, make sure the Plate supports both CHERRY and COSTAR(wire type) stabilizers...

Offline FoxWolf1

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Re: What is it: "Tactile Peripherals R77"?
« Reply #7 on: Sun, 10 February 2013, 13:26:01 »
Hey guys, my name is Ryan and I'm the co-owner of Tactile Peripherals. I wanted to address some of what you guys have said, and also ask for suggestions.

Our current site was designed to do market research and see if people were interested in a keyboard with the feature list we had come up with, so I apologize for the very basic state that it's in. Rest assured that once we're ready to move forward with sales, we'll be redesigning the site to look significantly better.

It is true that it is a concept render of our keyboard, we do not have any photos as the keyboard has not yet been manufactured.
Welcome! Always good to see another (potential) manufacturer here getting feedback.

We are very serious about making this keyboard, as I'm a bit of an enthusiast myself. (I have a Thermaltake Meka G1, Thermaltake Meka G UNIT, Corsair K60, Corsair K90, CM Storm Quickfire TK, CM Storm Trigger, Logitech G710+, and a Monoprice MX Blue Switch Gaming Keyboard [ID: 9433]).

We are in talks with manufacturers such as Costar at the moment and are looking for other interested manufacturers as well. If any of you happen to know some smaller, high quality keyboard manufacturers, please feel free to let me know, as we're looking to start out with a small, limited run of the R77 Ultimate.
Costar is quite well-regarded, so long as you have them institute good quality control procedures. As for smaller manufacturers, I believe that TG3 (Deck parent company) used to do some OEM work-- at any rate, you'd see TG3 boards sold under other brands occasionally-- though I don't know if that's still the case. They have a good quality reputation and the ability to produce (sort of) doubleshot (partly) PBT backlight-compatible keycaps.

We also will likely offer the keyboard with MX switches other than MX Browns, but we need to determine which ones people might most be interested in. We chose Browns initially because they're a good middle ground. We're considering Brown, Blue, Red, and Green. If any of you have a preference, also feel free to let me know.
No MX Black option? :(

Also, as far as the materials go, we'll be limited to what the manufacturers can provide us. If we can find a manufacturer that would produce reasonably prices Double Shot PBTs instead of ABS, we'd definitely consider it
See above.

If you guys have any other feature requests or suggestions, please let me know. Thanks for the feedback!
Cut off the numberpad (or keep it and somehow merge the arrows either into the main section or into the numberpad, so that you reduce the width), and give it a TrackPoint! I've been searching for a long time now for a TKL-sized keyboard with MX Black and a TrackPoint, and there doesn't seem to be anything even close.

Anyhow, sort of a random question...if the keyboard doesn't exist yet, how do you have testimonials about it?
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Offline Hak Foo

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Re: What is it: "Tactile Peripherals R77"?
« Reply #8 on: Sun, 10 February 2013, 13:35:38 »
I will definitely reiterate the statement that the world doesn't need a slightly rebadged Corsair K60.

I believe there's a market for the "professonal" merchanical keyboard.  Where it feels good and works reliably, but doesn't call attention to itself.  But marketed smart-- to people who write, who code, who administer-- instead of to gamers "look your favourite StarCraft player uses one!"  Fill the void left when they stopped shipping mechanicals with PCs, rather than trying to draw on the "upgrading my keyboard must make me game better" crowd.

Anecdote: At work, I have a Ducky 1008; a co-worker has the K60.  The K60 is definitely more attention getting.  The 1008 is more practical,  If it weren't for the custom caps on my 1008 :)  However, if a burglar came in, the K60 would be stolen first.

One oddity is if you're here, you're already talking to the fanboy crowd.  Their needs tend to be on the non-traditional side.  95 percent of people who bought K60s or Black Widows are NOT replacing switches or even changing caps, so many features devoted to their needs will be a waste.
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Offline inteli722

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Re: What is it: "Tactile Peripherals R77"?
« Reply #9 on: Sun, 10 February 2013, 13:44:30 »
I second the Quickfire TK-style keyboard with a trackpoint. Alternatively, you could have 2-3 versions, one standard 104-key board, one 90%(TK, Plum 96, etc) board, and one Tenkeyless board.

Aluminum case would be great, but not completely necessary (if this keyboard comes to be, and it's a large hit here, then someone's almost certainly going to make an aftermarket case for it), and I would love to see some case color options, maybe either matching the switch type or consumer chosen). I'm not quite sure what I think of the Corsair-style case (and certainly with a easy-swap Phantom-style plate) as far as cleanliness, so I'd probably say stick with the norm, although this keyboard would certainly stand out.

I think the industry could use a few more Clear or White switch keyboards (and for the Clears, a easy switch top removal plate is a must)

Only real concern with the keycaps is the layout. Please don't pull a Steelseries (Huge enter key) or Leopold (completely incompatible spacebar). Other than that, feel free to use whatever keycap type you want, though ABS Doubleshot (especially from a manufacturer like Signature Plastics, that company has a lot of respect here) is very welcome, especially right out of the box. There are quite a few people here who like a 1.5x mod layout (modifier row: 1.5, 1, 1.5, 7, 1.5, 1, 1.5), so that would be quite welcome here (as would be a winkeyless design! Mmm mmm!)

I really like the idea of dedicated Media keys as opposed to a media layer built into the F keys, because I like my menu key.

Modifiable Firmware would be great, as that is a huge selling point of many customs here (and probably the main reason the Phantom sold so well, well that and that 1.5x mods)

Again: Trackpoint is a definite "Yes!"

And take tp4tissue's opinions with a grain of salt, as he's the closest thing this forum has to a persistent troll. I can't call him a persistent troll because he has helpful insight from time to time.
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Offline tp4tissue

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Re: What is it: "Tactile Peripherals R77"?
« Reply #10 on: Sun, 10 February 2013, 13:46:09 »
I will definitely reiterate the statement that the world doesn't need a slightly rebadged Corsair K60.

I believe there's a market for the "professonal" merchanical keyboard.  Where it feels good and works reliably, but doesn't call attention to itself.  But marketed smart-- to people who write, who code, who administer-- instead of to gamers "look your favourite StarCraft player uses one!"  Fill the void left when they stopped shipping mechanicals with PCs, rather than trying to draw on the "upgrading my keyboard must make me game better" crowd.

Anecdote: At work, I have a Ducky 1008; a co-worker has the K60.  The K60 is definitely more attention getting.  The 1008 is more practical,  If it weren't for the custom caps on my 1008 :)  However, if a burglar came in, the K60 would be stolen first.

One oddity is if you're here, you're already talking to the fanboy crowd.  Their needs tend to be on the non-traditional side.  95 percent of people who bought K60s or Black Widows are NOT replacing switches or even changing caps, so many features devoted to their needs will be a waste.

This is actually incorrect..

Most recent marketing studies points to the fact that you DO indeed need to MARKET to lower-income crowd, namely kids and gamers.

In a nutshell it works like this...   

Adults and effective upper income classes are adept at AVOIDING// IGNORING advertisement, and spend no time of their lives PROMOTING the product they've acquired..

Children, and lower income classes, for various reasons are compelled to "share" and "talk about" what they've just "bought"
..... Thus, this is like crowd sourcing advertisement.. "for free"



However this doesn't change what a GREAT keyboard should have.

Offline inteli722

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Re: What is it: "Tactile Peripherals R77"?
« Reply #11 on: Sun, 10 February 2013, 13:48:26 »
I will definitely reiterate the statement that the world doesn't need a slightly rebadged Corsair K60.

I believe there's a market for the "professonal" merchanical keyboard.  Where it feels good and works reliably, but doesn't call attention to itself.  But marketed smart-- to people who write, who code, who administer-- instead of to gamers "look your favourite StarCraft player uses one!"  Fill the void left when they stopped shipping mechanicals with PCs, rather than trying to draw on the "upgrading my keyboard must make me game better" crowd.

Anecdote: At work, I have a Ducky 1008; a co-worker has the K60.  The K60 is definitely more attention getting.  The 1008 is more practical,  If it weren't for the custom caps on my 1008 :)  However, if a burglar came in, the K60 would be stolen first.

One oddity is if you're here, you're already talking to the fanboy crowd.  Their needs tend to be on the non-traditional side.  95 percent of people who bought K60s or Black Widows are NOT replacing switches or even changing caps, so many features devoted to their needs will be a waste.

This is actually incorrect..

Most recent marketing studies points to the fact that you DO indeed need to MARKET to lower-income crowd, namely kids and gamers.

In a nutshell it works like this...   

Adults and effective upper income classes are adept at AVOIDING advertisement, and spend no time of their lives PROMOTING the product they've acquired..

Children, and lower income classes, for various reasons are compelled to "share" and "talk about" what they've just "bought"
..... Thus, this is like crowd sourcing advertisement.. "for free"



However this doesn't change what a GREAT keyboard should have.

Alternatively, though this may not be extremely feasible, you could make 2 models, one that's flashy, and one that's not. The people who want flashy can take flashy, and the people who don't want flashy don't have to have it


Almost forgot: DIYs are very much welcome here...so I'm sure that people would enjoy a DIY version of this keyboard, containing the case, PCB, and plate, and you drum up the switches and caps, and you put it all together.
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Offline tp4tissue

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Re: What is it: "Tactile Peripherals R77"?
« Reply #12 on: Sun, 10 February 2013, 13:54:00 »
I will definitely reiterate the statement that the world doesn't need a slightly rebadged Corsair K60.

I believe there's a market for the "professonal" merchanical keyboard.  Where it feels good and works reliably, but doesn't call attention to itself.  But marketed smart-- to people who write, who code, who administer-- instead of to gamers "look your favourite StarCraft player uses one!"  Fill the void left when they stopped shipping mechanicals with PCs, rather than trying to draw on the "upgrading my keyboard must make me game better" crowd.

Anecdote: At work, I have a Ducky 1008; a co-worker has the K60.  The K60 is definitely more attention getting.  The 1008 is more practical,  If it weren't for the custom caps on my 1008 :)  However, if a burglar came in, the K60 would be stolen first.

One oddity is if you're here, you're already talking to the fanboy crowd.  Their needs tend to be on the non-traditional side.  95 percent of people who bought K60s or Black Widows are NOT replacing switches or even changing caps, so many features devoted to their needs will be a waste.

This is actually incorrect..

Most recent marketing studies points to the fact that you DO indeed need to MARKET to lower-income crowd, namely kids and gamers.

In a nutshell it works like this...   

Adults and effective upper income classes are adept at AVOIDING advertisement, and spend no time of their lives PROMOTING the product they've acquired..

Children, and lower income classes, for various reasons are compelled to "share" and "talk about" what they've just "bought"
..... Thus, this is like crowd sourcing advertisement.. "for free"



However this doesn't change what a GREAT keyboard should have.

Alternatively, though this may not be extremely feasible, you could make 2 models, one that's flashy, and one that's not. The people who want flashy can take flashy, and the people who don't want flashy don't have to have it


Almost forgot: DIYs are very much welcome here...so I'm sure that people would enjoy a DIY version of this keyboard, containing the case, PCB, and plate, and you drum up the switches and caps, and you put it all together.

Tactical Peripherals is a "start-up" it seems.

It makes little sense to have a LARGE product line..

Making product differentiation that appeals to DIFFERENT crowds is a bad idea, because if their opinions were to ever CLASH, your product will be labeled by the "WORST" of the bunch, NOT the best..

If Ferrari made a Civic-esque model,, Do you think that would Hurt or Bolster the brand??

Same principle could be applied to keyboards..

Offline inteli722

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Re: What is it: "Tactile Peripherals R77"?
« Reply #13 on: Sun, 10 February 2013, 13:57:12 »
I will definitely reiterate the statement that the world doesn't need a slightly rebadged Corsair K60.

I believe there's a market for the "professonal" merchanical keyboard.  Where it feels good and works reliably, but doesn't call attention to itself.  But marketed smart-- to people who write, who code, who administer-- instead of to gamers "look your favourite StarCraft player uses one!"  Fill the void left when they stopped shipping mechanicals with PCs, rather than trying to draw on the "upgrading my keyboard must make me game better" crowd.

Anecdote: At work, I have a Ducky 1008; a co-worker has the K60.  The K60 is definitely more attention getting.  The 1008 is more practical,  If it weren't for the custom caps on my 1008 :)  However, if a burglar came in, the K60 would be stolen first.

One oddity is if you're here, you're already talking to the fanboy crowd.  Their needs tend to be on the non-traditional side.  95 percent of people who bought K60s or Black Widows are NOT replacing switches or even changing caps, so many features devoted to their needs will be a waste.

This is actually incorrect..

Most recent marketing studies points to the fact that you DO indeed need to MARKET to lower-income crowd, namely kids and gamers.

In a nutshell it works like this...   

Adults and effective upper income classes are adept at AVOIDING advertisement, and spend no time of their lives PROMOTING the product they've acquired..

Children, and lower income classes, for various reasons are compelled to "share" and "talk about" what they've just "bought"
..... Thus, this is like crowd sourcing advertisement.. "for free"



However this doesn't change what a GREAT keyboard should have.

Alternatively, though this may not be extremely feasible, you could make 2 models, one that's flashy, and one that's not. The people who want flashy can take flashy, and the people who don't want flashy don't have to have it


Almost forgot: DIYs are very much welcome here...so I'm sure that people would enjoy a DIY version of this keyboard, containing the case, PCB, and plate, and you drum up the switches and caps, and you put it all together.

Tactical Peripherals is a "start-up" it seems.

It makes little sense to have a LARGE product line..

Making product differentiation that appeals to DIFFERENT crowds is a bad idea, because if their opinions were to ever CLASH, your product will be labeled by the "WORST" of the bunch, NOT the best..

If Ferrari made a Civic-esque model,, Do you think that would Hurt or Bolster the brand??

Same principle could be applied to keyboards..

Notice:
Alternatively, though this may not be extremely feasible, you could make 2 models, one that's flashy, and one that's not. The people who want flashy can take flashy, and the people who don't want flashy don't have to have it

I'm aware that it's not entirely feasible. It's what I would like to see, not what they have to do...
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Offline FoxWolf1

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Re: What is it: "Tactile Peripherals R77"?
« Reply #14 on: Sun, 10 February 2013, 14:14:48 »
Making product differentiation that appeals to DIFFERENT crowds is a bad idea, because if their opinions were to ever CLASH, your product will be labeled by the "WORST" of the bunch, NOT the best..

This is actually a very good point. It's difficult to market a product to a niche nowadays, even a niche that exists and has more than enough members to make a product profitable, because people who it's not meant for might buy it and give it bad ratings, post nasty things on forums, etc., and thereby discourage those for whom it would be a good product from buying it.

But, at the same time, I don't think it's an insurmountable problem; you just have to be very clear on who your product is meant for, and then make sure that it is aimed squarely at them in terms of where it's sold, what it's called, how it's advertised, what it looks like, etc.
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Offline tp4tissue

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Re: What is it: "Tactile Peripherals R77"?
« Reply #15 on: Sun, 10 February 2013, 14:21:50 »
Making product differentiation that appeals to DIFFERENT crowds is a bad idea, because if their opinions were to ever CLASH, your product will be labeled by the "WORST" of the bunch, NOT the best..

This is actually a very good point. It's difficult to market a product to a niche nowadays, even a niche that exists and has more than enough members to make a product profitable, because people who it's not meant for might buy it and give it bad ratings, post nasty things on forums, etc., and thereby discourage those for whom it would be a good product from buying it.

But, at the same time, I don't think it's an insurmountable problem; you just have to be very clear on who your product is meant for, and then make sure that it is aimed squarely at them in terms of where it's sold, what it's called, how it's advertised, what it looks like, etc.


Also, do not do what cooler-master does with the advertising using those trashy looking girls....

Most people would be very embarrassed by being associated with that type of product marketing.

Offline inteli722

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Re: What is it: "Tactile Peripherals R77"?
« Reply #16 on: Sun, 10 February 2013, 14:25:35 »
Also, do not do what cooler-master does with the advertising using those trashy looking girls....

Most people would be very embarrassed by being associated with that type of product marketing.

I can second this. I would rather the product sell by its merits than sold by appealing to bachelors 13-25
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Offline tp4tissue

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Re: What is it: "Tactile Peripherals R77"?
« Reply #17 on: Sun, 10 February 2013, 14:29:55 »
Also, do not do what cooler-master does with the advertising using those trashy looking girls....

Most people would be very embarrassed by being associated with that type of product marketing.

I can second this. I would rather the product sell by its merits than sold by appealing to bachelors 13-25

exactly... those harlots also don't compell someone to "BUY"

Put them on the showfloor, FINE,, but have them represent your product on your website, and saying STUPID STUPID lines that they can't even delivery properly.

example:

"a man needs to know which buttons to push, and I don't mind if you store the moves, If you're one of my more talented gamers, you can even create a macro"

This was said by girl in black dress + pr0nstar style makeup + exposed cleavage..

That is terrible...

Offline TactilePeripherals

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Re: What is it: "Tactile Peripherals R77"?
« Reply #18 on: Sun, 10 February 2013, 15:33:15 »
Wow, I did not expect that kind of response that quickly. I'll do my best to respond to what everyone said, though I may miss a few (don't worry, I read everyone's replies though).

Let me begin by saying I am not very knowledgeable about what's required to manufacture certain features. I assume that using plate mounted switches rather than permanently attached ones should not be too difficult nor add much expense, in which case we'll definitely opt to do that. However, keep in mind that I'm speculating.

Also, I have no idea how difficult or expensive it would be to have fully programmable keys. Again, if it's feasible, I don't see why not.

We are indeed a startup, and we're currently self funded, so we're quite limited in terms of what we can do as far as having a broad portfolio goes. To start out, we'll only have one keyboard model, as having multiple requires new tooling, which costs about $35,000 to set up. So for us, creating multiple keyboards from the get go is not economically feasible.

To explain what our market is, we're looking to create an extremely high end enthusiast keyboard that still appeals to gamers. However, don't take that to mean we'll have the same marketing and development strategies as the gamer oriented Asian manufacturers. In our case, we're all about the features. We came up with the idea for the R77 Ultimate because I kept getting different keyboards and thinking "oh, I wish it had this, or that, and they definitely should have done this." So I figured it best to come up with one that would appeal more to enthusiasts, and not skimp on features. If I had to choose a very specific market that we're looking to hit, it would be keyboard enthusiasts that also game regularly.

Also, keep in mind that we only created our render using a base of the Corsair K60, we have no intention of having a Corsair K60 clone. I love the idea of a full aluminum body keyboard, as in my opinion, it feels more solid and looks much better. We are not looking to create something super flashy, nor something as boring as the Monoprice keyboard I have. We want to create something sleek and classy (think Lian Li computer chassis).

We'd like to stick to our Double Shot keys as many people would like to have high quality keycaps, but don't want to go through the hassle of purchasing and replacing their own. We realize this increases the cost of our keyboard, but as I mentioned before, we don't want to cut features due to cost unless they're prohibitive.

We like the idea of the TrackPoint as long as it's feasible, and that will depend on whether the manufacturer we choose ends up being able to do it. However, isn't there a patent on it owned by Lenovo?

Also, as far as Black switches go, I didn't list them just because in my experience, they seem to be the least liked of the "main 4" (red, black, blue, brown) Cherry switches. If people want them, we can definitely provide them. Thankfully making keyboards with different MX switches is very easy, we just have to figure out which ones people will want to buy.

We'll definitely be sticking with dedicated media keys, I really dislike FN key media keys, and I always prefer a volume roller rather than discrete switches. For now, we'll be sticking to a full sized keyboard, but if we get good response, we'll definitely look into creating different form factor keyboards once we can afford the production.

Also, FoxWolf1, thanks for the suggestion about TG3, we'll definitely check them out. We know Costar is reputable and they make good stuff, but they only take moderately large orders, and we have limited funding. We're hesitant about working with just any manufacturer on mainland China as the quality can vary greatly. That's the reason we're looking for suggestions :-)

Thanks everyone for your feedback, I'll be checking back here regular to reply to any questions or get any more feedback you guys might have. Also, feel free to email me at ryan@tactileperipherals.com if you prefer.

Ryan

Edit: Also, I forgot to mention: the testimonials were by friends of ours who liked the feature set we had :-p
« Last Edit: Sun, 10 February 2013, 15:52:16 by TactilePeripherals »

Offline inteli722

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Re: What is it: "Tactile Peripherals R77"?
« Reply #19 on: Sun, 10 February 2013, 15:55:51 »
Between Plate-Mount or PCB-mount (neither is permanently attached), Plate-mount is definitely the way to go. The main thing we're looking at is a plate with a hole design like this:
(image courtesy of WFD)
So you can open up the top part of the switch without desoldering, effectively being able to swap switches without completely disassembling the board.

If you can bring an aluminum-bodied keyboard to market at $200 with features such as the plate shown above and fully customizable firmware, I'm fairly certain a majority of this forum would have a spot on the preorder form.

Absolutely no issue with out of the box Doubleshots as long as you don't use a weird font like CoolerMaster. I personally like the WYSE font used by Signature Plastics, but just any font in a similar manner (IE smooth curves, not blocky)

Trackpoint is nice, but not completely necessary, and if there is a patent that licensing would drive the price of the keyboard significantly up, the that would be find to not have.

Fully programmable keys shouldn't be too hard, and the major factor is how they will be programmed. I believe CM has a set of drivers that you use to program it easily, while on the other side of the spectrum, the Phantom keyboard (which was a custom keyboard DIY) used straight up code to program it. You really just need a controller that would accept outside code modifications I presume. Then again, I'm not the one to be lecturing about how to do it, so don't quote me. The Teensey 2.0 (controller used in the Phantom) is only about $20, so I would presume any other controller wouldn't be much more if they are more.

With the feature set planned and the willingness you're having accepting responses from us, this may end up being my one full-size keyboard!
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Offline TactilePeripherals

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Re: What is it: "Tactile Peripherals R77"?
« Reply #20 on: Sun, 10 February 2013, 16:07:56 »
Right, when I said permanently attached, I meant PCB mounted, as it's difficult enough to change the switches in those for me to consider them permanently attached :-p I think making the keyboards plate mounted should be no problem. And we'll definitely be sticking to an all aluminum design. We toyed with the idea of having some carbon fiber, but in the end, we believe all aluminum is easier and will look better.

Thanks for the recommendation on the font, we have no intention of using any weird fonts, we want something clear and easy to read.

I'll do my best to find out if the TrackPoint is feasible.

Also thank you for the recommendation on the programmable key controllers. Admittedly, I have next to no knowledge of keyboard controllers, so it's valuable information to me.

We hope we can bring this to market soon, and if we do get a lot of interest, we may stick with Costar as our manufacturer. They require a minimum order of 1000 keyboards, which is why we were hesitant, since it's a large expense, and we'd be taking on a lot of risk with an order that large. We think $200 is a reasonable price for the feature set, especially given the cost of manufacturing, but we may end up offering preorder discounts, especially to those on this forum, since you guys have been really helpful.

Offline CPTBadAss

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Re: What is it: "Tactile Peripherals R77"?
« Reply #21 on: Sun, 10 February 2013, 16:14:45 »
Is the layout going to remain ISO? When I was first looking into boards, my main complaint/deterrant from getting a Steelseries 6vg2 was that it had that weird humongous enter. I personally prefer the ANSI layout and wonder if that's the same for others. Just a thought.

Offline TactilePeripherals

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Re: What is it: "Tactile Peripherals R77"?
« Reply #22 on: Sun, 10 February 2013, 16:30:04 »
It will definitely be a standard ANSI layout, the ISO was just the one we had as the base for the mockup render. I hated the giant Enter key on the Meka G UNIT, and I really dislike non-standard keyboard layouts, so fear not, it will be the keyboard standard you all know and love.

Offline Burz

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Re: What is it: "Tactile Peripherals R77"?
« Reply #23 on: Sun, 10 February 2013, 16:58:07 »
The gaming keyboard market is saturated IMHO.

Cherry make switches that are excellent for gaming and industrial applications, but for typing they leave a lot to be desired. So if you want to really differentiate yourself and help justify that $200 price tag, I say you should consider targeting people who write a lot instead of gamers and offer an excellent tactile switch. IMO that means Topre or Matias. If you choose the latter, you would probably be the first 3rd party vendor with products bearing Matias switches.

Without going in a different direction like that, I think the concept you currently have would offer nothing new. It looks like a gaming keyboard bearing one of the Cherry colors (all the gaming keyboards offering a blue or brown claim they are "great for typing" because they have mechanical switches) in a pricey case.

What do you think?
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Offline sordna

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Re: What is it: "Tactile Peripherals R77"?
« Reply #24 on: Sun, 10 February 2013, 17:07:54 »
Tenkeyless with trackpoint would be HOT.
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Offline tp4tissue

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Re: What is it: "Tactile Peripherals R77"?
« Reply #25 on: Sun, 10 February 2013, 17:32:44 »
The gaming keyboard market is saturated IMHO.

Cherry make switches that are excellent for gaming and industrial applications, but for typing they leave a lot to be desired. So if you want to really differentiate yourself and help justify that $200 price tag, I say you should consider targeting people who write a lot instead of gamers and offer an excellent tactile switch. IMO that means Topre or Matias. If you choose the latter, you would probably be the first 3rd party vendor with products bearing Matias switches.

Without going in a different direction like that, I think the concept you currently have would offer nothing new. It looks like a gaming keyboard bearing one of the Cherry colors (all the gaming keyboards offering a blue or brown claim they are "great for typing" because they have mechanical switches) in a pricey case.

What do you think?


NO... NOoooo... DO NOT do this....

Topre obviously won't happen....

Alps... also means no custom keycaps....

UNLESS... tactical decides to get those alps to MX adapters out with all the alps boards.

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: What is it: "Tactile Peripherals R77"?
« Reply #26 on: Sun, 10 February 2013, 17:34:22 »
Tenkeyless with trackpoint would be HOT.

Trackpoint is a good addition, but NOT absolutely necessary.. It doesn't scroll precise enough for high volume desktop work..


When you have space for a keyboard, you'd have space for a mouse..


I would NEVER use a trackpoint if I don't have to...  Proud owner of several ibm tops.


Offline TactilePeripherals

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Re: What is it: "Tactile Peripherals R77"?
« Reply #27 on: Sun, 10 February 2013, 17:40:21 »
We originally considered Topre switches, but dealing with the company is not so easy to do, they make contacting the right people extremely difficult, and did not reply to us when we tried emailing their US branch. We figured Cherry MX switches are good quality, and somewhat of a standard among mechanical keyboards, so rather than try to be super unique and out there, we decided we'd stick with something we knew that worked well.

Offline MKULTRA

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Re: What is it: "Tactile Peripherals R77"?
« Reply #28 on: Sun, 10 February 2013, 17:47:12 »
Right, when I said permanently attached, I meant PCB mounted, as it's difficult enough to change the switches in those for me to consider them permanently attached :-p I think making the keyboards plate mounted should be no problem. And we'll definitely be sticking to an all aluminum design. We toyed with the idea of having some carbon fiber, but in the end, we believe all aluminum is easier and will look better.

Thanks for the recommendation on the font, we have no intention of using any weird fonts, we want something clear and easy to read.

I'll do my best to find out if the TrackPoint is feasible.

Also thank you for the recommendation on the programmable key controllers. Admittedly, I have next to no knowledge of keyboard controllers, so it's valuable information to me.

We hope we can bring this to market soon, and if we do get a lot of interest, we may stick with Costar as our manufacturer. They require a minimum order of 1000 keyboards, which is why we were hesitant, since it's a large expense, and we'd be taking on a lot of risk with an order that large. We think $200 is a reasonable price for the feature set, especially given the cost of manufacturing, but we may end up offering preorder discounts, especially to those on this forum, since you guys have been really helpful.

That plate in specific is the design you should use is what he is saying.  The plates on other keyboards like Filco's require you to desolder every switch for removal, the plate he posted does not.  Just trying to make that clear.

Offline FoxWolf1

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Re: What is it: "Tactile Peripherals R77"?
« Reply #29 on: Sun, 10 February 2013, 17:48:47 »
Trackpoint is a good addition, but NOT absolutely necessary.. It doesn't scroll precise enough for high volume desktop work..

When you have space for a keyboard, you'd have space for a mouse..

I would NEVER use a trackpoint if I don't have to...  Proud owner of several ibm tops.

Whenever I've had a TrackPoint keyboard (like on my IBM laptop), I found myself using both the TrackPoint and an external mouse...

Where the TrackPoint comes into its own is when your work is something that requires you to switch between typing and moving the mouse every few seconds. A TrackPoint is the only pointing device that you can use without having to take your hand out of typing position, so it can save you a lot of time and effort in such situations compared to a mouse. Also, for more casual use, it's nice to have another control method to switch to during long periods of use, to reduce fatigue from doing the same motions over and over.

I don't agree that a TrackPoint isn't precise enough for intensive desktop work. My experience with TrackPoints is that, once you have a decent level of practice, it's precise enough for any purpose except for demanding games (assuming you're using a decent TrackPoint, not an ancient version or some sketchy knockoff).
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Offline BucklingSpring

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Re: What is it: "Tactile Peripherals R77"?
« Reply #30 on: Sun, 10 February 2013, 17:49:17 »
We chose Browns initially because they're a good middle ground. We're considering Brown, Blue, Red, and Green. If any of you have a preference, also feel free to let me know.

Ryan

I would be interested in MX Green if all of them clicks ;-)

Send a PM to Matias (the user) he represents Matias the company. They revived the ALPS switches and their new Quiet version is simply fantastic. Quieter than Brown and better tactility. I suppose tactility might have something to do with your core values... Give them a shout. You never know.
« Last Edit: Sun, 10 February 2013, 18:30:17 by BucklingSpring »
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Ducky x2 (9008G2 Pro PBT/MX Green and Mini MX Red), Matias x2 (QP and Mini QP Dampened ALPS), Topre RealForce x4 (87U 55g/Digilog case, 103U-UW & 104UG High-Profile x2), Filco Majestouch x2 (TKL MX Blue & V2 AI 104 MX Blue), IBM-M x2 (BS & RD), Unicomp-M x5 (BS black on black x2, BS Ivory x2, QT Ultra-Classic), Deck x4 (Legend MX Black & MX Clear, Hassium & Francium w/ MX Brown), DAS III (MX Blue), KBT Pure Pro 60% (MX Red), NMB-RT8256CW+ x2 (black space invader), XArmor U9BL-S (MX Brown) given for free to someone I hate, CM X2 (Trigger/MX Green + Storm TKL/NovaTouch), TVS GOLD (MX Blue) and a many many more (NMB, DELL, MS, ATT, KeyTronic, Etc...)

Offline BucklingSpring

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Re: What is it: "Tactile Peripherals R77"?
« Reply #31 on: Sun, 10 February 2013, 17:54:58 »
If you can bring an aluminum-bodied keyboard to market at $200 with features such as the plate shown above and fully customizable firmware, I'm fairly certain a majority of this forum would have a spot on the preorder form.

Here's my CC number *****************
Where do I sign?
Can I buy stock options?

I'm old school with a big estate. I would like it full size. please.
In memory of smallfry 1996-2013
Boards I own, click ->
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Ducky x2 (9008G2 Pro PBT/MX Green and Mini MX Red), Matias x2 (QP and Mini QP Dampened ALPS), Topre RealForce x4 (87U 55g/Digilog case, 103U-UW & 104UG High-Profile x2), Filco Majestouch x2 (TKL MX Blue & V2 AI 104 MX Blue), IBM-M x2 (BS & RD), Unicomp-M x5 (BS black on black x2, BS Ivory x2, QT Ultra-Classic), Deck x4 (Legend MX Black & MX Clear, Hassium & Francium w/ MX Brown), DAS III (MX Blue), KBT Pure Pro 60% (MX Red), NMB-RT8256CW+ x2 (black space invader), XArmor U9BL-S (MX Brown) given for free to someone I hate, CM X2 (Trigger/MX Green + Storm TKL/NovaTouch), TVS GOLD (MX Blue) and a many many more (NMB, DELL, MS, ATT, KeyTronic, Etc...)

Offline Burz

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Re: What is it: "Tactile Peripherals R77"?
« Reply #32 on: Sun, 10 February 2013, 18:19:01 »
NO... NOoooo... DO NOT do this....

Topre obviously won't happen....

Alps... also means no custom keycaps....

UNLESS... tactical decides to get those alps to MX adapters out with all the alps boards.

You have a point, but its not very pertinent: Custom keycaps are pretty much gamer/hobbyist territory. And the proportion of custom caps that are cheap and garish is so large that most other people wouldn't take a second look at the genre (esp. if they look on GH  :)) ).

Matias Mini QuietPro  \\ Dell AT101W - Black ALPS  \\ SIIG MiniTouch x2 White XM - Monterey  \\ Colemak layout.

Offline FoxWolf1

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Re: What is it: "Tactile Peripherals R77"?
« Reply #33 on: Sun, 10 February 2013, 18:49:13 »
NO... NOoooo... DO NOT do this....

Topre obviously won't happen....

Alps... also means no custom keycaps....

UNLESS... tactical decides to get those alps to MX adapters out with all the alps boards.

You have a point, but its not very pertinent: Custom keycaps are pretty much gamer/hobbyist territory. And the proportion of custom caps that are cheap and garish is so large that most other people wouldn't take a second look at the genre (esp. if they look on GH  :)) ).

Also, back when ALPS were more common, there were custom keycaps for them. If the switch recovers its popularity, the keycaps might come back as well.

Though, as a linear switch user, I'd have to vote in favor of Cherry MX switches. As far as I know, there isn't a linear ALPS that can really hold its own against MX Black.
« Last Edit: Sun, 10 February 2013, 18:58:17 by FoxWolf1 »
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Offline inteli722

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Re: What is it: "Tactile Peripherals R77"?
« Reply #34 on: Sun, 10 February 2013, 18:55:47 »
NO... NOoooo... DO NOT do this....

Topre obviously won't happen....

Alps... also means no custom keycaps....

UNLESS... tactical decides to get those alps to MX adapters out with all the alps boards.

You have a point, but its not very pertinent: Custom keycaps are pretty much gamer/hobbyist territory. And the proportion of custom caps that are cheap and garish is so large that most other people wouldn't take a second look at the genre (esp. if they look on GH  :)) ).

Well this keyboard is aimed at enthusiasts...which I interpret as hobbyists...

I don't see anyone who isn't a gamer/enthusiast buying mechanical keyboards unless they type a lot for work, and there's already an ALPs keyboard if you want. I would rather see this keyboard in Cherry MX.
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Offline TactilePeripherals

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Re: What is it: "Tactile Peripherals R77"?
« Reply #35 on: Sun, 10 February 2013, 19:02:58 »
Right, when I said permanently attached, I meant PCB mounted, as it's difficult enough to change the switches in those for me to consider them permanently attached :-p I think making the keyboards plate mounted should be no problem. And we'll definitely be sticking to an all aluminum design. We toyed with the idea of having some carbon fiber, but in the end, we believe all aluminum is easier and will look better.

Thanks for the recommendation on the font, we have no intention of using any weird fonts, we want something clear and easy to read.

I'll do my best to find out if the TrackPoint is feasible.

Also thank you for the recommendation on the programmable key controllers. Admittedly, I have next to no knowledge of keyboard controllers, so it's valuable information to me.

We hope we can bring this to market soon, and if we do get a lot of interest, we may stick with Costar as our manufacturer. They require a minimum order of 1000 keyboards, which is why we were hesitant, since it's a large expense, and we'd be taking on a lot of risk with an order that large. We think $200 is a reasonable price for the feature set, especially given the cost of manufacturing, but we may end up offering preorder discounts, especially to those on this forum, since you guys have been really helpful.

That plate in specific is the design you should use is what he is saying.  The plates on other keyboards like Filco's require you to desolder every switch for removal, the plate he posted does not.  Just trying to make that clear.

Thanks, I'll definitely keep that in mind when we're creating the plans with the manufacturer.

Also, BucklingSpring, we'll consider the possibility of ALPS switches, and I'll PM Matias after conferring with the other co-owner. However, we'll likely stick to a Cherry design for now, as most manufacturers are set up to make keyboards that use Cherry switches, and can easily procure them. All options are on the table for future models however, and we would definitely consider ALPS switches going forward. I've never had a chance to try them out myself, and I'd like to at some point. Also, hopefully we can get a model with Green switches, as they seem to be relatively popular among enthusiasts, I don't think it should be a problem. And as far as stock options go, we may look for investors, but I'm not in charge of the finances in this endeavor, so if you're legitimately interested in the possibility of investing, PM me and I'll put you in contact with the other co-owner. We'll be offering preorders once we have a design finalized and we're ready to start producing.

Offline Sniping

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Re: What is it: "Tactile Peripherals R77"?
« Reply #36 on: Sun, 10 February 2013, 19:49:16 »
I'm not sure if this can be changed at this point, but I think Tenkeyless is a big up for gamers, it just feels....right. I love Cherry MX Blue and Green switches, I really want to get a keyboard with blues for the alphabet and greens for everything else, but I'll have to wait because the one I have my eyes on is only sold in Taiwan lol. Also, I'm not sure if I'm alone on this one, but I like smaller cases/chassis like the ones from Filco, Ducky, KBC etc. but I love the aluminum, I see people paying $200+ for anodized aluminum cases for their keyboards in bright colors here. I'm not sure about the Double shot keycaps, I'm a fan of blank keycaps, so if I were to buy this keyboard, I wouldn't make use of the double shot keycaps, I'm more interested in PBT keycaps either way, blank or not.

Offline sordna

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Re: What is it: "Tactile Peripherals R77"?
« Reply #37 on: Sun, 10 February 2013, 20:01:17 »
Sure the trackpoint is not as good as a mouse, but there is no tenkeyless keyboard with one, and there is a high demand for it. Even with a mouse, I would use it for the frequent clicking/scrolling/rasing windows I need to do while typing, since it's frustrating having to move your entire hand to reach the mouse when you're mostly typing. I'd rather use the mouse for drawing or gaming, and the trackpoint for raising windows or clicking buttons, to highlight text during word processing, etc.

Look how excited people got for the mini guru (which didn't even happen):
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=4917.450

BTW trackpoints are not a Lenovo exclusive, Unicomp also has a trackpoint on their EnduraPro keyboard
http://pckeyboard.com/page/category/EnduraPro

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Offline FoxWolf1

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Re: What is it: "Tactile Peripherals R77"?
« Reply #38 on: Sun, 10 February 2013, 20:08:08 »
Rumor has it that Unicomp's version isn't up to the level of the real thing...

But still, when, everywhere you look, you see 99999 laptop replacement keyboards with TrackPoints (or TrackPointish-looking things) for sale, it seems odd that it'd be utterly impossible to source one for other uses.
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Offline rootwyrm

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Re: What is it: "Tactile Peripherals R77"?
« Reply #39 on: Sun, 10 February 2013, 20:13:51 »
Sure the trackpoint is not as good as a mouse, but there is no tenkeyless keyboard with one, and there is a high demand for it. Even with a mouse, I would use it for the frequent clicking/scrolling/rasing windows I need to do while typing, since it's frustrating having to move your entire hand to reach the mouse when you're mostly typing. I'd rather use the mouse for drawing or gaming, and the trackpoint for raising windows or clicking buttons, to highlight text during word processing, etc.

Look how excited people got for the mini guru (which didn't even happen):
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=4917.450

BTW trackpoints are not a Lenovo exclusive, Unicomp also has a trackpoint on their EnduraPro keyboard
http://pckeyboard.com/page/category/EnduraPro

Trackpoints are anything but a Lenovo exclusive. First, pointing sticks date to 1984 and comes from PARC, specifically Ted Selker. He then went to IBM, and the refined design was named the TrackPoint. The actual patent for the TrackPoint does not apply to TrackPoint I, but TrackPoint II and dates to 1996.

Unicomp EnduraPros use the TrackPoint II design, which is very long obsoleted by the III and IV. (Current Lenovo's are TrackPoint IV with intertia as I recall - might be up to V though?)
HP offers the PointStick on all current EliteBooks and many ProBooks. NEC offers the NX Point on the EasyMate family and select keyboards. Sony and Samsung both offer Pointing Stick models including on current Vaios and Serie 4/6. Fujitsu has the StickPoint and QuickPoint on a number of their laptops. Dell has the Track Stick which is frankly awful. Toshiba has the AccuPoint. List goes on.
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Offline FoxWolf1

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Re: What is it: "Tactile Peripherals R77"?
« Reply #40 on: Sun, 10 February 2013, 20:24:58 »
By the way, re: TrackPoint, I found this interesting.
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Offline CPTBadAss

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Re: What is it: "Tactile Peripherals R77"?
« Reply #41 on: Sun, 10 February 2013, 20:26:18 »
Oh and I forgot to say, I really like Cherry MX Blues. More switch options are always good ^_^