CMStorm QuickFire XT or WASD V2?

[cyberdeath]

Hi everyone,

I was looking at CES 2013 coverage and saw that Cooler Master is releasing the CMStorm QuickFire XT.  It is touted as minimalistic and slim (two things I really like in a keyboard...small, functional, and not overly "gawdy").

However, I see that WASD Keyboards is about to release V2 in March with a much nicer bezel (that is why I have been hesitant on the WASD keyboards...I really do not like the V1 front bezel).  WASD is also small, functional, and allows me to choose the "classic" laser-etched keyboard configuration.

So, if you had to choose between one of these two, which one would you want?  Why?

Thanks! :-)

[kwago]

hrmm the V2 has dip switches for QWERTY, Dvorak, Colemak, and Mac operation modes and comes out months before the XT. If it comes full size I will definitely consider it.

[MattBuzzy]

The V2 mechanical keyboard will be available in both 104, 105, 87, and 88 key variants. We will also be releasing two models with white LED back lighting.

I will definitely be considering one, especially if they release one with greens!

[kwago]

i have a QFR with greens. I thought I would like it more than I did. So many times while typing fast I stuff would not register because I did not press hard enough :|
I think part of it could be psychological because I use it at work and it is often very quiet and I try not to make too much racket. I'm gonna give it a second try at home, strictly for when i work from home - could not imagine gaming with greens  ヘ（。□°）ヘ

[Hyde]

Mmmmm I think it really depends on what you want in a keyboard.  Like they said the V2 has a lot more options and backlit option too (Only white LED though).

V2 will be out around March and XT will be out around late April.  Currently V1 is priced at $120, I'm guessing V2 will cost a bit more than that considering the features.  And XT will most likely fall around $85.

The case design will be preference, but I think I like XT a bit better, even though V2 is already an improvement over V1.

For me personally since I don't need the extra features, I'd rather get XT for cheaper also better looking (in my opinion).  You can also pick up XT locally and save shipping fee compare to V2.  But ultimate it really is what YOU want in a keyboard 

[MattBuzzy]

Glad to hear your input on the green switches, definitely want to feel what they are like before I buy. I got a sample blue and it feels really nice, but I like the weight of the blacks so I was thinking greens may be even better. Would hate to use either blues or greens for extended gaming though, i prefer a linear key movement when I have to hold a key down and like to bottom out when I game.

[Hyde]

I just did a mini test on shipping, for WASD to ship to my house it will cost $33.45 making it total at $153.44.  I don't know where you live so shipping price might be different.

BUT you have to decide if $153.44 vs $85 is worth it 

[MattBuzzy]

If I can get the quickfire with the colour switches I want locally, definitely that one. That said when I went looking for a mechanical keyboard the only pc shop with any mecahnical keyboards within a reasonable distance frome me, only had blackwidows.... Urgh

[OnTheBrink]

Personally I am preparing to purchase a V2 model Tenkeyless myself.

People rave about the quality of V1 and even go as far as saying it is a
Ightly more sturdy and solid than Filco and uses same company for the internals.

Speaking to the owner of WASD has been a pleasure, I respect/support up and coming companies and their attention to detail and customer feedback is superb.

Not to mention, the fact that V2 has absolutely no branding on it is a major selling point for me. I am going to mod it with custom PTB keys so ill be spending even more than the generous price.

You need to decide if quality is worth paying more. To me it is and the age old quote applies here... "You get what you pay for".

[kwago]

Glad to hear your input on the green switches, definitely want to feel what they are like before I buy. I got a sample blue and it feels really nice, but I like the weight of the blacks so I was thinking greens may be even better. Would hate to use either blues or greens for extended gaming though, i prefer a linear key movement when I have to hold a key down and like to bottom out when I game.

Well Blues are 50cN and blacks are 60cN, greens however clock in at 80cN (!!!). This is a pretty huge jump and I definitely feel it when it comes to stuff not registering - mainly when I have to use my right pinky and ring finger. One switch you may want to try are Clears (55cN) or ALPS Blacks. I currently use a Dell AT101W at work (went back to it after trying greens for a couple months) and it is just so nice.  I read somewhere that Clears are closest to these and I actually have a few Clear switches but it is hard to gauge without a full Clear board.

[tp4tissue]

Glad to hear your input on the green switches, definitely want to feel what they are like before I buy. I got a sample blue and it feels really nice, but I like the weight of the blacks so I was thinking greens may be even better. Would hate to use either blues or greens for extended gaming though, i prefer a linear key movement when I have to hold a key down and like to bottom out when I game.

Well Blues are 50cN and blacks are 60cN, greens however clock in at 80cN (!!!). This is a pretty huge jump and I definitely feel it when it comes to stuff not registering - mainly when I have to use my right pinky and ring finger. One switch you may want to try are Clears (55cN) or ALPS Blacks. I currently use a Dell AT101W at work (went back to it after trying greens for a couple months) and it is just so nice.  I read somewhere that Clears are closest to these and I actually have a few Clear switches but it is hard to gauge without a full Clear board.

Nooooooooooo......

Green spring is the same as black spring.

[kwago]

Nooooooooooo......

Green spring is the same as black spring.

http://deskthority.net/wiki/Cherry_MX_Black

http://deskthority.net/wiki/Cherry_MX_Green

[rootwyrm]

The V2 mechanical keyboard will be available in both 104, 105, 87, and 88 key variants. We will also be releasing two models with white LED back lighting.

I will definitely be considering one, especially if they release one with greens!

I talked to them about MX Greens. The word I got from them was "yes, they are coming. But not until very late in 2013." I didn't think to ask about MX Whites (which are very similar to greens and may be available sooner.)
The QuickFire XT will come with MX Greens on day one or thereabouts, supposedly. I haven't seen any official confirmation.

Both have media keys (yes, WASD v2 has media keys! YAY!) neither has PBT keycaps (yet).

So if you need to buy immediately, QuickFire XT - which is a damn sexy and solid keyboard anyway. If you don't mind waiting, WASD v2 is coming.

[verbhal]

Seems like whatever you go with there are some sweet boards coming out within a couple months. 

[tp4tissue]

Nooooooooooo......

Green spring is the same as black spring.

http://deskthority.net/wiki/Cherry_MX_Black

http://deskthority.net/wiki/Cherry_MX_Green

well, they're wrong.

[kwago]

well, they're wrong.

Green switches are a stiffer version of Blue switches, with a tactile bump and audible click, weighted at 80 cN. It is primarily used for space bars.

I couldn't find any link saying that the springs are the same, but the design itself could warrant the extra required resistance.

[tauburn]

Nooooooooooo......

Green spring is the same as black spring.

http://deskthority.net/wiki/Cherry_MX_Black

http://deskthority.net/wiki/Cherry_MX_Green

well, they're wrong.

nope

[rootwyrm]

[cyberdeath]

So from what I have gathered from everyone (without quoting everyone) is this:

1. It depends on personal preference (that's a given...hence why I asked what YOU want, not me :-) ).
2. Depends on how much you want to spend (but you get what you pay for)
3. Timeframe: March for WASD & April for CMStorm
4. Features: Media Keys & Green Keycaps vary
5. Filco is similar to WASD

Here are my questions:
1. I see someone mentioned March & April, but I also saw someone mention you can buy an XT now...so, when is it really available?  If I could buy one right now, I think I'd personally be swayed...
2. I have read through the boards about Filco & WASD being similar (bezel difference, though...others point out other differences).  So, would I be correct in saying that this Leopold (FC500RC/AB) is similar to the up and coming CMStorm XT? Basically, what is the difference between these two keyboards?
3. Finally, price was mentioned as a contingency.  However, if price did not matter, which one is really the better board? ("you get what you pay for" isn't always true...as you can also "get what you overpay for".)

So, if some of you could provide some insight on the above, I'd appreciate it!  Of course, keep your thoughts coming on which one of those two boards is better (I'm not trying to stop the conversation :-) ).

[MattBuzzy]

In my opinion the CM Storm is worth it's weight in gold, and the WASD and Filco are a bit overpriced at around double the CM for essentially the same thing, this said, Coolermaster are a massive company and can afford to offer a lower price point due o mass production and income from other products. From what I have heard the WASD and Filco have a higher build quality, and the Filco is the most popular.

If money was no object, I would go the Filco, or even a backlit Ducky.

[rootwyrm]

3. Timeframe: March for WASD & April for CMStorm
4. Features: Media Keys & Green Keycaps vary

Whoops, nope. This is not correct. Possibly I did a bad job explaining.
WASD is saying around March for the v2 and late 2013 for MX Green switches. CM Storm is saying March-April timeframe for the next generation and MX Green switches at release. So the biggest difference there is only if you want MX Green switches.
Media keys are on both WASD v2 and CM Storm. (They are not on the WASD v1 though, which is where I think the confusion comes from.) So come March-April timeframe, you can have 105 + media keys from either WASD or CM Storm.

1. I see someone mentioned March & April, but I also saw someone mention you can buy an XT now...so, when is it really available?  If I could buy one right now, I think I'd personally be swayed...

You cannot buy the QuickFire XT yet. You cannot even preorder the QuickFire XT. Possibly they got confused with the QuickFire TK. You should be able to order it direct when it's released.

2. I have read through the boards about Filco & WASD being similar (bezel difference, though...others point out other differences).  So, would I be correct in saying that this Leopold (FC500RC/AB) is similar to the up and coming CMStorm XT? Basically, what is the difference between these two keyboards?

The WASD v1 is a Costar CST-104 "Sydney." (Anyone saying otherwise is just plain wrong.) Identical, and I do mean identical keyboards include the Thermaltake Meka G1 and Das Keyboard 2 (which is a re-cased CST-104). WASD v2 I don't think we know what OEM it is, though it is a very heavily customized design regardless, including a pre-cut plate mount. So pretty moot as nobody will have an identical part. Those who are claiming the WASD v1 is 'overpriced' are just plain wrong. The Thermaltake Meka G1 costs more and uses what have to be the thinnest, lowest quality, cheapest feeling ABS keycaps in existence.
The CM Storm QuickFire XT is an unknown other than that it will be Costar. I don't believe we have any details on the design, but feel free to correct me if we do.

3. Finally, price was mentioned as a contingency.  However, if price did not matter, which one is really the better board? ("you get what you pay for" isn't always true...as you can also "get what you overpay for".)

This one is absolutely impossible to say until we've had our hands on both keyboards, period. Differences are more than skin deep on these, there's no guarantee there won't be teething problems with either, and simply put, nobody's touched either production part. That said, if you remove price as a factor both WASD and CM Storm produce excellent quality keyboards and provide solid customer service by all accounts. WASD you pay a bit more, but remember that extra is to cover the fact that you can totally customize your keycaps - so you are getting what you're paying for there.
Cooler Master has already said that the next generation QuickFires will be at the same price points as the current ones. I don't think WASD has given pricing information on the v2 yet as the design is still being finalized, but I would honestly expect v2 to be the same price as v1. (Maybe +$10 if they get the mod-friendly plate in it?) The fact is that both of them provide very solid values for their given price points, so if you remove price as a differentiating factor, it leaves only personal preference.

[jabar]

I wouldn't consider WASD V2 due to the myriad of other options that will cost less.

[Hyde]

Keep in mind that WASD Keyboards and CM Storm and Filco are all made by Costar.  But like people said Filco and WASD Keyboards probably has a slight edge over CM Storm in quality.  But they also cost almost double the price compare to CM Storm.

This is kind of why I generally recommend CM Storm.

But if money is no object, I'd say get a Filco or WASD Keyboard.  Otherwise CM Storm is almost the same quality for way cheaper.

[cyberdeath]

2. I have read through the boards about Filco & WASD being similar (bezel difference, though...others point out other differences).  So, would I be correct in saying that this Leopold (FC500RC/AB) is similar to the up and coming CMStorm XT? Basically, what is the difference between these two keyboards?

Alright, I guess I should have rephrased this question as well because I meant it in two parts.  By the way, thanks to rootwyrm for the detailed reply :-D (and yes, you interpreted my primary question correctly).

However, I am curious to know what is the difference between the Leopold and the other two keyboards as well?  So, what makes the CM Storm or WASD v2 better (or different) than the Leopold?

I ask because as others compare the different models, it seems like there are a lot of similarities and it makes it difficult for me to see where one outshines the other (read: Filco & WASD) besides preference.

I could buy that Leopold right now...but, if the others are much better, waiting is worth it, too.

Thoughts?

[rootwyrm]

Keep in mind that WASD Keyboards and CM Storm and Filco are all made by Costar.  But like people said Filco and WASD Keyboards probably has a slight edge over CM Storm in quality.  But they also cost almost double the price compare to CM Storm.

This is kind of why I generally recommend CM Storm.

But if money is no object, I'd say get a Filco or WASD Keyboard.  Otherwise CM Storm is almost the same quality for way cheaper.

Again: you are paying for the ability to completely customize all of your keycaps with the WASD. Please stop ignoring that, because keycaps are not magically free or no cost, especially not one-offs. There is a cost to preparing and making these keycaps. This is built into the cost of the keyboard. The actual cost difference when you factor this in is nil.

A complete WASD v1 104 key ANSI keyboard with your choice of switches is $119.99 including keycap puller, your choice of keycap color and engraving method, and your choice of layouts including Colemak, Dvorak, a red escape key, need I go on? And this is not fully customized - these are all zero additional cost options.
A CM Storm Trigger 104 key ANSI keyboard with your choice of switches is $100-$110 and only includes a keycap puller and 4 keycaps.

What you are paying for with a WASD v1 is a whopping $10 to $20 'premium' for an very high level of customization, some of which is simply not possible with the CM Storm Trigger without - you guessed it - spending more money. (And nevermind that WASD covers their keycaps as part of their warranty, regardless of customization level.)

Quality and service between the two is very comparable, and you're unlikely to be disappointed with either one. Both are very solid keyboards and both are offered at very reasonable price points. WASD's price point is extremely reasonable, to put it mildly, for what you get. The CM Storm line similarly, is very reasonably priced for what you get.

So ultimately, as I said, neither outshines the other. It comes down to your personal preference.

[cyberdeath]

Keep in mind that WASD Keyboards and CM Storm and Filco are all made by Costar.  But like people said Filco and WASD Keyboards probably has a slight edge over CM Storm in quality.  But they also cost almost double the price compare to CM Storm.

This is kind of why I generally recommend CM Storm.

But if money is no object, I'd say get a Filco or WASD Keyboard.  Otherwise CM Storm is almost the same quality for way cheaper.

Again: you are paying for the ability to completely customize all of your keycaps with the WASD. Please stop ignoring that, because keycaps are not magically free or no cost, especially not one-offs. There is a cost to preparing and making these keycaps. This is built into the cost of the keyboard. The actual cost difference when you factor this in is nil.

A complete WASD v1 104 key ANSI keyboard with your choice of switches is $119.99 including keycap puller, your choice of keycap color and engraving method, and your choice of layouts including Colemak, Dvorak, a red escape key, need I go on? And this is not fully customized - these are all zero additional cost options.
A CM Storm Trigger 104 key ANSI keyboard with your choice of switches is $100-$110 and only includes a keycap puller and 4 keycaps.

What you are paying for with a WASD v1 is a whopping $10 to $20 'premium' for an very high level of customization, some of which is simply not possible with the CM Storm Trigger without - you guessed it - spending more money. (And nevermind that WASD covers their keycaps as part of their warranty, regardless of customization level.)

Quality and service between the two is very comparable, and you're unlikely to be disappointed with either one. Both are very solid keyboards and both are offered at very reasonable price points. WASD's price point is extremely reasonable, to put it mildly, for what you get. The CM Storm line similarly, is very reasonably priced for what you get.

So ultimately, as I said, neither outshines the other. It comes down to your personal preference.

Thank you again, rootwyrm, for the explanation.  I guess I should have also stated that I am personally not looking for heavy customization.  I'd be quite happy with an all-black case and black keys with white laser-etched characters mechanical keyboard that functions well.  Actually, that's what I'm looking for...something minimalistic and functional.

However, the reason for this thread was more for me to better understand everyone's thoughts on the new offerings for 2013 since I didn't see anyone else who had made a thread about these two particular keyboards (and I'm the one responsible for digressing :-|).  So, for some people (and if I were to purchase another mechanical keyboard for home use), I think you are exactly right...you are basically saying you either pay a little more upfront and get a heavily customized keyboard from WASD or buy from another company and end up having to look to WASD or a similar company to purchase the custom keycaps.  Hopefully I am understanding correctly.

Also, from what you quoted Hyde saying (and I read him say earlier in another post), it sounds like the CM Storm XT is what I should be aiming for since the quality to cost ratio is too high for the other boards (little better quality @ a lot more cost).

Now, with all of that said, if a particular keyboard has "extremely superior" keycaps and engraving then I would say the cost may be justified to go with something besides the CMStorm (I don't think you were alluding to this, though...but merely the other customizations available).  It looks like everyone is using the same plastics (the boards that I have mentioned), the same engraving option (laser), and the only difference may be the font used.  But, ultimately all of this, I think, is preference and not a major differentiating factor (as you mentioned)...

It's extremely tough to choose between the two.  Both companies are extremely eager to listen to compliments/complaints and make changes as needed.

If you are certain and know which switch type you love and have the financial means - go ahead and buy both.  Use one for work and one for home.  Or have one as a back up.

That way you'll never be wondering "what if."

Wise words that I may have to take into consideration...

[Hyde]

Again: you are paying for the ability to completely customize all of your keycaps with the WASD. Please stop ignoring that, because keycaps are not magically free or no cost, especially not one-offs. There is a cost to preparing and making these keycaps. This is built into the cost of the keyboard. The actual cost difference when you factor this in is nil.

A complete WASD v1 104 key ANSI keyboard with your choice of switches is $119.99 including keycap puller, your choice of keycap color and engraving method, and your choice of layouts including Colemak, Dvorak, a red escape key, need I go on? And this is not fully customized - these are all zero additional cost options.
A CM Storm Trigger 104 key ANSI keyboard with your choice of switches is $100-$110 and only includes a keycap puller and 4 keycaps.

What you are paying for with a WASD v1 is a whopping $10 to $20 'premium' for an very high level of customization, some of which is simply not possible with the CM Storm Trigger without - you guessed it - spending more money. (And nevermind that WASD covers their keycaps as part of their warranty, regardless of customization level.)

Quality and service between the two is very comparable, and you're unlikely to be disappointed with either one. Both are very solid keyboards and both are offered at very reasonable price points. WASD's price point is extremely reasonable, to put it mildly, for what you get. The CM Storm line similarly, is very reasonably priced for what you get.

So ultimately, as I said, neither outshines the other. It comes down to your personal preference.

While I agree with you but the biggest turning point for me is shipping fee.  Since with WASD you're forced to pay shipping fee unless you live in California.  That brings the price up to $153.44.  And this price is for the basic board WASD Keyboard so the only customization you get is keycap layout and colors on ABS Keycaps.  If you want custom graphic on your keycaps then we're talking about another price tier and that's a whole different story.

As for the same price you pay for the basic WASD Keyboard can buy a CM Storm XT ($85) + a set of PBT keycaps with the color and engraving/laser print that you want ($50-60).  So you don't lose out on the customization really.

But yeah I guess ultimately depends on what kind of board you want and how much customization you prefer.  For me I like to keep it simple so I'd rather not pay for customization that I don't need.

Though if WASD Keyboard can ship for free or can be acquired locally, then I'd say it will be a lot tougher to decide between the two.


EDIT:  I noticed you listed CM Storm Trigger ($100-$110) as example.  But CM Storm Trigger doesn't not have the same "bang for the buck" factor as CM Storm QuickFire XT (around $85).

[tp4tissue]

I'm actually hoping the wasd v2 fits into the vortex aluminum case..

it might conflict with the dip switches, but I don't care for that sort of gimmicky stuff... Give me programmability or give me death.

[lazerpointer]

I just really hope the V2 is available in Cherry browns. There's a shortage of them (yeah, because they are the most practical) so I hope WASD isn't affected by the shortage!

[Hyde]

Yeah Carter even said that CM Storm TK MX Brown isn't delayed due to shortage, it's due to other reasons.  So I'm pretty sure there are plenty of MX Brown switch around in the market.

[davkol]

On the other hand, browns aren't offered in the ErgoDox GB.