Bought an IBM M13. Didn't like it as much - update: It is growing on me...

[longface]

Just received the IBM M13 in the mail.  As a long-time ThinkPad user, it felt natural for me to buy an M13 even though I already have two Model Ms.  However, material and feel of this 1998 Maxi Switch are both very different from my 1993 1391401 Model M.

First, the texture of plastic material of the frame is so rough and harsh.  And it looks "thin" and uneven, because there are multiple spots of material shrinkage after being injection molded.  As a result, the plastic looks cheap.

Second, the sound of key strokes is sort of "clanky", quite different from the "clicky" sound from the Model M.

Third, the connection cable is the fixed type, and it is flat.  It looks cheap, too.

Fourth, weight of the keyboard is much lighter than the Model M.

Fifth, the trackpoint feels stiff, and the two buttons very mushy and unclear.  Why couldn't they make the two buttons bigger, and clickyer?

Well, as you can see, I'm a little disappointed.  Maybe I had expected too much from this one.....

[tp4tissue]

victim of inane worship...

[keymaster]

victim of inane worship...

..perhaps the wisest thing you've ever said. I don't even want to know how much he paid for it.

[schizrade]

I found one in a thrift store for $4. Not bad for that price.

[longface]

victim of inane worship...

..perhaps the wisest thing you've ever said. I don't even want to know how much he paid for it.

And I won't tell you.

[sth]

victim of inane worship...

you're not wrong walter, you're just an ass hole

[eth0s]

victim of inane worship...

you're not wrong walter, you're just an ass hole

Major League one at that.

[Michael]

victim of inane worship...

..perhaps the wisest thing you've ever said. I don't even want to know how much he paid for it.

And I won't tell you.

You must have paid around $250 if this came from where I think it did on ebay. Guy had several NIB for around that much BIN price.

[mangobaobab]

I bought m4-1 and felt the same. I gave money for nothing.

[tp4tissue]

Same goes for topre, but those people are on whole 'nother level of self-deceit.

In many ways going full circle BACK to rubber dome, woooooooo  HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA


OP, please don't take what I say as offensive, we've all been there... at least like me, you've realized and can admit that you were let down..

The Topre crowd for example can't even do that, they're so impossibly deluded. 

F... Topre.... and everyone who told me topre was $300 awesome... it was maybe $100 awesome at best...   

[keymaster]

victim of inane worship...

..perhaps the wisest thing you've ever said. I don't even want to know how much he paid for it.

And I won't tell you.

You must have paid around $250 if this came from where I think it did on ebay. Guy had several NIB for around that much BIN price.

I think my avatar needs to be updated..

[Michael]

Same goes for topre, but those people are on whole 'nother level of self-deceit.

In many ways going full circle BACK to rubber dome, woooooooo  HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA


OP, please don't take what I say as offensive, we've all been there... at least like me, you've realized and can admit that you were let down..

The Topre crowd for example can't even do that, they're so impossibly deluded. 

F... Topre.... and everyone who told me topre was $300 awesome... it was maybe $100 awesome at best...   

poor little troll.

[longface]

OP, please don't take what I say as offensive, we've all been there... at least like me, you've realized and can admit that you were let down..

No, I won't. 

In fact I replaced my working keyboard with it as soon as it came in, and have been using it today, hoping that it will grow back on me a bit.  At least now the plastic does not feel so cheap any more, and it is fun to use the trackpoint from time to time, instead of going for the mouse.

But I still don't like the clanky sound of the keys.

[PointyFox]

OP, please don't take what I say as offensive, we've all been there... at least like me, you've realized and can admit that you were let down..

No, I won't. 

In fact I replaced my working keyboard with it as soon as it came in, and have been using it today, hoping that it will grow back on me a bit.  At least now the plastic does not feel so cheap any more, and it is fun to use the trackpoint from time to time, instead of going for the mouse.

But I still don't like the clanky sound of the keys.

I've got keys that jingle jangle jingle..

[longface]

OP, please don't take what I say as offensive, we've all been there... at least like me, you've realized and can admit that you were let down..

No, I won't. 

In fact I replaced my working keyboard with it as soon as it came in, and have been using it today, hoping that it will grow back on me a bit.  At least now the plastic does not feel so cheap any more, and it is fun to use the trackpoint from time to time, instead of going for the mouse.

But I still don't like the clanky sound of the keys.

I've got keys that jingle jangle jingle..

Jingle jangle jingle?

[fohat.digs]

Clearly you didn't listen to cowboy songs when you were little.

[E TwentyNine]

But I still don't like the clanky sound of the keys.

Are your other M's single piece or two piece caps?   You might try popping a few two piece caps on the M13 and see if they give you a different feel/sound.

[longface]

But I still don't like the clanky sound of the keys.

Are your other M's single piece or two piece caps?   You might try popping a few two piece caps on the M13 and see if they give you a different feel/sound.

No, I don't think I will do that.  I bought the M13 for the all-black-with-red-trackpoint look.  It is placed right beside my all black ThinkPad on docking station.  White/beige keys on this keyboard will look very weird.

Maybe there is something that I can do to improve the sound a bit.

[E TwentyNine]

A few, not permanently.  As a test to see if that's the source of the difference for you.

[rootwyrm]

It's a Maxi-Switch M13, isn't it?

The annoying part about M13's is that the Maxi-Switch built ones actually aren't as good as the Lexmark built ones, not till TPII's.

As far as the "clickiness" of the buttons, that's how they were designed and how they're supposed to work. Same with the stiffness of the TrackPoint itself. Remember that it's a Gen I or Gen II and does not have inertia. And to ensure the TrackPoint works with minimum hassle, it's entirely self-contained and doesn't present as a TrackPoint. So you can't load up the software method of handling inertia - it's not possible.

The cable is fixed for a REASON and is decidedly not cheap. I hate when people call the cable cheap. That's the configuration required and necessary for the number of wires and pins supported. I've never had any problems with the cable that don't also happen with every other M cable including M5's. (Which also were fixed cable.)

The exact issue with the Maxi-Switch built keyboards is frankly, hard to pin down. Bear in mind that Maxi-Switch has distinct tooling and molds from Lexmark/IBM, but I don't know whether they had a complete mold set or a partial. They do feel different from the Lexmark builds, but they also feel different from the Maxi-Switch TrackPoint II's.

I'd need to see more shots of the keyboard to see what's up with it. Given it's a '98, you're talking about very late production from Maxi-Switch, most likely the case issues are from worn out molds and tooling. It's a common complaint and a common problem. Toward the end corners got cut - the '98's feel nothing like the '94's.

[longface]

This is a quick update on the 1998 Maxi Switch made IBM M13.

Well, it is indeed growing on me.  Now the clanky clacky key sound does not bother me any more, and actually it starts to sound good.  Texture of the frame does not look so harsh any more, either.  Compared to it, my 1993 Model M feels almost the same, and my Filco becomes so soft and weak that I can't type on it any more.  I may have to sell it.

I am now using the M13 on my office desk as my main business keyboard. 

[birthdaymonkey]

Forgive my ignorance, but does this board use the same BS switch as the classic model Ms?

[bazemk1979]

Forgive my ignorance, but does this board use the same BS switch as the classic model Ms?

yup exactly the same, even todays Unicomp is exactly the same. The way time has passed by the only thing has changed is little less thinner backplate and less quality control on the plastic housing. But quality wise as in overall, Unicomp will last you a lifetime.

[longface]

Plus one-piece key caps instead of the two-piece key caps on Model Ms.  I don't know what difference that makes in sound or feel. 

I don't quite understand why they had to use 2-piece key caps at the earlier time.  But do 2-piece key caps actually improve feel of key strokes, say less shock/vibration?   

[rootwyrm]

Plus one-piece key caps instead of the two-piece key caps on Model Ms.  I don't know what difference that makes in sound or feel. 

I don't quite understand why they had to use 2-piece key caps at the earlier time.  But do 2-piece key caps actually improve feel of key strokes, say less shock/vibration?   

Interesting fact: the IBM Model M uses a fixed key cap height. All keycaps are the same height. Hopefully you already get where I'm going with this.

Yeah. They used 2-piece because it was easier to do layout customization with them since they could use a common mechanical assembly for any layout including RPQs for customers (like transparent keycaps, airline reservation systems, etcetera.) Those custom top sections were also easier to make and required less material than doing a whole custom setup for a small subset of keys.

The M13, as I explained, uses the 1-piece for a similar reason. All M13's use 1-piece for part consistency, because the GHB cluster requires the cutouts. You can't do that with 2-piece keys. So the M13 got a complete 1-piece set.

[birthdaymonkey]

As a vintage Thinkpad fan, I must say that the M13 has a lot of aesthetic appeal.

I'm sure I can't afford one at the moment, but how much do those go for and where do you find them?

[longface]

I bought mine from a guy in eBay.

[rootwyrm]

As a vintage Thinkpad fan, I must say that the M13 has a lot of aesthetic appeal.

I'm sure I can't afford one at the moment, but how much do those go for and where do you find them?

Depends where all you find them and how lucky you get. Normally, you should expect to spend at least $200 for an M13 in good condition. While many problems are easy to repair (dirt, grime, keycaps, etcetera) almost everything else is time consuming, difficult and expensive. It can also be difficult to tell what you're getting, since the worst problems aren't visually apparent. There's been a raft of TrackPoint II keyboards (they're M13's with the TP II electronics instead of the TP I of the M13) brand new in sealed boxes on eBay lately around the $200 mark though.

[birthdaymonkey]

Depends where all you find them and how lucky you get. Normally, you should expect to spend at least $200 for an M13 in good condition. While many problems are easy to repair (dirt, grime, keycaps, etcetera) almost everything else is time consuming, difficult and expensive. It can also be difficult to tell what you're getting, since the worst problems aren't visually apparent. There's been a raft of TrackPoint II keyboards (they're M13's with the TP II electronics instead of the TP I of the M13) brand new in sealed boxes on eBay lately around the $200 mark though.

I will have to sock that info away for when I have a few extra bucks to spend on keyboards. Thanks!