Author Topic: CMOY Amp discussions  (Read 15762 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline SmallFry

  • ** Moderator Emeritus
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 3887
  • Location: Wisconsin, USA
  • Leaving 6/15; returning 6/22 or so.
CMOY Amp discussions
« on: Sun, 21 April 2013, 11:16:10 »
I'd like to base this discussion on CMOY amps specifically. I realize that the amp's chip is interchangeable and after reading some info on which chip is better than the other(source), it seems a lot like keyboards where one no better than the other unless you're getting the worst there is. I have a pair of Bose OE2s that I quite like, and $40 doesn't seem like to big of a drop to make the step into trying out an amplifier, but no idea where to start with these things other than a kit from JDSLabs.

Offline CPTBadAss

  • Woke up like this
  • Posts: 14383
    • Tactile Zine
Re: CMOY Amp discussions
« Reply #1 on: Sun, 21 April 2013, 11:19:07 »
I know it was posted in the What You Got in the Mail Thread already but I thought I'd combine some of the info into one post here. WFD and Tipo33 chimed in on the opAMP on the breadboard itself and how it could change the profile of the sound.


Shoutouts to my boy Tipo33 for sending me this CMOY to try out. I'm super stoked. I'll be writing a review on this later so please check it out when I put it up :D

/shameless plug :P

Show Image


I know this was on the previous page, but nice CMOY. What opamp did you use? I built a few of these and have tons of leftover opamps I wanted to try out but haven't had to time to test them all. It looks like PCB supports rechargeable circuitry, but you're just using non-rechargable batteries?

You'll have to get Tipo33 to answer all these questions. I honestly don't know. I think Tipo just sent me the battery because that's what he had but it seems to be rechargeable since there is a plugin on the side. What are opamps?


You'll have to get Tipo33 to answer all these questions. I honestly don't know. I think Tipo just sent me the battery because that's what he had but it seems to be rechargeable since there is a plugin on the side. What are opamps?

lol it's that black chip that looks like a spider, the main piece that the CMOY is built around. It's the actual amp, hence the name opAMP. There are many different types of opamps you can plug in there, and each one will change the color of the sound. All the other components more or less just convert or clean signals. It looks like that tiny switch below the opamp is the bass boost.


You'll have to get Tipo33 to answer all these questions. I honestly don't know. I think Tipo just sent me the battery because that's what he had but it seems to be rechargeable since there is a plugin on the side. What are opamps?

lol it's that black chip that looks like a spider, the main piece that the CMOY is built around. It's the actual amp, hence the name opAMP. There are many different types of opamps you can plug in there, and each one will change the color of the sound. All the other components more or less just convert or clean signals. It looks like that tiny switch below the opamp is the bass boost.

The opamp is a Texas Instruments OPA2227,  but it fits into a PGA, so it is swappable.  The little switch is indeed a bass boost.  As far as the battery,  I got one to try it out when I recieved it, and never needed to swap.  I have only had to change the battery once since I got it,  It doesn't really need that much current.

Offline mkawa

  •  No Marketplace Access
  • Posts: 6562
  • (ツ)@@@. crankypants
Re: CMOY Amp discussions
« Reply #2 on: Sun, 21 April 2013, 11:29:25 »
shockingly, headwize is back up, and the original project docs are back up as well: http://headwize.com/?page_id=5

my recommendation on a basic cmoy circuit is to skip straight to dual opa627. even after all these years, i still think that a very simple multiloop 627 followed by a diamond buffer (or ha2002, basically any decent buffer) is the best reasonably priced headphone amplification circuit.

you can go crazy with high voltage electrostats or 1kw class A for your 3W dissipation megaheadphone primes, but there is absolutely nothing as smooth and comfortable to listen to as a pair of flagship sennheiser dynamics driven by a pair of (ok, you can bias them into class A if you want to too :P) opa627s. burr brown didn't just design this opa for super high slew rate or RF bandwidths, etc. etc. they designed this IC by sitting and listening to it, and the result is that it's a tiny slice of awesome in a 20$ LSI package ;)

to all the brilliant friends who have left us, and all the students who climb on their shoulders.

Offline tipo33

  • Posts: 395
  • Location: www.leningrad.spb.ru
  • "Ski"
Re: CMOY Amp discussions
« Reply #3 on: Sun, 21 April 2013, 12:02:03 »
Sound is very objective.  What sounds good to me, might sound terrible to someone else.  That being said, I think dual OPA627's sound awesome for the price.  It is also widely regarded that Class A amps sound better than anything, despite sucking down power like it's free, and making quite a bit of heat in the process.  I personaly like vintage Marantz and Sansui amps,  but they are NOT portable by any stretch of the imagination.  We discussed this at the meetup a bit,  If you think of geekhack as wallethack, don't even think about getting into audio equipment.  This is a long,  yet very rewarding road: http://www.head-fi.org/   - I'm tipo33 on those forums as well.
KM4COL    R.I.P.  SmallFry

Offline mkawa

  •  No Marketplace Access
  • Posts: 6562
  • (ツ)@@@. crankypants
Re: CMOY Amp discussions
« Reply #4 on: Sun, 21 April 2013, 12:04:08 »
class A opas don't suck down nearly as much power as discrete fet-based circuits. it's definitely something you want to run on low noise wall power and not battery though.

to all the brilliant friends who have left us, and all the students who climb on their shoulders.

Offline SmallFry

  • ** Moderator Emeritus
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 3887
  • Location: Wisconsin, USA
  • Leaving 6/15; returning 6/22 or so.
Re: CMOY Amp discussions
« Reply #5 on: Sun, 21 April 2013, 12:04:56 »
Wait... You like vintage Sansui?
« Last Edit: Wed, 24 April 2013, 14:00:16 by SmallFry »

Offline tipo33

  • Posts: 395
  • Location: www.leningrad.spb.ru
  • "Ski"
Re: CMOY Amp discussions
« Reply #6 on: Sun, 21 April 2013, 12:08:30 »
class A opas don't suck down nearly as much power as discrete fet-based circuits. it's definitely something you want to run on low noise wall power and not battery though.
True.

Wait... You like vintage Sansui? Sorry for the potato, but this is mine.

Little to new for my taste :p  I like the 70's  "silver face" stuff.  That being said I have no doubt that is a solid amp.
KM4COL    R.I.P.  SmallFry

Offline CPTBadAss

  • Woke up like this
  • Posts: 14383
    • Tactile Zine
Re: CMOY Amp discussions
« Reply #7 on: Sun, 21 April 2013, 12:10:47 »
Let's rewind a bit. Can someone educate me on Class A amps? I'm a little afraid to head over to Head-Fi. I don't need Wallethack Squared....yet :P

Offline tipo33

  • Posts: 395
  • Location: www.leningrad.spb.ru
  • "Ski"
Re: CMOY Amp discussions
« Reply #8 on: Sun, 21 April 2013, 12:13:30 »
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amplifier#Power_amplifier_classes
Crash course.

This thread needs picks of stuff.  :D

Marantz 2245, Grado SR-60i, Sony MDR-7506, and my HTPC.
« Last Edit: Sun, 21 April 2013, 12:21:22 by tipo33 »
KM4COL    R.I.P.  SmallFry

Offline CPTBadAss

  • Woke up like this
  • Posts: 14383
    • Tactile Zine
Re: CMOY Amp discussions
« Reply #9 on: Sun, 21 April 2013, 12:24:04 »
TipBro, please tell me you can bring that to the Chicago mod meet or maybe we can work something out where I could try some of those goodies out. Think about it :D

Edit: It's the stack o' boxes from the meet!!

Offline mkawa

  •  No Marketplace Access
  • Posts: 6562
  • (ツ)@@@. crankypants
Re: CMOY Amp discussions
« Reply #10 on: Sun, 21 April 2013, 12:25:57 »
class A amplifier topology -- all the current all the time.

a certain amount of distortion is actually caused by thermal variation as the transistors in an amplifier circuit do their thing. biasing a transistorized circuit into "class A" means configuring it to draw a maximal amount of current whenever it is connected to its voltage source. whenever the current isn't being used to amplify a signal/drive a mechanical actuator (eg, a speaker driver), the current is dissipated as heat, and hence there is a minimal amount of thermal variance over time.

ps, one thing about the opa627, other than that it is a bit of a power hog when biased into class A (like, it gets seriously hot, even when not oscillating), is that opa627s are only available as single channel chips. what this means is that each 627 chip contains takes as input one signal and outputs the gain multiplied clone of that signal (modulo distortion). this is actually because one of the other major causes of distortion in opamps is what's known as "crosstalk". remember in E+M when you learned that current is accompanied by perpendicular B and E fields? at VLSI scales, the B and E fields of one on-chip wire have very non-zero effects on the signals of other nearby on-chip wires (ie, all of them). in practice, you measure one specific effect of this, by measuring how much of the input signal of one on-chip channel is present in the signal output on the other on-chip channel (hint: it's very non-zero for dual-channel opas).

hence, the opa627, meant to be an opamp designs and produced for audio afficionados, is not available in a multi-channel design. :)

also, older big box integrated amplifiers like tipo's are typically class AB designs using discrete transistors (usually power mosfets. as this was all that existed before the age of everyman's VLSI) and high quality components (because that was literally all that was available at the time). their headphone ports are the amplifier output brought down to headphone voltages by a resistor network. they are exceptional values, and have a certain characteristic distortion that a lot of people love; it's the same distortion, coincidentally, that's present in most _recordings_ of that time. hence, to each his own.

if you want an inexpensive new integrated amplfiier with these same qualities, my favorite is the severely hidden and underrated onkyo a-5vl. it's cheap, has two beefy class AB channels, has a powered pentiometer that actually sounds good, a nice toroidal coming from mains, and if that weren't enough, they threw in a PCM1796 (one of my favorite dacs) with both toslink and spdif receivers. basically, it's a no-fuss way to power a couple of nicer-but-not-too-nice MTMs (i like the axiom m22 v3 -- ok ok it's a TMM -- but the sound is genuine). all of this together shouldn't cost you more than about 800 bucks, and it will sound fantastic (on-axis, of course) with nearly any source you pair it with at everything up to 20x20' room volumes.
« Last Edit: Sun, 21 April 2013, 12:38:33 by mkawa »

to all the brilliant friends who have left us, and all the students who climb on their shoulders.

Offline tipo33

  • Posts: 395
  • Location: www.leningrad.spb.ru
  • "Ski"
Re: CMOY Amp discussions
« Reply #11 on: Sun, 21 April 2013, 12:28:25 »
I allmost brought it to the meetup, but there wasn't that much intrest in it, so I didn't.  ( it weighs the better part of 50 lbs. )  I want the upcoming meetup to be more Model M and soldering focused, but if you want to come over afterwards, we can definetly sit around and listen/discuss. 

( it is the stack from the meet.  lol )

edit: mkawa is again correct.  Do you have a Head-Fi account by chance?  lol
« Last Edit: Sun, 21 April 2013, 12:32:00 by tipo33 »
KM4COL    R.I.P.  SmallFry

Offline mkawa

  •  No Marketplace Access
  • Posts: 6562
  • (ツ)@@@. crankypants
Re: CMOY Amp discussions
« Reply #12 on: Sun, 21 April 2013, 12:40:05 »
i think i've posted elsewhere that i abandoned head-fi when jude became a money grubbing prick and turned the forum into a playground for snake oil salesmen (it happened pretty quickly, so shortly after the turn of the century i guess).

to all the brilliant friends who have left us, and all the students who climb on their shoulders.

Offline CPTBadAss

  • Woke up like this
  • Posts: 14383
    • Tactile Zine
Re: CMOY Amp discussions
« Reply #13 on: Sun, 21 April 2013, 12:41:52 »
i think i've posted elsewhere that i abandoned head-fi when jude became a money grubbing prick and turned the forum into a playground for snake oil salesmen (it happened pretty quickly, so shortly after the turn of the century i guess).

Where would you recommend getting more info from kawa?

Offline tipo33

  • Posts: 395
  • Location: www.leningrad.spb.ru
  • "Ski"
Re: CMOY Amp discussions
« Reply #14 on: Sun, 21 April 2013, 12:44:39 »
i think i've posted elsewhere that i abandoned head-fi when jude became a money grubbing prick and turned the forum into a playground for snake oil salesmen (it happened pretty quickly, so shortly after the turn of the century i guess).
fair enough,  what kind of amp do you own with OPA627's?
@ CPT there is AudioKarma which seems more for restoration of vintage gear, and a few other places I can't think of right now...
« Last Edit: Sun, 21 April 2013, 12:46:26 by tipo33 »
KM4COL    R.I.P.  SmallFry

Offline tipo33

  • Posts: 395
  • Location: www.leningrad.spb.ru
  • "Ski"
Re: CMOY Amp discussions
« Reply #15 on: Sun, 21 April 2013, 12:57:23 »
also, older big box integrated amplifiers like tipo's are typically class AB designs using discrete transistors (usually power mosfets. as this was all that existed before the age of everyman's VLSI) and high quality components (because that was literally all that was available at the time). their headphone ports are the amplifier output brought down to headphone voltages by a resistor network. they are exceptional values, and have a certain characteristic distortion that a lot of people love; it's the same distortion, coincidentally, that's present in most _recordings_ of that time. hence, to each his own.

if you want an inexpensive new integrated amplfiier with these same qualities, my favorite is the severely hidden and underrated onkyo a-5vl. it's cheap, has two beefy class AB channels, has a powered pentiometer that actually sounds good, a nice toroidal coming from mains, and if that weren't enough, they threw in a PCM1796 (one of my favorite dacs) with both toslink and spdif receivers. basically, it's a no-fuss way to power a couple of nicer-but-not-too-nice MTMs (i like the axiom m22 v3 -- ok ok it's a TMM -- but the sound is genuine). all of this together shouldn't cost you more than about 800 bucks, and it will sound fantastic (on-axis, of course) with nearly any source you pair it with at everything up to 20x20' room volumes.
This is very true,  look out for older amps next time you go to a thrift shop,  lookout for old audio equipment and do a quick google on you smartphone for common issues and a general review.  I got a Pioneer SX-580 for $15 like that :D  A lot of vintage amps have the "sound" mkawa is talking about.  Marantz is regarded as very warm.  Sansuis sound kinda changed over the years.
KM4COL    R.I.P.  SmallFry

Offline mkawa

  •  No Marketplace Access
  • Posts: 6562
  • (ツ)@@@. crankypants
Re: CMOY Amp discussions
« Reply #16 on: Sun, 21 April 2013, 13:05:38 »
i think i've posted elsewhere that i abandoned head-fi when jude became a money grubbing prick and turned the forum into a playground for snake oil salesmen (it happened pretty quickly, so shortly after the turn of the century i guess).
fair enough,  what kind of amp do you own with OPA627's?
@ CPT there is AudioKarma which seems more for restoration of vintage gear, and a few other places I can't think of right now...
at one point i had opa627s in a 2 to one brown dog in my meta42, but i think it has an ad8620 in it now. in theory i have a big bucket of parts that have been run through that and other topos, but at some point headphones became an "office-only" thing, and i settled on unamplified ety HFs for simplicity's sake. i still have my headphones, but now that i'm not an undergrad i just listen to speakers at home. i have an old hand-me-down-and-repaired pair of infinity ref1s powered by a chipamp in the home-office, and the aforementioned onkyo system in the living room.

i have heard good things about the current state of the diyaudio.com forums

ps, before you get wrapped up in all the audiophile bull****, just remember that, with very few exceptions, 99% of the music you listen to has been massaged in protools to sound its best on a pair of apple ibuds out of your iphone, or worse, over FM frequencies. i'm a serial optimizer, and even i don't care about most of that **** anymore, so that should tell you something.
« Last Edit: Sun, 21 April 2013, 13:11:46 by mkawa »

to all the brilliant friends who have left us, and all the students who climb on their shoulders.

Offline CPTBadAss

  • Woke up like this
  • Posts: 14383
    • Tactile Zine
Re: CMOY Amp discussions
« Reply #17 on: Sun, 21 April 2013, 13:16:22 »
I allmost brought it to the meetup, but there wasn't that much intrest in it, so I didn't.  ( it weighs the better part of 50 lbs. )  I want the upcoming meetup to be more Model M and soldering focused, but if you want to come over afterwards, we can definetly sit around and listen/discuss. 

That would be awesome. I'd really enjoy that. I can bring my Grados again. And maybe I'll bring something else. I'm planning on visiting that Headphone shop we talked about.

On another note, Smallfry pitched a question last night to me. I think I know the answer but I wanted more opinions. I just popped in a sound card into my rig and then I wanted to run the CMOY as well. Smallfry asked why I would use both and I wasn't sure how to answer other than it's gonna sound super good.

And yes mkawa, I know that people mix for earbuds and crap now. :(

Offline tipo33

  • Posts: 395
  • Location: www.leningrad.spb.ru
  • "Ski"
Re: CMOY Amp discussions
« Reply #18 on: Sun, 21 April 2013, 13:20:02 »
I allmost brought it to the meetup, but there wasn't that much intrest in it, so I didn't.  ( it weighs the better part of 50 lbs. )  I want the upcoming meetup to be more Model M and soldering focused, but if you want to come over afterwards, we can definetly sit around and listen/discuss. 

That would be awesome. I'd really enjoy that. I can bring my Grados again. And maybe I'll bring something else. I'm planning on visiting that Headphone shop we talked about.

On another note, Smallfry pitched a question last night to me. I think I know the answer but I wanted more opinions. I just popped in a sound card into my rig and then I wanted to run the CMOY as well. Smallfry asked why I would use both and I wasn't sure how to answer other than it's gonna sound super good.

And yes mkawa, I know that people mix for earbuds and crap now. :(
I would use the "line out".  Some sound cards (Asus Xonar essence comes to mind) have a built in amp, in that case I wouldn't run an amp into an amp, it would sound too distorted.
KM4COL    R.I.P.  SmallFry

Offline CPTBadAss

  • Woke up like this
  • Posts: 14383
    • Tactile Zine
Re: CMOY Amp discussions
« Reply #19 on: Sun, 21 April 2013, 13:29:45 »
Line out from the sound card into the amp?

Offline tipo33

  • Posts: 395
  • Location: www.leningrad.spb.ru
  • "Ski"
Re: CMOY Amp discussions
« Reply #20 on: Sun, 21 April 2013, 13:30:45 »
Line out from the sound card into the amp?
Yup.
KM4COL    R.I.P.  SmallFry

Offline mkawa

  •  No Marketplace Access
  • Posts: 6562
  • (ツ)@@@. crankypants
Re: CMOY Amp discussions
« Reply #21 on: Sun, 21 April 2013, 13:47:44 »
unless your cmoy is set up for unity gain (ie, a buffer), your input should be line-level.

to all the brilliant friends who have left us, and all the students who climb on their shoulders.

Offline dorkvader

  • Posts: 6289
  • Location: Boston area
  • all about the "hack" in "geekhack"
Re: CMOY Amp discussions
« Reply #22 on: Sun, 21 April 2013, 15:19:06 »
unless your cmoy is set up for unity gain (ie, a buffer), your input should be line-level.
Given that line outs are usually 1V+ if you have low impedance headphones, a buffer may be all you need. For example, 1V into 30 Ohms of impedance (or Z) flows about 30mA, and therefore about 30 mW

A pair of audio technica ATH-AD900X's (the new version of one of my favorite headphones) has a sensitivity rating of 100 dB/mW, so since I normally listen to music more quietly than that (even accounting for the losses, etc) I will be attenuating the signal anyway.

So my thought is: given a 1V+ line out source, and low impedance / high sensitivity headphones, I should go with a buffer that can deliver the necessary current requirements (there are other reasons as well). Amps are for high impedance / low sensitivity headphones.

This is relevant, as the CMoy can be configured for a gain of 1x in its' common configuration. Of course this depends on the opamp used (if any) etc.

Basically, the CMoy is a pretty simple amplifier circuit that started it all, so I pretty much use CMoy to refer to a wide range of simple circuits.

Offline mkawa

  •  No Marketplace Access
  • Posts: 6562
  • (ツ)@@@. crankypants
Re: CMOY Amp discussions
« Reply #23 on: Sun, 21 April 2013, 17:47:36 »
yes, not all opas are stable with low gain. however, end to end gain is determined by some ratio or another (hell, i have a book around here somewhere), so there's always a topology that allows you to turn an opa into a buffer (although it's inner loop gain might be extremely high for stability). this may effect its output impedance however, which brings me to the line level thing. you can't just look at sensitivity; as all headphones will have similar sensitivities (between 90-100+ dB/mW). however, unlike box speakers, headphones vary significantly in their impedance (and this is AC impedance of course). hence, high impedance headphones like the sennheiser dynamics generally need higher gain and lower impedance headphones (eg, grados) do fine at unity.

to all the brilliant friends who have left us, and all the students who climb on their shoulders.

Offline Photekq

  • wheat flour zone
  • Posts: 4794
  • Location: North Wales, UK
  • sorry if i was ever an ******* to you
Re: CMOY Amp discussions
« Reply #24 on: Sun, 21 April 2013, 17:53:21 »
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amplifier#Power_amplifier_classes
Crash course.

This thread needs picks of stuff.  :D
Show Image

Marantz 2245, Grado SR-60i, Sony MDR-7506, and my HTPC.
Nice Marantz man. I tried to pick one of those up but ended up going with a NAD 3130 instead. I thought the Marantz was beautfiul but it had a few features not working 100% and I thought the NAD would fit better with my general desk theme.


I use my Sennheiser PC 350s with it and it works great.



https://kbdarchive.org/
github
discord: hi mum#5710

Offline tjcaustin

  • King Klaxon
  • * Maker
  • Posts: 3557
  • Location: Dallas-ish
  • King of All Klaxon Sciences and Cable Makery
    • Buy stuff
Re: CMOY Amp discussions
« Reply #25 on: Sun, 21 April 2013, 18:02:01 »
Sound is very objective.  What sounds good to me, might sound terrible to someone else.  That being said, I think dual OPA627's sound awesome for the price.  It is also widely regarded that Class A amps sound better than anything, despite sucking down power like it's free, and making quite a bit of heat in the process.  I personaly like vintage Marantz and Sansui amps,  but they are NOT portable by any stretch of the imagination.  We discussed this at the meetup a bit,  If you think of geekhack as wallethack, don't even think about getting into audio equipment.  This is a long,  yet very rewarding road: http://www.head-fi.org/   - I'm tipo33 on those forums as well.

Subjective is the word you mean.

Offline tipo33

  • Posts: 395
  • Location: www.leningrad.spb.ru
  • "Ski"
Re: CMOY Amp discussions
« Reply #26 on: Sun, 21 April 2013, 18:57:16 »
Nice Marantz man. I tried to pick one of those up but ended up going with a NAD 3130 instead. I thought the Marantz was beautfiul but it had a few features not working 100% and I thought the NAD would fit better with my general desk theme.

Show Image

I use my Sennheiser PC 350s with it and it works great.

Thanks,  I got a pretty good deal on it and it matched the Antec Fusion HTPC.  Living closer to mainland europe you have a better chance of scoring one of the "blackface" vintage amps.  God what I would pay...
Not mine but:

A Pioneer SX-5590
KM4COL    R.I.P.  SmallFry

Offline tipo33

  • Posts: 395
  • Location: www.leningrad.spb.ru
  • "Ski"
Re: CMOY Amp discussions
« Reply #27 on: Sun, 21 April 2013, 19:07:58 »
Subjective is the word you mean.
That is what I mean.
KM4COL    R.I.P.  SmallFry

Offline CPTBadAss

  • Woke up like this
  • Posts: 14383
    • Tactile Zine
Re: CMOY Amp discussions
« Reply #28 on: Tue, 23 April 2013, 07:27:48 »
So I realized that the CMOY doesn't turn on until the Line In and Headphones are plugged in. Can someone educate me as to why this is? Do those 2 lines complete the circuit?

Offline SmallFry

  • ** Moderator Emeritus
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 3887
  • Location: Wisconsin, USA
  • Leaving 6/15; returning 6/22 or so.
Re: Re: CMOY Amp discussions
« Reply #29 on: Tue, 23 April 2013, 09:06:17 »
So I realized that the CMOY doesn't turn on until the Line In and Headphones are plugged in. Can someone educate me as to why this is? Do those 2 lines complete the circuit?
Yeah, sorta. They don't complete the circuit by conducting, but rather by a switch that's activated in the jack I think. Either way, its to save battery.

Offline SpAmRaY

  • NOT a Moderator
  • * Certified Spammer
  • Posts: 14667
  • Location: ¯\(°_o)/¯
  • because reasons.......
Re: CMOY Amp discussions
« Reply #30 on: Tue, 23 April 2013, 10:12:47 »
Just wanted to chime in and say how funny/surreal it is you guys are discussing cmoy's....my first addiction was to headphones and amps...courtesy of head-fi forums....its basically to headphones/amps/sources/cables etc what geekhack is to mechanical keyboards....

I was into it when the penguin mint tin amps were just beginning to be a thing....

But all good things must come to an end and I got out of the craze long ago (its a long story).....now I'm quickly forming a new addictions here.....

tl;dr: i had at one point easily a couple thousand in headphone equipment and it started with the cmoy....

Offline tp4tissue

  • * Destiny Supporter
  • Posts: 13721
  • Location: Official Geekhack Public Defender..
  • OmniExpert of: Rice, Top-Ramen, Ergodox, n Females
Re: CMOY Amp discussions
« Reply #31 on: Wed, 24 April 2013, 04:21:20 »
Just wanted to chime in and say how funny/surreal it is you guys are discussing cmoy's....my first addiction was to headphones and amps...courtesy of head-fi forums....its basically to headphones/amps/sources/cables etc what geekhack is to mechanical keyboards....

I was into it when the penguin mint tin amps were just beginning to be a thing....

But all good things must come to an end and I got out of the craze long ago (its a long story).....now I'm quickly forming a new addictions here.....

tl;dr: i had at one point easily a couple thousand in headphone equipment and it started with the cmoy....


Unlike head-fi, which I find to be PURE---BS...  Keyboards are your friends

Nearly everything about hi-fi is untestable...

Offline tricheboars

  • * Esteemed Elder
  • Posts: 964
  • Location: Denver
  • Keyboards are Important!
Re: CMOY Amp discussions
« Reply #32 on: Fri, 02 May 2014, 13:58:14 »
i just joined this club.  i am really impressed with this little thing. i had no idea headphone amps could make such a difference. 

my kit came from JDS Labs. i really like those guys.
|  Fundamentalist ErgoDox Zealot  |  HHKB Hybrid

Offline mkawa

  •  No Marketplace Access
  • Posts: 6562
  • (ツ)@@@. crankypants
Re: CMOY Amp discussions
« Reply #33 on: Fri, 02 May 2014, 14:40:12 »
cmoys are great first-step soldering projects. it's a textbook negative feedback opamp (opa) circuit, and perfect for high quality audio opamps. in the past, this really meant the ti/burr brown 627/637 series. you can get these binned up to like 30-40$ for each channel. they are very nice audio opas and have a very smooth sound when used in a simple feedback circuit due to their high slew rate, low rise and fall times and lack of ringing, even at high (audio) frequencies. however, it's been many years since the 627 was designed, and the new high end from burr-brown is actually the opa827, which, conveniently, is a lot cheaper.

one tweak you'll want to make to a cmoy using two of these chips is to bias them into class A. http://tangentsoft.net/audio/opamp-bias.html

you'll also want to toss a unity-gain buffer in front of the circuit to insulate the opa from high output impedance and to increase drive current, as explained in the above link. buf634 used to be the preferred buffer, but the LME49610 seems like it's a better chip these days.

but the great thing is that these can be easily hand-wired on brown (paper phenolic) perfboard and tossed into a mint tin for EMI. great circuit. you really don't need more than this and a pack of NIMH batteries with a rail splitter to max out a good pair of headphones. you can go crazy with a dynahi, but unless you have AKG k1000s, that super high power topology is pretty much being wasted. diminishing returns kicks in very quickly.

to all the brilliant friends who have left us, and all the students who climb on their shoulders.

Offline tricheboars

  • * Esteemed Elder
  • Posts: 964
  • Location: Denver
  • Keyboards are Important!
Re: CMOY Amp discussions
« Reply #34 on: Fri, 02 May 2014, 18:17:20 »
cmoys are great first-step soldering projects. it's a textbook negative feedback opamp (opa) circuit, and perfect for high quality audio opamps. in the past, this really meant the ti/burr brown 627/637 series. you can get these binned up to like 30-40$ for each channel. they are very nice audio opas and have a very smooth sound when used in a simple feedback circuit due to their high slew rate, low rise and fall times and lack of ringing, even at high (audio) frequencies. however, it's been many years since the 627 was designed, and the new high end from burr-brown is actually the opa827, which, conveniently, is a lot cheaper.

one tweak you'll want to make to a cmoy using two of these chips is to bias them into class A. http://tangentsoft.net/audio/opamp-bias.html

you'll also want to toss a unity-gain buffer in front of the circuit to insulate the opa from high output impedance and to increase drive current, as explained in the above link. buf634 used to be the preferred buffer, but the LME49610 seems like it's a better chip these days.

but the great thing is that these can be easily hand-wired on brown (paper phenolic) perfboard and tossed into a mint tin for EMI. great circuit. you really don't need more than this and a pack of NIMH batteries with a rail splitter to max out a good pair of headphones. you can go crazy with a dynahi, but unless you have AKG k1000s, that super high power topology is pretty much being wasted. diminishing returns kicks in very quickly.

wow. ok. that is a lot for me to think about and digest. that article is fairly layman too which is nice. i am currently using some v-moda crossfade m-100 headphones which are low impedance so the power would be wasted if i went all crazy with the dynahi.

my next build might be the O2. but word on the street is ""mkawa is not a huge fan of nwavguy".  seriously it is on the street. i dont know. i do know this. i want to keep soldering. i really feel accomplished when i finish a project so i am going to keep going until i become and accidental electrical engineer.
|  Fundamentalist ErgoDox Zealot  |  HHKB Hybrid