Mini vs Micro USB

[SmallFry]

MicroUSB is rated for more in and out cycles than Mini USB, thus is more durable for on the move, unless it's supported like the Rosewill.

[tp4tissue]

MicroUSB is rated for more in and out cycles than Mini USB, thus is more durable for on the move, unless it's supported like the Rosewill.

in and outs, do they rate this by straight insertion?  because real life deplug is slightly torqued upwards or downwards...

[SmallFry]

Now you're just trolling. I thought you were ignorant of the fact that MicroUSB is rated better than MiniUSB, but I realize not.

[tp4tissue]

Now you're just trolling. I thought you were ignorant of the fact that MicroUSB is rated better than MiniUSB, but I realize not.

well you just told me about the ratings, and i asked how these are rated.

[rknize]

It depends on the spec that you are interested in.  Standard and mini USB insertion cycles are in the 1500-5000 range, whereas micro is rated for something like 10,000.  This specific spec is not very important for a keyboard, but the design changes that went into the micro connector to facilitate this are.  For example, the part of the connector that wears out or breaks the most often is now in the cable connector instead of the socket on the device.  This includes side loading and other mechanical stresses beyond just insertion/removal count.

As someone who has worked for a company that makes portable electronic devices, switching from mini to micro was a huge improvement in the overall durability of that important connector. 

[tp4tissue]

It depends on the spec that you are interested in.  Standard and mini USB insertion cycles are in the 1500-5000 range, whereas micro is rated for something like 10,000.  This specific spec is not very important for a keyboard, but the design changes that went into the micro connector to facilitate this are.  For example, the part of the connector that wears out or breaks the most often is now in the cable connector instead of the socket on the device.  This includes side loading and other mechanical stresses beyond just insertion/removal count.

As someone who has worked for a company that makes portable electronic devices, switching from mini to micro was a huge improvement in the overall durability of that important connector. 

was this done through weakening of the "plug/cable" side of the connector?

as in, did they decide, well if something must bend and break, lets make it the replaceable cable, and not the device?

[davkol]

BTW microUSB is a standard. Every new phone has a microUSB port and cables are almost everywhere.

[rknize]

The mini connector contacts are flat on both the socket and connector.  They are pressed together by a tension spring on the top of the socket, whcih also serves to hold the connector in.  When the socket is side-loaded in the wrong way enough times, the connection between the contacts becomes unreliable.  They modeled it after the standard USB connector.  When they scaled it down they also scaled down the thickness of the connector walls.  Thin walls plus the large open cavity makes the cable connector easy to deform (by stepping on it or pulling it out sideways).  This deformed connector will also ruin the socket.

On the micro, they did away with the tension spring.  The socket is completely passive.  The connector on the cable has individually-sprung contacts for reliability and two sprung latches for the mechanical connection of the plug.  They also filled the cavity with more plastic to make it harder to collapse.  It's also thinner, which makes device manufacturers happy.  They also seem to stay attached to the PCB better, thanks to the rather large soldering surface area of the shield.

[tp4tissue]

The mini connector contacts are flat on both the socket and connector.  They are pressed together by a tension spring on the top of the socket, whcih also serves to hold the connector in.  When the socket is side-loaded in the wrong way enough times, the connection between the contacts becomes unreliable.  They modeled it after the standard USB connector.  When they scaled it down they also scaled down the thickness of the connector walls.  Thin walls plus the large open cavity makes the cable connector easy to deform (by stepping on it or pulling it out sideways).  This deformed connector will also ruin the socket.

On the micro, they did away with the tension spring.  The socket is completely passive.  The connector on the cable has individually-sprung contacts for reliability and two sprung latches for the mechanical connection of the plug.  They also filled the cavity with more plastic to make it harder to collapse.  It's also thinner, which makes device manufacturers happy.  They also seem to stay attached to the PCB better, thanks to the rather large soldering surface area of the shield.

how would you rate the new iphone connector, good bad?

[rknize]

I have no idea...I don't have an iPhone. 

[daerid]

The lightning connector is roughly the same. The individual pins are individually sprung as well, but the latches are on the side. It's also reversible, which does away with wear and tear associated from attempting to force a connector in the wrong way.

[Macsmasher]

I have no idea...I don't have an iPhone. 

Take note everybody. A smart man who refused to be one of the sheep led by the nose to the Almighty Apple Alter...

[inteli722]

I have no idea...I don't have an iPhone. 

Take note everybody. A smart man who refused to be one of the sheep led by the nose to the Almighty Apple Alter...

I don't have an iPhone either...come to think of it, I don't have a phone.

I have 1 apple product, and it's not fun. I lost the cable, so it's a paperweight.

[Photekq]

Micro is so much better in my opinion. Mini always comes out when you don't want it to and I've never had that problem with micro.

[daerid]

I have an iPhone, an iPad, and a Mac Mini.

I love Apple products. They're not God's greatest gift to man, but what they do, they do well.

[tp4tissue]

I have an iPhone, an iPad, and a Mac Mini.

I love Apple products. They're not God's greatest gift to man, but what they do, they do well.

well I think the argument people are making now is android does it just as well..

so. .android is like Windows XP, which lets you do whatevers, albeit a bit "rough round the edges"

this counter to Mac os.

[tp4tissue]

What's going to happen in the future is, Mac will make an Iphone that can be rooted and run android...  this is bound to happen.

[inteli722]

What's going to happen in the future is, Mac will make an Iphone that can be rooted and run android...  this is bound to happen.

Yeah, when Apple goes bankrupt and gets bought out by Samsung.

[tp4tissue]

What's going to happen in the future is, Mac will make an Iphone that can be rooted and run android...  this is bound to happen.

Yeah, when Apple goes bankrupt and gets bought out by Samsung.

do you know what 150 billion dollar is?    I don't know much about that myself, but I know it's VERY hard to lose that much money...

Remember this is "CASH" not "debt"

[inteli722]

What's going to happen in the future is, Mac will make an Iphone that can be rooted and run android...  this is bound to happen.

Yeah, when Apple goes bankrupt and gets bought out by Samsung.

do you know what 150 billion dollar is?    I don't know much about that myself, but I know it's VERY hard to lose that much money...

Remember this is "CASH" not "debt"

Yeah. I know. It wasn't serious. I never expected that to happen. The statement was saying that Apple will never make an iPhone that can be rooted and run Android unless they get bought out or suddenly hire Google Executives as Chairmembers.

[tp4tissue]

What's going to happen in the future is, Mac will make an Iphone that can be rooted and run android...  this is bound to happen.

Yeah, when Apple goes bankrupt and gets bought out by Samsung.

do you know what 150 billion dollar is?    I don't know much about that myself, but I know it's VERY hard to lose that much money...

Remember this is "CASH" not "debt"

Yeah. I know. It wasn't serious. I never expected that to happen. The statement was saying that Apple will never make an iPhone that can be rooted and run Android unless they get bought out or suddenly hire Google Executives as Chairmembers.

Idk..

i recall apple saying they'd never hop on the Intel train to preserve the PURE macos... and yet.. here we are.

[inteli722]

What's going to happen in the future is, Mac will make an Iphone that can be rooted and run android...  this is bound to happen.

Yeah, when Apple goes bankrupt and gets bought out by Samsung.

do you know what 150 billion dollar is?    I don't know much about that myself, but I know it's VERY hard to lose that much money...

Remember this is "CASH" not "debt"

Yeah. I know. It wasn't serious. I never expected that to happen. The statement was saying that Apple will never make an iPhone that can be rooted and run Android unless they get bought out or suddenly hire Google Executives as Chairmembers.

Idk..

i recall apple saying they'd never hop on the Intel train to preserve the PURE macos... and yet.. here we are.

Idk...

I recall Apple suing companies whose phones use Android because Android looked too much like iOS

^{_{Also, they sued over a patent of an idea...}} 

[Macsmasher]

I have an iPhone, an iPad, and a Mac Mini.

I love Apple products. They're not God's greatest gift to man, but what they do, they do well.

As I've said in previous posts, Apple's build quality is great. Even the OS is ok. (Although from what I've read, Win7 is more secure.) The problem I have with them is that they DO think they're God's gift to mankind. There's the arrogant, snobbish persona of Jobs, as well as many of the Mac sheeple sycophants out there.

How long did they have a one button mouse? The only reason they didn't do a two button mouse is because Msft thought of it first. Since they didn't think of it first, they refused to acknowledge that it's a great idea.

And then there's the iTunes police. If it's not in iTunes, you can't play it. How about Flac support? How about other formats not 'approved' by the Almighty Apple? All HD movie formats?

Windows has it's problems to be sure. But at least Msft accommodates other competing formats. In fact, in Win7, you can go into 'Programs and Features / Turn Windows features on or off', and uninstall virtually everything but the essential OS kernel, then install the components YOU like.

Msft always gets a bad rap. Sometimes it's deserved. (Let's not bring up Vista or Win8 without a start menu. That's a no brainer.) But many times it isn't.

And regarding security against malware, do a bit of research on it. Win is actually much more secure than Mac. But I'm always open. If you can convince me otherwise, I'll listen.

[daerid]

As I've said in previous posts, Apple's build quality is great. Even the OS is ok. (Although from what I've read, Win7 is more secure.) The problem I have with them is that they DO think they're God's gift to mankind. There's the arrogant, snobbish persona of Jobs, as well as many of the Mac sheeple sycophants out there.

How long did they have a one button mouse? The only reason they didn't do a two button mouse is because Msft thought of it first. Since they didn't think of it first, they refused to acknowledge that it's a great idea.

And then there's the iTunes police. If it's not in iTunes, you can't play it. How about Flac support? How about other formats not 'approved' by the Almighty Apple? All HD movie formats?

Windows has it's problems to be sure. But at least Msft accommodates other competing formats. In fact, in Win7, you can go into 'Programs and Features / Turn Windows features on or off', and uninstall virtually everything but the essential OS kernel, then install the components YOU like.

Msft always gets a bad rap. Sometimes it's deserved. (Let's not bring up Vista or Win8 without a start menu. That's a no brainer.) But many times it isn't.

And regarding security against malware, do a bit of research on it. Win is actually much more secure than Mac. But I'm always open. If you can convince me otherwise, I'll listen.

I won't argue with you about a lot of Apple "fanboyism", there's tons of it. Hell, you make several good points. I just don't care about the ideals or motives of the company. If it's a good product, and serves my needs, I'll use it. I personally have no beef with iTunes, and while you may be right about iTunes in the mobile space, in OSX there's plenty of alternatives to it.

I'm not a typical user though, I actually like having my cheese moved quite regularly, I'd be on a Windows Phone if I wasn't so satisfied with my iPhone (won't touch Android with a 10 foot pole), and I think removing the start menu from Win8 was a great idea.

I don't care enough about the politics of computing though. I love Windows and Mac equally, and use both quite frequently.

Oh and I've never thought that Mac was more secure than Windows, at least on a purely technical level (always knew it was pure marketing hype/bull****).

[daerid]

PS: Anybody know how easy it would be to swap a Mini USB connector out for a Micro USB? I'm thinking particularly of boards like the HHKB/FC660C/QFR/Leopold/etc.. that use a detachable Mini USB.

[Photekq]

PS: Anybody know how easy it would be to swap a Mini USB connector out for a Micro USB? I'm thinking particularly of boards like the HHKB/FC660C/QFR/Leopold/etc.. that use a detachable Mini USB.

Desolder the receptacle, solder on a micro one. All depends on what kind of receptacle the particular board uses.

[rknize]

Since they are surface mount, finding a socket with the same pad footprint might be a challenge.  I've never looked into it, but there might be something that can be made to work.

[damorgue]

I always liked USB type B because they are very easy to hit. I sort of finds its way. I ahve also enver experienced it breaking. It amy be larger, but if there is room, I prefer it over type A or any of the mini or micro versions.

[daerid]

In my experience, Type B tends to go loose much faster than the other form factors.

[Findecanor]

The only reason they didn't do a two button mouse is because Msft thought of it first.

I don't know why I am commenting on this... but anyway. Apple engineers did sure know of mice with more than one button, but they chose to have only one.

[tp4tissue]

As I've said in previous posts, Apple's build quality is great. Even the OS is ok. (Although from what I've read, Win7 is more secure.) The problem I have with them is that they DO think they're God's gift to mankind. There's the arrogant, snobbish persona of Jobs, as well as many of the Mac sheeple sycophants out there.

How long did they have a one button mouse? The only reason they didn't do a two button mouse is because Msft thought of it first. Since they didn't think of it first, they refused to acknowledge that it's a great idea.

And then there's the iTunes police. If it's not in iTunes, you can't play it. How about Flac support? How about other formats not 'approved' by the Almighty Apple? All HD movie formats?

Windows has it's problems to be sure. But at least Msft accommodates other competing formats. In fact, in Win7, you can go into 'Programs and Features / Turn Windows features on or off', and uninstall virtually everything but the essential OS kernel, then install the components YOU like.

Msft always gets a bad rap. Sometimes it's deserved. (Let's not bring up Vista or Win8 without a start menu. That's a no brainer.) But many times it isn't.

And regarding security against malware, do a bit of research on it. Win is actually much more secure than Mac. But I'm always open. If you can convince me otherwise, I'll listen.

I won't argue with you about a lot of Apple "fanboyism", there's tons of it. Hell, you make several good points. I just don't care about the ideals or motives of the company. If it's a good product, and serves my needs, I'll use it. I personally have no beef with iTunes, and while you may be right about iTunes in the mobile space, in OSX there's plenty of alternatives to it.

I'm not a typical user though, I actually like having my cheese moved quite regularly, I'd be on a Windows Phone if I wasn't so satisfied with my iPhone (won't touch Android with a 10 foot pole), and I think removing the start menu from Win8 was a great idea.

I don't care enough about the politics of computing though. I love Windows and Mac equally, and use both quite frequently.

Oh and I've never thought that Mac was more secure than Windows, at least on a purely technical level (always knew it was pure marketing hype/bull****).

Fanboism is usually limited to poor people and kids, who have no income..

To them trinkets they acquire is their only means of elevation.

I mean.. really.. the iphone makes you a better person.. why do you hate android.. it makes to sense to put so much of oneself into the brand..

It's one thing to own apple stock, then rave about apple, but most people who rave about apple have the phone and no stock.

[Macsmasher]

The only reason they didn't do a two button mouse is because Msft thought of it first.

I don't know why I am commenting on this... but anyway. Apple engineers did sure know of mice with more than one button, but they chose to have only one.

Of course they chose one button. My point was their reason for choosing one button was because Microsoft thought of it first, not because it improved input device usability on their platform. Nobody would argue that a one button mouse is more flexible / usable.

To give Apple credit where credit is due, I love the magnetic charger connection on their laptops. That was a great idea.

[daerid]

I think they chose one button because at the time Mac OS didn't have any concept of "context menu" (neither did Windows before 95; the 2nd mouse button is completely useless in Win 3.1).

There wasn't any use for a 2nd mouse button, so they left it out. Windows definitely did introduce the concept of "right-clicking", and OSX eventually adopted it (because it's a hell of a good idea), but since they had a whole legacy of hardware and software using a single mouse button, they had to kind of bootstrap the concept onto existing hardware designs; hence the whole Ctrl+Click mumbo jumbo.

Finally with the Mighty Mouse they released an actual Apple mouse with a built-in right-click capability.

So I don't think it's entirely accurate to say that Apple chose one button because Windows already did something different. By the time Windows released any graphical interface, Apple had already chosen a one-button mouse experience, and had tons of users accustomed to it and software built around it.

To be completely honest, I'm almost positive that Windows chose two buttons with Windows 95 because of the inherent frustrations people were having with MacOS and Windows 3.1 only recognizing one button.

[TotalChaos]

Windows definitely did introduce the concept of "right-clicking" [in Windows 95], and OSX eventually adopted it (because it's a hell of a good idea),

Amigas were using 2-button mice and used right-clicking extensively since 1985, 10 years before M$.

[daerid]

My bad. I guess technically you could say they introduced the concept into the mainstream and made it the standard.