Is there "common" rubber dome technology that is good?

[fateswarm]

I went to a shop to get a hub and passed by their cheap keyboard section. All from 10 euros to about 40. Trying a few they felt unstable and unreliable in feedback (as it's expected) but I noticed one or two of them were approaching that 'thong' sound and decisive feedback that I hear Topre switches have.

And I wonder, are there some 'common' rubber dome keyboards that are 'acceptable' and if that's the case how can one identify a good one? Is it a matter of 'batch'? If I get the same keyboard from elsewhere will the rubber just 'happen' to be weaker?

I wonder if it's only a matter of 'thick, good' rubber.

Unless.. some rubber dome keyboards are nowadays good copies of Topre technology and we have to investigate the market for which they are.

[tp4tissue]

I personally think "opinion",  that thin rubber dome, as far as "feel" is better than the stuff they use in Topre. The $5 keyboards, very light key caps, very little friction, and travel is quite smooth..

The only downside to the cheaper boards is that they don't respond as well, and require bottoming out.


Outside of the actual travel distance, I don't feel like the Topre iteration is "technically// engineered" better in any way. It's overly complicated for what can be achieved with less material.

[kaiserreich]

Here is an old discussion on Topre vs Keytronic.
Keytronic is the "common" rubber dome

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=9997.0

[davkol]

Keyboards with discrete pieces of rubber dome and sliders separated from keycaps aren't made anymore (possibly with few exceptions, such as the "plunger knucker" Thermaltake gaming gimmick). I think this is one of the crucial requirements for a RD keyboard to last more than few months/years.

I doubt most companies that produce cheap keyboards waste much time with engineering nowadays.

[mich]

Keyboards with discrete pieces of rubber dome and sliders separated from keycaps aren't made anymore (possibly with few exceptions, such as the "plunger knucker" Thermaltake gaming gimmick). I think this is one of the crucial requirements for a RD keyboard to last more than few months/years.

How exactly separating sliders from keycaps and domes one from another is supposed to increase longevity? Plastic doesn't magically become more durable after cutting it in small pieces.

IMO this "discrete domes are better" thing is a B$ invented by Topre fans to justify spending $xxx on rubber domes

[davkol]

First, most old (and some not even old, for example almost new MS Ergo 4k) rubber domes I've used over years have had incorrectly positioned the rubber dome sheet (and it was,always almost impossible to fix it), hence some keys required some extra force to actuate... or didn't register at all.

Second, I clean my keyboards every now and then. Nothing excessive, only wash keycaps and get rid of cat hairs stuck on the plate once or twice a year. My experience is that almost all RD keyboards with sliders and keycaps in one piece become more mushy and a bit sticky after that.

[tp4tissue]

First, most old (and some not even old, for example almost new MS Ergo 4k) rubber domes I've used over years have had incorrectly positioned the rubber dome sheet (and it was,always almost impossible to fix it), hence some keys required some extra force to actuate... or didn't register at all.

Second, I clean my keyboards every now and then. Nothing excessive, only wash keycaps and get rid of cat hairs stuck on the plate once or twice a year. My experience is that almost all RD keyboards with sliders and keycaps in one piece become more mushy and a bit sticky after that.

LOL, this just sounds like you suck at washing Davkol,

are you using detergent? and Double rinse?

[davkol]

On the keyboard? Yes, of course.

Ever heard of pollen or dust?

[axtran]

For the longest time, I didn't even know Mechanical Keyboards existed. I used a Keytronic "Designer" that I purchased at directron.com one day and was impressed at the "build quality" when compared to your common off-the-shelf Logitech board or so. What I did notice, was that at the time I was an avid gamer. None of my rubber dome keyboards were able to handle the finger-smashing that accompanied RTS gaming

I used to just accept the fact that I always had to replace keyboards after normal use... until I started with an IBM Model M. Now I see the value in a quality board, and love switching mechanical keyboards. It gives a fun element to me! (I'm a touch typist who works in IT)

[fateswarm]

First, most old (and some not even old, for example almost new MS Ergo 4k) rubber domes I've used over years have had incorrectly positioned the rubber dome sheet (and it was,always almost impossible to fix it), hence some keys required some extra force to actuate... or didn't register at all.

That sounds like a common result of leaving a keyboard at the Sun in a hot day around the hottest places on earth for a couple of hours. Those plastics don't seem that durable and I bet they easily shrink.

If a discreet switch had the same kind of plastic it wouldn't dislocate.

Plus they can be replaced, at least with soldering.

[laffindude]

PCB based rubber domes doesn't feel terrible, as well as those that uses metal backplate with membrane. Properly fitting plunger system helps with the feel too.

[SmallFry]

Topre.
Wait...
In all seriousness, most Dell Quietkeys, Keytronics etc feel fairly nice.

[Schattendolch]

the qsen rubber dome keyboards that korean pro gamers use feel nice, don't they?

i'm curious about them, but not enough to buy a board lol

[esoomenona]

SF, are yoy still excretigng on threads? Have you ever even tried Topre?

[Mandolin]

Common, I don't know about what's common in your location, but old rubber domes tend to be better constructed than actual ones. I've got two IBM's that are similar to dell quietkeys, cheap, and pretty nice, one even with non standard pbt dye subs.
THere's also the fujitsu peerless, but I don't like it that much.

[Badwrench]

My DD at work is a Quiet touch, and it is not too bad at all.  Has a nice positive engagement of the key (as you bottom out), but it is very smooth.  The best rubber dome that I have owned was my Microsoft X4.  It had a very nice feeling - very similar to mx reds.  Not great for typing as the stoke was short and the resistance was low - resulted in many mis hits.  I am not a very good typist 50 -70 wpm, but am decent at touch.  I still prefer Blues, but the X4 was pretty nice for a rubber dome. 

[kaiserreich]

Keytronic 6100 series feels like a very tactile/less smooth topre.

[Mandolin]

My DD at work is a Quiet touch, and it is not too bad at all.  Has a nice positive engagement of the key (as you bottom out), but it is very smooth.  The best rubber dome that I have owned was my Microsoft X4.  It had a very nice feeling - very similar to mx reds.  Not great for typing as the stoke was short and the resistance was low - resulted in many mis hits.  I am not a very good typist 50 -70 wpm, but am decent at touch.  I still prefer Blues, but the X4 was pretty nice for a rubber dome.

Yup, "linear" as some might say. In my house I use a 94 model M as a desktop permanent, and at night I use quiet keys to not disturbe my folks! xD, marketing dept made its point to the real deal.

I've got a couple of mechanical acer switch boards, but they suck in comparison to well made rubber domes as the one I said. I'll post pictures of another Epson rubberdome with pbt caps when I finish cleaning it, as well as the IBM I refered to you.

Look for quietkeys.

[SmallFry]

SF, are yoy still excretigng on threads? Have you ever even tried Topre?

Yes I have. Also, I posted relevant info so... Bugger off.

[esoomenona]

NO SF YOU BUGGER OFF!!!

My god, I don't know what it is about those two words together, but it just pisses me off to no extent.

[Mandolin]

Favorite rubber dome, an IBM made by lexmark in '96 that comes with thick PBT dye sub keycaps. Internals can be seen in the attachments. The body is very cherry g80-3000 like.

I'm gonna paint the body soon with anodized style paint.

[TheSoulhunter]

Topre.
Wait...

Wow, after reading the title I was about to reply just that!
Then I realized I'm too late... *Swings fist at SmallFry*

[SpAmRaY]

I've had a few older dell's and one gateway in particular that were very nice for rubber domes.

I wish I still had the gateway, the keys were lower profile, textured and cupped, and it was super quiet, this was back in the late 90', when gateway still used the cow print logo.

[laffindude]

the qsen rubber dome keyboards that korean pro gamers use feel nice, don't they?

i'm curious about them, but not enough to buy a board lol

No. They're really really bad. Worst than MS throw aways.

[nubbinator]

the qsen rubber dome keyboards that korean pro gamers use feel nice, don't they?

i'm curious about them, but not enough to buy a board lol

No. They're really really bad. Worst than MS throw aways.

Yup, they only sold well because they were ubiquitous and dirt cheap.  Of course, you then had a ton of American gamers thinking that they were awesome keyboards because of all the pros using them.

The only rubber domes I've tried and like are some scissor switches like on my Lenovo T500.  Love that keyboard as far as rubber domes go.  My MS Siderwinder X4 was decent, but not amazing.   More crisp than many other rubber domes, but still lacking.  The worst I've ever used are those stupid chiclet style keyboards like Apple uses.