Bomb assassinate hack anarchy topple the government jihad

[noisyturtle]

Hello NSA. Suck my ****. 

[mauri]

expect g-men thru your window any minute now

[Tarzan]

Semtex, boiling down peroxide to make it stronger, access codes, drone schematics, sheep-shagging NSA agents.

I think that should do the trick. 

[Glod]

hahaha

i love this

conspiracy election rigged terror plot hack kill destroy drone barack obama ron paul snowden china topre snickers bar hungry taxes irs hello there

pushing limits?

[tp4tissue]

See this is the thing I'm wondering....  Is my information really that valuable... so they know I watch porn... buy stuff on amazon... and love keyboards...  What good is most personal information..

If we're asking the government to be transparent... why can't we ourselves do the same...

It really goes both ways...

They can have as much of my privacy as they like, just put more funding in schools, and don't pay toooo many hookers on tax dollars..

I'm really not fret-n' this.

[Glod]

Sacrificing privacy for government transparency? are you kidding me dude?

Even if you did want to pull that ****, the fourth amendment is pretty clear and we've been letting our government stomp on it for years.

Even though i consider myself independent center-left, i'm going to roll a libertarian for this one. This **** needs to stop.

[noisyturtle]

In the back of our minds, I think most of us assumed stuff like this was going on in a post 9/11 America, but having it come to light in this manner is just appalling. In a federal court, the director of the NSA flat out states that nothing of this sort is going on, lo and behold, a few weeks later Mr. Binney has had enough and exposes the ugly truth. It's like eating veal, in the back of your mind you know where it came from, but you don't want the restaurant to provide you with a picture while you eat. And the argument of sacrificing freedoms for security obviously doesn't work. If anything ought to be transparent to gain sympathy, we should be told about all these terrorist plots that have been foiled thanks to the invasive measures, or would that be too scary for the average soccer mommy? Then I ask, what the **** is the ****ing point of having on file that I happen to be into Siamese midget donkey porn?

[tp4tissue]

Sacrificing privacy for government transparency? are you kidding me dude?

Even if you did want to pull that ****, the fourth amendment is pretty clear and we've been letting our government stomp on it for years.

Even though i consider myself independent center-left, i'm going to roll a libertarian for this one. This **** needs to stop.

I'm not suggesting we are trading privacy for security..  I'm just saying I don't think the average person actually needs privacy as long as it's not an active camera flash in their eye.

What I'm asking you guys is,, what do you have that's so important that HAS TO BE private....   I honestly can't think of any for myself or for the people in my immediate vicinity...

The government isn't using this information to tell you, that you can't spank to the siamese midge dk pr0n...

They filter it for something that MAY be dangerous such as explosives and terrorism...  There isn't anything sinister here...

[tp4tissue]

You ask the government,, what are you hiding

The government asks you,, well, what are you hiding..

Both party show hands,, the only person who doesn't is the terrorist.. problem solved...

[tp4tissue]

for example..

I call up nj senator, hey senator, what did you do with our tax dollars. 

Senator: Oh I spent some of it on hookers..

Me: well I made exactly this much money this year, do you think you could allocate some more for our school system..

Senator:  I guess so..

[noisyturtle]

And as a nice little poison cherry on top of it all is the fact that Google, a company that in the past has shown great pride in letting people know it's servers are secure and that they erase personal data on a regular basis and do not share it with data miners has turned out to be be a prime partner with the American government in doing exactly that.

[WRXChris]

Sacrificing privacy for government transparency? are you kidding me dude?

Even if you did want to pull that ****, the fourth amendment is pretty clear and we've been letting our government stomp on it for years.

Even though i consider myself independent center-left, i'm going to roll a libertarian for this one. This **** needs to stop.

I'm not suggesting we are trading privacy for security..  I'm just saying I don't think the average person actually needs privacy as long as it's not an active camera flash in their eye.

What I'm asking you guys is,, what do you have that's so important that HAS TO BE private....   I honestly can't think of any for myself or for the people in my immediate vicinity...

The government isn't using this information to tell you, that you can't spank to the siamese midge dk pr0n...

They filter it for something that MAY be dangerous such as explosives and terrorism...  There isn't anything sinister here...

You give people in positions of power too much credit!  Check out 161719's response to a similar argument:
http://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/comments/1fv4r6/i_believe_the_government_should_be_allowed_to/caeb3pl?context=3

[Glod]

You ask the government,, what are you hiding

The government asks you,, well, what are you hiding..

Both party show hands,, the only person who doesn't is the terrorist.. problem solved...

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

no sir, the government doesn't have the right to ask me what im hiding without probable cause. its the ****ing united states constitution.

[davkol]

See this is the thing I'm wondering....  Is my information really that valuable... so they know I watch porn... buy stuff on amazon... and love keyboards...  What good is most personal information..

If we're asking the government to be transparent... why can't we ourselves do the same...

It really goes both ways...

They can have as much of my privacy as they like, just put more funding in schools, and don't pay toooo many hookers on tax dollars..

I'm really not fret-n' this.

Nazi Germany used data from a census to liquidate Jews. Now, you're probably thinking USA isn't 1930's Germany. Sure. What about McCarthyism? What about fascist projects like INDECT here in Europe?

Government desperately need artificial enemies to *control* you.

[CommunistWitchDr]

Some of the authors of the constitution thought it was cool to own black people. The document itself even said they were worth 3/5 of a person (for certain purposes anyway) and had a time frame in which slave trade couldn't be touched by American laws outlined. These aren't things a perfect infallible document should say.

I believe in personal privacy, more so than most people I'm sure, but would rather see the moral arguments than references to a document.

[metafour]

Hey! How’s it going? I’m all right.

My job is so ****ty I wish I could overthrow my boss. It’s like this oppressive regime where only true believers in his management techniques will stay around. I work marathon-length hours and he’s made all these changes that have made it the worst architecture firm to work at in Manhattan. Like he moved the office to the Financial District and fired my assistant. She was the only one who knew where the blueprints were! I need access to those blueprints to complete my job! F my life, right? And he keeps trying to start all these new initiatives to boost revenue, but seriously we just need to stick to what we do best. There’s only one true profit center. I seriously feel ready to go on strike at any second.

I just read this article about how these free radical particles can cause the downfall of good health and accelerate aging. These could actually cause death to millions of Americans. If these particles are flying around undetected everywhere, does that mean we’re all radicalized?

Have you seen the second season of Breaking Bad? I just finished it. I couldn’t believe that episode where they poison the guy with ricin! That was the bomb! I won’t say any more because I don’t want to reveal the earth-shattering events to come.

Oh! So I’ve been planning a big trip for the summer. I’m thinking of visiting all of the most famous suspension bridges in the United States. So probably like the Golden Gate Bridge, The Brooklyn Bridge, and the Verrazano Narrows Bridge. I’m gonna bring my younger brother and I know he’ll want to go to bars, so I’m thinking of getting him a fake drivers license, but I hope that doesn’t blow up in my face.

Okay, I gotta run! I’m late for flight school. I missed the last class where we learn how to land, so I really can’t miss another one. Talk to you later!

via http://www.trollthensa.com

[Glod]

Some of the authors of the constitution thought it was cool to own black people. The document itself even said they were worth 3/5 of a person (for certain purposes anyway) and had a time frame in which slave trade couldn't be touched by American laws outlined. These aren't things a perfect infallible document should say.

I believe in personal privacy, more so than most people I'm sure, but would rather see the moral arguments than references to a document.

That document is completely relevant in this case. I think you missed what i am meaning.

Our elected officials, the ones approving this big brother ****, are sworn to it

this is the oath they are breaking

I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter: So help me God.

[iri]

freedom! 'murica!

[tp4tissue]

You ask the government,, what are you hiding

The government asks you,, well, what are you hiding..

Both party show hands,, the only person who doesn't is the terrorist.. problem solved...

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

no sir, the government doesn't have the right to ask me what im hiding without probable cause. its the ****ing united states constitution.

The constitution, the very idea of a constitution is antiquated in our highly connected world.

To think that a document written so long ago can be a blanketing guide for our advanced society is lunacy in itself.


I like many of the ideas on there, but they are designed for a much different world.


It is very easy to abuse someone as a government in yester-years as they can kill you and no one would know.

While that is mostly still true today, it is significantly hard due to our connected nature.


Even if we lose say 1000 people a year due to secret government assassinations.. w/e... big brother isn't something that's bound to happen.. you can clearly see... It has already happened... and there's nothing voting or rioting can do to stop it....

It's easy to sit here and say,, oh no, they' have no right to seize my information...
 
But then ask yourself... when you charge the government with the job of security,   how many ways can they possibly find terrorists without violating some antiquated law...

Big brother is in essence a cheaper more efficient routine than to externally build a giant wall at inbound gates of america..


My primary point is, I got nothing to hide, you want to search me fine...


And if they chose to abuse this,, and wrongly arrest or kill a few thousand people... that's also fine... overpopulation is well provisioned for such.

should America turn into nazi germany.. that won't happen.. because it is too hard to hide that kind of thing when there's such a thing as CELL PHONES

[noisyturtle]

It's so weird. I posted this today and my computer has been infernally slow and acting up since this afternoon. Not even kidding, probably just a coincidence though.

[y0fate]

3... 2... 1... aaannndd... v&.

On topic: The government has ALWAYS been "spying" on us. It is nothing new, really. People are now making a seemingly big deal on something that has been going on for years. If people really want privacy, there are still ways of staying anonymous online (Getting a VPN, Proxy, use SSL, only browse using TOR, etc). It hasn't affected us in the past, so why let it affect us now?

[sth]

for example..

I call up nj senator, hey senator, what did you do with our tax dollars. 

Senator: Oh I spent some of it on hookers..

Me: well I made exactly this much money this year, do you think you could allocate some more for our school system..

Senator:  I guess so..

hahahaha that would rule

[mauri]

3... 2... 1... aaannndd... v&.

On topic: The government has ALWAYS been "spying" on us. It is nothing new, really. People are now making a seemingly big deal on something that has been going on for years. If people really want privacy, there are still ways of staying anonymous online (Getting a VPN, Proxy, use SSL, only browse using TOR, etc). It hasn't affected us in the past, so why let it affect us now?

Not yet, just wait until america becomes truly totalitarian nation that's certainly where the world is heading

[CommunistWitchDr]

The infastructure that allows for spying should be taken and destroyed by the people. The internet and the phone system is perfectly capable of running without any sort of central logging software. Those responsible can not be trusted to do it.

The cracks in their nice mural on their concrete wall are starting to grow large enough that everyone can finally see them. This is only the beginning and I only hope enough people can see before they pretty the wall back up to make a difference.

[Tarzan]

3... 2... 1... aaannndd... v&.

On topic: The government has ALWAYS been "spying" on us. It is nothing new, really. People are now making a seemingly big deal on something that has been going on for years. If people really want privacy, there are still ways of staying anonymous online (Getting a VPN, Proxy, use SSL, only browse using TOR, etc). It hasn't affected us in the past, so why let it affect us now?

Lots of reasons, but basically they all boil down to; it's none of their business.

If the government thinks there is a risk of a terrorist attack, then and only then they should seek a warrant for anyone's private data.  Accumulating a huge database of all sorts of personal information "just in case?"  Bull-crap.  They're setting up "information sharing centers" around the country to provide information to all sorts of law enforcement agencies.  Do you know what's being shared?  I sure don't.

For example.  Some lister here gets busted for letting his borther-in-law use his house as a shipping address for dope.  Now law enforcement has the capability to trawl EVERY SINGLE email, phone call, IM, or text to find people who might have bought drugs from that address.

"Hey man, got any of those uber-smooooth POM Cherry caps?  You do, eh?  How much?  75 cents each?!  Hells ya!  I'll take 65 of the blank black ones, dude!  PM incoming!"

And there you go.  Since you bought some "caps," now you're on a list somewhere. 

In my case, I just arranged a proxy buy for some ex-Wehrmacht keyboards.  Somewhere there are probably algorithms linking HEROS to a description of a mobile missile system, and I just got flagged for ordering these, because I live in the flight path for a major airport.  Cross-linking to emails in German, because I had them shipped from a proxy in Berlin, and I'm probably going to end up on the TSA No-Fly List before long.

It's not whether you're paranoid or not.  It's whether you're paranoid enough.

[Tarzan]

Hey! How’s it going? I’m all right.

My job is so ****ty I wish I could overthrow my boss. It’s like this oppressive regime where only true believers in his management techniques will stay around. I work marathon-length hours and he’s made all these changes that have made it the worst architecture firm to work at in Manhattan. Like he moved the office to the Financial District and fired my assistant. She was the only one who knew where the blueprints were! I need access to those blueprints to complete my job! F my life, right? And he keeps trying to start all these new initiatives to boost revenue, but seriously we just need to stick to what we do best. There’s only one true profit center. I seriously feel ready to go on strike at any second.

I just read this article about how these free radical particles can cause the downfall of good health and accelerate aging. These could actually cause death to millions of Americans. If these particles are flying around undetected everywhere, does that mean we’re all radicalized?

Have you seen the second season of Breaking Bad? I just finished it. I couldn’t believe that episode where they poison the guy with ricin! That was the bomb! I won’t say any more because I don’t want to reveal the earth-shattering events to come.

Oh! So I’ve been planning a big trip for the summer. I’m thinking of visiting all of the most famous suspension bridges in the United States. So probably like the Golden Gate Bridge, The Brooklyn Bridge, and the Verrazano Narrows Bridge. I’m gonna bring my younger brother and I know he’ll want to go to bars, so I’m thinking of getting him a fake drivers license, but I hope that doesn’t blow up in my face.

Okay, I gotta run! I’m late for flight school. I missed the last class where we learn how to land, so I really can’t miss another one. Talk to you later!

via http://www.trollthensa.com

Nice one!  Thanks for the link!

 

[y0fate]

3... 2... 1... aaannndd... v&.

On topic: The government has ALWAYS been "spying" on us. It is nothing new, really. People are now making a seemingly big deal on something that has been going on for years. If people really want privacy, there are still ways of staying anonymous online (Getting a VPN, Proxy, use SSL, only browse using TOR, etc). It hasn't affected us in the past, so why let it affect us now?

Lots of reasons, but basically they all boil down to; it's none of their business.

If the government thinks there is a risk of a terrorist attack, then and only then they should seek a warrant for anyone's private data.  Accumulating a huge database of all sorts of personal information "just in case?"  Bull-crap.  They're setting up "information sharing centers" around the country to provide information to all sorts of law enforcement agencies.  Do you know what's being shared?  I sure don't.

For example.  Some lister here gets busted for letting his borther-in-law use his house as a shipping address for dope.  Now law enforcement has the capability to trawl EVERY SINGLE email, phone call, IM, or text to find people who might have bought drugs from that address.

"Hey man, got any of those uber-smooooth POM Cherry caps?  You do, eh?  How much?  75 cents each?!  Hells ya!  I'll take 65 of the blank black ones, dude!  PM incoming!"

And there you go.  Since you bought some "caps," now you're on a list somewhere. 

In my case, I just arranged a proxy buy for some ex-Wehrmacht keyboards.  Somewhere there are probably algorithms linking HEROS to a description of a mobile missile system, and I just got flagged for ordering these, because I live in the flight path for a major airport.  Cross-linking to emails in German, because I had them shipped from a proxy in Berlin, and I'm probably going to end up on the TSA No-Fly List before long.

It's not whether you're paranoid or not.  It's whether you're paranoid enough.

What I got out of that is that anyone who is Schizophrenic should probably isolate themselves from society.

[tp4tissue]

3... 2... 1... aaannndd... v&.

On topic: The government has ALWAYS been "spying" on us. It is nothing new, really. People are now making a seemingly big deal on something that has been going on for years. If people really want privacy, there are still ways of staying anonymous online (Getting a VPN, Proxy, use SSL, only browse using TOR, etc). It hasn't affected us in the past, so why let it affect us now?

Lots of reasons, but basically they all boil down to; it's none of their business.

If the government thinks there is a risk of a terrorist attack, then and only then they should seek a warrant for anyone's private data.  Accumulating a huge database of all sorts of personal information "just in case?"  Bull-crap.  They're setting up "information sharing centers" around the country to provide information to all sorts of law enforcement agencies.  Do you know what's being shared?  I sure don't.

For example.  Some lister here gets busted for letting his borther-in-law use his house as a shipping address for dope.  Now law enforcement has the capability to trawl EVERY SINGLE email, phone call, IM, or text to find people who might have bought drugs from that address.

"Hey man, got any of those uber-smooooth POM Cherry caps?  You do, eh?  How much?  75 cents each?!  Hells ya!  I'll take 65 of the blank black ones, dude!  PM incoming!"

And there you go.  Since you bought some "caps," now you're on a list somewhere. 

In my case, I just arranged a proxy buy for some ex-Wehrmacht keyboards.  Somewhere there are probably algorithms linking HEROS to a description of a mobile missile system, and I just got flagged for ordering these, because I live in the flight path for a major airport.  Cross-linking to emails in German, because I had them shipped from a proxy in Berlin, and I'm probably going to end up on the TSA No-Fly List before long.

It's not whether you're paranoid or not.  It's whether you're paranoid enough.

What I got out of that is that anyone who is Schizophrenic should probably isolate themselves from society.

are you sure schizophrenic is the word you're looking for?

[fruktstund]

hahaha

i love this

conspiracy election rigged terror plot hack kill destroy drone barack obama ron paul snowden china topre snickers bar hungry taxes irs hello there

pushing limits?

oh, don't you mention topre, that's really pushing the limits

You'll be raided in minutes if you mention that word.

[y0fate]

3... 2... 1... aaannndd... v&.

On topic: The government has ALWAYS been "spying" on us. It is nothing new, really. People are now making a seemingly big deal on something that has been going on for years. If people really want privacy, there are still ways of staying anonymous online (Getting a VPN, Proxy, use SSL, only browse using TOR, etc). It hasn't affected us in the past, so why let it affect us now?

Lots of reasons, but basically they all boil down to; it's none of their business.

If the government thinks there is a risk of a terrorist attack, then and only then they should seek a warrant for anyone's private data.  Accumulating a huge database of all sorts of personal information "just in case?"  Bull-crap.  They're setting up "information sharing centers" around the country to provide information to all sorts of law enforcement agencies.  Do you know what's being shared?  I sure don't.

For example.  Some lister here gets busted for letting his borther-in-law use his house as a shipping address for dope.  Now law enforcement has the capability to trawl EVERY SINGLE email, phone call, IM, or text to find people who might have bought drugs from that address.

"Hey man, got any of those uber-smooooth POM Cherry caps?  You do, eh?  How much?  75 cents each?!  Hells ya!  I'll take 65 of the blank black ones, dude!  PM incoming!"

And there you go.  Since you bought some "caps," now you're on a list somewhere. 

In my case, I just arranged a proxy buy for some ex-Wehrmacht keyboards.  Somewhere there are probably algorithms linking HEROS to a description of a mobile missile system, and I just got flagged for ordering these, because I live in the flight path for a major airport.  Cross-linking to emails in German, because I had them shipped from a proxy in Berlin, and I'm probably going to end up on the TSA No-Fly List before long.

It's not whether you're paranoid or not.  It's whether you're paranoid enough.

What I got out of that is that anyone who is Schizophrenic should probably isolate themselves from society.

are you sure schizophrenic is the word you're looking for?

Not at all.

[sth]

this is a symptom of a much larger problem, not the end result of an insidious government plot. nobody gives a **** about the weird porn you watch or all the stupid **** you buy on amazon or even if you checked in at a KFC in toledo via foursquare.
look privacy is tight and all but it bums me out so hard that THIS is the cause that nerds rally around.
not issues of widespread systemic oppression, international war crimes, commodity production in sub-par factories with little to no environmental regulations, the very notion that a corporation can own copyrights to genetic sequences of plants, massive inequities in standards of living, food production and waste, modern day child sex trafficking, slavery (it's still real dummies), and a million other things that all are tied to The Way Things Are.

as soon as it starts to affect the middle class, THEN the middle class starts talking about it. but if it has to do with marginalized groups of people, based on any metric, then it's just a tragedy that we chalk up to The Way Things Are and refill our 20oz frappucinos, get in our 20mpg ****mobiles and go to work to pay the mortgage on a house we never even spend time in because we're too busy out spending money on dumb ****.

nobody's really worried that there are still reservations in the US that have less than 50% phone hookup and way less than 10% internet access. i guess they're safe from surveillance, free to deal with issues of crippling poverty, substance abuse and more lovely issues that hundreds of years of genocidal imperialism have thrust upon them and that middle class people don't have to worry about. no, our internet browsing history and date/time logging of our phone calls is a WAY bigger thing to protect than, you know, living breathing people.

/rant... the NSA knows i don't pose a threat because i'm too busy smoking as much weed as possible to forget about how much the middle class in this country sucks.

[tp4tissue]

this is a symptom of a much larger problem, not the end result of an insidious government plot. nobody gives a **** about the weird porn you watch or all the stupid **** you buy on amazon or even if you checked in at a KFC in toledo via foursquare.
look privacy is tight and all but it bums me out so hard that THIS is the cause that nerds rally around.
not issues of widespread systemic oppression, international war crimes, commodity production in sub-par factories with little to no environmental regulations, the very notion that a corporation can own copyrights to genetic sequences of plants, massive inequities in standards of living, food production and waste, modern day child sex trafficking, slavery (it's still real dummies), and a million other things that all are tied to The Way Things Are.

as soon as it starts to affect the middle class, THEN the middle class starts talking about it. but if it has to do with marginalized groups of people, based on any metric, then it's just a tragedy that we chalk up to The Way Things Are and refill our 20oz frappucinos, get in our 20mpg ****mobiles and go to work to pay the mortgage on a house we never even spend time in because we're too busy out spending money on dumb ****.

nobody's really worried that there are still reservations in the US that have less than 50% phone hookup and way less than 10% internet access. i guess they're safe from surveillance, free to deal with issues of crippling poverty, substance abuse and more lovely issues that hundreds of years of genocidal imperialism have thrust upon them and that middle class people don't have to worry about. no, our internet browsing history and date/time logging of our phone calls is a WAY bigger thing to protect than, you know, living breathing people.

/rant... the NSA knows i don't pose a threat because i'm too busy smoking as much weed as possible to forget about how much the middle class in this country sucks.

sth... I care about those things...  But most people are not brave enough to talk about them " with me".

[SmallFry]

Even if the NSA had not said that they were doing this, what else do you think they'd be doing? Besides, there's enough people that unless you're looking at some very "flaggy" material they'd have no reason to look at your stuff. (IMHO)

[tp4tissue]

Even if the NSA had not said that they were doing this, what else do you think they'd be doing? Besides, there's enough people that unless you're looking at some very "flaggy" material they'd have no reason to look at your stuff. (IMHO)

this is exactly my point....  if you're not a child molester or a terrorist, your secrets are worthless to the NSA....

I think perhaps people are worried that if we let this go, someone would come along, buy the NSA and abuse it. 

But this is also moot, because so many people already actively share information on facebook, and it has been mostly inconsequential...

[CommunistWitchDr]

Even if the NSA had not said that they were doing this, what else do you think they'd be doing? Besides, there's enough people that unless you're looking at some very "flaggy" material they'd have no reason to look at your stuff. (IMHO)

this is exactly my point....  if you're not a child molester or a terrorist, your secrets are worthless to the NSA....

I think perhaps people are worried that if we let this go, someone would come along, buy the NSA and abuse it. 

But this is also moot, because so many people already actively share information on facebook, and it has been mostly inconsequential...

Not all people who will be labeled as terrorists have immoral motives.

[SmallFry]

True, but if the NSA wasn't monitoring actions what else would they be doing? Where else would they get the intelligence that they need? Darn near everything in the world today uses a computer, especially cross continent communication whether you are contacting family or you (or anyone) are contacting terrorist groups. The NSA is trying to monitor these communications to help, IMO.
But...back to my first question; If they weren't monitoring, what else would they do?

[tp4tissue]

True, but if the NSA wasn't monitoring actions what else would they be doing? Where else would they get the intelligence that they need? Darn near everything in the world today uses a computer, especially cross continent communication whether you are contacting family or you (or anyone) are contacting terrorist groups. The NSA is trying to monitor these communications to help, IMO.
But...back to my first question; If they weren't monitoring, what else would they do?

hahaha.. yea monitoring is definitely their bread and butter... they are more or less the same as the CIA which is a spy-agency.

[tp4tissue]

Even if the NSA had not said that they were doing this, what else do you think they'd be doing? Besides, there's enough people that unless you're looking at some very "flaggy" material they'd have no reason to look at your stuff. (IMHO)

this is exactly my point....  if you're not a child molester or a terrorist, your secrets are worthless to the NSA....

I think perhaps people are worried that if we let this go, someone would come along, buy the NSA and abuse it. 

But this is also moot, because so many people already actively share information on facebook, and it has been mostly inconsequential...

Not all people who will be labeled as terrorists have immoral motives.

yea i realize that... but i'm saying that's part of collateral damage if something does go awry and the overabundance of population well provisions for such mishaps...

guaranteeing individual rights is fine, but you must put the greater good first...

[sth]

[CommunistWitchDr]

True, but if the NSA wasn't monitoring actions what else would they be doing? Where else would they get the intelligence that they need? Darn near everything in the world today uses a computer, especially cross continent communication whether you are contacting family or you (or anyone) are contacting terrorist groups. The NSA is trying to monitor these communications to help, IMO.
But...back to my first question; If they weren't monitoring, what else would they do?

Not monitor them and not get the info, because they shouldn't have it. Many a man we consider heroes now were once branded as enemies of the state. A government should never have the power to put down such groups so early they never have a chance to gain momentum.

[SmallFry]

To each their own, I'm alright with it. Do I like my privacy? Yes, but I'd rather not repeat some of the disasters that this country has faced in the last 15 years or so now.

[tp4tissue]

that's sensationalism...   the real.... greater good is highly relevant.. and factors into MOST people's decisions, even unconsciously.

[noisyturtle]

True, but if the NSA wasn't monitoring actions what else would they be doing? Where else would they get the intelligence that they need? Darn near everything in the world today uses a computer, especially cross continent communication whether you are contacting family or you (or anyone) are contacting terrorist groups. The NSA is trying to monitor these communications to help, IMO.
But...back to my first question; If they weren't monitoring, what else would they do?

It's not so much the monitoring, it's the fact that it doesn't work. If all that privacy violation actually led to a more secure America then fine, but it's like the war on drugs or putting speed cameras up on dangerous sections of road, they give people peace of mind without actually doing a damn thing. PRISM disrupts the nations peace of mind, while still accomplishing nothing. Lose lose.

[sth]

To each their own, I'm alright with it. Do I like my privacy? Yes, but I'd rather not repeat some of the disasters that this country has faced in the last 15 years or so now.

hahahahahahaha "this country" has been directly or indirectly responsible for any non-natural homeland disaster you can name

[CommunistWitchDr]

The greatest good is the freedom of all mankind. A goal which will never be met as long as any man is inescapable caught under the power of any other man.

[tp4tissue]

True, but if the NSA wasn't monitoring actions what else would they be doing? Where else would they get the intelligence that they need? Darn near everything in the world today uses a computer, especially cross continent communication whether you are contacting family or you (or anyone) are contacting terrorist groups. The NSA is trying to monitor these communications to help, IMO.
But...back to my first question; If they weren't monitoring, what else would they do?

Not monitor them and not get the info, because they shouldn't have it. Many a man we consider heroes now were once branded as enemies of the state. A government should never have the power to put down such groups so early they never have a chance to gain momentum.

That's what we entrust the government with though...  even if it's not perfect it's the most efficient way to do it... we can't individually take up responsibilities like this because it would be too resource intensive, and run with significantly more overhead.

So, we have a group of people above common decency to spy on US, and the alleged terrorists...   

They're not out for a witch hunt, that is rare for a modern government...  but they may be out for scapegoats... hence the worry by some of abusive spying...

Then we go back to well, how many dead good people is acceptable.. because surely good people die anyway... how many can we lose... that is what social planning is about.. the acceptable losses...

[tp4tissue]

The greatest good is the freedom of all mankind. A goal which will never be met as long as any man is inescapable caught under the power of any other man.

there's no such thing as freedom of all mankind.. that is a silly notion.   we are all inter-related and have duty and responsibility towards each other, however small they may be on personal scales.

subjugation of men under one another is for organizational sake, this process can not be bypassed because we have limited capacity and resources for "making decisions" in allotted time frames..

[CommunistWitchDr]

True, but if the NSA wasn't monitoring actions what else would they be doing? Where else would they get the intelligence that they need? Darn near everything in the world today uses a computer, especially cross continent communication whether you are contacting family or you (or anyone) are contacting terrorist groups. The NSA is trying to monitor these communications to help, IMO.
But...back to my first question; If they weren't monitoring, what else would they do?

Not monitor them and not get the info, because they shouldn't have it. Many a man we consider heroes now were once branded as enemies of the state. A government should never have the power to put down such groups so early they never have a chance to gain momentum.

That's what we entrust the government with though...  even if it's not perfect it's the most efficient way to do it... we can't individually take up responsibilities like this because it would be too resource intensive, and run with significantly more overhead.

So, we have a group of people above common decency to spy on US, and the alleged terrorists...   

They're not out for a witch hunt, that is rare for a modern government...  but they may be out for scapegoats... hence the worry by some of abusive spying...

Then we go back to well, how many dead good people is acceptable.. because surely good people die anyway... how many can we lose... that is what social planning is about.. the acceptable losses...

Nobody spys on them. Not the government, not a collective of people, just nobody.

The greatest good is the freedom of all mankind. A goal which will never be met as long as any man is inescapable caught under the power of any other man.

there's no such thing as freedom of all mankind.. that is a silly notion.   we are all inter-related and have duty and responsibility towards each other, however small they may be on personal scales.

subjugation of men under one another is for organizational sake, this process can not be bypassed because we have limited capacity and resources for "making decisions" in allotted time frames..

Technology is fast approaching a point at which most of what is necessary can be provided through automation. The capacity of resource manufacturing and decision making grows larger over time. In only a few short decades, it may be possible that for the first time in history equality can be had through technology as opposed to having everybody produce their own goods.

[noisyturtle]

True, but if the NSA wasn't monitoring actions what else would they be doing? Where else would they get the intelligence that they need? Darn near everything in the world today uses a computer, especially cross continent communication whether you are contacting family or you (or anyone) are contacting terrorist groups. The NSA is trying to monitor these communications to help, IMO.
But...back to my first question; If they weren't monitoring, what else would they do?

Not monitor them and not get the info, because they shouldn't have it. Many a man we consider heroes now were once branded as enemies of the state. A government should never have the power to put down such groups so early they never have a chance to gain momentum.

That's what we entrust the government with though...  even if it's not perfect it's the most efficient way to do it... we can't individually take up responsibilities like this because it would be too resource intensive, and run with significantly more overhead.

So, we have a group of people above common decency to spy on US, and the alleged terrorists...   

They're not out for a witch hunt, that is rare for a modern government...  but they may be out for scapegoats... hence the worry by some of abusive spying...

Then we go back to well, how many dead good people is acceptable.. because surely good people die anyway... how many can we lose... that is what social planning is about.. the acceptable losses...

The government is fully prepared to go on which hunts though, and they do make a nice show for any would be terrorists on American soil. The Boston bombing a few months ago is a perfect example. They shut down almost the entire city and surrounding areas. My 72 year old mother had armed troops come through her house and although it was a tense situation for her, I surprised that she didn't feel violated at the same time. Situations calling for extreme measures breed a sense of solidarity, but having it be a constant Orwellian invasive nightmare is the wrong approach. There is a time and place for such tactics, but treating everyone as a would be suspect all the time is shameful and as I stated before, constant suspecion has been proven time and again not to work.

[SmallFry]

(Since this browser doesn't like to quote for some reason)
Sth, everything is all interrelated, I agree. The United States, being "this country", has faced some disasters that nobody would like to repeat, such as 9/11 and the Boston Marathon bombings to name two large media covered events. However the United States is interrelated in these tragedies, is not what the NSA has the intention of doing think that the NSA is trying to do the best that it can to protect the U.S. from threats both domestic and abroad by monitoring the citizens of the U.S.