Neo layout

[xmagusx]

Hey all, with the Ergodox round III about to ship, I've been investigating alternate layouts and wanted to know if anyone had tried (with or without success) the Neo layout.

Other points of curiosity:
Malt(ron) users, how does having the E key mapped to a thumb work for you?

Colemak users who have thumb cluster boards -- what do you have mapped to those keys?

Thanks!

[davkol]

I'm aware of only one Neo user at Deskthority.

[suka]

Used it shortly when investigating alternative layouts, but quickly switched to the much superior (imho) AdNW layout I described at DT.

[jalitt]

I love the Maltron layout.  I am a programmer by trade so I type quite a bit, and I use Maltron as my primary layout.  At home I type on Dvorak(though this will change as soon as I put the money together for another Maltron 3D).

Maltron is superior in a number of places to Dvorak.  The hand alternation is better, as important vowels are broken up on the home rows of both the left and right hand.  Period and comma are bumped from the top row.

With Maltron layout, nearly all of the typing is on the home row and the top row, it is really just about as close to a general optimal layout as could ever be created for the English language.  I am sure individuals could customize a layout to be a percent or two more optimal for them, but they would just be splitting hairs.

The best part though is the E on the thumb.  I cannot say enough how awesome this is, and I imagine with the proliferation of split keyboards this optimization will start to appear all over the place.

[xmagusx]

I'm aware of only one Neo user at Deskthority.

Who?

Used it shortly when investigating alternative layouts, but quickly switched to the much superior (imho) AdNW layout I described at DT.

Could you please link to that thread so that I could check it out please?

I love the Maltron layout.  I am a programmer by trade so I type quite a bit, and I use Maltron as my primary layout.  At home I type on Dvorak(though this will change as soon as I put the money together for another Maltron 3D).

Maltron is superior in a number of places to Dvorak.  The hand alternation is better, as important vowels are broken up on the home rows of both the left and right hand.  Period and comma are bumped from the top row.

With Maltron layout, nearly all of the typing is on the home row and the top row, it is really just about as close to a general optimal layout as could ever be created for the English language.  I am sure individuals could customize a layout to be a percent or two more optimal for them, but they would just be splitting hairs.

The best part though is the E on the thumb.  I cannot say enough how awesome this is, and I imagine with the proliferation of split keyboards this optimization will start to appear all over the place.

Thanks for the feedback, Malt has been a stong contender throughout. Plus the right hand home row being "THOR" is just cool. How much do you value the 3D aspect of that board?

[CommunistWitchDr]

Colemak users who have thumb cluster boards -- what do you have mapped to those keys?

Thanks!

As for the larger buttons, space and delete on one hand, backspace and enter on the other.

My capslock location is escape.


I would like to look into layouts optimized for split boards though. Like those carPlax Q*MLW* layouts, but with matrix and thumbs in mind. Sad thing is I would have to write my own vim binds though, where colemak already has binds available.

[davkol]

I'm aware of only one Neo user at Deskthority.

Who?

I can't remember, but quick search should tell you something. That layout has been mentioned in some recent thread there.

Colemak users who have thumb cluster boards -- what do you have mapped to those keys?

Thanks!

I haven't decided on final layout yet, but I need AltGr there. On both sides.

[jalitt]

xmagusx,

The 3D layout is amazing.  I have tried the Kinesis advantage, and to be honest its pretty obvious they completely ripped off the Maltron 3D keyboard without fully understanding it.

The keys on the Maltron keyboard are a bit more angled towards the typists fingers, and the net effect is less wrist pronation.  Having typed on both, I think it is pretty obvious Lilian Malt designed a keyboard very carefully to help with RSI of both the wrist and fingers, Kinesis saw an opportunity to cash in on Malt's innovative design by ripping it off and mass manufacturing it.

Maltron keyboards are hand wired in a small shop in England.  Yes, they cost more, but I sleep easy at night knowing I am supporting a company with integrity.  They are also very pleasant to deal with from a support perspective.

If Datahand ever gets their act together, I will end up switching, or if someone decides to make a Datahand clone I might consider it, but for touch typists suffering from RSI, there is currently no better general solution than the Maltron 3D keyboard(make sure to ask for brown keyswitches if you order one, I LIKE my Maltron with blacks but my next one will definitely have browns).

[davkol]

Ummm, wasn't Kinesis originally manufacturer of some Maltron keyboards?

[xmagusx]

Ummm, wasn't Kinesis originally manufacturer of some Maltron keyboards?

My understanding is that Kinesis negotiated with Maltron to produce keyboards in the US, but never signed the contract. In the negotiation process, Kinesis got a great deal of Maltron internal ergonomic and technical information, and then released a design that was just enough different to skirt the existing patent laws -- hence the big blank spot on a Kinesis board where the numeric keypad fits perfectly on a Maltron board.

As for the larger buttons, space and delete on one hand, backspace and enter on the other.

My capslock location is escape.


I would like to look into layouts optimized for split boards though. Like those carPlax Q*MLW* layouts, but with matrix and thumbs in mind. Sad thing is I would have to write my own vim binds though, where colemak already has binds available.

How long did it take you to adjust to the new layout? I'll be using a QWERTY board at work for the foreseeable future, so I definitely won't be able to go "cold turkey", but that's fine with me as I'm not so much interested in switching layouts as learning a new one.

Also, do you teach at or attend UMR (escapee here)?

[tp4tissue]

exotic layouts are not worth learning.

Because you will not exceed 70wpm with daily use.

It is also highly questionable if they're at all  M0Ar ergonomic, because this is completely reliant on the CONTENT that you type..

There is no sure say that w/e layout you want to break into will suit the Material that you type.

The time for transition is really not worth it.

[domoaligato]

what do you think about workman?
http://www.workmanlayout.com/blog/

[suka]

Used it shortly when investigating alternative layouts, but quickly switched to the much superior (imho) AdNW layout I described at DT.

Could you please link to that thread so that I could check it out please?

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=40649.msg809702#msg809702
http://deskthority.net/post100513.html
http://deskthority.net/post54408.html

Or just search for AdNW on GH/DT, there are not many more hits :-)

[davkol]

exotic layouts are not worth learning.

Because you will not exceed 70wpm with daily use.

It is also highly questionable if they're at all  M0Ar ergonomic, because this is completely reliant on the CONTENT that you type..

There is no sure say that w/e layout you want to break into will suit the Material that you type.

The time for transition is really not worth it.

The primary benefit is not speed, but comfort. However, even if I consider speed, the switch has paid of in less than two years (probably less, it's just a rough estimate). Your claim about 70 wpm is more or less irrelevant. My experience is that 60 wpm is more than enough to take notes in LaTeX during math lectures... and on the other hand, as deadlines approach, 200 wpm wouldn't suffice.

[xmagusx]

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=40649.msg809702#msg809702
http://deskthority.net/post100513.html
http://deskthority.net/post54408.html

Or just search for AdNW on GH/DT, there are not many more hits :-)

Thanks!

The primary benefit is not speed, but comfort. However, even if I consider speed, the switch has paid of in less than two years (probably less, it's just a rough estimate). Your claim about 70 wpm is more or less irrelevant. My experience is that 60 wpm is more than enough to take notes in LaTeX during math lectures... and on the other hand, as deadlines approach, 200 wpm wouldn't suffice.

Pretty much exactly this. I spend most of my day working with computers, so having an interface that is comfortable trumps just about everything else. 90 wpm doesn't mean spit if in a decade I have to put my hands under the knife to fix the damage that the aforementioned caused.

[Icarium]

I'm also using neo and it's pretty good. Do you have specific questions?

[xmagusx]

Primarily just your impressions of it vs any other non-qwerty layouts that you've used, as well as what your primary language is, since the layout seems to be focused on German (a language I am learning but not yet using very frequently), but well layed enough to be a marked improvement for English as well.